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heretics bane
14-10-2006, 23:02
hi, i was reading throught wikipedeas artacle about the eldar harlaquiens when i cam across this...

"In the recent 13th Crusade of Abbadon, the Chaos Sorcerer Ahriman of the Thousand Sons managed to enter the Black Library, but was stopped by a combined force of Eldar and Harlequins"

what did Ahriman want in the black library, did he want to destroy it or something else?? and what inquisitors where allowed in?

A neutral shade of black.
14-10-2006, 23:12
what did Ahriman want in the black library, did he want to destroy it or something else?? and what inquisitors where allowed in?

The Black Library contains the sum of all knowledge ever devised by every race that ever existed. It is, for someone like Ahriman who has the wits to understand what's in there, the surest way to omnipotence and the godhood he desires to obtain. In other words, very few can be allowed to enter - much like no one can know both the question and the answer to Life, the Universe and Everything.

I'm afraid I can't remember the name of the inquisitor who was allowed in, however.

Norminator
14-10-2006, 23:26
Wasn't said Inquistor found insane afterwards, corrupted by the amount of knowledge in the library and driven mad by it?

I am the Monkey King
15-10-2006, 00:30
Czevak, and no I don't think he went mad.

Romanus
15-10-2006, 01:23
Think he's still missing after being captured by ahriman and then rescued by the eldar. The only human to have vivited the lack library and live to tell the tale. This is all in the eye of terror sup.

Cheers, Rom

Kandarin
15-10-2006, 03:38
Weren't the Illuminati allowed in too?

Reflex
15-10-2006, 05:47
no i dont belive they were or did go in.

i thought that the eldar killed Czevak because they didnt want him to tell the imperium the weakness of the eldar or something, about them trying stop slaanesh and so on... the reason why they wear way stones and such.

but knowing me my fluff is all mixed up.

but what i am sure of is that ahriman did see it but i am sure he did not enter, as he was stopped by the harlis.. go the harlies, they are a sick troup...

salty
15-10-2006, 06:57
I seem to recall that "only the Eldar Harlequins and the human Illuminati may come and go at will" with regards to the Black Library. Of course, this may be very old fluff.

The Black Library is also home to everything the Eldar have learned about the Gods of Chaos. Naturally, Ahriman wanted to get his grubby little hands on these, being a follower of Tzeentch, and taking into consideration the lust for knowledge of the Thousand Sons (well, except the ones now turned to dust inside their armour...)

And yes again, I believe Czevak is still missing.

Salty :)

CommanderCax
15-10-2006, 07:52
I seem to recall that "only the Eldar Harlequins and the human Illuminati may come and go at will" with regards to the Black Library. Of course, this may be very old fluff.

It is indeed stated in the old Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness, that the Human Illuminati and the Solitaires of the Eldar Harlequins are the only two groups coming and going at will, as they were considered uncorruptable by Chaos.

salty
15-10-2006, 08:14
Ah good, I'm not going mad then ;)

But as I said, I'm not sure whether GW rewrote this out of the current fluff or not.

Salty :)

Gorbad Ironclaw
15-10-2006, 09:11
It's not the sum total of all knowledge. It's the sum total of all the eldars knowledge about chaos, and many other subjects. But it's not every races entire knowledge thats in there. It's still an eldar thing.

Voronwe[MQ]
15-10-2006, 09:38
So it's the sum total of the Eldar's knowledge about Chaos, metaphysical facts and observations concerning the warp, technology, history, engineering etc.

Easy E
15-10-2006, 09:43
It appears that the Illuminati no longer offically exist in 40K, per a small bit of fluff in in WD(and on the Web) around the time of the Daemonhunters Codexd that wrote them off as a Tzeentch plot.

Sad really.

I also did not think that Ahriman's assault on the Black Library succeeded, so he has to try again. Czevak is still missing.

Lastly, I thought the Black Library contained more than just the Eldar information on the Warp/Chaos. However, it is not the sole repository of all Chaos/Warp knowledge.

Voronwe[MQ]
15-10-2006, 09:48
Certainly not. Wasn't inquisitor Jac Draqo allowed to enter and stole the Book of Rhana-dandra?

heretics bane
15-10-2006, 11:04
could the Emporer go into the black libary since he is incourrouptable by chaos or could his "soul" also get in?

Tyron
15-10-2006, 11:36
I think he has, which would explain his webway and he knows so much about Chaos.

Kage2020
15-10-2006, 12:47
It appears that the Illuminati no longer offically exist in 40K, per a small bit of fluff in in WD(and on the Web) around the time of the Daemonhunters Codexd that wrote them off as a Tzeentch plot.

Sad really.
Indeed, and not even remotely conclusive because of the possibility of the Tzeentchian plot.


Lastly, I thought the Black Library contained more than just the Eldar information on the Warp/Chaos. However, it is not the sole repository of all Chaos/Warp knowledge.
Not originally, but you know how GW tends to work with these things.

Kage

Voronwe[MQ]
15-10-2006, 13:39
Although I have to believe that GW wants to go away from the Illuminati for Illyad/Hollywood-esque reasons beyond my horizon, I will still view the Tzeentchian plot merely as a suspicious, distrustful and intolerant view by the Ordo Malleus of Illuminati.

ArtificerArmour
15-10-2006, 19:00
Illuminati are a tzeetch cult, therefore have been corrupted.

Therefore they cannot enter the library. Seems conclusive and hand wavey.

Kage2020
15-10-2006, 20:29
The Illuminati cannot be corrupted, except through choice. That some of them might have been involved with Chaos, i.e. the equivalent to "Grey Sensei" (e.g. "Grey Illuminati"), I believe that the 'fluff' is that much lesser without their presence. Therefore I keep them. If someone could come up with even a remotely plausible or interesting possibility as to why keeping them out would be more interesting, I'm all ears... :D

Kage

Commander Ozae
15-10-2006, 23:23
GW doesn't seem to want to present any hope for the future of the galaxy so they're taking out all the references to Y'nnead, the Star child, Sensei, and Illuminati. It's up to us to keep this info alive.

Dais
16-10-2006, 02:18
what exactly is the prerequisite to be allowed in? cause if its just being uncorruptable by chaos whats keeping the nightbringer from strolling on in?

Kandarin
16-10-2006, 02:49
what exactly is the prerequisite to be allowed in? cause if its just being uncorruptable by chaos whats keeping the nightbringer from strolling on in?

It's Eldar-run. Presumably some degree of admiration (or at least acceptance) toward the Eldar is a prerequisite.

Lothlanathorian
16-10-2006, 06:26
And the Black Librabry is inside the Warp. So, good ol' NB couldn't if he wanted to.

RampagingRavener
16-10-2006, 07:36
Wait, no, it's inside the Webway. Diffrent thing from the Warp completely.

Commissar Rowe
16-10-2006, 07:54
I hope this isn't a faux-pas cut&pasting text blocks but here you are...


From the Fluff Bible
The Black Library of the Eldar
Much of the Eldar's ancient knowledge and culture was lost during the flight from Chaos. The craft-worlds became the sole repository of Eldar wisdom, and this fragmented as the Eldar nations drifted apart. Craft-worlds were lost over the millenia, and knowledge vanished with them.
A single source of Eldar knowledge has remained untouched and inviolate since the Fall. Aboard a dark craft-world, far beyond the boundaries of the Imperium, is the Black Library of Chaos. Here are the collected tomes, books and codices describing the Eldar studies of the warp. The forbidden lore of the Black Library describes the blandishments, influences, forms, creatures, perils, promises and horrors of Chaos. Enclosed within a nearly impenetrable psychic barrier, the Black Library is watched and maintained by its Guardian-Scribes; they collate and transcribe the knowledge of the Library, a task that they have carried out since the Fall of the Eldar. They also maintain a hawk-like watch over their charges, the books; dreadful repositries of secret powers and must be monitered at all times.
The existence of the Library is known to only a few, and entry is allowed to even fewer individuals. The library's 'mind' defends itself from the weak who would misuse its knowledge by refusing entry to all except those who have acknowledged and tempered the Chaos within themselves. The immature, who are still vulnerable to the promises and seductions of Chaos, find that they are unable to pass through its gateway. As a resultfew have seen within the Library or read any of its books. Only two groups come and go at will: The Human Illuminati and the Solitaires of the Eldar Harlequins. The Guardian-scribes rarely leave once they have entered.
(From Codex: Eldar 2nd ed)

Commissar Rowe
16-10-2006, 07:57
Various quotes from Inquisitor Czevak

Against the Great Enemy the Eldar have no hope of victory. They hang on to existence, yet their grip upon the universe is slipping, their hold becomes more precarious with every passing year.
- Inquisitor Czevak Discussing with Lord Kryptman

You are not free whose liberty is won by the rigour of other, more righteous souls. Your are merely protected. Your freedom is parasitic, you suck the honourable man dry and offer nothing in return. You who have enjoyed freedom, who have done nothing to earn it, your time has come. This time you will stand alone and fight for yourselves. Now you will pay for your freedom in the currency of honest toil and human blood.
- Inquisitor Czevak Address to the Council of Ryanti

Though I have seen within the Black Library and spoken to its most terrible guardian, I can never reveal what happened there; not to any man nor even the Emperor himself for I am so forsworn to powers beyond your knowledge. I can only say that a time of inconveivable horror is about to begin. A time when mankind will all the might of the Imperium cannot endure when the strength of the Eldar fails. Even now, our doom stalks us across the stars.
- Inquisitor Czevak At the Conclave of Har

There is a terrible darkness decending upon the galaxy, and we shall not see it ended in our lifetimes.
- Inquisitor Czevak At the Conclave of Har

Voronwe[MQ]
16-10-2006, 15:08
GW doesn't seem to want to present any hope for the future of the galaxy so they're taking out all the references to Y'nnead, the Star child, Sensei, and Illuminati. It's up to us to keep this info alive.

No hope does not mean lesser diversity and depth to the setting, so GW should shrugg their new idiotic ideas off and reapply Y'nnead, the Star Child, Sensei and Illuminati. Preferably they have already done so in Codex: Eldar, as we all know that GW is fast to perceive hints about common reactions. *Voronwe wipes sarcasm from his mouth*

Commander Ozae
16-10-2006, 18:09
Sadly it is true. I get the feeling that GW will not bring back the old fluff to bring hope because like it says "an age of darkness is about to descend" or something like that.

Voronwe[MQ]
16-10-2006, 18:38
And yet a glint of hope in the swirling darkness just makes it all appear even more darker due to contrast, as things could be better (but, as things tend to be, it takes a hell of a time to get better, and considering 40k's state...>), but they will not be in a looong time.

Commander Ozae
16-10-2006, 21:53
Hope is the one thing no one has yet figured out how to kill.

Norminator
16-10-2006, 21:56
Give the Imperium a couple of years and they will.

Kage2020
16-10-2006, 23:48
I don't know. GW is doing a fairly good job of it! :P

Kage

Lothlanathorian
17-10-2006, 07:43
Hope is the one thing no one has yet figured out how to kill.


Give the Imperium a couple of years and they will.


I don't know. GW is doing a fairly good job of it! :P

Kage

And I quote: 'Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment'. Most definitely my favourite 40K Thought for the Day.:evilgrin:

Voronwe[MQ]
17-10-2006, 10:43
In fact GW creates common hope that they will re-become better; it has happened before after a valley.