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View Full Version : Pope to die within the next 12 hours.



DaViEsW
01-04-2005, 17:03
John Paul II is seemingly slipping away right now. Certain areas of the Italian media has reported he's gone, but it seems very unlikely he'll live through tonight.

RIP.

Melchor
01-04-2005, 19:58
Well it is about time... Have you seen the poor guy!
May he rest in peace soon! (finally)

Compyraptor
01-04-2005, 20:55
Rest in peace Pope John Paul II. You will be missed.

inquisitorautry
01-04-2005, 22:18
I'm sure he will soon be in a better place.

Crazy Harborc
01-04-2005, 23:19
Soon, he will join the gone but remembered. May he know peace and eternal bliss.

Lord Lucifer
02-04-2005, 00:00
TempPortent's first Famous Dead Thread, and none more fitting or more famous.


We can all respect a man of conviction
Rest in Peace, John Paul II

Xhalax
02-04-2005, 00:01
He deserves this rest after everything he's done.

Adept
02-04-2005, 01:50
He deserves this rest after everything he's done.

Yeah, like telling the african nations that condoms were bad. Well done popey.

Brimstone
02-04-2005, 02:28
Yeah, like telling the african nations that condoms were bad. Well done popey.

While I agree with you, lets keep the tone respectful please this is not P&R

Lord Lucifer
02-04-2005, 03:39
Exactly, everyone at some point does something you disagree with.

They still deserve a bit of respect at their passing.


Just because I may not personally share the exact same beliefs as the Pope, I can respect that he devoted his life to his beliefs, out of a sense of charity and good will.

Shuya
02-04-2005, 03:48
I Will be sorry to hear him go,
though im not the devoutest cristian i do feel bad as this man gave up so mutch for his beliefs and he deserves a place wherever hes going,
I feel bad as im going out to a party in a while till the 3rd, even if he dies whilst im at home watching the TV ill still feel really bummed

Adept
02-04-2005, 04:11
Exactly, everyone at some point does something you disagree with.

Yeppers


They still deserve a bit of respect at their passing.

I disagree with that, personally. If I have no respect for a person in life, I will not change my opinion of them simply because they are dead.

However, out of respect to the nice people of Portent, I shall hold my tongue as far as my opinions of the pope, the catholic church, and organised religion as a whole are concerned.

Brother_McBeaner
02-04-2005, 04:16
I guess I can respect him for devoting his life to his faith, and i kind of have to pay respect to him due to my Irishness.

On a side note, I think it'll be good having a youthful pope, what do people say?

Sojourner
02-04-2005, 06:35
Unlikely - I would imagine most cardinals who are even remotely likely to be chosen are also getting on a bit.

Rest in peace, John Paul II.

Hideous Loon
02-04-2005, 07:14
Agree with Sojourner. Only Cardinals can be chosen as the new Pope, and almost all of them are over 80 years of age. So a 'youthful' Pope would be one who is about 60...

Very well. He will be at a better place soon, where no disease and no elderlyness exist...

Sojourner
02-04-2005, 07:30
Here's a funny thing - why the hysteria about praying for him so intensely? He of all people surely needs no helping hands in that regard, and surely praying for his life is basically asking God to break the rules?

Someone explain?

Cheesejoff
02-04-2005, 09:45
Here's a funny thing - why the hysteria about praying for him so intensely? He of all people surely needs no helping hands in that regard, and surely praying for his life is basically asking God to break the rules?

Someone explain?

Um...read that sentence again to yourself. Slowly. Thank you.

Samoth
02-04-2005, 10:12
I just dont like when people call the pope uncompromising and old fashioned. It shocks me that people alive during the era still dont know he was one of the most revolutionary pope's - ever.

While he might not bless the use of condoms - previous popes were a lot worse. Not trying to start a debate - just offering a different view.

Sojourner
02-04-2005, 10:30
Um...read that sentence again to yourself. Slowly. Thank you.

If you have a point, I'm not seeing it. Prayer means nothing to me.

Though perhaps if I'm asking 'why pray for the dying?' I might as well ask 'why pray?'

Xhalax
02-04-2005, 16:34
Yeah, like telling the african nations that condoms were bad. Well done popey.

I never said in what sense.
But still.....he's been been alive for a pretty fair innings and although I'm not religious in the slightest, I'm sure he's done quite a lot of good things in some respects.
I always felt that the people behind the scenes were just keeping him alive for whatever reason, but I guess he gets the lost say in whether or not he wants to continue.
And whatevver your own personal thoughts and feelings are on the matter....they'll still be a vast amount of people who'll miss him.

Arnizipal
02-04-2005, 16:46
I disagree with that, personally. If I have no respect for a person in life, I will not change my opinion of them simply because they are dead.
To quote Homer Simpson, "Do not mock the dead boy, they have eerie powers"


@Sojourner: When John-Paul II was elected he was a 'young' pope as he was only in his late fifties. I don't think the new pope will be this young though, as many people felt John-Paul II ruled too long because he was elected at such a 'young' age. Changing the leadership every 10-15 years is good for the flexibility of a religion, or so I am told.

People at first were praying for the pope to get better. This is not 'breaking the rules' as changing the inevitable is often what praying is all about.
Currently most people have accepted the pope will die, and are praying that his last hours are not spent in suffering.

Piku
02-04-2005, 18:29
My BBC ticker just told me he slipped off a short while ago.
Tata.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4399715.stm

macbeth
02-04-2005, 18:33
Here we are. The Pope has just died... at 8.37 pm GMT

Cheesejoff
02-04-2005, 18:41
Here's a funny thing - why the hysteria about praying for him so intensely? He of all people surely needs no helping hands in that regard, and surely praying for his life is basically asking God to break the rules?

Someone explain?

Well...Praying to keep someone alive is not quite breaking the rules. I'm pretty sure there was some bible guy who prayed for someone who was sick, and they got better (I'm not saying it was God who did it though) But basically, I don't believe that God does anything, if he did, why doesn't he just make the world right? Because, the purpose of life, according to the bible, is that we have the choice between good and evil, and we have to choose it ourselves. If God did things for us, there would be no point in him creating life in the first place. This is a fact many Christians fail to grasp.

Brother_McBeaner
02-04-2005, 18:43
*Lacrymosa plays in the background*

Baggers
02-04-2005, 19:36
Chesejoff there are several instances done by the Lord Jesus Christ and the disciples were they prayed to God, and the person was healed or in the case of Lazarus and Jarius daughter resserected. So there is nothing wrong with praying for someone to get better.

Xhalax
02-04-2005, 20:12
Well its immaterial now as he is now dead.
Personally, they should have let him die peacefully a few days ago instead of keeping him alive.

Cheesejoff
03-04-2005, 10:35
Chesejoff there are several instances done by the Lord Jesus Christ and the disciples were they prayed to God, and the person was healed or in the case of Lazarus and Jarius daughter resserected. So there is nothing wrong with praying for someone to get better.

I didn't say there was anything wrong with praying for someone to get better. I was just saying that if God actually answered them there would be little point in life.

salty
03-04-2005, 12:54
While I am not a Christian, or even religious myself, the death of someone like the Pope is still something to be respected.

Salty :)

Arnizipal
03-04-2005, 13:26
I didn't say there was anything wrong with praying for someone to get better. I was just saying that if God actually answered them there would be little point in life.
Christians believe that if you ask (pray) enough, eventually God will answer your prayer.

But this thread is getting quite off topic.

DaViEsW
03-04-2005, 23:33
Before I say anything about the subject matter, I have much respect for the Holy Father and his role as the leader of Roman Catholics worldwide.

Since Pope John Paul, II has passed away, a new pope must be chosen by the Vatican. That much is obvious. The question is: Has the pope's reign raised the expectations of the next in line?

I would think so. First of all, the pope, who started from humble beginnings in Poland, traveled to more countries than any other prior pope. Pope John Paul, II was the first to visit the White House, a synagogue, and Cuba. He rarely let anything get in the way of his travels. Even an attempted assasination didn't stop him. On top of that, the pope was also a key participant of the downfall of Communism. He was definitely a people's pope.

These are all great contributions to humanity, but Pope John Paul, II also was a staunch conservative. He stuck to traditional Catholic views on abortion, homosexuality, and the roles of women in the church. His stances on these issues alienated some liberal Catholics. As one man put it, "He was what you might call a revolutionary conservative."

Considering all that Pope John Paul, II has left quite a reputation for the next pope to live up to.

Rik Valdis
05-04-2005, 11:02
While as a rather middle of the road anglican I disagree with the lat holy father on many points (contraception and women priests for a start) I have the greatest respect for his unstinting devotion to his faith and the great work he did helping to bring about the end of communism (Lech Walesa said without him it would have taken many more years and a lot of bloodshed-if it happened at all). His commitment to ecumenism and inter-faith dialogue meant that he was the first pope to meet large number of important leaders of other denominations and faiths.

On his opposition to contraception, I have never really understood what difference AIDS makes to the morality of condoms, the catholic church teaches that the purpose of sex is to reproduce within a monogamous marriage, if these teachings were followed then the African AIDS epidemic would not exist. Morality should not change because of popularity or circumstances and if the Holy Father believed that contraception was wrong he should in my opinion be praised for standing by what he thought to be the truth.

Ozorik
05-04-2005, 11:30
if the Holy Father believed that contraception was wrong he should in my opinion be praised for standing by what he thought to be the truth.

No he shouldnt. No matter what he personally belived unprotected sex has lead to millions of people contracting HIV. Attempying to disuade people from using condoms for no good reason is folly and extremely dangeous.

Morality is one thing, preventing a huge percentage of the worlds population from contracting an invariably fatal and incurable disease is another. Not that the pope could of course but none the less his stance has made the safe sex message harder to get across.

Rik Valdis
05-04-2005, 11:35
However his message is dont have promiscuous sex with people and that sex is meant for procreation in a loving marriage, if his message had been followed then there would the AIDS epidemic would not be the massive problem that it is today.

Sojourner
05-04-2005, 11:53
Regarding AIDS, it's getting to the point that a significant proportion of children are born with it. Add to this the effect of unsanitary conditions - despite what we're told about HIV transmission, the possibility of picking it up from other sources exists - even monogamous relationships or abstinence are becoming less and less of a defence.

Ozorik
05-04-2005, 12:07
Of course there are other routes of infection but as all of them require transer of bodily fluid unprotected sex is the most common one.

Promiscuity is always going to be there simply telling people to only have sex within marrage isnt going to work but in its self is harmless. Combining this message with instrcutions to basically make more catholics is IMO morally dubious.

Hmm this is turing into P&R, oh dear.

Darius Rhiannon
05-04-2005, 12:37
Well, I live in South Africa. Aids hotspot of the World.

Basically, if you treat everybodies else's bodies as being blessed by nurgle and avoid their fluids you will be fine.

Also in South Africa, which IIRC is one of the countries most affected by aids, the majority of the population, when they are christian are protestant. So whatever the pope may have to say about condoms, most people here would not have listened in any case. He could have condemmed or praised them and it would have made 00.1% difference.

Personally I find Catholicisms views on Contraception more dangerous. Aids killing people is not likely to lead to the exhaustion of the means required for survival. Over-population will.

Lord Lucifer
05-04-2005, 12:37
*note to self: Lobby for return of P&R forum*

Delicious Soy
05-04-2005, 12:51
I wonder if the church has the daring to elect the first black pope since the fifth century. Especially considering 70% of Catholics are from the Global South.

Piku
05-04-2005, 13:07
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/201729.stm#tettamanzi
These are the Cardinals being discussed in the Vatican Big Brother nominations.
Cardinal Francis Arinze is a contender from Nigeria but Latin American countries have advantage in numbers of faithfull. (not that they are voting but y'know...)


Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger heads the Vatican department once known as the Holy Inquisition, and his views could be very influential. A theologian from Germany, his job has earned him the nickname of "the Pope's enforcer" and he has been accused of trying to silence church dissidents.
EEEK!!

Kohhna
05-04-2005, 13:21
However his message is dont have promiscuous sex with people and that sex is meant for procreation in a loving marriage, if his message had been followed then there would the AIDS epidemic would not be the massive problem that it is today.

Thats a nice idea but it is completely at odds with human nature and the whole of the human historical experience since the beginning of time!

When more people have followed the rules laid down by the church to any major degree, e.g. Ireland after the trauma of the Great Famine of 1845-50 what happened was huge rates of emigration and a major increase in Alcoholism (and related diseases) and Schitzophrenia.

Anyway, if the church wants to retain any credibility and move into the 21st century with the rest of us there is only one man for the job, Bishop Pat Buckley (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_200207/ai_n12845212) .

Delicious Soy
05-04-2005, 13:48
EEEK!!I've read about Ratzinger before, not the most progressive of Cardinals. I think he would dearly love for Inqusition to have the power it once had.

Piku
05-04-2005, 15:55
That was the first I had heard of him.
I can't tell if this is genuine or not.
http://ratzingerfanclub.com/