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Jeru
30-06-2005, 04:08
Any news on when/if this army will be coming out in the next few years. I left WHF a long time ago (2nd edition) and my 10k high elf army just collects dust. This army is the only one to recent date that might draw me back into the Fantasy game. Look forward to hearing any juicy gossip.

PARTYCHICORITA
30-06-2005, 04:30
the last thing i heard(and it was a while ago) was that there were no plans at all for cathay and if they did explore the possibility it would be in a brand new game, not WHFB. Kind of weird uh?

Jeru
30-06-2005, 04:47
odd. I hope they dont put them in something retarded like Warmaster.

gorenut
30-06-2005, 06:07
I doubt it'll come out with a new army any time soon. However, I wouldn't mind them coming out with Cathay and Nippon DOW units.

I took matters into my own hands. I always wanted an "oriental" themed army so I basically used the DE list and started on it. Warriors = Qin Xbows, Executioners = Samurais, Assassins = Ninjas, CO Knights = Kirin Knights, Dark Riders = Mongol horse archers.. I've even added some Ogres in my army because they already have an "oriental" look to them.

Son of Morkai
30-06-2005, 06:32
Perhaps GW plans to introduce Cathay through WFRP. One of the rulebooks for it has a lot of nifty trivia about Cathay and Ind (a neighboring country).

Jeru
30-06-2005, 06:36
some of the new OK ninja models would fit nicely.

I always thought a samurai army would look nice, especially with some rare choices of like Oni or something. Make them sorta like Ushabti from Tomb Kings (that size and obviously with an Oriental feel). As anyone who knows about Japanese lore, Oni would no doubt lead to some fabulous modelling as they can look like almost anything.

Of course mounted archers, and footmen samurai would be in the mix as well. Ninja skirmishers. Now im gonna be thinking up a whole list. ;)

Firmitas
30-06-2005, 08:23
Id love to see Cathay, Nippon and Ind on WHFB the only problem is having them fight Old World armies. GW are quite heavy on their fluff, making everything tie in together and such, so how could they justify having a Nippon army fighting Bretonnians? I know that having Lizardmen battling Brets is stretching things a little too, but cathay or Nippon? Its too far. Thats why DoW or RoR are, at least in my mind, much more likely. Bring on the Celestial Dragon monks I say!

Alman
30-06-2005, 08:36
Celestial Dragon Monks!

After reading the various descriptions of them in the army books and their bit in OK. I WANT THEM.

"Walking on water, and breathing fire"

On a real world note, I love the whole mystery surounding the Shalin Monks, and the CDM are WHFB's equivalent.

feintstar
30-06-2005, 08:45
They could introduce cathay and Nippon slowly, in a kind of Mordheim first kind of manner.

The other thing you notice is that the new army releases are slowly moving east: Soon after Ogre Kingdoms has to be the Chaos Dwarves (Engineers of Chaos) and once they've got to central Asia, south asia and far east asia are only a step away.

There is a way they can get over the geographical divide: make them expansionist.

In the late 14th/15th(?) century, a mighty fleet left China at the height of the Ming dynasty that mapped much of south Asia and the East coast of Africa in Giant ships that dwarfed the vessels of Columbus. A small peice of Warhammer fluff from a Ming Imperial scribe claimed to be part of the WH equiv of this fleet. It would be simple to make the Warhammer Cathayans more persistant than their Historical precedents.

However, the release of Ind, Nippon and Cathay could lead to an overwhelmingly large number of human armies.

Therefore, what i would suggest is that the Kingdoms of Ind be comprised of Rakshasa. Tiger men! With many armed animated statues (a la sinbad) and War elephants! Yasha deamons, and many things lifted out of the Ramayana! perhaps even two warring factions represented by one army list, that could provide equivalent rules for both! Pure Tigers, Tigers with Human Slaves, and pure human Ind armies could together make something very cool.

Jedi152
30-06-2005, 08:48
This issue comes up time and again, and i suspect GW never acts because they just couldn't please the Japanese fanboys out there. Since it's become 'cool' to like oriental stuff in the last few years (just look at how almost all cartoons are now drawn to look like anime!), lots of people are asking for oriental WFB lists.

The problem is that most people don't want WFB nippon lists, they want feudal Japan lists. Bear in mind that no warhammer race is based solely on one race from history - so a nippon list with samurai, ninjas, etc. would be very unlikely.

But as i said there is still the fanboy issue. If GW made a samurai unit for example, they would be innundated with screams of "OMG TEH n00BS!!11! SAMUARI OF TEH 13TH SPRUNK DYNASTY WER ARMED WIHT WASKIZASHIMUNKITONKI DEATH SYTHES, NOT "Great Weapons" LOL STFU n00BS111!!!!1111!111ELEVEN!1111"

As for people using current lists for Nippon/Cathay style armies, go for it!

Griefbringer
30-06-2005, 09:07
The problem is that most people don't want WFB nippon lists, they want feudal Japan lists. Bear in mind that no warhammer race is based solely on one race from history - so a nippon list with samurai, ninjas, etc. would be very unlikely.


Well, back in the 3rd edition there actually was a Nippon allied/mercenary contingent list with samurai, ninja and ashigaru.

synapse
30-06-2005, 09:13
i find it odd somehow that samurai and ninja would be in the same list. didnt the latter used to hunt down and kill the former? i could be wrong but i always thought that

Jedi152
30-06-2005, 09:17
Well, back in the 3rd edition there actually was a Nippon allied/mercenary contingent list with samurai, ninja and ashigaru.
Gw has evolved a lot since then. Bretonnians used to be a carbon copy medieval english army - Present day GW: i stand by my comment.

Rathgar
30-06-2005, 09:22
I want an Araby army :cries:

On this one I think Jedi is right, I don't think we'll be seeing Warhammer Armies: Cathay anytime soon. I think GW have even said that they will be very few, if any new armies added to WFB now.

Griefbringer
30-06-2005, 09:52
Bretonnians used to be a carbon copy medieval english army.

Actually, I think they were more of medieval French carbon copy.

Jedi152
30-06-2005, 09:56
Actually, I think they were more of medieval French carbon copy.
Ah, i knew it was one.

As for Cathay/nippon armies: Gorenut's idea was good: Just use current lists. DE works well, and i've also heard of HoC and DoW lists being used. I seem to recall some of Chris Blair's (?) cathayan conversions were features in a recent WD.

The Emperor
30-06-2005, 10:16
Perhaps GW plans to introduce Cathay through WFRP. One of the rulebooks for it has a lot of nifty trivia about Cathay and Ind (a neighboring country).

If they do, don't count on getting it anytime soon. The present plan is to start with the Empire and then radiate outward. So it'll be Empire first, followed by all the nations immediately around it (Bretonnia, Estalia, Tilea, Kislev, Dwarfs, Skaven, Wood Elves, etc). Then once they're finished up with the Old World, they'll move on to other continents. Probably Araby, first. Or Ulthuan, Naggaroth, and the New World.

Rathgar
30-06-2005, 10:23
If they do, don't count on getting it anytime soon.

True, but if Black Industries keep up the current rate of publishing supplements it may only be a few years away. At the moment it seems like we're getting a new WHFR book every month. This is a very good thing!

therisnosaurus
30-06-2005, 10:31
the problem with GW doing cathay is a) they have little room for a new army and b) they've already done an army based on china- skaven (crazy gunpowder weapons, hordes of sacrificial troops and, well, ninjas.) this leaves little gameplay room for a 'chinese' cathayan army

However, do not despair, for while GW has remained stonily silent, the phoenix of the orient has roosted elsewhere for the last three years, and a group of people (headed by myself) have been working on a cathayan army book (not just a list- fluff, hobby tips, army list, magic items, lores etc) and are currently 2/3's of the way towards the end product, with an ETA early/mid next year. the great thing about this project is it is done by gamers for gamers, and includes people who have experience in both GW's games design and layout design departments. While we are currently short on artists and playtesters, we are attempting to fix that, so if you want to help out, Pm or email me at thereisnosaurus@gmail.com and I'll give you a run down

As has been suggested, our key problem has been with those you call n00bs and we prefer to refer to as 'fluffnuts'. They just want everything represented. no, no a cathayan longsword is not a katana because katanas originate in japan and cathay is CHINA, NIPPON is japan etc, we've even had people complaining about giving troops light armor cause it's not called whatever some crazy oriental name was given to samurai armor. While the list does include samurai, shaolin and ninja STYLE units, they are not samurai, ninjas or shaolin and have their own unique warhammer style and history that makes them far more gritty and high fantasy-esque.

Here's a little preview for those who are still interested- you seem interested in the celestial dragons, so, here's the celestial dragon unit and their 'House' background- part of the background is cathay has warrior houses of humans who dedicate their entire existences, body and soul, to the pursuit of battle, trancending the normal limits of humanity and becoming quasi-magical beings of pure destruction. these are what the celestial dragons epitomise, they eschew material weaponry and seek martial perfection through honing their body. Another interesting idea we've come up with is that of chi. in the warhammer world all sentient beings create magical energy which then bleeds into the realm of chaos, but for the tiny instant between it's creation and it beeing sucked out of its creator, it is pure magic, untainted by chaos. It is this internal magic that the warriors of the houses utilise, allowing them to physicaly transcend humanity and manifest the extraordinary abilities they do

The Celestial Dragons:
The celestial dragons are the most alien of the houses, for as they ascend through their training they leave all that makes them human behind- anger, pain, hatred and so forth, the celestial dragons are utterly incomprehensible to the normal man. While the monks of the dragon do not use any forms of armament or armor other than their fists and feet, this reliance on simplicity allows them to focus on their chi. Unlike the living shadows who focus their chi primarily outside of their bodies, the celestial dragons manipulate it from the inside, harnessing it to heal wounds, strengthen blows and increase their speed until they are merely blurs of death. The celestial dragons are by far the most distant from the populace- aloof and concerned only with their own amelioration and ability to deal death, the ultimate warriors performing the ultimate art. Strangely though, the Celestial Dragons have been known for some of the most heroic and selfless actions in Cathayan history- saving several emperors and empresses from certain death at the cost of their own lives and defending towns against overwhelming odds.

Beliefs and practices
The monks of the celestial dragon believe in spiritual enlightenment and ascension to the spirit world in finest fashion can only be attained through perfection as a warrior. This quest to be the ultimate fighter drives them and infuses every aspect of their lives and culture. They leave their humanity behind as babies and as the few survivors of combat with the monks have described it, to battle with the Celestial Dragons is to battle with death itself. Celestial Dragons are often not content with mere training and actively seek out battle. If not defending Cathay, groups of monks will often travel the world, hiring themselves to caravans on the Silver Road, helping defend Ulthuan for the high elves or simply becoming dogs of war. Wherever battle is to be found, there the Celestial Dragons go. However, should the call to defend their homeland ever reach them, their return is swift- for they can run for days upon end faster than even the greatest athletes of Tilea. In some rare situations, a celestial dragon has taken some mighty warrior under his wing and taught him a few of the secrets of the house, recognizing the potential for the chosen warrior, but these cases are rare and, for the most part, the Celestial Dragons remain distant and cold to the world, existing only to kill.


Celestial Dragon rules:
Otherworldly speed: Celestial Dragons move faster than the eye can see and seem to almost be able to predict attacks before they occur, moving out of the way of a strike nearly before it has begun. Able to move with such rapidity, they can avoid blows or shots that would instantly kill a normal man. All Celestial Dragons have a 5+ ward save
Unarmed warriors: Celestial Dragons are famed for their mastery of combat without either armor or weapon, for they need none their fists can destroy walls and they can avoid even the fastest of strikes. Able to use all four limbs as weapons, as well as elbows, knees, shoulders and almost every other hard part of the body with accuracy that is impossible to attain using a clumsy weapon such as a sword, all celestial dragons count as having an additional hand weapon, ‘built in’ as it were, and will always gain +1 to hit. However, they may never use weapons or armor of any kind (including magical weapons such as the Flaming Sword of Rhuin), and may not purchase any kind of magic item.
Immune to psychology: Celestial Dragons have utter control over their emotions and in some respects just don’t feel them at all. Pain and fear are as alien to them as peace so they are immune to psychology as detailed in the Warhammer rulebook
Breathe fire: one of the more exotic abilities manifested by the celestial dragons is the ability to breathe fire. Through concentration of the chi caused by suppressed pain the Celestial Dragons can expel a volatile blast of raw magic that ignites as it leaves their body and becomes a gout of fire. This attack counts as a ranged weapon with a range of 8”. The fire’s strength is equal to the strength of the Celestial Dragon and, obviously, counts as a fire attack.
Leadership: Celestial Dragon characters may only join Celestial Dragon units. Celestial Dragon units may not use the general’s leadership if he is not a Celestial Dragon, but they may still use the duty unto death rule if within 6” of him


Celestial dragon monks are a special unit: (they also have a hero and lord choice)

Monks of the Celestial Dragon 19pts/model
Type M WS BS S T W I A LD
Celestial Dragon Monk 5 4 4 4 4 1 4 2 8
Abbot 5 4 4 4 4 1 4 3 8





Unit Size: 10+

Equipment: hands and feet (counts as two hand weapons)

Options:
• Upgrade one Celestial Dragon to an Abbot for +15pts
Special rules: Celestial Dragons, neutral unit (this relates to an army universal rule called 'the balance' which influences the cathayan magic phase for better or worse



anyhow, enjoy, and drop me a line if you want more :P

Malen Kharn
30-06-2005, 10:46
they are currently trialing Cathayan army lists for warmaster :)

therisnosaurus
30-06-2005, 11:47
indeed, but they aren't sure a) whether they're going to release it and b) whether they are going to do a range for it. Or at least they weren't last time I checked

Rathgar
30-06-2005, 12:08
Yo, therisnosaurus, whats the finished product of the Cathay Project going to be? A PDF file or just a word document? I'm getting interested.

therisnosaurus
30-06-2005, 12:31
essentialy, if it's good enough we will give it to GW for publication in the journal/wd/online or even as an army book (though I really, really, really doubt that's going to happen). it will include guides to creating your own cathayan army from existing models and so forth. If GW wants nothing to do with it, and if we get their permission, we will distribute the finished book as a PDF online. We're also working on a companion book called the 'book of day and night' which will house everything from nipponese, ungol, provincial cathay, beast of chaos, wood elf, chaos and vampire count variant army lists, scenarios, fiction and stories, extra art, a house creation system so martial arts freaks can make their own units based around their favourite art, rules for jungle fighting in khuresh, oriental regiments of renown. ALL of this will be playtested as much as we can and if possible will be a 'living' book, meaning we can update it constantly based on player feedback and add new items. at the moment the key thing we need is people willing to play as many games as they can with the new list and give us feedback. Unfortunately, because of this you have to be an artist, designer or commit to playtesting before we can give you a copy of the book in progress, we want to keep it REALATIVELY under wraps so people will be as pleasantly surprised when it appears as with a real GW army book.

Rathgar
30-06-2005, 13:50
Well I'm majorly impressed with the idea. I fear at the moment I don't have enough free time to get involved but I wish you the best of luck! Keep us updated in the Fantasy Forums. ;)

Maese Crochets
30-06-2005, 21:14
I've begun with a project of an Ind army list, including Gremlins as portrayers, war elephants, tigers and nagues. I was stuck with the developing of castes, and I eventually made three battle-able ones: brahmans, chitras(warriors) and crafts-gremlins. There are also pariahs. Each class has different skills (obviously) and stats.
Nagues are spirits that serve a specific god, depending of which they'll have different powers.
Gremlins are like goblins, but much better with tools and with a glittering culture. Crafts-Gremlins are tiny and weak, but they use artefacts such as steam rifles or so.
Chitras are bigger and act as light infantry. The most powerful piece of the army are war elephants, of course...

Tastyfish
01-07-2005, 13:50
Ind is mentioned in the BoC book, its essentially a chaos army (though not quite as evily chaos as the northern old world). They have cat beastmen rather than goat ones, and they're kind of at a truce with the villages that leave offerings for them. Sometimes they defend them, other times they raze them anyway.
Still, beastmen, marauders and a giant/shaggoth/elephant and you would be close enough.

There isn't going to be new armies (except maybe machines of chaos) as they lack store space, and I woudn't get your hopes up with warmaster - don't think the studio was too happy with specialist games for doing the Araby one without their involvement.
RoR/DoW and stories are going to be the most likely, but not more than that.

Randallw
01-07-2005, 15:53
No one else seems to have brought it up so I'll point out that here in Oz at least a few months back we got a map of the whole world, on the back of a map of Lustria. There's Grand Cathy with the Great Bastion at the top and Weijin, Seat of the Dragon throne. The Kingdom of Ind and the Hinterlands of Khuresh, and Nippon. Couldn't see any such map in the rulebook judging from a quick glance.

Jedi152
01-07-2005, 16:06
No one else seems to have brought it up so I'll point out that here in Oz at least a few months back we got a map of the whole world, on the back of a map of Lustria. There's Grand Cathy with the Great Bastion at the top and Weijin, Seat of the Dragon throne. The Kingdom of Ind and the Hinterlands of Khuresh, and Nippon. Couldn't see any such map in the rulebook judging from a quick glance.
It isn't in the rulebook. Here in the UK it was released with WD300 as a bonus map.

Most people were understandably under-whelmed. All we get is country names and a few cities. Cathay only has about 2 features, and one of those is a great wall. :rolleyes: GW must have spend months thinking that one up!

In terms of names of Cathayan cities/areas, we got more info from the map in the HoC book.

Reabe
01-07-2005, 16:12
Bah, just use the Dogs of War army. You can get the "army book" from the website.

Cigaro
01-07-2005, 20:29
Cathay for Warmaster? May have to look into this ...

therisnosaurus
02-07-2005, 00:19
oh, and btw, as part of the book of day and night (in which all the random goo will be housed) you guessed it, a feline BoC army. It is however, quite limited, as the beasts are fluffwise all aligned to tzeentch (and don't actually come from ind, these ones come from Leng in northern Khuresh). They're pretty much a jungle themed beastman army, with restrictions on monsters and heavier troops (bestigor, minotaurs etc) and alliances (can ONLY take from the list shown) but they gain more abilities (a new hero who can carry the brayhorn called the 'hunter', bestigor can fight in loose formation, they can take mortal aspiring champions to lead the beasts and all units can take the mark of tzeentch, including basic beast herds)

feintstar
02-07-2005, 05:22
I am so In!

Feline Beastmen with the Mark of Tzeentch! You've made my day. That's going to be legal as well by standard rules... And so, the conversion thoughts begin...

Triceron
02-07-2005, 09:38
AHH! I had the exact same idea for a Nippon/Cathay based race, the feline-based race. Cat-men are so under represented in Fantasy games, even though they've always been a part of traditional fantasy. From Thundercats to Magic the Gathering, Cat-men are awesome!

I imagined a Tiger themed army of noble samurai-esque warriors. Kaze: Ghost Warrior is probably the best example of what I mean (it's a CG film, google it and check it out). This army would be a force of good though, not just your typical Tzeentchian mutant; these would be more like evolved Tigers who follow a path or code of honor rather be primal beasts who just kill cuz they can.

From fist-fighting monks to samurai warriors, I think this could definately work out. You could even have different kind of warriors and japanese-styled armor based off the physique of a tiger. Imagine the awesome samurai-style masks they'd wear! Tigers beat out a dragon race anyday IMO. Besides, Dragons would totally encroach upon the Lizardmen domain, and take away from its uniqueness of being the only lizard-based army. Felines are definately a step away from being similar to the Beast armies, which revolve more around horned/hooved gors and minotaurs.

gorenut
03-07-2005, 21:01
Well, I think the problem with a feline race is that it might start nudging elbows with elves in terms of stats and feats. Generally whenever anything is cat-related.. you think of something that is nimble and agile... so basically we're going to see a stat-line very similar to elves.. since well.. elves are known for the same qualities. The exception is.. I suppose the bigger cats also possess great strength.. which then just ends up overshadowing the elves.

I'm sure wargear, magic items, and special skills will make all the difference.. but I dunno.. not too crazy on cat people. Just my opinion ofcourse.

Jeru
03-07-2005, 21:07
elves would still be way more dominant with magic imo.

ps as soon as someone said 'cat race' i immediately thought of the bastet book from white wolf heh.

therisnosaurus
03-07-2005, 21:25
essentialy the main changes from bovine to feline gamewise are that every beast unit (beast characters, beast herds, bestigor etc) have +1 initiative. the army also has restrictions in the form of no unit being able to take a standard (one of the things we emphasised in the orient is that the oriental style of war relies on multiple combats and tactics rather than solid blocks performing and holding charges on their own, and so are less armored and do not easily get the basic +5 bonus. (there are some units that still have access to a variant standard in the cathay list, but not many). Also on the kicked list is shields, great weapons and heavy armor. the latter two are universaly replaced are replaced with Cathayan longswords and 'darkpelts' respectively. darkpelts are matted fur and thick pelts on the larger Beasts of Leng, and give them +2 save vs missile fire.
so for example, a beasts of leng bestigor unit differs from a standard beast one in that
-it fights in loose formation (ambush theme)
-it cannot buy a standard
-instead of heavy armor/great weapons, they have light armor, dark pelts and cathayan longswords.
Minotaurs are replaced by Rakan (can anyone say a cross between pandaren, polar bears and a rather pissed off meat carver), and trolls by komodan (giant lizard thingies).

anyhow, hope that's got you interested, don't forget, if you think you might be able to help create or playtest work for the cathay project, feel free to email me at thereisnosaurus@gmail.com and I'll send you a copy of the book and the variant lists if you want. Unfortunately however, we need a commitment that you will be able to help before we can give you the latest material at this stage, mostly because of people asking for a copy of the book so they can comment and then never being heard of again.

Lady Bastet
11-07-2005, 21:01
The only problem with me doing a Catmen army, is most of the models I have seen do not look suitable for a wargame. The Basti in Wargods for example look the least intimidating of all the factions.

swordquest
12-07-2005, 00:05
The only problem with me doing a Catmen army, is most of the models I have seen do not look suitable for a wargame. The Basti in Wargods for example look the least intimidating of all the factions.
I am offended! I bet my basti harbinger could kik your generals ****!!!
Basti are wargods dark elves, who suk at cc for the most part and have lots of topless women running about...

Xisor
12-07-2005, 00:55
TBH, as long as GW Studio can do a good 'fluff and list' on the Cathay/Nippon race, I'm quite confident they'd be able to good models to fit them. Until GW can do them justice, I hope we never see them!

That said, a Feline-Orientel army does sound like it has promise(alot more than I'd have thought a Mongoloid Ogre army would have, which turned out to be alot! I really like the ogres!)

Xisor

therisnosaurus
12-07-2005, 04:53
yeah, but the beasts of leng are more of a side project to be placed in a companion warhammer realms style book. the army list is similar to the ones in the lustria book in that it requires a special character in 2000+ points games (though it can be taken in less than 2000 point games W/O that character). there's also a dogs of war regiment that relates to their army, kartok's flayers.
some other little bitz and pieces such as WE, VC and cathay variant armies (the latter for the provinces, nippon and the ungol steppes)
-provinces: horde army, can take double the number of heroes a normal army can, but heroes are a lot worse than normal ones. lots and lots of angry peasants and their various contraptions.
-nippon: almost the opposite- good core troops, including house warriors, but restrictions on the cheaper, throwaway toops that are actually almost essential to a good cathayan army (or so we've found through playtesting). options are included to make a samurai style army, with the option to take heavy armored longbowmen, swordsmen and medium cavalry with the same sort of options.
-ungols: includes the light chariots common in historical china. very much a fast cavalry harassment army, there are options included for heroes that allow you to march regardless of distance from enemy and take light chariots as unit champions.

as always, if you want to try playing with any of these lists, give me a mail at thereisnosaurus@gmail.com, and i'll sort you out with a list and fluff booklet. ONLY if you want to playtest or help develop at this stage, I can't give out stuff to people who just want to read it and not comment.

ghost21
14-07-2005, 23:45
the only trubble with having "cat men as evil" is that in BoC they were described more as the new WE as both helping and hindering

the other thing i could see as a rakasska atache or a celestial monk as a hero choice that kind of thing

though id like to see more like an alied contingent or as said before dow units

in the planing stage of my conversions are some cathay/ nipon units for an small 500 point border patroal using tau as the basis (there armour is most like the samuri) with 6 hoved horses and other sutch stuff

Gavmo
15-07-2005, 07:37
A Samurai army would make me return to WFB. Plus, I know its wrong, but I would love to cut some of the models up and convert my space marines. :eek:

pinion
16-07-2005, 00:15
I remember a story in the old Lizardman Army book about a thousand ships of the emperor coming across the sea to the southlands, and the Slann destroying them all in a typhoon or something like that.

anarchistica
16-07-2005, 01:05
On a real world note, I love the whole mystery surounding the Shaolin Monks
What mystery? Just a bunch of guys who train all day and "allow" Westerners to train with them for a measily $10,000 or something per year. :p

The problem with Cathay/Ind/Nippon is that alot of Eastern elements already exist in Warhammer. Warrior Monks, ninja's/assassins, katars (fighting claws), repeating crossbows, spearmen, halberdiers, mongol horse archers, handgunners, etc. It would just be another Empire army with some Dark Elf/Skaven elements really.

Plus, the whole fanboy thing. Katanas could cut through an anvil, every hero with chi is an invulnerable Sajyan who lobs spirit bombs and kamehamehas around, every human unit with chi has BS5 or +1 to hit or a 5+ ward save, dragons are half-cloud so ignore ward saves, etc (this is a stab @ thereisnosaurus & crew :p).

Ps: Yes thereisnosaurus, i will reply to your comments on the forum, just takes some more time. :p

Inquisitor DreaxIV
16-07-2005, 03:16
A feline-beast orient army is much different than the western beasts and it provides much more conversion oportunity... problem is finding the feline pieces for it :p

The main fetures of the Beasts of Khuresh or whatever they're called now is the extra Initiative the beast models get, different weapon selections (longswords available to most elite beast units, not monsters though), and better survivability against missiles with their +2vs missiles. They dont get a full choice of all the magic items so cannot chose magic shields or chaos armour such as crimson armour and armour of damnation, although standard chaos armour may be bought. Probably one of my favourite units is the DoW unit kartoks flayers which skirmish, have multiple attacks which are poisoned or killing blow (can't remember). The Raken are advataged as well as they benefit from the +2 vs missile save and they get cathayan longswords. Plus warhounds get better leadership when in range of a Hunter (new hero).

It isnt that much of a change from the normal list so there is no new units except the Hunter and the DoW unit, but your right feintstar, it does bring lots of conversion thoguhts to mind.

therisnosaurus
16-07-2005, 09:25
bombs and kamehamehas around, every human unit with chi has BS5 or +1 to hit or a 5+ ward save, dragons are half-cloud so ignore ward saves, etc

despite your obvious and overarching grasp of rules, I think you've missed one major point in warhammer. IT IS NOT HISTORY. in warhammer, the fanboys rule :P.
not precisely, but do not the empire have mages who can conjure a small city, engineers that make ironclad tanks, gatling cannons and starved, hungry tramps who are T4 UNBREAKABLE. and they are the most DELIBERATELY mundane of the armies.

THE WHOLE POINT behind warhammer is, like all fantasy, exageration and twisting of reality. katanas were sometimes tested in japan by seeing how far into a treetrunk they would sink when swung. I just exaggerated that and turned treetrunk into solid rock.

also, you fail to understand the difficulty of creating an army that, like you say, is different to the current ones. sure, we could do china, but it would end up, gameplay wise identical to either the empire or skaven. we could do feudal japan, but it would be pretty much identical to the high elves, only human and not elven base traits. what we did is more involved and far better than either. We try to keep the fanboy aspects down. if they'd had their way each samurai would be the equal of a chaos lord and you would be able to take human-emulation-robots (also known as mechs) as core. you will note that possibly the ONLY fanboy references in there are the house abilities. And, even you, I'm sure, can see the fun to be had in converting those nasty buggers. And to make matters even worse, we actually bothered to JUSTIFY it in the BACKGROUND, unlike 99.9% of fan projects out there, nothing got better or worse (mostly) stats than it deserved.

finaly, as to the heroes, well the ones in the core cathay book are the mightiest ones around- the magistrates and warbreathers. the problem with having a lowborn hero would be that, well, not much point. However, you'll be pleased to note that one of the BOB armies WILL have that sort of army with cheap and mediocre heroes and what not. We are trying to accomodate as many people as we can with this list and I think my team are doing a mighty fine job of it too.

Of course, your criticisms are mostly valid and we do both take them in and act on them, and I'm awaiting your next instalment of hatemail with much anticipation :) you had some great ideas last time...

Odin
16-07-2005, 10:08
essentialy the main changes from bovine to feline gamewise are that every beast unit (beast characters, beast herds, bestigor etc) have +1 initiative.

<Warning - I am about to be pedantic>

Actually, bovine refers specifically to cattle. Beastmen are generally goat-men, which would be caprine, not bovine.

<cough> sorry about that. Anyways, I do like the idea of Cathayans in WHFB, but it's something that could so easily be done badly. I think the most important thing to do would be to try to make them very different from historical Chinese, otherwise it's just a bit silly (the great wall is bad enough!).

In the meantime I would say Empire may be the best army to represent Cathayans - they have the handgunners, spearmen etc. Use Vespero's Vendetta to represent Ninjas, Knights or Greatswords to represent Samurai (mounted or unmounted).

L.Hutz
16-07-2005, 15:03
Would love to see an army for Cathay, but not holding my breath...