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Sikkukkut
16-10-2006, 13:06
On this thread (http://forum.blacklibrary.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9096) on the Black Library boards, Graham McNeill has revealed that he's doing a book about Fulgrim and the Emperor's Children:


Yes indeed, I am working on a novel about Fulgrim and the Emperor's Children...telling a tale that runs from a time roughly conterminous with the beginning of Horus Rising and going all the way to the end of everyone's favourite drop site massacre (not the Quartz Zone). It's a mammoth undertaking and has occupied a great deal of my time over the last few months (and is likely to occupy plenty more of it given its behemoth-like size). It'll fill in some of the missing pieces of the jigsaw deliberately left in the opening trilogy so that we'll learn more of how Lucius decided to start cutting himself...what happened when Fulgrim met Horus on the Vengeful Spirit...and more besides. At the moment, I'm writing the bit where...nah...I'll not spoil it for you, but I think you're gonna like it.

Interesting stuff, particularly the way that further books are going to fill in some of the spots that the initial trilogy leapfrogged.

Acolyte of Bli'l'ab
16-10-2006, 13:08
Nice! thanks for the info :D

Josiah
16-10-2006, 13:13
Who's Norus?

:p

That sounds really cool. Thanks for the info!

Sikkukkut
16-10-2006, 13:18
He's the Chaos God of Typos, who taunts mortals with the "edit post" function only to betray them by not letting them edit the titles! :eek: Aieeee!

Kittah
16-10-2006, 13:18
Who's Norus?

:p

That sounds really cool. Thanks for the info!

The Norris Heresy? Except he actually beats the Emperor with a Chaos-infused roundhouse kick as the Emperor clutches at his ginger beard in futility.

RampagingRavener
16-10-2006, 14:39
As long as we don't get the rampant stupidity decribed in the Card Game where Fulgrim wusses out before killing Ferrus Manus and gets possessed by a Daemon, who then kills FM, then I'm happy.

Say Yes to evil Primarchs, say No to scaredy-cat daemon fodder Primarchs!

EDIT: What am I talking about, McNeil is one of my favorite BL authors, I'll end up getting it whatever...

jma037
16-10-2006, 22:43
The Norris Heresy? Except he actually beats the Emperor with a Chaos-infused roundhouse kick as the Emperor clutches at his ginger beard in futility.

Imagine a Chaos special character called Norrus...

WS 10 BS 1 St 10 T11(yes 11) W9 A 6D6 I 10 Ld 10 Sv 1+(inv)

Special deployment: Always start in reserve. On the turns that he's not on the table. One independent character of your choice from the other player's army will take a ST 10 wound with no save. because if you can see chuck. chuck can see you...if you can't see chuck...you could be seconds away from death...

malika
16-10-2006, 22:44
I hope the daemonic possession will be worked out in a cool manner!

Isoroku
16-10-2006, 23:13
ehhh, Excuse I title badly of post not this? it is not the Heresy of Horus?

malika
17-10-2006, 12:16
Yeah or the Horus Heresy, in Spanish its la Herejía de Horus.

violenceha
17-10-2006, 12:52
Ahh my favourite chapter written by my favourite author, what could possibly go wrong!

malika
17-10-2006, 13:08
Ahh my favourite chapter written by my favourite author, what could possibly go wrong!

Dont say that...please..

RampagingRavener
17-10-2006, 13:25
...Or Fulgrim will wimp out and get possessed in what has to be one of the stupidest fluff fiddles ever. And no-one wants that now, do they?

t-tauri
17-10-2006, 13:32
Who's Norus?

Title edited.

malika
17-10-2006, 13:34
...Or Fulgrim will wimp out and get possessed in what has to be one of the stupidest fluff fiddles ever. And no-one wants that now, do they?

I dont mind the possession itself, only if done correctly...you could have it that this daemon is slowly trying to get into Fulgrim's mind, first as a companion but later on clearly taking over his mind. Im getting a Fight Club like scenario in my mind for this. just dont let Fulgrim wimp out...

Horusaurus
17-10-2006, 14:08
I hope the daemonic possession will be worked out in a cool manner!

Me too. Like it not happening.

LarryS
17-10-2006, 14:24
At the very least I need to buy a copy so I can complain about it later.:p Just kidding - I have high hopes for this book. I'd like to see more on the genetic modification they showed in Galaxy in Flames and more on the origins of the noise marines.

Fulgrim's Gimp
17-10-2006, 18:52
This is, indeed great news. I like the Fight Club idea of how to handle the possession, Malika.

' I'm Fulgrim's complete lack of surprise'

I can see it now...

El_Phen
17-10-2006, 20:20
How it could go...

"The first rule of killing Ferrus Manus is that you do not wimp out. The second rule of...oh wait, never mind, let ME do it."

malika
18-10-2006, 00:19
Me too. Like it not happening.

How come is the idea of Fulgrim having a split personality which takes a daemonic form so bad? GW oversimplifies it by simply going "Fulgrim was such a goodie but the daemon made him bad boohoo" Perhaps Fulgrim himself was also corrupted but in a different level as the daemon who spoke to him. I dont think Fulgrim needed the daemon, but the Daemon invaded his mind slowly. Fulgrim, a perfectionist as he is, tries to fight the daemon off and hides him also to prevent the others from knowing he has this split personality. Eventually the Daemon becomes too powerful and takes over, or perhaps even fuses together with Fulgrim, resulting in both Fulgrim and the daemon changing in this new character.

So we're having Fulgrim and Tyler Durden running around killing Laer right?

Uriel71
18-10-2006, 14:12
Well, as much as some people don't like it, Fulgrim's possession is in the Artbooks and, seeing as how they're written by Alan Merrett (the IP watchdog of GW), that fact is pretty much set in stone. These books have formed the gospel for the Heresy novels, but worry ye not, this section of the novel has been worked out so as to be wicked cool...

Uriel71

malika
18-10-2006, 14:37
I think Alan Merrit's version of the HH is...well rape of the original version, but things could always be altered.

At the Anargo Sector Project we were working on a "re-write" of the Horus Heresy which is basicly an attempt to correct the mistakes made by Alan Merrit, but also incoorporating the new stuff. Check the following threads and join in:

-Sisters of Silence (http://anargo-sector.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=752)
-The Custodian Guard (http://anargo-sector.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=751)
-Horus Heresy ASP Version (http://anargo-sector.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=744)
-Discussion about the ASP interpretation of the Horus Heresy (http://anargo-sector.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=745)
-General Horus Hersy Discussion (http://anargo-sector.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=631)

t-tauri
18-10-2006, 14:41
Alan Merritt's version is the original version. IIRC he's been with GW since the dawn and the version in the Heresy books is canon.

malika
18-10-2006, 14:44
Well...I dunno why he decided to go nuts when he wrote the version of the HHCG, contradicting himself and definately ruining some of his existing ideas.

CELS
18-10-2006, 17:13
As long as we don't get the rampant stupidity decribed in the Card Game where Fulgrim wusses out before killing Ferrus Manus and gets possessed by a Daemon, who then kills FM, then I'm happy.
Say Yes to evil Primarchs, say No to scaredy-cat daemon fodder Primarchs!
Oh, I'll agree with that. Alan Merrett screwed the Horus Heresy fluff in so many ways, fixing only half as many problems as he created. However, there is a 99% chance that GW will stick with this 'new' fluff for a few years, at least, before changing it again. After all, the previous Heresy novels from Black Library have been true to the card game material, except for a few minor contradictions.

Fulgrim's Gimp
18-10-2006, 22:03
Like Graham says above, if done well the possession could work quite well. I'm hoping the door is left open for Fulgrim to break free from the possession in the inter legionary wars after the heresy and become an illuminati.

malika
18-10-2006, 22:10
Graham didnt say that...I did!

7thOffensive
19-10-2006, 02:39
I'll buy anything that Graham McNeill puts his name on.

he is my favorite WH40k writer after abnett.

Fulgrim's Gimp
19-10-2006, 19:29
Graham didnt say that...I did!

True ,you said it first ,but as Uriel 71 is writing the book.... It's good to see the author's aware that it could be a controversial part of the story though. What's bothered me is why couldn't the Emperor see Fulgrim was possessed ?Also any chance that Uriel 71 will be doing an Iron Warriors HH novel ?

Voronwe[MQ]
19-10-2006, 19:33
Top three Black Library authors:
1) Matthew Farrer.
2) Dan Abnett.
3) Graham McNeill.

The Judge
19-10-2006, 19:49
All sounds good to me... though Tarvtiz did get a bit... tiring by the end of the third book.

More Lucius!

malika
19-10-2006, 21:26
True ,you said it first ,but as Uriel 71 is writing the book.... It's good to see the author's aware that it could be a controversial part of the story though. What's bothered me is why couldn't the Emperor see Fulgrim was possessed ?Also any chance that Uriel 71 will be doing an Iron Warriors HH novel ?

Oh the author of the book is an actual member here? That's quite interesting to see :)

The Emperor might not have seen it since he didnt see Fulgrim for a whole lot of time when he was on Terra locked in his basement?

7thOffensive
19-10-2006, 22:46
Never heard of Matthew Farrer.

malika
19-10-2006, 22:49
No...:rolleyes:

RampagingRavener
19-10-2006, 22:54
Bah-no matter how well it's written, I just think it's a fantastically stupid peice of fluff. All the other Traitor Primarchs can stick with their descisions, but Fulgim gets put across as a weak fool who can't make up his mind? Stupid.

Now, if the Possession happened before the battle and involved Fulgrim deliberatly letting himself be possessed and entering into a symbiotic relationship but without letting the daemon control him, and him having doubts before he kills Ferrus but the Daemon finishes the job, that I can go with. But just having Fulgrim wimp out, then get possessed? It just puts him across as weak and foolish.

Starscream1138
19-10-2006, 23:04
All sounds good to me... though Tarvtiz did get a bit... tiring by the end of the third book.

I actually quite liked Tarvitz. He was a bit two dimensional, but he grew on me a lot in the third book.

If there is going to be a book about the Emperors Children though, it's probably not to much of a stretch to imagine that Lucius will be in it.

malika
19-10-2006, 23:16
Bah-no matter how well it's written, I just think it's a fantastically stupid peice of fluff. All the other Traitor Primarchs can stick with their descisions, but Fulgim gets put across as a weak fool who can't make up his mind? Stupid.

Now, if the Possession happened before the battle and involved Fulgrim deliberatly letting himself be possessed and entering into a symbiotic relationship but without letting the daemon control him, and him having doubts before he kills Ferrus but the Daemon finishes the job, that I can go with. But just having Fulgrim wimp out, then get possessed? It just puts him across as weak and foolish.

IIRC the Daemon was in Fulgrim's head for quite some time now, he mentioned to Horus that he spoke to Fulgrim for ages. Personally Im more fond of the idea that the daemon and Fulgrim merge together instead of the Daemon merely taking over Fulgrim. Fulgrim would of course try as hard as possible to hide this daemon, as perfectionistic as he is.

Nazguire
20-10-2006, 01:33
I would just prefer Fulgrim, from the day of his 'birth' having a little second voice in his head. Not a daemon, just a more vocal conscious than most, playing the Devil's Advocate in order to let him make the best decisions.
Eventually throughout the Crusade this personality quirk gets stronger and stronger, due to his incessant perfectionism being an inherent weakness. Naturally this is just the wisps of Chaos making their way through, but he doesn't know it yet.
It's only his meeting with Horus that fully opens up the doors for a Slaaneshi daemon to change this extended conscious to a vacancy for possession and the meeting with Mannus (second time around) it melds with Fulgrim, so he's half possessed, half not. Still in full control of his actions (of course influenced by Chaos, as all the traitor Primarchs were) but got the added 'bonus' of a daemonic possession.

Voronwe[MQ]
20-10-2006, 07:04
Never heard of Matthew Farrer.

He has written the books Crossfire, Legacy, Junktion and Blind, all of which dwelves deeply into details and the 40k universe as a whole.

RampagingRavener
20-10-2006, 09:46
IIt's only his meeting with Horus that fully opens up the doors for a Slaaneshi daemon to change this extended conscious to a vacancy for possession and the meeting with Mannus (second time around) it melds with Fulgrim, so he's half possessed, half not. Still in full control of his actions (of course influenced by Chaos, as all the traitor Primarchs were) but got the added 'bonus' of a daemonic possession.

Yea-if this Possession thing is going to be done, that is what it should be like. A Symbiotic relationship like other Possessed Marines have, where they allow a Daemon to enter their bodies but without surrendering their free will.


Personally Im more fond of the idea that the daemon and Fulgrim merge together instead of the Daemon merely taking over Fulgrim.

Again, yes to this. Outright possession is just stupid, if basic Marines can retain some of their free will but a bloody Primarch can't, then really, it doesn't put Fulgrim across well at all.

Grindgodgrind
20-10-2006, 09:51
I look forward to this book, but I prefer the old fluff about Fulgrim -not- being possessed prior to Istvaan.

Captain Erod
20-10-2006, 16:30
My Top three Black Library authors:
1) Dan Abnett.
2) Graham McNeill.
3) Ben Counter.

Chainsworded Codpiece
20-10-2006, 18:14
My Top three Black Library authors:
1) Dan Abnett.
2) Graham McNeill.
3) Ben Counter.

Erod, awesome art re-do for your avatar. I can just see your BrClaw guy pushing a meltabomb down some wretched 'Fex's throatpipes...

Mr. Farrer, I enjoyed what little of the "Arbites Series" I've been able to find at the library. Good stuff, and wonderfully detailed. Though I admit, it was ,like, a chapter-and-a-half that I got through. Still, so much GW fiction is a loaf-pinch from first paragraph-onward; what I've read of yours gives me hope:)

Good luck with this, it sounds like a hell of a task...

Voronwe[MQ]
20-10-2006, 19:26
Mr. Farrer is bloody well extremely close to equal Robert Jordan, man! Do go read him. ;)

Credo72
20-10-2006, 20:34
Graham MacNeill mentions the Quartz Zone Massacre, mucho kudos to the fella for that one. Fingers crossed for a certain mohican sporting blueskin making an easter egg-like appearance in the book :D

I rather enjoyed Simon Spurrier's Fire Warrior, thought it really fleshed out the game plot as well as adding some corkin' background fluff on the Tau race.

sulla
20-10-2006, 21:44
;1020826']He has written the books Crossfire, Legacy, Junktion and Blind, all of which dwelves deeply into details and the 40k universe as a whole.

Haven't read Junktion and blind yet but I particularly enjoyed Legacy. Well worth picking up for anyone who wants a good read.

Voronwe[MQ]
20-10-2006, 21:49
Legacy is without a doubt one of the absolutely best books I have read, and the fact that Mr. Farrer actually got something very tragic (which I don't at all like in normal cases) 40k-ish and so good I felt something flicker and die within me.

(that's to quote Crossroads of Twilight. actually, I just felt it was an extremely good book, but it sounded lesser good)