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Voronwe[MQ]
16-10-2006, 18:49
The Adeptus Subtilae Diplomatica

After the Horus Heresy, the Ultramarines’ primarch Roboute Guilliman declared in the Codex Astartes that the Legionnes Astartes should be broken down into smaller units called Chapters, but the Imperial Fists’ primarch Rogal Dorn refused. Guilliman called Dorn a traitor, whilst Dorn in turn accused Guilliman for being a coward, hanging far away from Terra and the Emperor when Horus’ traitor legions attacked. Conflict seemed inevitable when an Imperial Fists ship was fired upon, but Dorn finally agreed on the terms of Guilliman’s Chapter decree, splitting the Imperial Fists into three separate chapters, the Crimson Fists, one that remained with the Legion’s original name and the Black Templars under the command of Dorn’s right hand Sigismund.

The Imperium had been close to be plunged into another bloody civil war, but had been saved when Dorn stoically decided to back. History - including the origins of the Horus Heresy – however, showed more often than not that humans tend to follow their emotions and all too easily react after blind wrath, and many high-ranking individuals on Terra and around knew this all too well, and, for the fear of similar future events quickly running out of control, the Adeptus Subtilae Diplomatica was formed in the aftermath of the bloodiest war the galaxy had ever seen to provide diplomatic subtlety as a way of preventing internal conflicts within the Imperium of Mankind. At this time, the Order Famolous was yet five millennia away in the future to come into existence, but its forming have not changed the influence of the Adeptus Subtilae Diplomatica significantly or at all.

The Adeptus Subtilae Diplomatica is a smaller branch of the Adeptus Terra that acts as a body for unsettled matters and smooth conflict solving between the multitudes of organisations, institutions, local factions, noble houses, cults, interest groups, guilds, trade syndicates, different arms of Imperial Adeptus and all manner of groups within the Imperium, and mostly in questions they cannot solve themselves easily.
Each diplomat is trained and skilled in the perception of internal hierarchies, beliefs, actual knowledge in questions, customs, dynamics, actual self confidence, hidden promises, threats and meanings through hints, signs, reactions, suppression of emotional exposes and other subtle things. To this end they undergo deep hypnotic therapies and neural surgery to heighten their social reactions as well as operations of nose implants constructed to imitate Fenrisian wolves’ olfactory organs (who is believed to have the most sensitive mammal scent sense in the whole galaxy); i.e., to the point where they can smell emotions – everything to aid them in their tasks. The nose implants is not useful all the time as one does not simply know the background reasons, experiences or memories that causes a emotion; also, male diplomats states that women are especially perplexing. It does, however, helps with puzzling together a whole picture of a situation.

Whilst the diplomats works for the best of the Imperium – and strives to prevent schisms, conflicts and disappointment that leads to lust for revenge; things that makes for disorder – there is, as always seems to be the case, many and varied views and opinions of the definitions and interpretations of this as well as those that may think that it would be in the Imperium’s best interests to restrict the power and/or authority of one or more of the parties involved. Also, many persons within the Imperium creates contact networks amongst the diplomats; though such methods are far from uncommon (sometimes they are even respected) and are often viewed as something of the unofficial reality that one must count with and endure, so this does not result in one of the basic fundaments of the Adeptus Subtilae Diplomatica, that of trust, being severely damaged by it.

Most diplomats is clad in sparsely adorned and decorated clothes in neutral colours. This is of course dependant of the local culture, but grey or brown is generally viewed as neutral. On some planets, like Vostroya and Coerlan, it is custom or viewed as polite to wear clothes with equally large fields in the colours of the parties during official meetings; or at least of different size but with other parts of the clothes or boots to compensate.

On many worlds it is common practice to let the Adeptus Arbites or local legal authorities seal a treaty with the Sigillum Legalis, the Sigillum Aquila or any of the other numerous accepted and sanctioned seals available to make sure that the concessions and compromises is observed under the ever-vigilant eye of the Imperial law.

As negotiators the diplomats are almost always aware of the real borders of what can be demanded and what can be offered by the different sides in a question, and are always careful with facial expressions, formulations (since spyflies and vox-recorders are commonplace and words can unintentionally reveal more than one wants) and keeping calm. They are required to understand exactly when the real question has been ended and when the minor price-negotiations start, although this is rarely difficult.

The Adeptus Subtilae Diplomatica works in the background, but the effects of their work are often more wide-spanning than one would believe at first glance. For example, in the run-up for the second Hadekuro crusade, which resulted in the Orks there being driven out, the Adeptus Subtilae Diplomatica was an important factor and a secret driving force, as many governors were reluctant to aiding the crusade with the Imperial Guard regiments and specialist corps requisitioned. Diplomats continually lobbied the governors, their ministers, advisors, pastors, consuls and surrounding staff during a seven-month period, resulting in the criteria of regiments being met much sooner and smoother than ordinary enforcements and calls would have resulted in, letting the governors keep their dignity intact and being crucial in the success of the crusade.

A far more shadowy aspect of the Adeptus Subtilae Diplomatica is the numerous occasions where one or more diplomats have accompanied Rogue Traders, Imperial delegations, Ordo Xenos Inquisitors and others for negotiations and meetings with aliens. It is during such circumstances that they truly stands apart from the innumerable collaborators, trusted individuals skilled in intrigue and other persons that groups within the Imperium are more likely to choose for their unsettled matters instead of the Adeptus Subtilae Diplomatica, as few of them would be able to perceive the xenos species’ dynamics, manners, customs, internal hierarchies etc. as fast as the Adeptus Subtilae Diplomatica as well as noting and memorising them as good. The hypnotic therapies and neural surgery are usually the most directly important components (as well as patience and skill) of successful negotiations until the diplomats eventually have begun to understand the bewildering emotion-scents secreted by different xenos; although some races with highly evolved olfactory organs such as Eldar is known to utilise labyrinth-perfumes, scent-stimuli and pheromone-incenses in order to shroud their emotions for each other - for cultural reasons, obviously (and, as an effect of this, also hiding them for outsiders). Some Inquisitors and Rogue Traders view the Adeptus Subtilae Diplomatica as valuable due to the fact that its diplomats rapidly understand xenos’ different behaviours etc. The Inquisitors for the knowledge gained about the xenos species in question and the Rogue Traders for the ‘do’s and don’ts’ they provide them, as it may offer unique possibilities during the goods- and price-negotiations - or just get them an acceptable load of goods during tricky situations.

“You say that you’ve experienced the raw reality of diplomacy? Have you ever tried to remain calm and to not unconsciously move your hands one inch whilst you feel a big, unswallowable lump in your throat and try to meet the other one’s eyes levelly and not involuntarily fidget? Have you ever forced yourself to not hold your breath whilst the sweat begins to collect on your back and the other one smells all the more of irritation – a smell like thousands of sharp needles pointed upwards over a plain surface – and suppressed anger and you know that everything is balancing on a knife’s edge? If you don’t have, I doubt your experience is worth much more than a mediocre-sized heap of grox-dung.”
-Senior Casus diplomat Kahnarvils Ghourn.

Voronwe[MQ]
16-10-2006, 18:50
Critics and comments are welcome.

Isoroku
16-10-2006, 19:12
Hummm, and now that it has happened with them? Inquisicion To hang of a Tree to want to speak with not-imperial?
The Water Cast surely that to speak long with them....

Voronwe[MQ]
16-10-2006, 19:20
There is numerous occasions of references where Imperial ambassadors have visited xenos species, be it for actual negotiation, spying or feiting to win time or gamble for other backlying reasons. There is not only the xenos=devils-from-utter-hell view of aliens within the Imperium, although it is rife.

EDIT:
Naturally this is the case, as there is always pragmatic, deceivful, intriguing, greedy or what else kind of people you want within the Inquisition, too.

Isoroku
16-10-2006, 19:32
A clear example of that type of maneuver is the attempt to delay to the Tau being commanded an embassy to Tol'ku to delay the attack to give time to the reinforcements to arrive... Although that time not well since the Tau sent them to discuss just with the equipment of luxury debate....

Voronwe[MQ]
16-10-2006, 19:35
Exactly, and in Codex: Eldar (third edition), there was an excerpt from a published (censored?) book written by an Imperial delegate.

Shibboleth
16-10-2006, 19:41
I voted 'none of the above'. It's not particularly vague, yet still an interesting idea. There's plenty of obscure officialdom within the Imperium for these guys to believably exist.

Though it's a bit strange that someone can equal the best nose in the galaxy by a simple operation... ;)

Maybe they could fit an Imperial Commanders Headquarters group, but then I don't know what battlefield role they would play?

Voronwe[MQ]
16-10-2006, 19:48
It was not I that voted 'Excellent, ...', if anyone wonders. I have actually sent a copy to GW, but I doubt that we will see them in the relatively close future. But perhaps in a BL book or two in some years...

Let's suppose that they gets it by several, carefully coordinated and ritualised operations, then.;)

I too wondered about their battlefield role, but except for mission objectives or Inquisitor battles, I found none suitable for tabletop gaming, sadly.

Isoroku
16-10-2006, 19:51
I imagine to the imperial diplomatics poor men explaining the ambassador to him to eldar to who they robbed vehicul to him that that finishes the condemned to the Savages of Schaffer

BaronDG
16-10-2006, 21:50
I wouldn't call it an Adeptus at all. Maybe a bit more informal, like a society.
Apart from that it was both well written and a fun read.

Apart from that I want to trade with the orks, so I'm hoping that sometime in the future the ordo xenos book will include rules for rogue traders and the next ork codex brings back the clans (bloodaxe!)

Voronwe[MQ]
17-10-2006, 10:48
Well, I hopes that too, certainly!:D I hesitated between calling them Officio or Adeptus, but went for a minor Adeptus (and not represented in the Senatorium Imperialis, of course) since it is not unlikely they would be. Thanks for the critics and comments; bring them on.

malika
17-10-2006, 12:14
You probably read this one (http://anargo-sector.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=860) already right?

Voronwe[MQ]
17-10-2006, 13:11
You probably read this one (http://anargo-sector.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=860) already right?

No, in fact I haven't: I wrote this on summer holiday out from some vague ideas that I had have some time, and then corrected it and made it better for a week ago.
The fact that I've tried (though failed - I will switch e-mail any day now) to join the anargo sector, and that one easily can see other ones articles speaks against me, I suppose, but I will take a look at it later today, and then it will be the first time I read it. I suppose that some references here, and some there, and then the Shira Calpurnia books and others have made this idea pretty much general, in a relative sense, so I suppose I should not be surprised that someone came before me.:rolleyes:
Departmento Emissarium? The name is better than what I made up...:P

EDIT:
And then there is Wheel of Time, with its complex, realistic intrigues and plot, which sparks imagination something enormously - to not say wolfkin Perrin Aybara's enhanced senses.

I have read through some part of it now, but I will stop before I decides to do what the one that voted alternative nr. 4, as it is far better than my own made-up background material.

If CELS finds what I posted here as a poor plagiat, then I apologize for any feelings of wrath or hate that I might have caused, as it was - by its very nature - unintentionally as I have not even looked closer on a single 'thread' at the ASP. The fact that I posted this to Kage will probably get me banned out from any chance of participating in the ASP, as he might revolt at seeing something that in its constitutional parts and a number of details is similar in idea to the Departmento Emissarium - which, I repeat, is far better than my article here.

Voronwe

Xisor
17-10-2006, 13:24
Pros:

There's likely a bunch of Adepts Terra that go about doing this all their lives... giving 'Human Relations' talks to various Adepts of the Imperium etc. It'd be very much promogulating(is that the word?) the Imperial Truth. However, the Imperial Truth these days is the Imperial Creed...not that of the Iterators.

Cons:

Adeptus. It'd be a Departmento or simply an independent (within the Adeptus Terra aka the Priesthood of Earth/Terra or the Administratum) entity. It wouldn't be a seperate Adeptus.

IIRC the Adeptus are:

Adeptus Terra
Adeptus Mechanicus
Adeptus Ad Astra Telepathica
Adeptus Arbites
Adeptus Astartes
Adepta Sororitas

There may be one or two others about, but that's the bulk of them. Those would be the 'Priesthoods of the Imperium'.

Officio would work well as alternate to the Dempartmento.

malika
17-10-2006, 13:33
@Voronwe: Its weird that you still havent been able to log in yet, did you send Kage here a message about it? He is the admin, perhaps he can help you :) You really have some good ideas and views of the 40k universe, so having you joining us would and able to join in the madness would be great!:)

Voronwe[MQ]
17-10-2006, 13:41
@Malika: Thanks. Is it okay if I post any articles/finished ideas to you so you can post them (no, you needn't say it's not you that have written them - I don't care who gets the credit for it) on the ASP? It's okay if you say no.

Yeah, I know, though I suppose that none other yet has thought of the Navis Calculi (an 'order' - no, I'm not saying that it is made up of orders :) - of the Navis Nobilite that analyses navigation-computers inbuilt into warp engines, to put it short):D

I've spoke with Kage, and the account he nicely provided me with did sadly not work. I still think it's my e-mail and I'll fix it on thursday, as I'll go on a trip with my class tomorrow, so I won't have time then.

I am eager to join! What I am seeing there makes me thinks that it is here that the actuality of the 40k universe is forged through good ideas, views, debates etc!:)

@Xisor: Thanks for the critics, although you missed the Adeptus Custodes, Adeptus Titanicus (?), Adeptus Administratum and the Adeptus Ministorum - though you noted them before, so I should shut up, really. Departmento and Officio is by hindsight the most approriate term, thanks for the explained advice.

malika
17-10-2006, 14:29
@Malika: Thanks. Is it okay if I post any articles/finished ideas to you so you can post them (no, you needn't say it's not you that have written them - I don't care who gets the credit for it) on the ASP? It's okay if you say no.

Yeah, I know, though I suppose that none other yet has thought of the Navis Calculi (an 'order' - no, I'm not saying that it is made up of orders - of the Navis Nobilite that analyses navigation-computers inbuilt into warp engines, to put it short)

I've spoke with Kage, and the account he nicely provided me with did sadly not work. I still think it's my e-mail and I'll fix it on thursday, as I'll go on a trip with my class tomorrow, so I won't have time then.

I am eager to join! What I am seeing there makes me thinks that it is here that the actuality of the 40k universe is forged through good ideas, views, debates etc!
OKay Ive posted your version of the Imperial diplomat in that thread CELS made, and I did give you the credit for it since it is YOUR work. We are pretty strict on that, as in that you either take credit for your own work or to the person who produced it.

Voronwe[MQ]
17-10-2006, 14:44
Ah, I understand what you mean. Perhaps one could call it Specialorum (?) Subtilae Diplomatica, rooting their origins in directly after the 'Black Templar-incident' due to the brittle, perilous (?) state of the 'situation' (what english word am I seeking after? I know it's something with... uhm... case?) that the Adeptus Terra saw then, widening the field of expertise for the Departmento Emissarium? They could handle or participate in especially difficult and/or dangerous negotiations with very sensual (?) circumstances - just a proposition.

EDIT:
I didn't mean that you should post right this one (I meant in a more general sense, or am I writing the wrong thing again?) directly.:)

CELS
17-10-2006, 14:53
I voted 'excellent', obviously, since it's basically a different version of my own work, although I do feel that your execution of the idea has some potential for improvement. For instance, the name 'Subtilae Diplomatica' doesn't sound like an appropriate name for an Imperial organisation. Subtle diplomatics? It's diplomacy - subtlety is implied! ;)

I'd hate to come off as arrogant and biased, but after reading your article a few times, I personally feel that it doesn't really add very much that I didn't already write in mine, except of course for the parts where you go into detail about the challenges in training of the diplomat. I don't see why you'd want to write this down as an expansion to the Departmento Emissarium, because the purpose you describe is exactly the same that I attributed to the Emissarium. Negotiation and communication both between different Imperial 'forces' and between xenos and the Imperium as a whole.

Sorry that I couldn't be more helpful.

malika
17-10-2006, 14:55
Well, the aspect of training could perhaps be added in the article of the Departmento Emissarium, so soemthing like:

-what are they?

-what they do?

-history?

-how does one become one?

-?

Sorry for this kinda useless post.

Voronwe[MQ]
17-10-2006, 15:04
I voted 'excellent', obviously, since it's basically a different version of my own work, although I do feel that your execution of the idea has some potential for improvement. For instance, the name 'Subtilae Diplomatica' doesn't sound like an appropriate name for an Imperial organisation. Subtle diplomatics? It's diplomacy - subtlety is implied! ;)

I'd hate to come off as arrogant and biased, but after reading your article a few times, I personally feel that it doesn't really add very much that I didn't already write in mine, except of course for the parts where you go into detail about the challenges in training of the diplomat. I don't see why you'd want to write this down as an expansion to the Departmento Emissarium, because the purpose you describe is exactly the same that I attributed to the Emissarium. Negotiation and communication both between different Imperial 'forces' and between xenos and the Imperium as a whole.

Sorry that I couldn't be more helpful.

Ah, you didn't want to kill me. That's a good start, I suppose:) Well, you're right, the 'Subtilae Diplomatica' is a bit over-wasted, and some things is clearly bad. However, malika evaluated the meaning of one of my posts that he should post the ASD text on the ASP (which, of course, is not bad or stupid, so don't think I intend to be sarcastic or whatever), though it is far from hardly understandable, since I makes things a bit vague.:)

If you look through this page, you will see that I did not know about the Departmento Emissarium before malika told me about it. When he did, I began planning how one could merge a 'specialist' group into the Departmento Emissarium, working directly with the Subtilae Diplomatica and mostly changing names and removing things already mentioned clearly on the whole Departmento's article.


Well, the aspect of training could perhaps be added in the article of the Departmento Emissarium, so soemthing like:

-what are they?

-what they do?

-history?

-how does one become one?

-?

Sorry for this kinda useless post.

It's not useless, certainly. Though I don't have the time to propose or think about it hardly right now.:)

malika
17-10-2006, 15:07
Hmm...once again Malika's overenthousiasm causes somewhat of a fuss :p


It's not useless, certainly. Though I don't have the time to propose or think about it hardly right now.
Hmm hopefully when you have fixed your email after your trip we'll see your face on our forum as well :)

Voronwe[MQ]
17-10-2006, 15:15
Hmm...once again Malika's overenthousiasm causes somewhat of a fuss :p


Hmm hopefully when you have fixed your email after your trip we'll see your face on our forum as well :)

Who's overenthusiasm doesn't make things a fuss? I of anyone of six and a half billion people should know.:D

In fact I have another one that I can take from a friend. It's old and not used in a while, but with a bit of luck it might not be more than three months old.

CELLS, excuse me, I know it is I that should merge them effectively into the Departmento Emissarium if possible, thus making for a hell of a good background article on the ASP after a while, but I still asks you if you could copy the ASD info and glue it into Word and change (remove as little as possible - and perhaps add something to the DE - in my opinion) it. Still, you could introduce the rank Casus into it as a part of the 'Specialorum Subtilae' (pig latin and just a fast brewed up one, I know, but Subtilae might fit as when there is already about diplomatics, then subtletly in a name of a specialist group intends it is somewhat of crisis or brittle negotiations they handle).

schoon
17-10-2006, 16:09
I don't object to the concept here, but I doubt it would be an Adeptus organization, nor even necessarily operate at above a local level.

The Imperium is generally neither subtle nor diplomatic.

Voronwe[MQ]
17-10-2006, 16:27
I don't object to the concept here, but I doubt it would be an Adeptus organization, nor even necessarily operate at above a local level.

The Imperium is generally neither subtle nor diplomatic.

You forgets yourself, schoon. The Imperium is authoritarian and hierarchal, and in the 'upper echelons' (as they sees it) of society, intrigues is almost as normal to a person as breathing is, and shisms is often (logically) solved with subtletly before open confrontations occurs. As we, naturally (and thankfully), mostly see the Imperium's unsubtle war-methods in response of things, it might be easy for some to forgot to read behind the lines and view things realistically.

No insult intended, I'm just not subtle myself.;)

EDIT:
It's very funny to see how many that have voted that I should gut myself. :D

Mr Zephy
17-10-2006, 16:37
I'm not sure of the whole "smelling pheremomes and smells generally to read emotions" thing, as it seems a bit elegant and easy for the imperium to be doing it (lol). However, bionic implants that read chemical compositions and facial features and wires leading into the two protagonists to register brain patterns seems more gothic and imperial. Just my vote. (I vote great btw because the idea as a whole is good.)

Voronwe[MQ]
17-10-2006, 16:46
Hm, my idea was that the deep hypno-therapies did that, as with that harbour clerk in Legacy, but you're right: if anyone (well, I've already done so, but you won't see it in a while since I have no scanner and it's not complete yet) draws a diplomat, he or she should have what you described.

CELS
17-10-2006, 19:35
;1014775']Ah, you didn't want to kill me. That's a good start, I suppose. Well, you're right, the 'Subtilae Diplomatica' is a bit over-wasted, and some things is clearly bad. However, malika evaluated the meaning of one of my posts that he should post the ASD text on the ASP (which, of course, is not bad or stupid, so don't think I intend to be sarcastic or whatever), though it is far from hardly understandable, since I makes things a bit vague.
I wouldn't worry about it. In the Anargo Sector Project, we often present links or quotes on our forum, if we spot something on the internet that we feel could be interesting to incoorporate or consider for our own project.


;1014775']If you look through this page, you will see that I did not know about the Departmento Emissarium before malika told me about it. When he did, I began planning how one could merge a 'specialist' group into the Departmento Emissarium, working directly with the Subtilae Diplomatica and mostly changing names and removing things already mentioned clearly on the whole Departmento's article.
Oh, I believe you. And the idea of introducing a specialist division into the Emissary department is a good one, really.


;1014799']CELLS, excuse me, I know it is I that should merge them effectively into the Departmento Emissarium if possible, thus making for a hell of a good background article on the ASP after a while, but I still asks you if you could copy the ASD info and glue it into Word and change (remove as little as possible - and perhaps add something to the DE - in my opinion) it.
The problem is that as it stands, your idea can't really be used as a division of the department I described, because we're basically talking about the same organisation, except we're describing it differently. For the Divisio Diplomati Peritae or Divisio Diplomati Subtilis (or whatever you want to call it) to exist, it must have something that sets it apart from other Emissaries. What do you propose? That they are simply better? As I see it, there's no need to make a seperate division for the good ones. It's like the Iterators in the Great Crusade. They were all called Iterators, but the good ones were seperated simply by virtue of their reputation.

And saying that these are special because they're more subtle than other Emissaries doesn't make much sense to me either. If you read the short story before my article, it should show you that I intended for Emissaries to be capable of more than just declaring war and summoning the Imperial Guard.

If anything, I would say that the Departmento Emissarium would most likely be divided up into different divisions based on who the Emissaries are trained to deal with. Some might specialise in dealing with aliens, for example, whilst other specialise in dealing with the Mechanicus, or the Imperial Commanders of different worlds, etc. Obviously, dealing with any faction requires a great amount of preperation and knowledge, so this kind of specialty seems useful.


;1014799']Still, you could introduce the rank Casus into it as a part of the 'Specialorum Subtilae' (pig latin and just a fast brewed up one, I know, but Subtilae might fit as when there is already about diplomatics, then subtletly in a name of a specialist group intends it is somewhat of crisis or brittle negotiations they handle).
What is the point of having the rank 'Casus'? And again, as with real life situations and the Iterators of the Great Crusade, I imagine they'd just use their best diplomats for the most delicate and critical situations. I mean, the American diplomat in China doesn't come from Subtle Tactics Division of the American Embassy. He or she is just an experienced and taleneted diplomat.


;1014965']You forgets yourself, schoon. The Imperium is authoritarian and hierarchal, and in the 'upper echelons' (as they sees it) of society, intrigues is almost as normal to a person as breathing is, and shisms is often (logically) solved with subtletly before open confrontations occurs. As we, naturally (and thankfully), mostly see the Imperium's unsubtle war-methods in response of things, it might be easy for some to forgot to read behind the lines and view things realistically.
Hear, hear. A small part of this intrigue is seen in the novel Wolfblade, if I recall correctly, which portrays the conspiracies of navigator houses on Terra, among other things.


;1014965']
It's very funny to see how many that have voted that I should gut myself. :D
Well, it's probably because your text didn't contain any gory images of Space Marines with bolterz!!11 :p

Voronwe[MQ]
17-10-2006, 19:45
I wouldn't worry about it. In the Anargo Sector Project, we often present links or quotes on our forum, if we spot something on the internet that we feel could be interesting to incoorporate or consider for our own project.


Oh, I believe you. And the idea of introducing a specialist division into the Emissary department is a good one, really.


The problem is that as it stands, your idea can't really be used as a division of the department I described, because we're basically talking about the same organisation, except we're describing it differently. For the Divisio Diplomati Peritae or Divisio Diplomati Subtilis (or whatever you want to call it) to exist, it must have something that sets it apart from other Emissaries. What do you propose? That they are simply better? As I see it, there's no need to make a seperate division for the good ones. It's like the Iterators in the Great Crusade. They were all called Iterators, but the good ones were seperated simply by virtue of their reputation.

And saying that these are special because they're more subtle than other Emissaries doesn't make much sense to me either. If you read the short story before my article, it should show you that I intended for Emissaries to be capable of more than just declaring war and summoning the Imperial Guard.

If anything, I would say that the Departmento Emissarium would most likely be divided up into different divisions based on who the Emissaries are trained to deal with. Some might specialise in dealing with aliens, for example, whilst other specialise in dealing with the Mechanicus, or the Imperial Commanders of different worlds, etc. Obviously, dealing with any faction requires a great amount of preperation and knowledge, so this kind of specialty seems useful.


What is the point of having the rank 'Casus'? And again, as with real life situations and the Iterators of the Great Crusade, I imagine they'd just use their best diplomats for the most delicate and critical situations. I mean, the American diplomat in China doesn't come from Subtle Tactics Division of the American Embassy. He or she is just an experienced and taleneted diplomat.


Hear, hear. A small part of this intrigue is seen in the novel Wolfblade, if I recall correctly, which portrays the conspiracies of navigator houses on Terra, among other things.


Well, it's probably because your text didn't contain any gory images of Space Marines with bolterz!!11 :p

I will edit or post in two days; I promise.

Well, I shall try to make it an special part of it, and it was stupid of me to ask (though I never learns, so I are not surprised by myself). :p

schoon
18-10-2006, 16:07
;1014965']You forgets yourself, schoon. The Imperium is authoritarian and hierarchal, and in the 'upper echelons' (as they sees it) of society, intrigues is almost as normal to a person as breathing is, and shisms is often (logically) solved with subtletly before open confrontations occurs. As we, naturally (and thankfully), mostly see the Imperium's unsubtle war-methods in response of things, it might be easy for some to forgot to read behind the lines and view things realistically.Oh, I'm not saying that the Imperium isn't full of intrigue. I'm saying that it tends to sort itself out by more Machiavellian/Darwinian means rather than having a group of arbitrators smoothing out the wrinkles.

On the other hand, for external dealings, I could entirely see this as a viable institution.

Voronwe[MQ]
19-10-2006, 09:33
Oh, I'm not saying that the Imperium isn't full of intrigue. I'm saying that it tends to sort itself out by more Machiavellian/Darwinian means rather than having a group of arbitrators smoothing out the wrinkles.

On the other hand, for external dealings, I could entirely see this as a viable institution.

Ah, I'm sorry; should have understand you meant it. It's entirely true, and I haven't yet expanded them (or perhaps I won't, or at least not too radically, as I'm workn'ing with intertwining them with the Departmento Emissarium) to make them look more Machiavellian, since I'm good with war, but bad with subtletly.

I'll supposedly get online on the ASP later this day.

EDIT:
Excuse me for this, but I'm too lazy to copy it on a disc.

Observati Puritaex (members, plural: Observati Puritaes) ultra-religious, secret group

Inexaggerators: A few of the tech-priests that have a more practical and pragmatic outlook at technology and science that shows certain signs of being able to accept the sect’s ideas and then respect its pacific, long-term progressive and ultra-secret policy are chosen and, over long periods of time, slowly approached. Long, careful, thorough research work and repeated evaluation of possible future members before initiation. They abandon rapidly - by gentle ways in order to avoid revealing something unintentional and smooth questions out – individuals that for varying background reasons appear to harbour hatred or distaste toward the state of the Cult Mechanicus and its dogmas, since bitterness or self-righteousness might lead to confrontative – in the worst case even demagogical arguments, as not even the logical members of the Adeptus Mechanicus are immune to such simplifications and naïveties – views or rash acts amongst other inexaggerators; and of course the person in question. Though

Bolters - a study into the internal, external and terminal ballistics of the most iconic weapon of the 41st millennium.

1) Classification.
The ‘Bolter’ family is wide and diverse, ranging from the Bolt Pistol, the standard side arm of the Adeptus Astartes to the Vulcan Mega Bolter, a Titan mounted anti infantry weapon. What can be said to link all of these different weapon system? The key component in any Bolter class weapon is its ammunition. Bolt shells, regardless of their calibre, contain a micro rocket motor and a warhead (of many designs), making them more akin to a rocket propelled micro-grenade than a conventional bullet or artillery shell. Calibres of Bolt shells vary according to the weapon systems using them. The smallest shell of note was then 12.5mm micro deluxe round used in custom Bolt Pistols for high ranking Imperial Guard officers, the largest was 125mm ‘Vulcan Delta IV’ as used in the Mars D4 pattern Mega Bolter.
We shall be focussing on the classic bolter in this article, yet even this weapon is often misclassified by scholars, being called everything from a rifle to a sub machine gun and everything else.
Firstly a rifle is such named due to its ‘rifled’ barrel, the adding of spiral grooves to the barrel to impart spin on the round, stabilising it in flight. Many Bolters are smooth bore, so calling it a rifle would be incorrect.
A sub-machinegun is generally defined as an automatic weapon firing a pistol cartridge. As the Bolter fires its own, unique rounds, this can not also be correct.
The most commonly accepted definition is that of a ‘Heavy Assault Carbine’. Carbines, generally, have been shorter and lighter than rifles, firing a lighter cartridge to reduce felt recoil. The Bolter fits into this category with its shorter barrel and lighter recoil (for its calibre). Bolter rounds are certainly not less powerful than regular autogun rounds but due to the method of propulsion a classic bolter would produce less recoil as there is no charge to propel it out of the barrel, only its own rocket. The ‘Heavy Assault’ prefix to the carbine is in reference to the Bolters heavy rounds and sustained fire capability.

If you look at the normal usage of a Bolter by the Adeptus Astartes you will find that is generally used in the same situations the would call for Carbines for the Imperial Guard: shorter range engagements where the rapid deployment of sustained fire is more important than long ranged, accurately placed single shots.
2: Ammunition.
It is a common error to think that Bolters only come in a single calibre, or even a small range of calibres. A logistics survey of the 7th Darius crusade in M38 was fortunate enough to be given permission to inspect the weapons of an Imperial Fists Demi-Company (half of the esteemed 1st company, no less!) This survey revealed that most of the Marines carried their own, personal, weapon that had been in their use for an average of 35 years and had been in use by the chapter for an average of 120 years. The oldest weapon was forged in M34 (though had been modified many times) and the newest weapon was less than 3 years old (Terran Standard) having only just completed its ritual blessings and firing ceremonies and being used for the first time in battle. Between this range of weapons over two dozen different cartridges were present varying in calibre, length, weight and other characteristics. Many Marines carried Bolt Pistols that used the same calibre Bolt Shell as their Bolters (with both weapons accepting the long standard magazines and the shorted ‘pistol’ magazines) though one individual was found to be carrying 3 different shells with him, one for his rifle and one each for a pair of Bolt Pistols given to him by his Captain 50 years ago in recognition for an undisclosed act of valour. It would appear that the inconvenience of supplying units with no standard ammunition is not an issue of the Adeptus Astartes, instead they rely of the bond between each warrior and his own weapons.
It has been found that for each calibre of infantry weight Bolt Shell manufactured there will generally be the full spread of Bolt Weapons able to fire it, from the Bolt Pistol through the Bolter and Storm Bolter all the way to the Heavy Bolters. The calibres found varied from the (previously mentioned) 12.5mm micro deluxe (generally only found in Bolt Pistols and gatling format Heavy Bolters) through to the 30mm Obliterator class shell (found in the relic weapon from M34). The 3 most common calibres were the 19mm Mars pattern (also called the .75), the 17.5mm Wolf (both long and short) and the 20mm Armageddon cased round.
As mentioned there were often more than 1 Bolt Shell in a given category, most commonly a longer and shorter version (equivalent to regular and ‘Magnum’ shells for hand guns) and in some instances there were cased and caseless ammunition.

This brings in another common misconception about Bolter ammunition, that is always caseless. This will be explained in the next section.
3: Internal and external ballistics.
As has already been mentioned the defining characteristics of a Bolt Shell is the rocket base and a warhead capability. This rocket base is the defining characteristic of the flight of the Bolt Shell (its external ballistics).
The advantage of a gyro jet round is that it allows the weapon to fire a relatively heavy round with little or no recoil, allowing a soldier to carry a weapon for more powerful than normally possible. It is because of this that some Imperial Guard officers are able to carry the weapons, all be it in much lighter calibres than the soldiers of the Adeptus Astartes.
The firing cycle of a classic Bolter is fairly simple, the mini rocket in the shell is electronically activated by the pulling of the weapon's trigger. The rocket ignites providing thrust which accelerates the round out of the weapons barrel and towards the enemy. The 19mm Wolf round has a rocket rated at 15Kj meaning it increases the kinetic energy of the round by around 30000 Joules per second. The rocket burns for 1 seconds meaning at the end of the burn cycle the round has 30 KJ of energy, meaning the 125 gram shell is travelling at almost 700 meters per second.
The round will be stabilised in one of 3 ways, either by rifling on the barrel (which is rare), by retractable fins that spring from the round when it has left the barrel or, most commonly, by the angle of the jets which propel it.
One issue with gyrojets is that at very short ranges there is not enough time to allow the round to accelerate to a useful velocity. It takes over 450 meters for the round mentioned above to reach its maximum velocity. At ranges of 100m (quite common for the close range fighting Marines often have to undertake) the round has only accelerated to around 415 meters per second and thus will have only a third of its final kinetic energy. At ranges of 10m, for room to room fighting, the shell is travelling at under 200 meters per second with less than a twelfth of its maximum energy.
As a result many Bolter weapons systems use a hybrid cartridges which contain both a gyrojet and a normal powder charge. These weapons often use cased ammunition to contain the charge though some weapons use solid blocks of propellant and remain uncased. Due to the charge in the case the Bolt Shell will carry less propellant, typically burning for half the time of a classic Bolt Shell (around half a second).
To get any noticeable muzzle velocity for such a heavy round a considerable charge is needed and as a result only the enhances strength of a Space Marine is enough to use these weapons, but as very short range fighting is their speciality it is very common to see them use cased bolter ammunition.
A typical cased Bolt Shell might have a muzzle velocity of around 500 meters per second, giving the weapon formidable punch and point blank range (thought the recoil this produces is around 8 times that of an autogun, completely unmanageable for an infantry weapon if it were not for the Space Marines’ enhanced strength and Power Armour). With this initial boost the round will have achieved its maximum velocity (700 meters per second, slightly less than the classic Bolter Round) in only 300 and at 10m will have over 6.5 times the energy of a classic bolter round.
The use of the cased bolter rounds sacrifices maximum velocity/energy and low recoil against effectiveness at short ranges. Pressing the barrel of a bolter armed with classic gyrojet only Bolt Shells to the head of an enemy will result in only mild bruising (or catastrophic barrel damage if the round detonated upon impact). With a cased round there is enough velocity to cause horrific injuries even at point blank range but the massively increased recoil makes the weapon harder to use at anything over a hundred meters range. By balancing the amount of propellant in the case and the amount of fuel in the Bolt Shell it is possible to custom build a set of ammunition with ideal ballistic characteristics for a specific mission.