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Rodzaju
16-10-2006, 19:45
Almost certainly a real noobie question, but:

What is this 'Fluff Bible' I have seen referenced?
Where can I find a copy?

Hideous Loon
16-10-2006, 19:51
The Fluff Bible does not exist. It just doesn't. Especially not if you Google it.

From a neutral POV, the Fluff Bible (however, how one can speak of a clearly non-existant thing, is beyond me) is a webpage/document that contains fluff on every aspect of WH40,000. Useful if you want info on a specific, but are reluctant to pay for it.

From GW's POV, it is an abomination that must be shot on sight. Amen.

Rodzaju
16-10-2006, 19:57
I see.

Oh well, never mind

;)

Kage2020
16-10-2006, 23:42
And the one that you find by Google - sorry, that you don't find - isn't actually the "'Fluff' Bible". Just forget about it, though. It's horrendously illegal and GW stamps on you for it, so it's probably best not to even discuss it on these forums. Perhaps best for a Mod to lock this thread...

Kage

Commissar Rowe
17-10-2006, 15:40
Lets just say from a bitter veteran's perspective of it, it is one of the few documents that can land an innocent (and BIG) homemade fluff-site in BIG trouble with GW legal simply by dint of third-party implication of ownership...

Me...?
Bitter...?
No of course not...!!!

dean
17-10-2006, 16:23
Thou shalt not mention the abomination.

On a change of subject has anybody seen Brusilov? I miss having him tell me I am wrong.

DogmaRaider
17-10-2006, 17:07
To start off I do not endorse the copying of copyrighted material and I am not a fluff god.

First: This is NOT a stupid question.

Second: I wouldn't call it a "Fluff Bible". When you put a hard-line on something like this, it ticks everyone off (I'm not ticked off) and starts flame wars out the wahzoo. People are probably going to preach from this type of book or web site or whatever and they love to smack people over the head with it. I would call it a "guide" or something less "you must obey this or you are wrong!" sounding.

Third: Don't be afraid to talk about it and itís not an abomination. I see it more as an IP problem. No one wants to admit that they would LOVE one online source that everyone could work from and refer to for everything in the 40K universe. This would stop all of the senseless inconsistent fluff arguments.

Unfortunately the only people that have any authority over the fluff are GW and they're not willing to put the fluff and codices online. I think they do this to obviously protect their business. The instant things in 40K become electronic, they're going to be copied and spread all over the place and right now there is no consistent electronic way to prevent people from doing this. I certainly would pay for a service like this as it would be a great help to everyone.

To fill the void, I use the Lexicanum (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page) which is probably the closest thing youíre going to get to something like this. Its not complete but they're working very hard to fill the gaps and voids in the material they can and I totally encourage them to continue. They're doing a great job!

Fourth: I've found that in this game universe, people hate definitions. They believe that it stifles creativity by creating a hard "yes/no" line. I take a different opinion and see fluff as a tool to create armies or people or characters for my army. The fluff provides a great guide but shouldn't be considered a "rules set" for creating things in the universe. This universe has endless variety just like ours and no one should be considered the Inquisition for things that other people create.

Kegluneq
17-10-2006, 19:27
Wikipedia is probably fine for anyone wanting a basic explanation of character histories and the like. I think I read a colossal text version of the fluff bible a while back, when I was an utter beginner to the 40k universe, and it helped me a lot in understanding and appreciating the story. Not, of course, that I would recommend it over reading the myriad codices and rulebooks out there...

Kage2020
17-10-2006, 22:53
I wouldn't call it a "Fluff Bible". When you put a hard-line on something like this, it ticks everyone off (I'm not ticked off) and starts flame wars out the wahzoo. People are probably going to preach from this type of book or web site or whatever and they love to smack people over the head with it. I would call it a "guide" or something less "you must obey this or you are wrong!" sounding.
The original "'Fluff' Bible" was a composite of the background of a huge amount of codices and rulebooks. It therefore contained the canonical information that most people take as gospel. Ergo the "preaching". With that said, it presented them all without regard to edition, so in that regard it merely assumed that you were not a Revisionist.


This would stop all of the senseless inconsistent fluff arguments.
I would strongly doubt that.


The instant things in 40K become electronic, they're going to be copied and spread all over the place and right now there is no consistent electronic way to prevent people from doing this.
Indeed. Of course, most GW materials are available electronically, though they are for the most part illegal.


To fill the void, I use the Lexicanum (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page) which is probably the closest thing youíre going to get to something like this.
Another version of Wikipedia, just with more specific criteria.


I've found that in this game universe, people hate definitions.
I don't. I refer to it as a "framework of interpretation" that, ultimately, directs and drives creativity rather than allowing the pathetic response of, "On it depends on what <whatever> you're talking about." Well, with certain qualifications, of course.

Kage

Drogmir
18-10-2006, 00:08
What the hell are you guys talking about?

I may be new sorta (5 years+) but I've never heard of this fluff bible

What is it? The ultimate history book on 40K?

dean
18-10-2006, 00:33
Yes, please read all the thread.


The original "'Fluff' Bible" was a composite of the background of a huge amount of codices and rulebooks. It therefore contained the canonical information that most people take as gospel. Ergo the "preaching". With that said, it presented them all without regard to edition, so in that regard it merely assumed that you were not a Revisionist.


It was also quite sizeable. 600 to 700 pages in a text format.

Puffin Magician
18-10-2006, 00:55
...the Lexicanum is probably the closest thing you’re going to get. It's not complete but they're working very hard with the material they can. They're doing a great job!I'm not completely certain about Wikipedia's [or offshoot -edias] policy on Copyrights, but I know the Star Wars Wookiepedia has lots of information from publications [books, technical manuals, etc] as well as scans of various comic books. If they're allowed to do that, why aren't Lexicanum submitters?

I think that the line "...and the boys upstairs wanna see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free" from Tom Petty's The Last Dj covers GW's position on the Fluff Bible with total accuracy. It's about money, and nothing more.

Commissar Rowe
18-10-2006, 16:47
What the hell are you guys talking about?

I may be new sorta (5 years+) but I've never heard of this fluff bible

What is it? The ultimate history book on 40K?

Practically every single piece of published fluff from "Rogue Trader" up to several of the 2nd Ed codexes (Including several WD articles) all compiled into a single HUGE text document.

We are talking stuff ranging from the Adeptus Mechanics Electro Priests through to Zoats (Yay an A-Z)

GW get pissy about it because under thier incredibly well-written IP and OOP policies, it is a potential excuse for a lawsuit. If you have a copy of the FB, then you have willingly downloaded/recieved an electronic file containing Out-of-Print Material that is still the exclusive property of GW.

Basically, it could be considered the equivalent of buying the new Eldar Codex, scanning every page in and then emailing the PDF to everyone you know.

The thing that has me intirgued is that GW is one of the few corporate entities that has such powerful copyright protection over thier OOP material. In many countries, a document that is listed as OOP instantly becomes Public Domain.

It was the assumption on this ruling that led to me having a DL link to the mighty tome on my old website "Codex Cimmerius" which led to it's forced closure in 2001...

t-tauri
18-10-2006, 17:41
The thing that has me intirgued is that GW is one of the few corporate entities that has such powerful copyright protection over thier OOP material. In many countries, a document that is listed as OOP instantly becomes Public Domain.
GW have the same copyright protection as everyone else (except possibly Disney...). It used to be IIRC 50 years after publication (or death of a single author) but as Disney's first Mickey Mouse stuff came near the deadline the US government extended it.

The problem for GW is if they allow the fluff bible to proliferate they can conceivably lose their copyright on all the material in it for failing to take action to protect it. Since the fluff bible is basically all the 40k background that would be pretty near commercial suicide. Hence they set the rabid dogs on any site hosting it.

The only real way for it to get out is if GW themselves made it available for download with all their disclaimers or if someone could negotiate with GW legal for the right to allow downloads still with all the legal disclaimers attached.

Kage2020
18-10-2006, 22:28
It's a shame, really. The more information that GW "shares" electronically the more people tend to get intrigued. Then again, the bad thing about letting people have access to the older material is that they recognise when GW pull a "copy/paste". Reading through some of the 4e Codex Eldar comes pretty close to that... ;)

(Of course, the counter argument to that is that there are only so many ways that you can write a thing... :D)

Kage

Khaine's Messenger
19-10-2006, 00:27
It's a shame, really. The more information that GW "shares" electronically the more people tend to get intrigued.

Perhaps. I'd think that, if a lot of their OOP material simply wasn't OOP (and of course, well-edited and formatted), there wouldn't be much demand for the copyright-breaking tome. It's not a matter of copy/paste (although discovering the king is naked is a distinct possibility), but that a lot of the old background was really cool, and I'd like to have a hard-copy I didn't have to buy off eBay (lovely institution that it is).


(Of course, the counter argument to that is that there are only so many ways that you can write a thing... :D)

Which isn't a very good counter-argument, imho. Given that the Tau and the Necrons are basically "totally new" and other codices/sources simply lack a lot of older details, "only so many ways" only flies when they're talking about codices and making sure everything fits. Which is fair, since the background as it stands primarily exists to prop up the wargame, but honestly....

Nazguire
19-10-2006, 01:26
GW's public explanation is that if they don't follow up on 'IP breaches' then if someone changes something in the background, they won't be able to do so much about it.
Unofficially, I believe it is simply to keep a monopoly on their products (makes sense really, it is their product) by forcing someone to spend obscene amounts of money to gain a small 'cut and paste' of what you want to read.

Rodzaju
19-10-2006, 19:44
My main rant about the IP policy is all the really great oop games that they no longer support. GW are no longer making money from them, so they wouldn't be losing out if these were relaxed.
Unless they are thinking about reviving them someday.....
.... Now I've gone & got my hopes up.

Morgrad
20-10-2006, 00:11
Well, you can't really blame them for wanting to make money of the stuff they made up - but on the other hand, I think a lot of the old fluff would drive a lot of people newly into the game into tons of conversions and new army ideas, which would generate more sales for them.

GW has always had really weird business ideas, many of them counter-productive - but sadly, there's not much we can do about it.

malika
20-10-2006, 00:21
Why dont they just use a Russian server or something for a fluff bible...GW can hardly do anything then, IIRC Russia had way less strict IP laws...especially if you look at the amount of sites from where you can download entire books! :eek:

Nazguire
20-10-2006, 01:17
Why dont they just use a Russian server or something for a fluff bible...GW can hardly do anything then, IIRC Russia had way less strict IP laws...especially if you look at the amount of sites from where you can download entire books! :eek:

Already thought of, a Red Elf resides on a Russian server. :D

Kage2020
20-10-2006, 17:47
A very slow server, that... couldn't even be bothered to wait for anything to appear! :D

Kage