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Kiro
30-06-2005, 14:24
I was flipping through the big =I= rulebook, and the Inquisition codexes the other night, and it got me thinking: would an Inquisitor ever put aliens on trial? I mean look at it this way, according to Imperial doctrine, aliens are blaspheming, heretical wretches (among other things) so does that mean they would be punished like any old heretical human? Example scenario: the Tau set up colony on a sparsely populated human world on the far, far reaches of the Tau Empire. Through some reason or the other, the humans are undefended, they have no garrison, and the colonists have no weapons. Inevitably, the Tau will try to convert the humans to serve the Tau'Va, with some zealous Imperial Preacher perhaps summoning aid from the Imperium. Now, intercepting the distress call, an Inquisitor and his retinue turn up, and investigate things. After a hard fought battle, the small Fire Warrior garrison is wiped out, leaving a Tau colony unprotected. As well as those humans who converted to the Tau'Va, would the Inquisitor try the Tau colonists for blasphemy, or would they just be executed? Swap the Tau for any other race if you like, but what do you think?

edit: I'm not talking about a fair trial. I mean, will the Inquisitor set up a show trial, or tell the alien that he must be executed for his "crimes".

Melchor
30-06-2005, 14:27
They would be executed by all but the most radical inquisitors I guess. Xenos are blasphemers by their very nature instead of by acts or thoughts.

They must be purged! :chrome:

Sephiroth
30-06-2005, 14:28
Their non-human, ergo their very exsistance is a blasphemy.

If the Imperium found a world of human-like beings with violet-skin and silver-hair, who lived a normadic and peaceful lifestyle, and offered to share their world with the 'star-wanderers' for nothing in return... the Imperium would still wipe them out, because their aliens.

Good guys, they ain't. ;)

x-esiv-4c
30-06-2005, 14:28
The Imperium dictates justice with an iron fist. I don't think the aliens would stand trial, more likely they would be eradicated with extreme prejudice and the "conversion" would be seen as a hostile attempt on the Imperium and it's faith structure. I doubt trial is ever given to aliens. If an alien is on trial that means the Imperium has deemed that said Xeno has done something wrong and since the Imperium isn't the most leniant of places they would probably see only one fit course of action.

Iracundus
30-06-2005, 14:38
Actually that example of the peaceful alien natives did appear once in a GW rulebook though I forget what edition it was. Basically some Imperial missionaries were sent down to a planet and came back being the ones converted to the natives' philosophy of love, peace and tolerance.
The aliens were denounced as dangerous subversives by the other Imperials and exterminated.

People need to remember that the Imperium has never at any point been tolerant, not even when it was led directly by the Emperor before the Heresy.

Kiro
30-06-2005, 14:47
Nooooooooo. You're all misunderstanding. I don't think for an instant that the trial would be in any way, shape or form just! What I want to know is if the Inquisitor would bother with some form of show trial, or if procedure dictates the Inquisitor lets the alien know he's guilty of blasphemy and that he will be executed for his "crimes".

Bruen
30-06-2005, 14:56
Nooooooooo. You're all misunderstanding. I don't think for an instant that the trial would be in any way, shape or form just! What I want to know is if the Inquisitor would bother with some form of show trial, or if procedure dictates the Inquisitor lets the alien know he's guilty of blasphemy and that he will be executed for his "crimes".

What would be the purpose of a trial? All it would do would be to spread knowledge of the alien race to more people.

Since the Imperium views all aliends as heretics this would be a bad thing, the inquisitor would just kill them and bury the evidence.

Remeber the Inquisitions motto - "Tell noone, and tell them nothing!".

Tom - Heretic
30-06-2005, 15:05
No, they'd just give them a cigar and a wall to stand against.

Though it's given me a good idea for some praetorian fluff :).

x-esiv-4c
30-06-2005, 15:06
Praetorian fluff not based on hte movie: "Zulu" ???? heresey!

Kiro
30-06-2005, 15:08
What would be the purpose of a trial? All it would do would be to spread knowledge of the alien race to more people.

Since the Imperium views all aliends as heretics this would be a bad thing, the inquisitor would just kill them and bury the evidence.

Remeber the Inquisitions motto - "Tell noone, and tell them nothing!".

D'oh, not a great big publicised trial. I mean something as simple as sticking them in a stockade, telling them they're guilty of blasphemy, then frying them.
Routine. I'm talking about routine and procedure.

Melchor
30-06-2005, 15:14
If they're going to find the alien guilty anyway (and the buggers are ALWAYS guilty :evilgrin: ), why waste time for a trial?

Lord-Warlock
30-06-2005, 15:14
As the saying goes, "He who allows the alien to live shares its crime of existence."

I suspect there would be an interrogation of all the culprits involved - and any Ethereals captured would likely undergo an Ordo Xenos dissection - to learn of Tau worlds and customs et al. Any human renegades would be more likely to undergo a trial, though.

x-esiv-4c
30-06-2005, 15:18
I think all the trial an alien gets is:

"With or without a blindfold".

Brother Othorio
30-06-2005, 15:29
If they're going to find the alien guilty anyway (and the buggers are ALWAYS guilty :evilgrin: ), why waste time for a trial?

so that the faithful masses can sleep safely in their beds after having seen justice being done of course! :D (so that they can awake fully refreshed in the morning ready to carry out their days work for the benefit of the Emperor and Mankind to the best of their ability)

Tom - Heretic
30-06-2005, 15:29
Praetorian fluff not based on hte movie: "Zulu" ???? heresey!

By the book means by the book. This means that even if it's an ork is still gets a trial, even if it's like this

*row of orks stood by a wall, restrained by big old chains. Commissar fonbeck walks down the line, asking the same question*

" are you an Ork?"
"Yer"
blam!

" are you an Ork?"
"Yer"
blam!

" are you an Ork?"
"Yer"
blam!

" are you an Ork?"
"Yer"
blam!

Talkie Toaster
30-06-2005, 15:30
D'oh, not a great big publicised trial. I mean something as simple as sticking them in a stockade, telling them they're guilty of blasphemy, then frying them.
Routine. I'm talking about routine and procedure.
That would mean that the Inquisition would have to capture the aliens in the first place, which is highly unlikely. they'd just kill them on the battlefield, even if they surrendered. If the Inquisition did deem it neccessary to capture an alien, they would probably have reasons for it that wouldn't make a public trial the best idea.

McMullet
30-06-2005, 15:53
By the book means by the book. This means that even if it's an ork is still gets a trial, even if it's like this

*row of orks stood by a wall, restrained by big old chains. Commissar fonbeck walks down the line, asking the same question*

" are you an Ork?"
"Yer"
blam!

" are you an Ork?"
"Yer"
blam!

" are you an Ork?"
"Yer"
blam!

" are you an Ork?"
"Yer"
blam!


"Are you a Tau?"
"Er.... No!"
"Really? You look an awful lot like a Tau to me..."
"Nope, I'm a human."
"Honest?"
"Yep, I'm not a Tau, nosiree, bob!"
"So, you're a human then?"
"Yeah."
[muted discussion with aides]
"I find the accused guilty of being a Tau"
blam!

It seems a bit daft putting them on trial to find them guilty of being aliens, because they obviously are aliens. But they might put them on trial if they'd committed other crimes, such as contradicting imperial creed or whatever.

x-esiv-4c
30-06-2005, 16:02
By the book means by the book. This means that even if it's an ork is still gets a trial, even if it's like this

*row of orks stood by a wall, restrained by big old chains. Commissar fonbeck walks down the line, asking the same question*

" are you an Ork?"
"Yer"
blam!

" are you an Ork?"
"Yer"
blam!

" are you an Ork?"
"Yer"
blam!

" are you an Ork?"
"Yer"
blam!





Hehehehe, that got me laughing! :D Imperial justice, nothing quite like it!

Sikkukkut
30-06-2005, 16:04
Well, Commissars I don't know about - to the Guard the elimination of Xenos is a simple military objective. Strange and elaborate concepts like trials would be more the sort of thing an Inquisitor would get into, and given the range of personalities, ideas and methods Inquisitors employ a trial might not be out of the question. I can imagine an Inquisitor hung up on the black letter of procedural doctrine having captive xenos paraded past him on their way to the firing squads, saying as a formality "guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty..." Or an Inquisitor (or even an Ecclesiarchal or Administratum propaganda officer) putting on a great ceremonial show-trial, as Othorio mentioned, to show the citizens assembled in the city square and watching over the pict-displays that the blasphemous aliens are being made to pay for their crimes.

ZigZagMan
30-06-2005, 16:21
I could see the inqusitor going up telling the aliens that they are Blasphamy personified (probably in his own laungage, leaving the Xenos looking around mystified), and then sending in a purgation squad

ZigZagMan
30-06-2005, 16:24
"Are you a Tau?"
"Er.... No!"
"Really? You look an awful lot like a Tau to me..."
"Nope, I'm a human."
"Honest?"
"Yep, I'm not a Tau, nosiree, bob!"
"So, you're a human then?"
"Yeah."
[muted discussion with aides]
"I find the accused guilty of being a Tau"
blam!



More like:
[muted discussion with aides]
"I find the accused guilty of being a Mutant, kill him anyway!"

Lord-Warlock
30-06-2005, 17:07
I think the problem with deciding whether to put someone on trial or not is his position. Regular Alfred Pontius would, if caught dealing with the Tau, be shot immediately - Planetary Governor Hananiel Veredii Palatis VI would probably get his trial, with the best advocate money could buy and the Inquisition presiding and accusing (basically, Hereticus). Guard members and other Imperial servants would be court martialled/tried by their own organisations, quite possibly posthumously if the people discovering them were hardliners.

Tau, as I've said - nothing for them but interrogation and then death by dissection.

Inquisitor Samos
30-06-2005, 17:15
An Imperial Inquisitor, especially one of a "Puritan" outlook, if faced with the example situation given, in my opinion would say:

"Why waste time on a trial for xenos???

Venio, video, exstinguo."

nurglich
02-07-2005, 22:39
Its funny how the range of imperial mini's are all heroic and pure, but reality wise they are (apart from obvious races) as evil and paranoid as say chaos in all forms

Bmaxwell
14-10-2005, 02:27
I allways thought that was funny but then again the entire 40k universe is nasty hitler would seem like a nice guy compared to alot of them

Lord Balor
14-10-2005, 02:46
The Imperium is not quite a fascist Germany or even a communist soviet union, but rather a Machiavellian institute with a very heavy feudal undertone. The Imperium does what it does in order to survive and sustain its dominance over the galaxy. It deals with political realities like the fact that its easier to commit genocide than suffer an enemy to live. I could go on, but i've had enough Machiavelli having done my major argumentative piece on him for Uni last week...

neko
14-10-2005, 09:41
No, they'd just give them a cigar and a wall to stand against.

Though it's given me a good idea for some praetorian fluff :).

I think all the trial an alien gets is:

"With or without a blindfold".
I find you both guilty of wasteful expenditure of The Emperor's Most Holy Resources. The maximum permissible expenditure on executing a captured Xenos shall be one (1) bolt shell, or five (5) units of las-ammo.

Wiseman
14-10-2005, 14:46
All xenos are guilty of blasphamy against his most immortal emperor, and his name they will be killed. or something like that

Tastyfish
14-10-2005, 15:23
I think it would depend, especially in the Tau cases as the Imperium does deal with aliens grudgingly (though it claims it doesn't). More likely the trial would be held to show how the aliens plotted against the Imperium and sought the downfall of man.
Its rigged of course, but helps to show a slightly less loyal planet how the Imperium isn't as terrible as they have been led to beleive and prevent an alien sponsored resistance growing (or at least turning the population against a future resistance).

That and there is nothing better to show the full pomp and glory of the Imperium like a good trial - just shooting them in the field might be more productive, and shooting the prisioners back in the city might get part of the message across but can easily backfire. Best have a lot of important people in big coats, few big parades as they arrive from off-world. Quick trial whilst everyone is interested to untangle any lasting allegiances then off for interrogation and execution. Another parade and then the big important people and their cloaks can go to the next place. Might even be able to get a couple of Astartes there as bodyguards.

Grand_Marshal_Kazan
14-10-2005, 15:40
I was flipping through the big =I= rulebook, and the Inquisition codexes the other night, and it got me thinking: would an Inquisitor ever put aliens on trial? I mean look at it this way, according to Imperial doctrine, aliens are blaspheming, heretical wretches (among other things) so does that mean they would be punished like any old heretical human? Example scenario: the Tau set up colony on a sparsely populated human world on the far, far reaches of the Tau Empire. Through some reason or the other, the humans are undefended, they have no garrison, and the colonists have no weapons. Inevitably, the Tau will try to convert the humans to serve the Tau'Va, with some zealous Imperial Preacher perhaps summoning aid from the Imperium. Now, intercepting the distress call, an Inquisitor and his retinue turn up, and investigate things. After a hard fought battle, the small Fire Warrior garrison is wiped out, leaving a Tau colony unprotected. As well as those humans who converted to the Tau'Va, would the Inquisitor try the Tau colonists for blasphemy, or would they just be executed? Swap the Tau for any other race if you like, but what do you think?

edit: I'm not talking about a fair trial. I mean, will the Inquisitor set up a show trial, or tell the alien that he must be executed for his "crimes".

There would probably be the occasional show trial, rigged to show all the 'horrors' of the alien and its ilk which would be shown to as many citizens as possible to keep the masses fearful of the xenos.

Khaine's Messenger
14-10-2005, 16:37
"Trails" of aliens are most likely going to end up like Inquisitor Grunwald's rant in the =][= rulebook--that is, a cataloguing of "crimes" (amongst which "existing" is quite prominent) that simply ends in "and therefore they must be eradicated!" All trials are usually held "in absentia," because capturing one of the foul things alive just for a show trial is too much effort to be bothered with unless you're fresh to the ranks and want to show everyone that you have cast-iron cajones (although more often than not they have a few skeletons lying around...could probably rapid-prototype a few, too, but that's another topic altogether). There's also the possibility that the guaranteed "last of the XXinsert alien species hereXX" will receive a show-trial simply to say "case closed" about the whole affair, but as much hyperbole we've gotten about successful exterminations (even the Tarellians are still around!), we've never got such a trial, really. Maybe a flashy show-trial for the "last" living entity to be executed in a campaign or battle or such would be interesting for morale purposes....

But no...in terms of battlefield justice and after-battle cleanup, I imagine that officers and NCO's delegate fire-teams to move amongst the wounded and execute any xeno-scum that remain alive. The more pedantic field commissars and ministorum officials would probably force officers and NCO's to keep a catalogue of such events for documentation purposes. Flashy executions would only occur as deemed necessary and if their executions have been removed from a question of battlefield justice to something else (morale, "making a statement," Inquisitorial research, AdBiologis vivisection...).

BaronDG
14-10-2005, 16:50
The main reason for not putting aliens on trial is that there can be no question of guilt. It's like putting an animal on trial. It has no conscience and it can not act against it's own nature. That is a human fault (best displayed by chaos). Aiding an alien would be like keeping a maneating tiger in your house, or feeding plaque carrying rats. But the fault is never with the tiger or the rat, only those humans in charge of it.
A xenos can never be expected to act for the Emperor and every crime in the Imperium is basically a crime against the Golden Throne.

Sir_Lunchalot
17-10-2005, 00:37
I think the closest you'd get to a trial is a few comments during the inquisitorial purge.

Inquisitor "Death to the xenos scum!" <shoots alien>
Acolyte "trigger flame cannons" <burns aliens>
Inquisitor "Glad we got that infestation cleared out."

anything more would imply that the aliens *might* be found innocent and that they commited crimes, rather than ARE crimes agaisnt the sanctity of human civilisation. :chrome:

Minister
17-10-2005, 00:46
Are you or have you ever been a member of or under the influence of a Xenos race?

shutupSHUTUP!!!
17-10-2005, 01:04
I can't remember where, but I read a piece of official fluff where an eldar was standing trial for something, he started mouthing off like an idiot about eldrad ulthuan causing the ork armageddon wars, to save a few thousand eldar from the orks instead.

Freak Ona Leash
17-10-2005, 01:17
I can't remember where, but I read a piece of official fluff where an eldar was standing trial for something, he started mouthing off like an idiot about eldrad ulthuan causing the ork armageddon wars, to save a few thousand eldar from the orks instead.
A bit of fluff in a WD from 2003 I believe. Started insulting his captors and saying rather incriminating things about Eldar involvement in the Armageddon wars. It wasnt a trial though, more of a: "Answer our questions or we'll stick this flamer up your nether-regions, xenos scum!"

shutupSHUTUP!!!
17-10-2005, 01:21
Answer our questions or we'll stick this flamer up your nether-regions, xenos scum!"

Which of course happened anyway :P

C. Langana
17-10-2005, 02:09
I'm doing this subject in my law course, which makes it even more amusing, especially the way I keep expecting a human rights lawyer to pop up and well, get shot.

ArtificerArmour
17-10-2005, 19:37
i thought the inquisitor was the judge anyway. the fate of the tau would be at their leisure. do they kill them there and then, do they let them leave, or do they offer the tau a deal which will keep the tau alive (until they are no longer useful) and the inquisitor uses the tau for something which is equal to or greater in value to the ][ than the tau's death there and then.

Hlokk
17-10-2005, 20:21
I actually think there are trials of aliens, although not in the sence we would understand it.

If you read eisenhorn, abnett makes reference to an inquisitorial conclave / congress. Here, you'd get a heretic, alien or peice of technology and disect it either psychically, literally or mentally.

Gavmo
20-10-2005, 04:11
"You stand accused of being an alien. What say you?"

"Graaargh!"

"Guilty!"

*Inquisitor pops a cap.*:evilgrin:

brother_fandango
20-10-2005, 17:45
i think it would depend on the type of blasphmoer. tyranid, theres no question of excetuion. but an igaurdsmen, possiblly.......

lonepilgrim
22-10-2005, 12:48
If you read eisenhorn, abnett makes reference to an inquisitorial conclave / congress. Here, you'd get a heretic, alien or peice of technology and disect it either psychically, literally or mentally.

Hlokk is on the right trail. According to the Eisenhorn trilogy, Inquisitors sometimes attend Apotropaic studies to examine heretics, aliens and psykers. A study involves 1 to 3 Inquisitors, a council is at least 11 Inquisitors and a congress is 60 or more Inquisitors.

The Inquisitors don' put their subject on trial, they try to learn more about it so that they can fight it better.

Wraithbored
22-10-2005, 13:24
Humm I wonder how an interogation of a captured Tyrant/ Genestealer or whatever monstrosity would look like!

Oh here's one:
A Ordo Xenos =][= is interogating a Tyrannid Fleshborer weapon symbiote.

Inquisitor: "Do you deny the fact you shot your contents at the space marine sitting there!?!??"
*Space Marine waves at acoyltes*
Gun:*silence*