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alphamale
22-10-2006, 04:34
Hello,

I've recently decided to venture into Warhammer, after playing 40K exclusively. Picking a dedicated Slaanesh army was an easy choice, as that is what I play in 40K. I orginally wanted a pure demonic legions cavalry force but found out to my dismay that it cannot be done legally. So after much debate and weighing the troops from HoC and BoC, I've decided on a primarily Mortals army.

Here is the list. I've yet to purchase any of the models, except the Mtd Demonettes and Dragon Ogres, which I already have.

Total Cost 1984

Exalted Champion of Slaanesh, General of the army.
MoS
Halberd
Chaos Steed
Total: 140

Sorceress of Slaanesh
MoS
Lvl2 Spellcaster
Chaos Steed
Total: 156

Sorceress of Slaanesh
MoS
Lvl2 Spellcaster
Chaos Steed
Total: 156

Sorceress of Slaanesh
MoS
Chaos Steed
Total: 121

Core:
5 Knights of Slaanesh
Standard Bearer
MoS
Total: 205

5 Knights of Slaanesh
Champion
Standard Bearer
MoS
Total: 225

6 Marauder Horseman
Flails
Musician
Total: 96

6 Marauder Horseman
Flails
Musician
Total: 96

6 Marauder Horseman
Flails
Musician
Total: 96

6 Marauder Horseman
Flails
Musician
Total: 96

Special:
6 Mtd Demonettes
6 Mtd Demonettes
Total: 360


Rare:
3 Dragon Ogres
Great Weapons
Light Armour
Total: 237

I have 26pts left, Im thinking I should spend on a Dispel Scroll. Any suggestions?

I don't really play in tournaments, though it might change. I however, play in competitive circles where special characters are not allowed. The lists must also be 100% legal etc.

I'd appreciate any feedback on this list, how do you think it will fare vs most armies, vs shooty armies. Is it fun to play? Play against? Is it a no-brainer army? Should I equip my general with magic items/gifts? Same with my casters? Do I have enough casters to dominate the magic phase?

I figured having 2 units of Knights, 2 units of Mtd Demonettes and 3 Dragon Ogres is enough hitting power and so I can spend majority of my character slots for casters. At the moment, my plan is to have the General and the lvl1 Caster acompany 1 group of 5 Knights each. The 2 lvl2 Casters can move about and give magic support as the battle unfolds. I'd have gone for a Steed of Slaanesh for greater mobility, but those things I've been told is a fire magnet.

I am addicted to speed, thus I am after an all mounted army, consequently the all cav slaanesh demon army was my first pick.

Thanks in advance.

Oh yes, I forgot to mention, last time I played a few proxy games for Warhammer was during 3rd and 4th Ed, where Heroes mounted on dragons kitted out to be as near 50% of the army was a common sight.

Neknoh
22-10-2006, 06:07
Drop one Marauder Horseman from one unit and upgrade your third Sorceror to level 2.

Or, drop an entire unit of Marauder Horsemen in favour of items for at least two of your characters, your Exalted Champion would benefit from the Crown of Everlasting Conquest, whilst a Spell Familliar on one of your sorcerors, and a Power Familliar on another would make for loads of slaaneshi spells. And let us not forget that we do have one very useful item for casting spells called the Skull of Katan (highly useful now, seeing as you will want to get the most out of the few dice the guy can use).

Toddums
22-10-2006, 07:09
Maybe its just me, But I think that going magic heavy when your army is super fast, and needs to get into combat fast, is a bit pointless..or atleast its not optimal. You are going to be able to charge by turn 2, by turn 3 all your units should be in combat. What will your mages do then? They will either be stuck in combat, or stay behind the lines (where they become very very vulnerable).

If you drop two casters, and a marauder unit, you can make one of the knight units chosen, and also add a champion. You can also add another unit of daemonettes. You then can add shields to two marauders units, as well add the crown (as nek suggested) to your general. This leaves you with a scroll caddy as your only mage.

I guess I view magic kinda like shooting. Wanting to stay out of combat and make the most of your magic for as long as possible, forcing the enemy to come to you, then engage.

alphamale
22-10-2006, 09:18
Thanks all for the advice.

I did make a list with no SpellCasters, but I scrapped it in favour of this magic one. I figured I might as well capitolise on Slaanesh's powerful spells. At this point I also figured I'd be able to keep my 2 lvl2s behind my ranks to cause problems for my opponent. Admittedly, I am working on the assumption that I am able to stay untargetted if my Independant Characters are within XX" of a friendly unit? If I am wrong that kinda throws a spanner in my plan.

I didnt buy any magic items/gifts for my characters as I was after more models on the table. I am aware that cavalry armies tend to be rather small and was hoping to max out on units to create enough targets that atleast 50% of my hard hitters will strike home.

Speaking of hard hitters, I am not much of a fan of Chosen Knights. They seem too costly for what they do. Let me know if they really are worth their points, though.

Also, is regeneration really worth it? Crown of Everlasting Conquest costs a whopping 50pts, thats 1.5 Chaos Knights! Does anyone else think I should not go magic heavy with a cavalry force? What Toddums says makes alot of sense to me, for some reason I didnt think of this before :)

One more thing, are chariots worthwhile? They cant march move, but I was thinking of having one behind my lines, both to provide an additional target, as well as a counter offensive-unit? I didnt include one in this list because I was so counting on the Slaanesh Chariot from the Demonic Legion's list. This mortal one to me just doesnt seem... fast enough... or cool enough... any thoughts?

Many thanks for the replies guys. I'm off to try an alternative setup for the characters.

As always, many thanks in advance.

Edit: some spelling mistakes...

Toddums
22-10-2006, 09:40
Characters can now be targetted unless they are in a unit. So they aren't going to be safe just being CLOSE to the unit, they have to be in the unit or risk being singled out and shot at (or whatever nastiness your opponent has up is sleeve..hail of doom arrows anyone?).

I am not the most experienced player but here are my thoughts..

Chariots
I really like them. They have a good charge range, and have potential to do a lot of damage. When combined with other units, a chariot can easily win you the combat. Just don't expect it to take down a whole unit on its own, because after the charge chariots lose their UMPPH. They can move 7 and charge 14 so they aren't quite as fast, but not slow enough to be of no use. And you are right, they might be targetted (which isn't a bad thing) because opponents might not like the idea of d6+1 str 5 impact hits, not to mention halbreds and str 4 chaos steeds. Let them fire arrows at the chariot though, as it has toughness 5 and a 3+ save and 4 wounds. Just keep it away from cannons..

Maybe you are right about chosen knights, I am not experienced enough to say which way is better (if there is an answer). But 10 WS5 Str 5 attacks seems a lot better then 5. With 10 (11 with campion, and don't forget steeds!), you stand a fair chance at breaking enemy infantry. Chosen Knights can charge into enemy units by themselves and have a good shot at winning the combat (against average infantry they need 3+ 2+). Plus with all those attacks you can even throw them at some nasty units ( treekin, big ogre units, dragon ogres, blah blah blah) and you can win the combat. With 5 knights, you don't stand a CHANCE going against enemy infantry blocks or monster type units (and im talking about JUST the knights themselves).

I know ideally you want to use a unit of knights on the flank, or match them up against something they can handle. But when you make them Chosen, they have a chance at messing up just about anything, even if its a head on fight. Thats why they appeal to me I guess.

Any vet chaos players here to share their thoughts?

Good luck with your army man, i'd like to see it painted up.

der_lex
22-10-2006, 11:28
Maybe its just me, But I think that going magic heavy when your army is super fast, and needs to get into combat fast, is a bit pointless..or atleast its not optimal. You are going to be able to charge by turn 2, by turn 3 all your units should be in combat. What will your mages do then? They will either be stuck in combat, or stay behind the lines (where they become very very vulnerable).

If you drop two casters, and a marauder unit, you can make one of the knight units chosen, and also add a champion. You can also add another unit of daemonettes. You then can add shields to two marauders units, as well add the crown (as nek suggested) to your general. This leaves you with a scroll caddy as your only mage.

I guess I view magic kinda like shooting. Wanting to stay out of combat and make the most of your magic for as long as possible, forcing the enemy to come to you, then engage.

Most of the Slaanesh spells work on units in combat as well. Especially the 'paralysis' spell is fantastic to use on units that are already in combat. The other spells can be used on warmachine crew, etc. There's always an enemy unit on the table that's not being attacked.

I would add a little more oomph to the list somehow, though, since both marauder horsemen and daemonettes drop like flies under missile fire. A chariot sounds like a good plan. Maybe even park your general in there and give him a berserker sword for maximum carnage.

Toddums
22-10-2006, 12:13
Most of the Slaanesh spells work on units in combat as well. Especially the 'paralysis' spell is fantastic to use on units that are already in combat. The other spells can be used on warmachine crew, etc. There's always an enemy unit on the table that's not being attacked.

I would add a little more oomph to the list somehow, though, since both marauder horsemen and daemonettes drop like flies under missile fire. A chariot sounds like a good plan. Maybe even park your general in there and give him a berserker sword for maximum carnage.


Half of the spells can be cast on units in combat. I still stand by my opinion that this list would benefit more by dropping two of the sorcerors. I would recommend running both styles and seeing which ones you like.

alphamale
24-10-2006, 07:24
Hey guys,

Thanks for the comments. I havent had time to post a new list as I've been somewhat busy of late. Will do so in the next couple of days.

I'm gonna take Toddums' suggestion and try out 2 lists, one magic heavy, and another without but tooled up characters and see which I like best. Since only the characters will differ it wont be much of an issue in terms of purchasing the miniatures for the list.

So with that in mind, you guys dont think the list is sorely lacking in terms of model count or unit mixture? I'm about ready to start purchasing some models over the next few weeks :)

Thanks again.

Incoming
24-10-2006, 19:24
Those 26 points should do good spent on a scroll. (+1p)
I think the Dragon Ogres are not hitty enough to validate their cost (i.e. not worth it). So they should be removed. The champion is also to expensive (another Knight is only 13 points more), so he should go (+20p).
you then get 278 points over, they should be spent on an additional Knight to make one unit 6 models large. Your general is probably best joining the 5 Slaanesh Knights, also adding up to 6 models.
Then you have 245 points to spend on more fast hitty stuff, on Mtd. Deamonettes perhaps? or another Knight unit, size 6 with banner?

Toddums
24-10-2006, 22:27
Im going to respectfully disagree about dropping the dragon ogres, I love them. They have 4 wounds, weapon skill 4, and with great weapons, strength 7. Great for auto destroying chariots, and they also have great movement. The 4 wounds really come in handy too.

Last game I had vs lizardmen, 3 dragon ogres took on and shredded apart (after multiple rounds) a huge block of sauraus. Great stuff.

alphamale
25-10-2006, 03:36
Thanks Incoming for your thoughts. The General joins one unit of 5 Knights to bring the total to 6, while the lvl1 Caster joins the other unit of 5, also bringing the total to 6. The reason the Champion is in the second unit is to give it an extra attack in HTH, as the lvl1 Caster isnt as hard as the General in HTH.

Interesting thoughts regarding the DO. Ive never met anyone who thought DOs are weak in HTH for their points cost. The way I see it is that 1 DO is roughly equal to two Knights. They dont have the high armour save, but they have 4 wounds. Knights are more brittle and less forgiving given their 1 wound.

I am not sure I will drop the DragonOgres. The primary reason is because I have the models. Secondly, I figured my opponents will view it as a threat that needs to be dealt with before it hits their lines. I am however still toying with another list with no casters, the DO might get the boot in this one.

I'd love to be able to squeeze one more unit of Mtd Demonettes in... but not sure if I should at the cost of the DO unit. Do you honestly think it is worth dropping the DO for another 6 Mtd Demonettes?

Sounds like you have a nice game Toddums, do you ever find that striking last is a major problem for the DOs with great weapons? Last time I played Chaos in Warhammer was under 3rd/4th ED where they had T5. I know they have I2 but striking last on the charge...

Toddums
25-10-2006, 13:34
They don't strike last on the charge bro. Only zombies do that. Their poor iniative combined with greatweapons only means they will be stricking last after they charge. If given light armor, they have a 4+ save (which was saving my **** against the sauraus), and they also have 4 wounds, this means its not going to be easy for most things to actually kill one of these bad boys. Against the saurus I was hitting on 3's and wounding on 4's. I rolled pretty average each time, killing about 4 saurus per tern. So I had to make a few breaktests at -1 ldr (8 because my general was there). Soon however they widdled down the saurus so I didn't have to make those tests anymore. I had meant to charge them into the kroxigor (who they would have destroyed easily), but deployment didn't allow it.

I love the models too. And no I wouldn't take them out for anything. Ideally throw them at troops with lower weapons skill, or other monsters.

Slaaneshi Slave
25-10-2006, 13:47
My master is confused. He would like to be informed why an all mounted Slaaneshi Daemonic Legion is illegal?

Keeper of Secrets 615
6 Mounted Daemonettes
6 Mounted Daemonettes
5 Mounted Daemonettes
5 Mounted Daemonettes
5 Mounted Daemonettes
5 Mounted Daemonettes
5 Mounted Daemonettes
5 Mounted Daemonettes
5 Mounted Daemonettes

~2,000 pts.

My master suggests this is not a GREAT list, but it is an all mounted Slaaneshi Daemonic Legion (except for the KoS, who is fast enough to walk).

alphamale
25-10-2006, 18:30
Awesome that they dont strike last on the charge. For some reason I thought with GW they'd always strike last... silly me.


My master is confused. He would like to be informed why an all mounted Slaaneshi Daemonic Legion is illegal?

Slaaneshi Slave... Demonic Legion rule states:
"For each unit of these(true core unit) you include in your army allows you to field one other (non-True) Core Unit, one Special Unit and one Rare Unit of the same Greater Power."

True Core Units:
Demonettes

Non-True Core Unit:
Mtd Demonettes

etc

If my understanding of the above rule is wrong, pls let me know as I'd LOVE to field an all mounted Slaaneshi Demonic Legion list, not limited to Mtd Demonettes, but including, Chariots of Slaanesh and Pleasureseekers.

Lyquis
25-10-2006, 23:19
The army is not a demonic legion, it is a hordes of chaos demon list.

alphamale
26-10-2006, 02:54
Slaaneshi Slave needs to be exiled by his Master.

CrimsonFOX
26-10-2006, 03:35
Maybe you are right about chosen knights, I am not experienced enough to say which way is better (if there is an answer). But 10 WS5 Str 5 attacks seems a lot better then 5. With 10 (11 with campion, and don't forget steeds!), you stand a fair chance at breaking enemy infantry. Chosen Knights can charge into enemy units by themselves and have a good shot at winning the combat (against average infantry they need 3+ 2+). Plus with all those attacks you can even throw them at some nasty units ( treekin, big ogre units, dragon ogres, blah blah blah) and you can win the combat. With 5 knights, you don't stand a CHANCE going against enemy infantry blocks or monster type units (and im talking about JUST the knights themselves).

I know ideally you want to use a unit of knights on the flank, or match them up against something they can handle. But when you make them Chosen, they have a chance at messing up just about anything, even if its a head on fight. Thats why they appeal to me I guess.

Any vet chaos players here to share their thoughts?


Both Chosen Knights and regular knights are worthwhile for their points. The true value is created in how you use them within your army. If you plan on running the knights on their own as I often do, able to fight against a ranked unit, you need them to be chosen. If you want them as a supporting unit ONLY that hits flanks or charges in conjunction with other units, regular knights are fine.

MikeH
26-10-2006, 04:00
i've found Chosen Knights to be a must- they're really nasty.

alphamale
26-10-2006, 04:10
I envision my troops double teaming as much as possible.

Having mentioned that, what do you guys think of the model count? Is it decent for a mounted force? If I were to try Chosen, it'll mean I loose 6 models from somewhere to make room. Any further thoughts?

Kremmet
27-10-2006, 03:27
I've run quite a bit of Slaanesh over the last couple of years and I can tell you that, if you're playing in a competitive environment, there's nothing people fear more out of that list than Slaaneshi magic. Honestly, I'd find a way to make that last mage a lvl 2 (maybe dropping one unit of Maruaders as one of the earlier posters suggested) as a lvl 1 is really only useful for being a caddy anymore. This is really because, since 7th, he doesn't contribute dice to the overall power pool anymore, but instead does pretty much the opposite (forcing you to use one of your two army power dice so that he can cast his one spell).

Even though you've got a pretty good model count for a mounted army there, you're more of a fast cav army than a knight army. What this means for you is that charging on turn two, even if you have the charge, is not a good idea unless you're playing someone making some rather large mistakes in their unit placing (thereby giving you a front with knights and a flank with Marauders/Daemonettes). So, in most games, you're going to use the second turn to really set up your units so that, regardless of what your opponent does, one of his flanks (as in the army, not a unit flank) is falling. This means that you're going to have two turns of blasting (the Slaaneshi magic missile being quite good at killing pretty much anything especially when on mounted sorcerers) along with your bread and butter spells of manipulation (which will continue to be highly effective even when engaged as they can be cast into combat or out to unengaged units).

As a final point on your magic, remember that having a cav army like yours in Fantasy is all about dominating the movement phase so that you can dominate the combat phase through flanks, rears, and feints and nothing in the game will help you accomplish those tasks better than Slaaneshi magic.

On Dragon Ogres, I've both found them useful and a hinderance at times. Like Toddums, I've had them dish out horrendous casualties for the enemy even after losing one of their number to magic, shooting, and the combat itself. The were in fact quite useful in my Slaaneshi beast army as they could charge, dish out a metric ton of damage, lose combat and either flee (most likely getting away) or staying there long enough for my herds to be in charge range to destroy that unit turn three.

Then again, I'd also be hard pressed to reintroduce them to my lists after using what replaced them (mainly chariots). When Dragon Ogres fail, which will happen due to enivitable unluckiness while playing, you lose a large portion of your army. Granted, the same applies to your knights, but not quite to the degree of almost 300 pts. Losing your Ogres, or having them get charged and not be able to flee due to their immune to psyche, can be a devastating blow to an army as small and elite as yours.

In the end, it depends on personal tastes and whether you think the list NEEDS the DO or if it can make by with three chariots (one being a mortal chariot and two being tuskgor). Sorry if I didn't include enough transitions in the paragraphs, but I'm tired and, really, your list reminds me a lot of what I played around with when I started up Slaanesh (in terms of the controversial things like how much magic or DO).

alphamale
27-10-2006, 08:36
Hi Kremmet,

Many thanks for an insightful post. You make a good dinstinction between a Fast Cav army vs a Knight Army. I have 6 units of 6 Fast Cav, 4 of which are true Fast Cav, and only 3 Heavy Cavalry. From the sounds of things, I think this army is better suited for a more experienced player. I will however modify the list slightly to be more beginner friendly, and keep this for when I have a better understanding of the subtleties of the movement phase.

On the DO issue, I have the figures, and that was the reason I included them. Another reason, though somewhat subjective is that they "used" to be the absolute hammer in early editions. I remember when they had T5 and most rank and file units just bounce of off them while they tear through enemy rank and file and characters with equal ease. I realise this is all history... but I think abit of me remembers the old glory days of these bad boys :)

Furthermore, I am a semi fluff gamer for lack of a better phrase. I play 40K mainly and I always take units of 6 and mark them with Mark of Slaanesh. This has translated into Warhammer now, hence all my units max out at 6 models, the only exception being DOs, 3 models rank up 6 wide. To this end, I've also converted one DO to have a female upper body to fit into my army better and would like to field her :D

I'll be posting two more army lists shorty. One that is a modification of this current one with the major change being all lvl2 Casters. The other list is one with harder hitting HTH characters with no magic.

Kremmet
27-10-2006, 13:53
I can remember back then. Then again, the Centaur were a pretty good hammer as well, if I remember correctly.

When I got back into Fantasy, I did pretty much the same thing that you're doing. Not in terms of army list, but in coming back after playing 40k for years. From that experience, I can say that your decision to wait until you have a comfortable grasp on the movement mechanics is a wise one. It's hard moving from a game with SUCH a standardized movement/range system with an almost limitless possibility for range of movement (40k) to one as extremely rigid and unforgiving (Fantasy).

Once you have movement down, I have full confidence that you can get a lot out of the list you've presented. Granted, when you do you might realise how truly vulnerable your army is, but at least I've always found it more entertaining to build an army that is challenging and tweak at as you learn than it is to build a cookie cutter to tweak.

alphamale
27-10-2006, 14:33
Weird, that is exactly where I'm coming from. I've been converting / playing with my Emperor's Children since 2001. I wasn't financially able to fund two armies simultaenously and decided to go with 40K as it's the most played here.

Haha most Chaos units were good hammers back then. The thing is DOs were one of the best hammers and thus one I hold closest to heart :)

Here is the revised list with 3 x lvl2 casters. I've dropped flails from 2 units of Marauder Horseman to make room for the last lvl2 caster. I figured the 2 units will screen the 2 Knight units and will get shot to pieces anyway, so they can make do without the flails :)

Characters:
Exalted Champion
MoS
Halberd
Chaos Steed
Total: 140

Sorceress of Slaanesh
MoS
Lvl2 Spellcaster
Chaos Steed
Total: 156

Sorceress of Slaanesh
MoS
Lvl2 Spellcaster
Chaos Steed
Total: 156

Sorceress of Slaanesh
MoS
Lvl2 Spellcaster
Chaos Steed
Total: 156

Core:
5 Knights of Slaanesh
Standard Bearer
MoS
Total: 205

5 Knights of Slaanesh
Champion
Standard Bearer
MoS
Total: 225

6 Marauder Horseman
Musician
Total: 84

6 Marauder Horseman
Musician
Total: 84

6 Marauder Horseman
Flails
Musician
Total: 96

6 Marauder Horseman
Flails
Musician
Total: 96

Special:
6 Mtd Demonettes
6 Mtd Demonettes
Total: 360

Rare:
3 Dragon Ogres
Great Weapons
Light Armour
Total: 237

alphamale
27-10-2006, 15:50
This is a 1000pts list that I'm toying with to play some games as soon as possible to get used to Warhammer's movement. I've now got all the models for this 1000pts except the Marauders. This is more of a fun list to get used to the various units I'll be fielding in the 2000pts version.


Exalted Champion
MoS
Halberd
Chaos Steed
Total: 140

5 Knights of Slaanesh
MoS
Total: 185

6 Marauder Horseman
Total: 78

6 Mtd Demonettes 180
6 Mtd Demonettes 180
Total: 360

Rare:
3 Dragon Ogres
Great Weapons
Light Armour
Total: 237