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Darkhorse
22-10-2006, 14:08
Commander; Barded steed, lance, heavy armour, Pure of Heart, Enchanted Shield, Ring of Fury :-135

Mage; Level 2, Channeller, 2 Dispel Scrolls :- 180

24 Spearmen; Full command :- 294

24 Spearmen; Full command :- 294

8 Silverhelms; Full command, heavy armour, shields, Banner of Ellyrion :- 234

18 Swordmasters; Full command :- 264

12 Mercenary Crossbowmen:- 96

enyoss
22-10-2006, 18:08
Not bad but a couple of suggestions.

12 Mercenary Crossbowmen! They seem a little, well, out of character with the rest of the list don't you think? If you can free up just four points I'd replace them with a repeater bolt thrower.

Also 8 Silverhelms is a very awkward number. You'll never be able to get a rank bonus and a line 9 long is unwieldy. Drop them to 6 (7 at a push) and use the points elsewhere.

Your swordmaster unit looks a bit in limbo too. It's a bit too large to function as an efficient flanking unit but, without a character, will never be able to fulfill the role of a tough mainstay unit. With the characters you have I'd drop them down to 12, lose the standard, and plow the points back somewhere else.

Now, freed up points:

23x2=46
6x13+12=90
+96=232

That'll get you a bolt thrower and a hero for your spearmen with Armour of the Gods and a Sword of Might (possibly make him a battlestandard with a bit more shuffling).

Not trying to tell you how to do things but hope it gives you a few ideas :)

Cheers,

enyoss

Darkhorse
22-10-2006, 19:43
I thought the Mercs might be controversial...:evilgrin:
Archers are rubbish, no problem.
RBTs either 6 S4 shots or the huge bolt of diminishing returns.
Costs 100 pts and delivers about 2 thirds of what the Mercs should average.
Elven Pride be damned!;)

8 Silverhelms; awkward yes, reason see boxed set...:rolleyes:

I hoping to use the Swordmasters in conjunction with the Silverhelms to force a flank, (I'm not expecting them to do it on their own).
Another rank would cost at least 26 pts for +1 combat res. Not sure this is worth it though I could drop a silverhelm for it.
Also means another box...(see above)

enyoss
22-10-2006, 20:00
Elven Pride be damned!;)


*sigh* :cries:



8 Silverhelms; awkward yes, reason see boxed set...:rolleyes:


You don't have to use them all though! Come on, prove me right when I argued that GW's boxing policy wouldn't affect army composition ;)



I hoping to use the Swordmasters in conjunction with the Silverhelms to force a flank, (I'm not expecting them to do it on their own).
Another rank would cost at least 26 pts for +1 combat res. Not sure this is worth it though I could drop a silverhelm for it.
Also means another box...(see above)

They'll get left behind though won't they? If they attempt to march up the field with the Silverhelms they'll be leaving at least one flank well exposed. Also you want to be maximising their frontage not their ranks. 5x4 is a terrible formation for Swordmasters... usually a frontage of 7 is best as then you get full attacks against units which have the minimum 5 across for ranks.

Cheers,

enyoss

Darkhorse
23-10-2006, 08:07
Well I'm looking at dropping 3 silverhelms and replacing them with more swordmasters, upto 23 which should give us another block, with an 8X3 potential, also considering a warbanner for them (the mage may also be around this unit for escort). You forgot to modify for base size, Elves are based on 2cmX2cm bases, Orcs Chaos things and cavalry have wider bases and you can get another file in there...
Problems coordinating a charge from 2 directions? Silverhelms do 16" including a wheel to bring the target into line (through difficult terrain, I didn't buy the Banner of Ellyrion for nothing, should help hold the flank). Swordmasters can do 10", not sure where the problem comes from?

Boxes; It may not affect composition for established armies, new armies are a different matter.
My army status; Crossbowmen have been gathering dust for some time, Spearmen are undercoated, Silverhelms have been glued together, I'm picking up the Swordmasters on Tuesday.

Darkhorse
23-10-2006, 13:07
Revised list:
Commander;Barded steed, heavy armour, Pure of Heart, Dragonscale Shield, Ring of Fury :-141

Mage; Level 2, Channeller, 2 Dispel Scrolls :- 180

Mage; Level 2, Channeller, Jewel of the Dusk, Dispel Scroll :- 175

24 Spearmen; Full command :- 294

24 Spearmen; Full command :- 294

5 Silverhelms; Full command, heavy armour, shields, Banner of Ellyrion :- 165

8 Swordmasters; Full command, War banner :- 154

12 Mercenary Crossbowmen:- 96

Teach
24-10-2006, 08:15
Why so many D scrolls?! Which army has has so many wiz's that you are going to need them? Go offencive! Burn them! Take a silver wand for more spells. Maybe a extra ring for one spearman.
A good / sneaky combo. get Longdrong slayers and shadow steed him into a unit. He can hold up for a turn or 2 (one time 4 against dwarfs) Also you can use unseen lurker to get those swordmen and spears into line with the silverhelms. Just some idea's
Goodluck

Darkhorse
24-10-2006, 11:46
Long Drong Slayers- Not allowed in an Elf army.

Extra ring for one spearman? :confused:
Not that I can give magic items to a spearman unit...

Silverwand, looking at it, although I'm more concerned with making sure spells are successfully cast rather than getting a choice atm.
3rd Dispel scroll is probably just a kneejerk at this point, who has so many wizards that 3 scrolls might be wanted? Well I'm looking at knocking out 3 spells a turn...

Try this;

Commander;Barded steed, heavy armour, Pure of Heart, Dragonscale Shield, Ring of Fury :-141

Mage; Level 2, Channeller, Dispel Scroll, Power Stone :- 180

Mage; Level 2, Channeller, Jewel of the Dusk, Dispel Scroll :- 175

24 Spearmen; Full command :- 294

24 Spearmen; Full command :- 294

5 Silverhelms; Full command, heavy armour, shields, Banner of Ellyrion :- 165

8 Swordmasters; Full command, War banner :- 154

12 Mercenary Crossbowmen:- 96

Teach
24-10-2006, 14:00
Great! ( i would still use 6 shadow warrior instead of some spearmen but that would be nagging)
Have fun

enyoss
24-10-2006, 14:07
Long Drong Slayers- Not allowed in an Elf army.
Extra ring for one spearman? :confused:


That should solve their anal retentiveness ;)

DarkHorse, it seems that you posted the same list again... you may want to check that out.

I agree with the Dispel Scroll burnfest... now you have two wizards get rid of 'em! Go offensive and just try and have a good time in your own magic phase.

Also, you only have 8 Swordmasters when their minimum is 10. I'd also put that Warbanner on the Spearmen for following reasons:

a) If charged, your Swordmasters are unlikely to win, even with the Warbanner, and if they do they won't have many left. The Spearmen are much more likely to take a charge and lose by 1 which is where the Warbanner really helps.

b) Any unit flank charged by a unit of Swordmasters will generally have had it anyway so you shouldn't need the +1 in that case.

c) The Swordmasters are really easy to whittle down by shooting. After 3 casualties the unit, and the Warbanner, will be rendered almost useless (also a problem if they are still around after the charge in a) ).

So, in summary, I think if you put the Warbanner on your Spearmen you'll get more use out of it.

Hope that's of some use,

Cheers,

enyoss

EDIT: just seen the list was indeed different. Go a bit further... get rid of at least one more scroll. The emancipation from proliferation of scrolls is a thing to aspire to!

Storm Hunters
24-10-2006, 14:57
i find units of 14-15 Swordmasters with only a blade master make quite effective flankers in two ranks, they can also take out units like goblins or rats if they get a good charge, though a war banner would siggnificantly help this.

Darkhorse
26-10-2006, 16:02
Commander;Barded steed, heavy armour, Pure of Heart, Dragonscale Shield, Ring of Fury :-141

Mage; Level 2, Channeller, Power Stone :- 160

Mage; Level 2, Channeller, Jewel of the Dusk, Dispel Scroll :- 175

24 Spearmen; Full command :- 294

24 Spearmen; Full command :- 294

5 Silverhelms; Full command, heavy armour, shields, Banner of Ellyrion :- 165

10 Swordmasters; Blademaster, standard bearer War banner :- 174

12 Mercenary Crossbowmen:- 96

Total = 1499

Running this one out on Tuesday, We'll see if I need the to replace the Power Stone with a Scroll....

GoWoodys
29-10-2006, 22:44
1111111111

Darkhorse
01-11-2006, 18:29
Ouch!
Vs. Orcs & Gobbos I got walked on.
First to die were the silverhelms, 2 Fanatics left nothing... (Must find some counter to this as Fanatics seem a popular choice in the club)
Swordmasters went next, charged by Ogres, not pretty.
My mage fell under the Fists of Gork (If only I'd had another dispel scroll!!!) ;)
The Spearmen at least showed promise dealing with Gobbo infantry, but by then the battle was lost and they had to face Black Orcs to the front and wolf riders to the flank.
After all the talk of Merc Crossbows I forgot to pack them...
Ah well, next week it's Imperial gunnery.
A unit of Spear with detachment, some handgunners, a cannon and an organ gun.