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PhrollikK
22-10-2006, 15:13
I did a quick search on stormbirds (on this forum) and could not find anything on the subject. The stormbirds I'm referring to are the ones mentioned in the Horus Heresy novels. Is there more substance to them than that mentioned in those books (Like 40K CCG, Rogue Trader etc.)? They are dexcribed as larger than Thunder Hawks, carry a rotary cannon and bombs/missiles and transport upto 100 marines. Please elaborate if you know anything more on these vehicles.

Voronwe[MQ]
22-10-2006, 15:31
Stormbirds would then be able to carry a whole company, which would be impractical with the later Chapter formation of the Adeptus Astartes. Sorry, no info.

ML Kurze
22-10-2006, 16:02
In addition, the Stormbirds were old craft built for the crusade. At the time of the novels, they were slowly being phased out to be replaced by the newer Thunderhawk gunships. However, the legions didn't want to phase out their Stormbirds so they added the gunships.

Brother Othorio
22-10-2006, 16:12
;1025478'] which would be impractical with the later Chapter formation of the Adeptus Astartes. um.. in what way exactly?

Havoc
22-10-2006, 18:01
Well one ship carrying 100 marines is quite stupid as one square hit means bye-bye to a whole comapny in a matter of seconds, so thunderhawks carrying say a few squads world be more effective...plus they are faster.

Kegluneq
22-10-2006, 18:05
You'd very rarely want to field a tenth of your total fighting force in a single vehicle. When your legion numbered in the tens of thousands, a loss of a hundred wouldn't have been so great, but putting that many 40k marines in one ship would be putting your eggs into one basket. The thunderhawk better caters for current SM strategy of small tactical insertions over mass invasions.

Talos402000
22-10-2006, 19:00
Where did you get the information that they carried 100 marines? My understanding was that they were both different marks of the same craft, the Warhawk, which was produced on Terra in the Pacificus region during the Dark Age of Technology.

BlackLegion
22-10-2006, 19:08
Tje first book of the Horus Heresy novels: Horus Rising.

Kage2020
22-10-2006, 19:10
In addition, the Stormbirds were old craft built for the crusade. At the time of the novels, they were slowly being phased out to be replaced by the newer Thunderhawk gunships.
Darn. And here was my hope that they were actually aerodynamically superior! ;)

Kage

ML Kurze
22-10-2006, 19:29
Darn. And here was my hope that they were actually aerodynamically superior! ;)
No crime in hoping. Or is there? :p

Would be nice to see a concept sketch of the Stormbird compaired to a Thunderhawk. That way we can judge 'm.

CELS
22-10-2006, 19:34
Unless I am mistaken, Dan Abnett did indeed describe them as being more aerodynamic, Kage ;) Though I can't be sure. I don't have very good long-term memory when it comes to Black Library novels.

BlackLegion
22-10-2006, 19:42
In the novels the Stormbird is described as arrowhead shaped.

Kage2020
22-10-2006, 19:57
And it was succeeded by the flying brick!? Wow.

Kage

BrainFireBob
22-10-2006, 20:31
Well, the flying brick would descend faster . . .

Kage2020
22-10-2006, 20:35
LMAO! That is, perhaps, the best answer I've ever read to the aerodynamic nature (or lack thereof) of the Thunderhawk. I love it! :D

Kage

Havoc
22-10-2006, 22:03
I picture a storm bird as this shape http://www.khulsey.com/stockstealth.jpeg
but with a few modifications such as in space plus the tail section being removed for something more ellegant, or with out a tail section as it's mainly used for deploying troops as fast as possible from space.

Romanus
23-10-2006, 02:13
I've been workin on some design drats from what we know about the stormbird, so far i've got:

-Delta shaped? (assuming arrowhead shaped is same thing)
-carry 100 marines.

This thing then i'm guessing has to be about as big as either a Herc or Globemaster to accomodate that much bulk. Can anyone post any other tib bits as to what it looks like, i'll try and do some rough drafts up that may be used for DIY projects.

Cheers, Rom

Kage2020
23-10-2006, 03:04
Check out Traveller: The New Era. They had a landing craft that might be inspirational to you, Romanus...

Kage

Hellebore
23-10-2006, 03:46
I would also look at the heresy 'era' design asthetics.

Specifically the OLD rhino, land raider, land speeder. They cleverly put their out of production models in as old designs, giving a continuity.

But if the stormbird comes from that time, it would also have an 'older' design asthetic, and I think if you are going to design one it would fit the period better if it wasn't designed the same ways as modern marine equipment.

Hellebore

malika
23-10-2006, 06:08
I remember seeing a piece of artwork from the Rogue Trader era (not sure but it looked really old) and it basicly had this dropship which looked very similar to the one from Aliens, but then bigger with many assault marines jumping out of. Perhaps the Stormbird could be that?

And what is a Warhawk?

PhrollikK
23-10-2006, 07:38
The problem I'm having with the whole subject is that there seems to be very little or no mention at all of Stormbirds prior to Horus Rising. Now did Dan A. get total artistic freedom in coming up with Stormbirds, was there a hand of intervention from GW or what's the story? I'm guessing some spindoctor in GW has had plans/knowldege of stormbirds and they've never been implemented in fluff/images... Just wondering if anyone has seen any stormbirds in the 40K CCG imagery coz alot of goofy stuff has appeared in aforementioned pics.

Inquisitor S.
23-10-2006, 11:11
I dimly remember pictures of some kind of landing craft in the Titan Legions artwork (or Adeptus Titanicus), although it's quite improbable that theses are stormbirds as they weren't named then. They are somewhat similar to the then-era thunderhawks, but bigger and more aerodynamic, so maybe you could take a look there.

I think it was a picture of Ultramarines Vs Thousand Sons or something like that.

bertcom1
23-10-2006, 19:13
From my old epic stuff from 1992 or so (When it was called Space Marine), I found a picture, a section is shown below featuring a large landing craft, with at least 30 jump marines flying out of it, and others queuing to leap out the door.

This may be a Stormbird, as at the time, Thunderhawks looked like this (http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9930&d=1149341287) in the artwork.

Voronwe[MQ]
23-10-2006, 19:27
Interesting design of the 'bird'.

Inquisitor S.
23-10-2006, 19:32
That's exactly the picture I meant, Thunderhawks then looked like bricks with castle ramparts attached

malika
23-10-2006, 19:49
Hmm...the brick castle is just bad...very very bad! The dropship might be interesting like I mentioned, but it needs a bit of reshaping since it looks like a direct rip off from the Aliens dropship and Terminator flying HK.

Gdolkin
23-10-2006, 22:15
There's never a hundred marines in that thing.. I just imagined Stormbirds to be bigger and scarier than their contemporary or M42 Thunderhawks in 'the same' way as the Legions dwarf the Chapters, battles were more epic, events, triumphs and disasters more colossal etc. -just like a 'hawk, but bigger, longer, and more beastly. The whole Heresy aesthetic, what with the superhuman Primarchs, 1000's-strong Legions, and the magnitude of the events, brings to mind words like epic, colossal, titanic, vast etc- everything seems to have been on an even more godly scale than in 40k, so an archaic uber-thunderhawk that can carry a company of marines on what would have been almost routine patrols, exercises and operations seems perfectly natural, so to speak. 100 marines out of a Legion of 5000 or whatever is barely a sentry or recon detail or strike team, but having them all drop on you at once out of a flying fortress would have been suitably terrifying for the purposes of the Crusade. Hooray for Stormbirds!

GodofWarTx
24-10-2006, 07:27
thankfully, they are rewriting the fluff to say that the legions were truly, well, *legion*. You cant reconquer the known galaxy with 100,000 marines spread across 18 legions, each legion now in the fluff has over 100,000 men for the most part, with the ultramarines at 400,000 or so. How else do you think after incredibly grevious losses during the heresy could they all split up into chapters.

I dig the arrow shape of that picture, and the Swivel engine mounts are very slick, and harken back to the higher technological envelope of the Crusade Era.

Inquisitor S.
24-10-2006, 12:15
You cant reconquer the known galaxy with 100,000 marines spread across 18 legions, each legion now in the fluff has over 100,000 men for the most part, with the ultramarines at 400,000 or so. How else do you think after incredibly grevious losses during the heresy could they all split up into chapters.

I don't think your numbers are mentioned in official fluff... And the numbers in "Galaxy in flames" are MUCH smaller.

Mechanicus
24-10-2006, 12:40
I don't think your numbers are mentioned in official fluff...
They are in the Horus Heresy Artbook, Vol 2 (Well, that most legions could must 100,000 warriors and that the Ultramarines could muster 250,000). It's up to you whether you view that as canon or not. I personally do, but I view everything published by GW as canon.

malika
24-10-2006, 12:54
Hmm people seem to ignore the might of the Imperial Army and Adeptus Mechanicus when speaking about the Horus Heresy and/or the Great Crusade. I assume they probably had a bigger role, but since Space Marines are GW's posterboys they get ignored.

BlackLegion
24-10-2006, 22:55
I think the Stormbild could look like the Thunderbolt Dropship here:
http://www.netepic.org/GALLERY/view_album.php?set_albumName=albup24