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lollysticky
23-10-2006, 17:04
first of all: hi, since i'm new to this forum :)

i've been collecting warhammer for some years now
i have a unit of ogres, some orcs&goblins and some chaos units.
My primary goal is just collecting goodlooking miniatures and paint them since i don't like an army that concists entirely out of one single race

i knew about the dow as soon as they came out, but due to lack of time, i never been able to get into detail with their units and special characters. but now i've seen them => 3 words: i luv em! :D

the vast diversity and the mix of different warhammer races is just the thing i'm searching for.
But as said: i mainly collect them, but i'm eager to start my own army to get some battles done. It takes me quite some time to finish one unit so within a year orso this should be reachable :p

i've read all the descriptions of the units but i really can't tell (lack of personal battle experience) wich units are the most attractive to play with. This is where hopefully some amongst you can help me out
i liek:
- cannon (or galloper gun)
- haflings (equiped with bow) and a halfling hot-pot
- Marksmen of Miragliano (some more shooting): perhaps team this unit up with the paymaster or should i put him with a melee type unit?
- Oglah Kan's Wolfboyz
- Ruglud's Armored Orcs
- The Cursed Company
- Duelists
- Pikemen => wich ones?

as said: i do this for fun, not to make an uberlist :)
as long as i have a nice looking army with a diversity of units i'm glad
but ffcourse those units need to be a bit good aswell
so plz point out if any of the units i mentioned suck bigtime
or perhaps some other pointers/tips to wich units i should chose

tx

Mephistofeles
23-10-2006, 20:30
Hi, I have some experience with DoW, not much, but some. I'll try to help you out.

Cannon: The Galloper Gun is insanely powerfull if used correctly, i.e. marching up beside enemy infantry and Grape Shoot 'em in the sides. Damn fun, damn good. Can also be used to kill big monsters.

Halflings: Really good shooters, if you want 'em, take 'em in units of maybe 10or so. Lumpin' Crooks Fighting Cooks are actually quite good too, albeit a bit expensive.

Hotpot: Funny, and damn effective against hordes and knights, if you aim it right and have a bit of luck.

Marksmen (and other X-bowmen): Crossbowmen are always really good to have, especially the Marksmen. I say go with 'em.

Ogla Khans wolfboys: Fast cav with a decent characters. Über warmachinge/skirmisher/lone character hunters. You can even flank with 'em!

Rugluds Orcs: Have never seen these played, and I think there is a reason for that. Orcs are supposed to kick ass up close and personal, not stand around and x-bow stuff. But they are damn cool.

The Cursed Company: Wonderfull, absolutely terrifying and devastating. Use one big unit, maybe 25-30 strong. Never mind them dying, Richter always kills 2-3 guys by himself every turn, so they go up again.

Duellists: A bit weaker gamingwise now with seventh, but still really good. Awesome converting possibilities.

Pikemen: Use "normal" pikemen, or the Leopard Company for their Immunity. Use about 25-30 strong units, with full command. Try to get a character with 'em, maybe a captain or even the Paymaster.

That's the things I can say right now, ask away if you want to know anything more, I might be able to help.

lollysticky
23-10-2006, 21:27
tx for the info
i kinda was having my doubts about the rugluds aswell
2 years ago, when i wanted to create a full orc&goblin army, i wanted them as mercenaries in my army to fill the 'shooting-gap' of the poor orc archers
they just look so darn kewl :)

about the paymaster:
as described in the rules-sheets, the paymaster can have a 'bodyguard' with him as protection. Can this be a random unit that is marked as the bodyguard and therefore recieves the additional bonusses? or does it need to be a specifiek type (cc/ranged, cavalry/infantry)?

i can perhaps add some ogres to the list aswell
the more diversity, the more i like it :)

ow and the last question: those slayer pirates
i never really had it for dwarfthingies (n/o to dwarfplayers ffcourse),
but are they worth being deployed on the battlefield?

javaguru
24-10-2006, 00:22
tx for the info
i kinda was having my doubts about the rugluds aswell
2 years ago, when i wanted to create a full orc&goblin army, i wanted them as mercenaries in my army to fill the 'shooting-gap' of the poor orc archers
they just look so darn kewl :)

about the paymaster:
as described in the rules-sheets, the paymaster can have a 'bodyguard' with him as protection. Can this be a random unit that is marked as the bodyguard and therefore recieves the additional bonusses? or does it need to be a specifiek type (cc/ranged, cavalry/infantry)?

i can perhaps add some ogres to the list aswell
the more diversity, the more i like it :)

ow and the last question: those slayer pirates
i never really had it for dwarfthingies (n/o to dwarfplayers ffcourse),
but are they worth being deployed on the battlefield?

The paymaster's bodyguard is a specific unit that fills a special slot, they are human infantry armed with halberds that can upgrade to heavy armor.

Long Drongs Slayers are an excellent unit and all their atacks are str 4 AP. Long drong is no slouch either.

Crazy Harborc
24-10-2006, 00:56
I did a campaign with a DoW army. I missed my Empire handgunners when playing against Chaos. I did okay over all, magic heavy and Chaos armies were my bain.

Whatizname and his pirate, pistol packin dwarves have too short a shooting range and move too slow. I prefer to use plain old DoW crossbows. I've used regular DoW Dwarves when needing a "hard unit", they were okay.

DoW will hopefully be getting it's own list and back into the 7th Edition's armybooks before much more than one year in the life of 7th Edition.

lollysticky
24-10-2006, 10:04
The paymaster's bodyguard is a specific unit that fills a special slot, they are human infantry armed with halberds that can upgrade to heavy armor.

Long Drongs Slayers are an excellent unit and all their atacks are str 4 AP. Long drong is no slouch either.

i saw dow lists where people put the paymaster in a heavy cavalery unit or within a huge pike-formation: so you can put the paymaster in anywhere yu like, but then it doesn't count as being a 'bodyguard'-unit?

10th clancannach rangers
24-10-2006, 11:43
the pirates are great because they are unbreakable, they are not supposed to be a long range shooting unit.

Mephistofeles
24-10-2006, 12:08
Do you have the DoW-army list? If not, download it from http://uk.games-workshop.com/dogsofwar/lists/ .

There you will see that "Paymasters Bodyguard" is a unit, just as any other unit like Duellists, cannons, heavy cavalry or what ever. It's a unit like any other.

The paymaster is sometimes put in other units to give him more protection, or to use him agressively. He is after all a "Fighty" character, about the equal of a normal Human Hero Stereotype. That and his ability as a Battle Standard Bearer makes him well suited for frontline duty, if used correctly.

As for Ogres, they are good. I would recomend Bulls or Ironguts, maybe one unit of 4 or two units of 4, I'm not really an Ogre Expert :P

lollysticky
24-10-2006, 14:18
yes i have the rules
printed them all out :)

but i never came across any units in the online stores that are supposed to ressemble these bodyguards
seen the fact the paymaster is a unit that HAS to be kept alive, i want him to be wellprotected. So either he's going in a large pikeformation, or i'll give him his own bodyguard
i was planning on getting a xbowgroup first to place him in, but seen the fact they wouldn't stand a chanse if they'ld be flanked by some fast light cavalry that rushes along the tableside to the back of my army, i don't think that's a good option

jealous deva
25-10-2006, 00:44
The only core regiments of renown really worth it are ricco's republican guard and voland's venators. These are the only ones that are better enough vs the normal ones to make their costs back. Though leopardmen can of course be useful in certain situations.

The problem with the marksmen is bs 4 only will result in 33% more kills, but they cost significantly more than 33% more than normal crossbowmen. Also the heroes will rarely have much of a chance to get into combat.

Crazy Harborc
25-10-2006, 01:19
Now that characters carry a bullseye around when on their own.....into the front rank of that unit!! They will be seeing more HtH IMHO.

javaguru
25-10-2006, 03:10
The only core regiments of renown really worth it are ricco's republican guard and voland's venators. These are the only ones that are better enough vs the normal ones to make their costs back. Though leopardmen can of course be useful in certain situations.

The problem with the marksmen is bs 4 only will result in 33% more kills, but they cost significantly more than 33% more than normal crossbowmen. Also the heroes will rarely have much of a chance to get into combat.

Bragnaza's Besiegers can be useful as well. Their pavise make sthem more resistant to magic missles and otehr shooting. Bragnaza is also 10 pts cheaper than a similarly equipped hero. He has a crossbow and a high BS so he can be killing from turn 1. He also has a pistol, which means if the unit is charges the shots are taken at pistol range. Likewise, his WS, A and S mean that a player has to consider carefully before throwing units of flyers or small units of cavalry at them. This makes it easier for them to earn 100pts for holding a table quarter.

jealous deva
25-10-2006, 03:42
Yeah, but for a base price of 185 you could get 2 units of regular crossbowmen and have points left over.

Or you could get 10 crossbow dwarves with heavy armor, sheild, and great weapons, with a champion and musician if you really want 'ard crossbowmen with melee capability.

Or Ruglud's Orcs, if you have your heart set on a melee hero. Only 5+ save, but t4, choppas, and ruglud's dead 'ard.

lollysticky
25-10-2006, 06:31
i like the idea of such heavy armor crossbow-equipped dwarfes :)
but wich units should be suited to use for that?
and how to make em wear a shield, great weapon AND a crossbow :p
should be hard to ressemble on 1 unit, not?

Zilverug
25-10-2006, 09:11
i like the idea of such heavy armor crossbow-equipped dwarfes :)
but wich units should be suited to use for that?
and how to make em wear a shield, great weapon AND a crossbow :p
should be hard to ressemble on 1 unit, not?

Bugman's Rangers have (had) a shield, great weapon AND a crossbow...

lollysticky
25-10-2006, 10:54
yeah but bugman's rangers are kinda hard to get :p

jealous deva
25-10-2006, 16:17
Just use the old (pre-update) dwarf regiment plastic box. It has great weapons, shields and crossbows.

If you can't find it you can order it piecemeal. Check out here for something similar:

http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=COMP0205001&orignav=300810


This page has the part numbers you'd need.

Or just search for "dwarf AND regiment".

javaguru
25-10-2006, 16:46
Yeah, but for a base price of 185 you could get 2 units of regular crossbowmen and have points left over.

Or you could get 10 crossbow dwarves with heavy armor, sheild, and great weapons, with a champion and musician if you really want 'ard crossbowmen with melee capability.

Or Ruglud's Orcs, if you have your heart set on a melee hero. Only 5+ save, but t4, choppas, and ruglud's dead 'ard.

Crossbowmen are 8 pts a model but they are unarmored, T3 and LD7 which makes them extremely vulnerable to panic and fear. I've found them to be far too fragile to be counted on for anything, I consider them throwaway points. I've seen units melt on turn one under a hail of bowfire/magic missiles without firing a shot. Not to mention positioning 20 models for optimal LoS and firing position is more difficult than positioning ten, as well as being harder to support if necessary. Bragnaza gives his boys an effective LD8. Ensures all stand and shoots will be at close range and is likely to drop an armored knight with his pistol shot.

Dwarves are a special choice and 14 pts a model, Bragnazas are 11 pts and not as hard in combat but I only need them to fight off small units of skirmishers, light cav and flyers. Lothern seaguard are the perfect example of a unit that can fight and shoot but too expensive for what it does. Rugluds is more expensive than bragnazas and harder in HTH but have a habit of suffering from animosity at the worst possible time. Honestly, if I want to burn a special slot on a hard shooting unit I'm getting the manflayers or maneaters with handguns. Truth be told, I don't even field core shooting units anymore because of the manflayers and maneaters. I've always felt bragnaza's was a nice compromise between cost/reliability Vs. counter missile fire and fighting ability against missile unit killing HTH units.

javaguru
25-10-2006, 17:08
i like the idea of such heavy armor crossbow-equipped dwarfes :)
but wich units should be suited to use for that?
and how to make em wear a shield, great weapon AND a crossbow :p
should be hard to ressemble on 1 unit, not?

Maybe have the shield on the base, dropped in cc, while holding the GW and X-bow slung on the back?

lollysticky
25-10-2006, 21:35
Dwarves are a special choice and 14 pts a model

if yu chose the dwarves core choice, that's 7 points
+ heavy armor + shield = 9 points
+ great weapon + crossbow = 16 points

then i'll have a killer cc unit that can deal out some ranged damage aswell
if i put my paymaster in this unit, i'll also have the stubborn rule.
and with the 7th edition rule, the paymaster will count as a full BSB, so that will also add some more bonusses

is it allowed to put a 'human' paymaster in a dwarvenregiment?
or can i alter some dwarf to a 'dwarf paymaster'
just to make it stand nice with the unit

jealous deva
25-10-2006, 21:39
It doesn't really matter though that dwarfs are 14 points vs 11 points for crossbowmen when you're only going to get 10 of them anyway. A unit of 10 dwarves with full command is cheaper than a unit of 10 marksmen. The hero included in with the crossbowmen which will be rarely used brings up the cost, and so does the command you're forced to take (lets face it, you're probably not going to take a standard bearer on a crossbow unit if you have a choice, so that makes it even cheaper, even though for the sake of comparison I'm including them in the cost of the dwarves.)

I can understand wanting to save a special slot though.

lollysticky
25-10-2006, 21:58
what do you suggest now?

taking those slayer pirates (special choice) or taking core dwarf units
and wich equipment would you give em?

javaguru
25-10-2006, 23:59
what do you suggest now?

taking those slayer pirates (special choice) or taking core dwarf units
and wich equipment would you give em?

A dwarf unit takes a special slot in a DoW army, just like the slayers. It depends on what you want to do. Slayers are great at holding a flank as they will never run and they are festooned with pistols(their attacks are always S4 AP). A dwarf unit is obviously best used in a more defensive/ slow moving army as opposed to a fast moving one(ogres and cavalry).

javaguru
26-10-2006, 00:04
if yu chose the dwarves core choice, that's 7 points
+ heavy armor + shield = 9 points
+ great weapon + crossbow = 16 points

then i'll have a killer cc unit that can deal out some ranged damage aswell
if i put my paymaster in this unit, i'll also have the stubborn rule.
and with the 7th edition rule, the paymaster will count as a full BSB, so that will also add some more bonusses

is it allowed to put a 'human' paymaster in a dwarvenregiment?
or can i alter some dwarf to a 'dwarf paymaster'
just to make it stand nice with the unit

Yes, he can join the regiment but only the specific 0-1 unit "paymasters bodygurd" gets stubborn and it's the only unit that can take a magic banner(war banner). You can download the rules here; http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/gaming/dogsofwar/default.htm

lollysticky
26-10-2006, 07:51
yeah the pdf files don't supply that much info (imo) :/

Zilverug
26-10-2006, 08:55
I (almost) always put my paymaster in a unit of Dwarf crossbowmen with heavy armour, hand weapon and shield. The paymaster also holds a crossbow, heavy armour, hand weapon and shield. The Dwarfs left their own standard bearer at home, since the paymaster himself already counts as a standard.

lollysticky
26-10-2006, 12:36
i'm gonna do the same
dwarfs+shield+crossbow+heavyarmor+great weapon (only 2 points more/unit)
and put my paymaster in this unit

javaguru
26-10-2006, 13:51
I (almost) always put my paymaster in a unit of Dwarf crossbowmen with heavy armour, hand weapon and shield. The paymaster also holds a crossbow, heavy armour, hand weapon and shield. The Dwarfs left their own standard bearer at home, since the paymaster himself already counts as a standard.

In 7th a BsB stacks on top of the regiments banner, so unit banner and BSB =+2 to CR. (see "Combat Bonus" pg.82) This makes it more attractive to put him in his bodyguard as they are the only unit that can take the war banner.

lollysticky
26-10-2006, 14:14
but his bodyguard has...... halberds :(
so like 20 bodyguards (with heavy armor) = 200 pts
stubborn
+ the BSB bonus

is this unit worth putting then?

javaguru
26-10-2006, 23:33
but his bodyguard has...... halberds :(
so like 20 bodyguards (with heavy armor) = 200 pts
stubborn
+ the BSB bonus

is this unit worth putting then?

Well, it's the only way to get a war banner and stubborn is an excellent ability. A stubborn unit can be a game winner and WS4, S4 is nothing to laugh at from a "normal"human unit. Since an army battle standard now "stacks" I've considered putting my truthsayer in the unit, ld9 and 2 S5 attacks at ws4 and a 4+ ward save. With the paymaster that only leaves the command group in the front rank. It would make a very hard center for the army with an infantry unit on either side, Ricco's would be nice and perhaps ogres or the bearmen/Cursed company. I think 255 points for 20 models with full command and the war banner is reasonable. Another tactic is to use the unit to hold a flank, with the re-roll it's unlikely to break from combat, so no worries about flank charges against your pikes.

As a note, I generally use lores heavy in "unit enhancing" magic with my DoW as we can't rely on magic item heavy lords/heroes to win the day. That's why I love the Truthsayer, and it doesn't take a lord choice, I also like the lore of light for DoW.

Crazy Harborc
28-10-2006, 20:42
javaguru.....thank you for the idea. I've not checked out the Truthsayer. I'll be doing so now.;)

Pacman
29-10-2006, 13:16
Chances are, what's going to kill your paymaster is the unit he's in being broken (since he's not going to be accepting any challenges)

For that reason a large stubborn block of troops with a war banner and heavy armour is a great choice. Obviously it'd be nice to be able to give them sheild and hand weapon but you can't have it all, I guess.

DoW don't have any outstanding units, but some are pretty good, and you can usually get plenty of troops. Use them all together and it can be pretty hard for your opponent to find the chinks in your battle line.

javaguru
30-10-2006, 01:41
Chances are, what's going to kill your paymaster is the unit he's in being broken (since he's not going to be accepting any challenges)

For that reason a large stubborn block of troops with a war banner and heavy armour is a great choice. Obviously it'd be nice to be able to give them sheild and hand weapon but you can't have it all, I guess.

DoW don't have any outstanding units, but some are pretty good, and you can usually get plenty of troops. Use them all together and it can be pretty hard for your opponent to find the chinks in your battle line.

More than any army, DoW is about using units to win battles as opposed to tricked out magic armed characters. Always take a champion in a unit you're going to place the paymaster, for challenge purposes.