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Paddy
23-10-2006, 21:09
Well, damn nearly :cries:

Check this out:


Greetings my fellow hobbyists on this fine autumnal October Friday. This issue of Fanatic Online marks a change in how we publish our online content. From today Fanatic Online will go from a weekly to a monthly publication. This is so we can increase the quality of our output and will also allow me to take on some more long-term Specialist Games projects that a weekly update currently prevents me from doing.

The editorials to the new monthly Fanatic Online will become, longer, more substantial and dare I say it even rambling affairs as I address and highlight topics that veteran gamers like ourselves can really get our teeth into and debate. The articles themselves will increase in quality, of course Ill still be reliant on you folks to provide me with the raw content in the first place. The website will continue as before with news blogs as and when, Player Aid file and experimental rule updates, as a repository for our Online rulebooks, the forum and a games archive.

I am not a happy monkey, but am feeling more than a little bit cynical at the moment. :mad:

2_heads_talking
23-10-2006, 21:25
Was that Jervis who wrote that?

Hmm... wonder what those "long-term Specialist Games projects" are, exactly? Becaus I mean, all those "Standard Bearer" articles must take up so much of his time...

Hmm... let's see... between practically telling us that, even if you don't need them, BUY BIG MODELS! then he sits and gives one of his members of staff a literary medal and expects us all to go "Ooooh, isn't he great?"

Sorry... I'm also feeling rather cynical, and I actually really like Jervis Johnson(one of my favourite team members since his battle report in the Space Wolves codex gainst the Orks)!

Darkseer
23-10-2006, 21:28
How did they manage to do it weekly? That'd be a hell of a lot of work.

Cerberus
23-10-2006, 21:38
not really. as i gather it was just organise the odd competition, then write a bit about the best submissions they've got in that week. i'd say the majority of work goes into rules reviewing and the like, and dare i say it, perhaps a new game... (if only)

Paddy
23-10-2006, 21:50
How did they manage to do it weekly? That'd be a hell of a lot of work.

3 Articles a week, over 7 systems - and most competition entries could give at least 3 articles. Not really much beyond converting the submissions to PDF format.

TKitch
23-10-2006, 22:32
Y'all just hate GW and love to bitch about it don't you?

You do realize andy is ALONE in this venture presently, and he doesn't have autonomy in what he does, he has to report to HIS bossess and do what they tell him to do.

For one man to do this, it's rather difficult. Not to mention all the other responsibilities he has. He does a lot of work, and is a busy guy.

I'm sorry if you don't like it, but don't bitch about Andy H. or SG. If you want to complain, mail the management in GW and let them know how YOU feel about their treatment of SG.

Cerberus
24-10-2006, 00:47
Y'all just hate GW and love to bitch about it don't you?


Well this is the internet...:D

But in all seriousness, I've total respect for Andy. He must be damned dedicated to his job and/or hobby to keep doing what he does. But the majority of specialist games work at the moment is just moderating/reviewing/editing type stuff, which admittedly is hard work, but as far as not having to do a 3/4 paragraph 'newsletter' and attaching a few good files to it, it doesn't seem like a particularly drastic change in work load.

I'd say the main reason behind switching to a monthly from a weekly submission (forgetting the dreaded 'slowly killing off SG rumour') is so he has even more time to filter the really really good work out from all the stuff he gets (which I say is a lot seeing as he has all the forums to manage as well as normal submissions), and also he'll probably have more time to work on a monthly one, so it's more like standard bearer or a mini fanatic magazine with sections for all games, as it's longer and therefore will require a more substantial use of time and resources, so he'll be able to do it properly, as opposed to something that looks like a it's-friday-evening- and-i'm-really-tired-so-i'll-just-do-this-really-quickly-so-I-can-go-home type thing. To summarise, I think this change is for the best at SG, and I can see it being a definite improvment to and for the SG community.

P.S. sorry for all the commas, I've had a lot of sugar today.

TKitch
24-10-2006, 01:16
Actually Andy is planning some interesting moves for SG, but he needs more time to work out the details on how it could go.

The move of FO to monthly is one step in this. He's asked that nobody spread rumors about what the plans are, but he does have some neat stuff in the works.

fracas
24-10-2006, 02:10
Actually Andy is planning some interesting moves for SG, but he needs more time to work out the details on how it could go.

The move of FO to monthly is one step in this. He's asked that nobody spread rumors about what the plans are, but he does have some neat stuff in the works.



dude

don't tease us like that

firestorm40k
24-10-2006, 07:59
So long as this 'cool stuff' involves the release of Epic Chaos & 'Nids within the next 2-3 years, I'll be a very happy man ;) :cool:

precinctomega
24-10-2006, 09:24
Like Tkitch, I'll say: lay off Andy and SG. I have high hopes for what Andy has planned.

R.

75hastings69
24-10-2006, 09:28
I have high hopes too, BB has all but been forgotten about. I can't even find anyone to play!!!!

I need new BB minis.

The Ape
24-10-2006, 12:37
I cant help but feel decidedly underwhelmed by your statement that he has something planned.

All I'm seeing is a continual decline in the support of SG by GW and I just dont see that situation changing for the better any time soon!

Odin
24-10-2006, 12:38
It makes perfect sense to make Fanatic Online a monthly release. At the moment you just get a dribble of stuff which is sometimes for your favourite SG, sometimes not. Much better to do a proper job of it and have a good solid monthly issue, with something for every Specialist Game.

Some people will complain about anything.

precinctomega
24-10-2006, 12:39
Go check out the stuff available from Heresy and Hasslefree Miniatures.

BB is an awesome game (I confess, I don't play but I've got several enthusiasts in my club who have persuaded me of its worth). Get yourself two teams and run some demo games at your local shop or club.

R.

Jedi152
24-10-2006, 12:41
I have high hopes too, BB has all but been forgotten about. I can't even find anyone to play!!!!
Same problem. I spent ages assembling my night gobbo team too.

TKitch
24-10-2006, 12:51
Sorry, but that's all I'm allowed to say right now on the subject.

SG has no plans of going the dodo presently. Andy is doing his best with the limited time and manpower he has to keep everything afloat.

Do you really think you could keep 5 game systems going ALONE?!?!

No? Didn't think so.

I keep up with Mordheim exclusively, and it ties up a LOT of time by itself.

Hena
24-10-2006, 15:27
Epic's in a weird situation as most of the rules creators are players. So we (as all epic players) probably can keep that up as long as we get minis for all the major races to be available. If this moves helps in that ... I'll be a happy.

Chaos and Evil
24-10-2006, 15:51
So long as this 'cool stuff' involves the release of Epic Chaos & 'Nids within the next 2-3 years, I'll be a very happy man ;) :cool:

Andy told me that Chaos will be released in Feb '07. That's three months from now. :)

'nids in Feb '08.

The Ape
24-10-2006, 16:09
SG has no plans of going the dodo presently. Andy is doing his best with the limited time and manpower he has to keep everything afloat.

Do you really think you could keep 5 game systems going ALONE?!?!

No? Didn't think so.



I'm not dissing Andy in any way. I just dont think GW are giving him or SG the support that these great games deserve.

I recall Fanatic magazine coming out, then it being cancelled after only 10 issues and GW saying that it will be replaced by a weekly newsletter "which is better than a magazine". Then SG being "almagamated" back into the main studio so "everyone could work on it".

Now the bulletin has dropped to once a month - what next? Bi-monthly? Annually?

Excuse my cynicism but it's based on experience and refusing to believe whatever GW say unless taken with a healthy pinch of salt.

Acolyte of Bli'l'ab
24-10-2006, 16:34
I really do wish Forge World took over Epic from SG personally. Their tau and daemonunters look awesome, I could only imagine how great their necrons would look too. *drools at the thought* :)

jp22102000
25-10-2006, 01:15
forge world should take over specialist period i think. then SG would get the backing it deserves

fracas
25-10-2006, 01:58
i don't mind a monthly news letter if the quality of the articles are better.
each game system should get at least one article and one game system should be highlighted each month.

TKitch
25-10-2006, 02:06
I'm expecting something relatively similar to that when it comes out next month. Possibly as much as 2 articles per system (But I'm not going to hold my breath)

Although, I still expect BoFA to be left in the cold, it doesn't get much attention, ANYWHERE.

ghost21
25-10-2006, 04:14
epic necrons would be cool , but fw would be great at doing all the specialist games

fw escher annyone?

Jedi152
25-10-2006, 06:33
forge world should take over specialist period i think. then SG would get the backing it deserves
Probably not. FW would double it's workload and probably concentrate on the 40k stuff they produce.

75hastings69
25-10-2006, 07:23
Besides FW are pretty much stretched to their limit anyway. They would not be able to give SG the support/time it would require. A shame as I believe FW could do an excellent job with BB teams.

Acolyte of Bli'l'ab
25-10-2006, 09:08
Good points all round, it is just a wish for me though. Epic used to afteral be the third "Core game", so in my eyes it would make sense if forge world took it over for their own.

The Ape
25-10-2006, 11:22
They've pretty much done it with the air combat game

rkunisch
25-10-2006, 11:26
I really do wish Forge World took over Epic from SG personally. Their tau and daemonunters look awesome, I could only imagine how great their necrons would look too. *drools at the thought* :)


forge world should take over specialist period i think. then SG would get the backing it deserves


epic necrons would be cool , but fw would be great at doing all the specialist games

fw escher annyone?

I think it is the wrong idea of how Specialist Games could work. Sure, it is better that Forge World makes some minis than nobody, but it is not exactly the right realm for them. Resin is not very suited to make small models - yes, it works, but metal is simply better suited here. Although I think Forge World makes incredible models, I do not see that their modelling capabilities are better than those at GW Studio or (former) Specialist Games. Tony Cotrell, the head of Forge World, has some free hand on what he may or may not produce. That explains why some models (like Epic Tau) were made.

@TKitch: Sorry, if I do not hold my breath after your announcement. I heard similar ones from Specialist Games over and over again. Every time, I get my expectations up, I was deeply disappointed. Specialist Games died shortly after they switched to Fanatic Magazine.

And before someone asks, how many article I have wrote for them: I wrote none. Not because, I did not made some new units/house rules/scenarios up myself, but because I think this is not what support is about. The last time I checked, Games Workshop was a business which tried to sold me something, I could not make myself. When all "support" they offer is a forum with fan fiction/articles, it is no support at all.

Specialist Games (as a GW business) is dead.

I have no problem, if a business decides to discontinue some product. Most of them do. I only hate to be lied to. And exactly that is what Specialist Games has done.

Have fun,

Rolf.

Acolyte of Bli'l'ab
25-10-2006, 12:05
Yeah, I dont really see it as "support" either myself. I dont care about playing any of the games, im just one of those people who enjoy buying models and painting them so for me the fanatic online magazine existing or not existing doesnt interest me either way.

'Resin is not very suited to make small models - yes, it works, but metal is simply better suited here.'

I take your point, but iv had no problem with the resin tau and daemonhunters models myself. Allthough I agree metal does suit the infantry far more, especially if the infantry and base are one model.

Like I said in another post, I actually sculptured my own necrons (they are the old range though) but I have no idea if getting them cast and/or giving them away for free would be illegal or not, as I dont really want to break any law so they've been in a box in a drawer for years now : (

Grimshawl
25-10-2006, 17:38
I'm in the dont hold your breath catagory of cynic as well, I've held out hope and waited two years or so watching Epic re-emerge as another good edition and then slowly die in the cradle thanks to GW/SGs treatment of it. What support their is is strictly fan driven at this point and no matter how much I might Like Jervis or Andy doesnt change that Jervis does nothing for SGs anymore that is tangible and that Andys contributons to turning fan written submisions into PDFs and a weekly paragraph or two are not labor intensive or particularly time consuming either. the truth is not much gets done for the specialist games and switching a weekly fan driven tiny three article online mag into a monthly affair does not constitute better support, at this point Andy and SGs and GW need to show me results or just shut it.
Nebulous promises somewhere down the line can be stiffled too, Lets see actual results.

TKitch
25-10-2006, 17:40
Grimmy, retract that last statement! Someone might read it and take the latter option! :/


I'm not arguing that support has been lacking, because it has. However, there is more going on behind the scenes than most folks are aware of.

Grimshawl
25-10-2006, 17:45
Your kidding right, I could get a bull horn and scream my discontent into GW HQ untill I was blue in the face or they had someone haull me away and they wouldnt care and yet you are trying to convice me I should worry they'll see my justified disparaging comments somewhere on the internet and decide to shut down their grand plans based on this? I've corresponded with both Jervis and Andy and a host of the mods on the SG forums at one time or another as well as other GW reps about my disatisfaction thru all the stages of SGs dwindling support so anyone who wanted or needed to hear my opinion should be well aware of it by now.

Chaos and Evil
25-10-2006, 19:18
Here's an email I got from Andy about this topic.


Hi,

We've changed the frequency to free me up (Fanatic Online was taking up a substantial part of my wek) to work on other SG related projects one of which is to get SG back into the GW mainstream. So, their is no need to worry. These games are not going away. (I hadn't asked about this but Andy obviously feels it's worth mentioning!)

It also means we can increase the quality of the FO artyicles when we do publish them.

Cheers
Andy

The Ape
26-10-2006, 10:49
I am of the same opinion as Grimshawl.

I'll believe the games will get better support when I see it - the email from Andy isnt particularly conclusive is it?

Until then, I will take the statements of people who allegedly have contacts and "know what is going on" with a handful of salt.

Chaos and Evil
26-10-2006, 12:35
I am of the same opinion as Grimshawl.

...

Until then, I will take the statements of people who allegedly have contacts and "know what is going on" with a handful of salt.

I'm sure Grimshawl will be happy to confirm that I'm not lying.

That doesn't mean that the carpet isn't liable to be pulled out from under Andy H at a moment's notice, but he is fighting our corner, make no mistake of it.

Grimshawl
26-10-2006, 14:49
We will see, Andy has stated what you posted, however if it comes to anything is another matter entirely. Talk is cheap, especially regarding promises of support for the SGs.

The Ape
26-10-2006, 15:40
I'm sure Grimshawl will be happy to confirm that I'm not lying.


No personal offence was intended. However only a gullible man/ape would take anything said on a public forum as being cast in iron.

I truly hope that what you are alluding to comes to pass. I just dont expect it to.

Acolyte of Bli'l'ab
26-10-2006, 18:14
i agree with The Ape, im not going to get my hopes up with this but I do hope it is true.

Vampirecount7
26-10-2006, 19:09
Hi, new to this site. I really hope that SG gets back to being an organized expanding section again. 3 years ago I started with Epic, after promising myself that I would never get involved with GW because of their pricing. ( I have been wargaming historically for 30 years). However, due to the fantastic Epic gaming system I now have the following: 20,000 points Epic Sapace Marines, 15,000 points Epic Eldar, 15,000 Epic Orcs, 3000 points 40K Space Marine White Scars, 3,000 points for all X3 Bretonians, Vampire Counts and Orcs and Goblins. Lets hope that the monthly issue will bring in new people to the game, as I have had a lot of fun in the last 3 years.

Acolyte of Bli'l'ab
26-10-2006, 19:48
Hi vampirecount, impressive army lists there. I agree with the prices too, I always thought it was cool when you bought one of thsoe £5 boxes you practically got a whole army inside it lol

I really hope if anything epic continues, Iv wanted my epic necs for years and unfortuantly I dont have the money to spend on ebaying those chaos androids.

Chaos and Evil
26-10-2006, 20:43
No personal offence was intended. However only a gullible man/ape would take anything said on a public forum as being cast in iron.

No problemo.

mark_logue
29-10-2006, 05:05
My theory is to just keep playing and promoting the games that I love. I already have a copy of the rules (and legally for free) and can generally find miniatures to represent the forces I wan't to use (not necessarily from GW), so I don't really see things as too glum. If we all keep playing and building up the games we love then maybe GW will release more stuff for them, if we all quit because they currently aren't supporting cirtain games then they will have no market to release products to.

fracas
29-10-2006, 11:01
i know it is nice to get "support" for the games we love but how much support do games like chess or manopoly get?
all i want is for them to complete all the armies they need to and then to keep selling the game

more and new armies are icing

Grimshawl
29-10-2006, 14:21
I dont know how much support Chess or Monopolly get, however I would point out that my entire life every single piece to play either game has been available for purchase, obviously Epic and the specialist games do not have near this level of support.
And yes I know this is a squewed comparison, but then again, so is comparing epic or any of the specialist games to chess or monopolly.

At this point just putting out the minatures for chaos and nids would be alot of help without more years going by.

Belisarius
29-10-2006, 19:12
heres my two cents worth
First i believe Andy really is in our cornor and is fighting for these game systems. Second Specialist games is in no way getting the support it needs or deserves. Third I don't know if andy can change it by himself and it comes down to the big boys GW hq actually doing something. As it is they can pull the carpet out on Andy and the rest of us in a heartbeat.
GW not supporting specialist games is sad given their finiancial situation. Take BB for example an easy to learn game with great replay value easy to fit in on a number of cons and tourneys. Personally i think outriders should run BB games and even mini tourneys at most Cons that take place with demo teams and the like to hook new players. let's face it play BB once and you have a great time maybe even want to break into it. This will increase sales and thus revenue for GW revenue that could have a percentage of it set aside for specialist games. Then you got BG with shows like BSg out there again you can attract a ton of intrest in the game. The opportunities for Warmaster or Epic could easily be promoted within white dwarf or like they did a few years back with the fantasy campaign book do one for the 40k universe incorporating epic 40k and BFG compiling articles and linking them including terrain making scenarios campaign charts and the like and selling it like the warhammer campaign book. I'm sure by doing these things you could quickly increase revenue and as that is what the suits are looking for it is a smart move.
Now doubtless I am about to hear about current sales for the games or the dificulty in getting new players into a system that has all the support of a worm on a fishing hook. I said before i don't believe Andy can do this alone and i currently think the way to improve a lot of aspects to GW hobbies is with gaming clubs and the like. In my Gaming Club I am one of the old guys at 28 we have two who are older (by ten years and 6) but we have a lot of young gamers and early tweenty somethings. The young gamers respect the skills and playing abilities of us older gamers. Gothic and BB are on an upswing in Duluth MN because we have been introducing it to the younger generation and getting them in the game. We have also run tournaments at the local area cons and attracted players from a ways off to attend simply because these games are being sponsered. Now you do that with say fifty to a hundred clubs you can push the demand for models for these systems and give Andy a bit more leverage with the guys at GW hq after all if sales are up nearly 50% or higher he can probably get a little more support from GW by pointing that fact out. he does that perhaps we see completed armies and better things happening.
That's just my two cents worth feel free to agree or disagree.

TKitch
30-10-2006, 04:24
You need to look at this from GW's stance.

They sell minis to make money. (The rulebooks are a nice bonus, but minis are their bread and butter.)

Bloodbowl doesn't fit that well. For 50$(ish) you can complete a team for BBL. Then you're entirely capable of being done with buying. If you want more teams, that's a different story, but stilll the output for 6 blood bowl teams is less than 1 normal 40K or Fantasy army. (And how many people do you know with 6 full bloodbowl teams?)

The other games are similar. You spend a relatively small amount (in a GW sense) for a complete force. This doens't mesh with their desire to get people to buy more and more models.

rkunisch
30-10-2006, 08:00
Yes, you are right of course. That is the main problem of Specialist Games. The only argument for some of the games is, that they are perfect to recruit newbies. Blood Bowl can be done with minimal investment - buy the box and you are done. It could even be distributed over standard channels. That is also true for Mordheim, Necromunda and Battle of Five Armies as well as partly for Battlefleet Gothic (the models in the box are not really sufficient to make decent games). Inquisitor, Warmaster and Epic are different as you cannot buy a box for them.

I also do not think that investing in Specialist Games will change something substantial. The base idea is sound, but the reality is different. Currently, Games Workshop makes it really difficult to get hold of the range. It is completely removed from normal distribution channels, so a normal GW shop or a FLGS has no chance to get them. In the online stores the items are available, but are given a second class handling (are those BFG escorts now available in the US online store?).

It is quite obvious that GW abandoned the range - they simply had not told us yet officially.

Have fun,

Rolf.

The Ape
30-10-2006, 12:37
It is quite obvious that GW abandoned the range - they simply had not told us yet officially.



I really hope you are wrong on that, but I can see how you have reached that conclusion.

You know there's something wrong when the manager objects to you playing SG games in store (despite the armies being fully painted).

Still, wait and see I guess

Persephone
02-11-2006, 19:17
Doesn't a lot come down to how much GW feels like advertising and pushing them in stores?

Agamemnon2
02-11-2006, 20:02
Let's have a show of hands here: Who's honestly surprised that SG got the shaft again? GW doesn't even have the decency to axe the product lines flat-out, instead they kill them by inches.

TKitch
03-11-2006, 04:30
I don't see it.

Epic and Warmaster BOTH have new armies coming out this february, and There's a revised BFG rulebook in the works for printing. (Hopefully by xmas)

I don't think it's going the dodo right now.

rkunisch
03-11-2006, 07:42
I don't see it.

Epic and Warmaster BOTH have new armies coming out this february, and There's a revised BFG rulebook in the works for printing. (Hopefully by xmas)

I don't think it's going the dodo right now.
Well, I hope you are right. Those two new armies are promised for quite a while now. I will not hold my breath anymore. :(

I look forward to a revised BFG rulebook, but if it is like the other SG book releases, there will be printed about a dozent which are sold out instantly. :eyebrows:

Have fun,

Rolf.

The Ape
03-11-2006, 08:16
And then that's it for releases until 2008.

Assuming SG still exists in 2008.

TKitch
03-11-2006, 12:10
SG is supposed to have 2 releases a year, and so far has dome something for each of them.

So theere should be another one august (ish) of 07 as well. We usually find out what's hitting a couple months beforehand.

rkunisch
03-11-2006, 13:06
@TKitch: After GW revealed that they close down their main forums, how long do you think the SG forums will be kept?

Have fun,

Rolf.

Grimshawl
03-11-2006, 13:29
I don't see it.

Epic and Warmaster BOTH have new armies coming out this february, and There's a revised BFG rulebook in the works for printing. (Hopefully by xmas)

I don't think it's going the dodo right now.

They revealed they are just planning on releasing the old Chaos infantry sprue, hardly what one would call an entire army release. The aparent loss of all the chaos vehicles, titans, deamon princes, deamon engines, flyers, etc. molds definitely curtails the use of the word army. And Chaos was supposed to be released in August of this year, I guess will see if they actually release in Feb next year or not.

TKitch
03-11-2006, 13:43
@TKitch: After GW revealed that they close down their main forums, how long do you think the SG forums will be kept?

Have fun,

Rolf.

We shall see.

There is a far bit of pointing out that SG and Black Library are completely separate from the rest of GW's stuff. (It's sort of under it's own management, kinda, but not entirely.)

I don't think it's going away. Andy H. visits the forum at least once a week, and he actually keeps a halfway decent handle on what's happening. The rest of the time it's run very smoothly.

It's also the primary communication of some of the SG line, as opposed to WFB & 40K. Mordheim doesn't have a good online forum, other than there. Some do, such as Epic, but otherwise I can't say for sure.

I honestly don't see it going away.

rkunisch
03-11-2006, 14:38
I honestly don't see it going away.
That is good to hear. Well, it seamed always more civilized than the common GW boards - apart from a little bitching about the missing support. ;)

Have fun,

Rolf.

Grimshawl
03-11-2006, 15:37
Actually GW reabsorbed Specialist Games and the Fanatics some time ago, ergo why there is only one Fanatic left aka Andy H and why Jervis no longer is active on behalf of specialist games. They are no longer seperate from GW.

Chaos and Evil
03-11-2006, 16:57
And then that's it for releases until 2008.

Assuming SG still exists in 2008.

"Epic Tyranids are in the Feb' '08 slot" - Andy Hall to me at GamesDay '06.


The Mars-fleet / Voss prow BFG ships are out there somewhere too.

Jedi152
07-11-2006, 07:31
The Mars-fleet / Voss prow BFG ships are out there somewhere too.
Haven't they been 'out there' for about the last 2-3 years?

Consider breath not held.

Acolyte of Bli'l'ab
07-11-2006, 07:53
They revealed they are just planning on releasing the old Chaos infantry sprue, hardly what one would call an entire army release. The aparent loss of all the chaos vehicles, titans, deamon princes, deamon engines, flyers, etc. molds definitely curtails the use of the word army. And Chaos was supposed to be released in August of this year, I guess will see if they actually release in Feb next year or not.

Well, thats kind of sucky.. I really liked that they made the infantry units all seperate and into metal infantry stands. I thought that was a huge improvement. I guess my most wanted 40k related thing ever will never happen at all (Epic necrons). :(

Chaos and Evil
07-11-2006, 16:21
Haven't they been 'out there' for about the last 2-3 years?

Consider breath not held.

Andy H is a good bloke, he'll get them out eventually... it's just that SG doesn't have the budget to release all of its backlog at once. :(