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English 2000
28-10-2006, 22:41
Hi there, I'm wondering what people think of my Bret list, and how it can be improved.

First of all let me explain my playing style:

1) As per my sig, I HATE all cav lists, hence why there is a lot of infantry in here.
2) In all of my armies I like to make sure every unit is either a threat, a roadblock or a thorn in the side of my enemy.
3) I like to win with superior tactics rather than killer heroes.
4) I like to do things differently to other players (hence my infantry heavy brets and HE armies, massed Bret archers etc)

So, without further ado, here is my list:

24 Men at Arms, full command
24 Men at Arms, full command
16 Archers, standard, musician, stakes, braziers
16 Archers, standard, musician, stakes, braziers
Trebuchet

8 Knights of the Realm, full command, war banner
8 Knights of the Realm, full command
6 Questing Knights, full command
3 Pegasus Knights

Damsel, level 2, dispel scroll, chalace of malfleur
Damsel, level 2, dispel scroll, dispell scroll
Paladin, Battle Standard, Barded Steed, Virtue of Duty (+1 combat res)
Lord, Barded Steed, heavy armour, shield, lance, Virtue of Discipline (enemy cannot get +1 for outnumbering)

Total = 1997 points.

Damsels go with men at arms. No one sees men at arms as a threat so will ignore them unless they are keen to get rid of my magic. That's fine with me because it means there is less attention on my knights.

Archers are there to counter enemy skirmishers and fast cav. Especially fast cav. It is unusual for me to go to war without fast cav, but the points don't allow it unless I drop some archers which I don't want to do. Two units will on average drop a giant in 2-3 turns. A lot of people around here use giants. I place them in an 8x2 formation. +1 for rank, +1 for outnumber, +1 for standard and possibly +1 for higher ground combined with stakes means that fast cav, skirmishers and chariots are not a threat. This forces my opponent to either ignore my archers or send something more dangerous at them. This will take time and means one less combat unit for my knights to deal with.

Trebuchet - The wildcard. A lucky shot can take out a chaos lord, heavy cav or large infantry unit. This alone makes the opponent want to kill it. Archers and Men at Arms tend to get in the way and force him to commit more resources against my firebase meaning my knights get less attention.

Lord rides with KOTR carrying war banner.
Paladin BSB goes with 2nd KOTR unit.
QK - taken despite being far less useful this edition simply because I love the models and don't have the points (or models) for Grail Knights.

So, what do you think of this army? How would you improve it? How would you massacre it? What are the glaring weaknessess??

MarcoPollo
29-10-2006, 03:26
I think that this is a great list. Well balanced indeed. I too will patern my own army after a list like this. It is always good to have the static CR with men at arms. I only have a few suggestions/questions.

1) The number of archers in the list makes 32. Why not have 3 units of 10 and no braziers. Or have one at 20 (skirmish) and one at 10 with stakes. This can give more manouverability and the ability with three at 10 each to divide up your shooting a little better. This may be able to free up a few more points in order to upgrade some other stuff.

2) I also have a few QK painted too and they look cool. But they are pretty crappy. I usually ask if the models can be used as knights errant or grail knights. Most everyone that I game with knows that QK got severly nerfed and they also agree that the moustached men are worth the proxy on the battle field. Depends upon how anal your WYSIWYG is amongst your group.

3) What Duties are your characters?

4) This list looks like a very good counter strike force that forces your opponents into traps etc. I think if you can find the other 90 pts in there, a second trebuchet would go quite well in helping you to get those "lucky shots" off and force you opponent to come to you. You can protect them fairly well with men at army and PK. Might be a little cheesy but you might not get that much grief if you have as many men at arms as you do.

5) What do you think about the mane of the purebred on one of your damsels instead of 3 dispell scrolls. It is about 25 pts too.

English 2000
29-10-2006, 15:16
2) I also have a few QK painted too and they look cool. But they are pretty crappy. I usually ask if the models can be used as knights errant or grail knights. Most everyone that I game with knows that QK got severly nerfed and they also agree that the moustached men are worth the proxy on the battle field. Depends upon how anal your WYSIWYG is amongst your group.

3) What Duties are your characters?

4) This list looks like a very good counter strike force that forces your opponents into traps etc. I think if you can find the other 90 pts in there, a second trebuchet would go quite well in helping you to get those "lucky shots" off and force you opponent to come to you. You can protect them fairly well with men at army and PK. Might be a little cheesy but you might not get that much grief if you have as many men at arms as you do.

5) What do you think about the mane of the purebred on one of your damsels instead of 3 dispell scrolls. It is about 25 pts too.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the feedback, I'll try to address all of your questions:

For the archers you are right that splitting them up or having them skirmish will be more effective in terms of shooting, however some of the reasons I like the 16 strong units are:
a) Looks good
b) Have half decent static combat res from rank, standard, possibly outnumber and possibly higher ground
c) Can reform into 3 ranks if the situation gets really desperate for an extra rank
d) I think smaller units are much easier for enemy fast cav to kill, hence making them bigger and more difficult to kill...either he ignores them or sends something more substantial than fast cav to kill them. Either way it's a win-win for me

2) WYSIWYG isn't too big a deal in my group so I can certainly experiment with my QK.

3) BSB has +1 combat resolution and Lord has the one to stop the enemy getting +1 for outnumbering

4) I would love to have a second trebuchet, however after GW's last price hike *ahem* I mean "price adjustment" I decided that I wouldn't be buying any more GW models for a good looooooooooong time. I do agree though, that a second trebuchet would be fantastic.

5) Both of my damsels are on foot hence why there is no mane of the purebreed. Originally I was planning to put my damsels in with my knights but I didn't like the idea of having two juicy targets in one unit and I wanted to give my opponent a reason to kill my men at arms instead of my knights.

English 2000
29-10-2006, 15:30
4) This list looks like a very good counter strike force that forces your opponents into traps etc.

This is exactly how I use this list against armies that I know will be coming across the board at me. Thankfully not everyone sees that until it's too late. For example the kid that was watching me play yesterday who was shaking his head and rolling his eyes at me when I didn't charge on turn 2, and then even more so when not only didn't charge on turn 3, but backed away from the enemy Of course my masterplan was revealed in turn 4 when both of my KotR units, both men at arms units and PK units charged in and eliminated almost his entire army in a single turn. :)

One of my favourite things to do in Warhammer is have people stand around telling me I should be doing this or that to win and telling me I'm doing things wrong. The reason I love this is because everytime I have someone telling me that the look on their face when my plan comes to fruition is priceless.