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heretics bane
29-10-2006, 12:39
hi, i play dwarfs and i need some help building a list to defeat them, my current list faired pretty well but i need to fill in the gaps.

-thanks in advance

Nagrael
29-10-2006, 13:08
It'd be helpful if you posted your list and what you know of his.

heretics bane
29-10-2006, 20:03
lord:
shield
master rune of challenge
rune of fire
grudge rune
rune of shielding
rune of might
rune of stone

thane:
shield
grudge rune
2xrune of fury

dragon slayer:
2x rune of fury
rune of resistance
rune of might

master enginner:
shield
brace of pistols
rune of stone

warriors:
shields
musician
standard
veteran

warriors:
shields
musician
standard
veteran

quarrellers:
shields
musican
standard
veteran

thunderers:
shields
musician
standard
veteran

cannon:
rune of burning

miners:
musician
standard
veteran
steam drill
blasting charges

organ gun

roughly around 2500pts list and his is..

alter noble

wild riders

dyrads

10 man glade unitx2

treeman

wardancers

spellsinger

tree kin

loads of way watchers

Necro Angelo
29-10-2006, 20:21
Ok well I'm no pro but just from looking at that list it already looks like you have a lot of very expensive characters. The one big advantage that Wood Elves have over Dwarves is that you're way slow and Wood Elves are very manouvarable, just flanking you with dryads and getting skirmishers right behind your lines shooting you to pieces all the way. Their one big apparent weakness however is their vulnerability to ranged shots, as they have low toughness and next to no armour. I'd say replace one of those characters with another unit of Quarrelers (who actually rock) or Thunderers. The Slayer is almost useless anyway unless they're using a Treeman...

max the dog
30-10-2006, 01:00
Waywatchers are 24 points a fig. That's pretty expensive for a toughness of 3, 1 wound and no armor. Hurt him where his points are.
The only units he has that can get a rank bonus is his archers and the treekin. He won't ever CC with his archers and the treekin are to expensive to form in big units. Use that against him.
He has no warmachines and nothing with good armor, you have both.

Alathir
30-10-2006, 05:32
Try taking another organ gun... those things worked wonders against me.

Highborn
30-10-2006, 11:24
Organ guns are evil. I'm sure I put way too much effort into killing those things, but I don't care because they need to die.

Take as many as you can.

Don't tool up your characters as much. Against elves, you don't really need it. A good armour save will work wonders. Slayers are trouble, because ItP negates one of the elves' biggest advantages - the fear caused by their mainline combat units. I generally try to kill slayers with missile fire - they're a relatively soft target for dwarves, and the Unbreakable thing is deadly in combat when I rely on breaking and running down the enemy. Take a small sacrificial unit, park them on your flank. They''ll either slow his combat, or buy you an extra turn of shooting. Either is a good investment when you have the elves so well outgunned.

ardude
30-10-2006, 18:34
against wood elves ( forest spirits I assume) organguns are great.
as everything is skirmish and they don't need to roll to hit.
some cannons and stone trowers with rune of fire ( magical so no ws) are also ahndfull vs treaman.
for the rest take big iron breakers and warriors with handweapon and shield.
20 iron breakers, and around 25 warriors.
dryds have a ahrd time breaking through blocks like this.
if 3 untis would charge you, 1 front 2 flanks
he would have 18 dryds= 36 attacks
18 hit
9 wound
4,5 get saved
4,5 dead

8,5 attacks back
4,25 hit
1,5 ( or something wound)
0,5 saved
1 dead

you have 3 ranks, outnumbering banenr 1 kill, totall of 6.
he has 1 flank and 4,5 kills 5,5
at tie you have musician.

you win vs 3 untis of dryds :skull:

Necro Angelo
30-10-2006, 19:17
...ridiculous, is'nt it =P

But yeah ranked units do work very well against wood elves because they have no chance in a frontal assault, even with a full unit of drayds with branch nymph- I'd know, after all the goblins mine have lost combat to.

heretics bane
30-10-2006, 20:26
could anybody write me out a list then please using all the above advice??, thanks in advance

Highborn
31-10-2006, 01:26
against wood elves ( forest spirits I assume) organguns are great.
as everything is skirmish and they don't need to roll to hit.
some cannons and stone trowers with rune of fire ( magical so no ws) are also ahndfull vs treaman.
for the rest take big iron breakers and warriors with handweapon and shield.
20 iron breakers, and around 25 warriors.
dryds have a ahrd time breaking through blocks like this.
if 3 untis would charge you, 1 front 2 flanks
he would have 18 dryds= 36 attacks
18 hit
9 wound
4,5 get saved
4,5 dead

8,5 attacks back
4,25 hit
1,5 ( or something wound)
0,5 saved
1 dead

you have 3 ranks, outnumbering banenr 1 kill, totall of 6.
he has 1 flank and 4,5 kills 5,5
at tie you have musician.

you win vs 3 untis of dryds :skull:

... most canny Wood Elf generals will use fast cavalry to flank and break ranks, rather than three units of dryads. Dwarves can't hope to hold their line against WE combat units and a decent player, once their ranks are negated (and they will be).

Goq Gar
31-10-2006, 03:39
You need lots of dwarves. Enough to make sure you can counter charge every unit you have.

Try to get as many units as you can, and very limited special equipment.

A nice unit of iron breakers straight in front of the cavalry will divert it as many cavalry players dont like to fight those nasty Hammers. This buys you at least an extra round of shooting at his cavalry (as long as you have a big enough unit of them, you can divert all his cavalry away from it, so sticking it on either flank will force his cavalry to the other side of the board, where you can stick most of your shooting to counter.)

Wood elf cavalry, I find, is pretty much laughable. Then again, I play Lizardmen. I find most Cavalry hilarious. (Kroxigors at S7, Salamanders doing up to ten hits at -1 to armour, and temple guard simply owning cavalry in all ways, shapes or form. 2 S5 hits each!? Yes please!)

However, Diverting cavalry into a trap is one of your best chances. Stick one or two heavy hitting units on one side of your line, and some heavy shooting to wait for them on the other side, like a few cannons and rangers. This way he sends his cavalry at your shooting because he thinks he has a better chance over there. I do this against flying circus armies and it works very well. Pegasi pretty much die in droves if you can get a few salamander shots off at them, and do what I usually do: Roll 10, 10, Misfire - 6.

Give this a try, and if it doesnt work, well, cavalry is now your worst nightmare - enjoy.

ashaman76
31-10-2006, 04:12
As a wood elf general, here are the things in a dwarf army that scare me the most:

Flame Cannons
Organ guns
Gyrocopters
Rangers
Big meaty blocks of vanilla warriors
That damn +1 CR banner to everything within 12" on a thane BSB
Bolt Thrower with rune of burning

Dwarves are my main opponent (my bro) and his flame cannon is THE reason I no longer field Treemen or Tree Kin.

An organ gun can hold your flank against any wood elf unit.

I would spend as little points as possible on characters. Probably drop the Lord choice and make the general a thane. Bring several big blocks of warriors each with some form of flanking squad (ideally, smaller units of GW warriors or Longbeards). Let a flame cannon and bolt thrower(with rune of burning) wail on any guys that look like trees. Crossbowdwarves are great at causing panics on wood elf glade riders. If they have no target they can be an excellent flanking squad if they're armed with GWs.

I love and hate the Dwarves!

Lieutenant Frederic Henry
31-10-2006, 22:15
Get an oathstone for a thane or lord and use that unit to anchor your flank (an opponent with no flanks or rear? good luck, hippies). On the other flank, use some slayers, or some Iron breakers with something to boost their leadership (magic banner, perhaps?), although Longbeards would work too, because they wouldn't have to take a panic test for being charged in the sides or rear (which, trust me, will happen when you play dwarves against wood elves. Leave the rest of your unit in a pretty solid line (think a shield wall) between these two anchoring units, thus denying the enemy the flanks of the infantry units in between.
Then, load up on Thunderers (the +1 to hit is absolutely necessary when targetting his skirmishers. especially at long range). Bolt throwers and stone throwers with runes of immolation are great, and cheaper than cannons (which aren't particularly useful against an army without any large, ranked-up, units). An organ gun is always fun. If you can, give your characters weapons to make their weapons flaming (thus, your dwarf lord may be able to burn up a Treeman, or some treekin). Invest in a runesmith; forget the engineer. While the engineer may make your artillery that much better, it's all quite worthless if he's moving his forests around to cover his advance. Deny him spells, and let the artillery and handgunners go about their merry way blasting him to pieces. When he finally gets there, he'll find that flanking the oathstone unit, or the slayers, is altogether quite worthless. Cheers, and burn a few trees down in the process.

heretics bane
02-11-2006, 11:29
ive revised my list, so here it is

lord:
shield
master rune of spite
rune of might
rune of stone

thane
shield
rune of stone
rune of brotherhood

thane(army standard)
shield
rune of stone
rune of might
master rune of fear

master engineer
brace of pistols
rune of stone

dragon slayer
rune of might
2x rune of fury

warriors -20man unit
shields
musician
standard
veteran

longbeards
musician
standard veteran
rune of courage
rune of determination

quarellers
shields
standard veteran

thunderers
shields
standard
veteran

ironbreakers
musician
standard
ironbeard
rune of courage
2x ancestor rune

miners
musician
standard
steam drill
blasting charges

cannon
rune of fortitude
rune of burning

organ gun

rangers(lonbeard)
standards
musician
veteran
rune of courage


after cutting down on runes i could fit in a 10 man unit of longbeard rangers that are immune to fear,terror and panic! thanks for all the help guys:)

Necro Angelo
02-11-2006, 13:06
Ok I've never been a fan of using lot's of characters, but I really don't think that you need to use the maximum amount; besides, you can only have 4 in 2500, and you have 5 (unless the slayer does'nt count...?) Regardless, you could be spending those points on something more useful, like ranged units.

ardude
02-11-2006, 13:07
looking good, but what are the unit sizes?:wtf:

ardude
02-11-2006, 13:08
... most canny Wood Elf generals will use fast cavalry to flank and break ranks, rather than three units of dryads. Dwarves can't hope to hold their line against WE combat units and a decent player, once their ranks are negated (and they will be).

there for you will but organ guns and stuff like that on your flanks, their fast caf dies quickly.
and if he keeps them behind his dryds he can't use them anyway ;)

heretics bane
02-11-2006, 21:02
the warrior units are 20-25man, ironbreakers 10man, all missile troops 10man and the miners 10

Nanozzo
04-11-2006, 15:37
how can you field rune of resistance opon dagon slayer?
I would not use dragon slayer!
Field envil of doom!
Use more organ gun you can! 'cause not suffering skirmish formation in shooting phase

heretics bane
13-11-2006, 17:45
tryed out my list today, and it worked a treat!! complete massacre of woodies, everything gone in 45minutes!!