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View Full Version : A question about enchanted items and impassable terrain.



Shimmergloom
30-10-2006, 22:53
First question.

Do enchanted items count as magical attacks vs things like ethereal's, forest spirits, etc?

If so, would that mean that the impact hits from an ironback boar(along with it's normal attack) would count as magical attacks?

Second Question.

In 7th edition it states that if you flee into impassable terrain for any reason you are removed as a casualty.

What about Lizzies with the aquatic rule which lets them enter aquatic terrain. When they flee through it, they die too right?

A friend of mine felt that since his lizzies were aquatic they didn't die when they fled through a lake. But there's no exception to the rule in the rulebook or the lizzie book, so I feel they die just like everyone else.

Thanks in advance for any help.

feeder
31-10-2006, 02:03
Do enchanted items count as magical attacks vs things like ethereal's, forest spirits, etc?
It would depend if the Ethereal etc's resistance specifies "Magic Weapons", in which case I would say no; or the more general "Magical Attacks", or similar wording, in which case i would say yes.

In 7th edition it states that if you flee into impassable terrain for any reason you are removed as a casualty.
What about Lizzies with the aquatic rule which lets them enter aquatic terrain. When they flee through it, they die too right?

No. Water is not impassable to Lizzies, so they don't die.

WLBjork
31-10-2006, 08:18
With regards to the boar, a further question is are it's attacks listed as magical?

Autobot HQ
31-10-2006, 08:34
I'd say so, as it's a magical item, forged by demon-fused magic by Chas Dwarves.

Flame
31-10-2006, 08:51
It may be a magical item, but its not a magic weapon.

By that same token, would you let me hit dryads with a book of secrets and claim I've got magical attacks?

Gorbad Ironclaw
31-10-2006, 08:53
Or the ever popular "Bad doggie, bad doggie" as you slap the fleshhounds with your dispel scroll :p

T10
31-10-2006, 09:54
For your local gaming group you should discuss the matter and establish your house rules.

Using non-combat items such as Dispel Scrolls as weapons should be disallowed. Combat-affecting items should be evaluated on an item-by-item basis.

In the case of the Iron Back Boar it seems clear that it is a magical item that deals damage on his own. I would agree that it qualifies as "magical attacks", impact hits and all.

In the case of the Iron Gnashas, it seems reasonable to assume that the character uses them when inflicting a successful Killing Blow attack, but otherwise it's a bit ambiguous.

In a tournament setting, however, the safest approach is not to assume that Enchanted Items qualify as magical attacks.

-T10

Jedi152
31-10-2006, 09:59
Second Question.

In 7th edition it states that if you flee into impassable terrain for any reason you are removed as a casualty.

What about Lizzies with the aquatic rule which lets them enter aquatic terrain. When they flee through it, they die too right?

No. Water is not impassable to Lizzies, so they don't die.
The next question is, does the unit that breaks it pursue into the water and drown if it can't restrain?

NakedFisherman
31-10-2006, 10:30
The next question is, does the unit that breaks it pursue into the water and drown if it can't restrain?

No, they stop at the edge of the terrain.

Autobot HQ
31-10-2006, 12:32
Flame: does the book of secrets inflict impact hits when you charge? :p

I agree that if the item in question causes damage, and that item is magical, then they count as magical attacks. It's like claiming the Brass Orb can't hurt etheral creatures cause it's not a magical weapon. It creates a freaking votex.

Common sense, just because it isn't in the rulebook, doesn't mean it isn't in Warhammer.

WLBjork
31-10-2006, 12:56
Just because the boar is magical doesn't automatically mean that it's attacks are.

If it notes in the description for the item that it's attacks are either magical or count as magical then there is obviously no room for debate. If this is not specified then I would assume that they are not magical.

Festus
31-10-2006, 13:07
Hi

You know what they say about *ass-u-me* :)

Anything that is either bought from the Magic Items/runes or is described as magical will deal magical attacks, whether weapon, or enchanted item, or arcane item, or...

Festus

Flame
31-10-2006, 13:24
Flame: does the book of secrets inflict impact hits when you charge? :p

I agree that if the item in question causes damage, and that item is magical, then they count as magical attacks. It's like claiming the Brass Orb can't hurt etheral creatures cause it's not a magical weapon. It creates a freaking votex.

Common sense, just because it isn't in the rulebook, doesn't mean it isn't in Warhammer.

No, why would it?

Common sense would dictate that a skaven ratling gun should blow up more often or the RAF being invented in the warhammer world, but heh.

Flame
31-10-2006, 13:24
Hi

You know what they say about *ass-u-me* :)

Anything that is either bought from the Magic Items/runes or is described as magical will deal magical attacks, whether weapon, or enchanted item, or arcane item, or...

Festus

And you get that ruling where?

Tutore
31-10-2006, 13:38
Hi

You know what they say about *ass-u-me* :)

Anything that is either bought from the Magic Items/runes or is described as magical will deal magical attacks, whether weapon, or enchanted item, or arcane item, or...

Festus

I think you are right, many magic items also say it in some form.

Shagrat
31-10-2006, 14:33
And what about the Talon of Death?

The wounds it deal always counted as magical to me...

Festus
31-10-2006, 15:54
Hi

They are, just like the Warrior Familiar's attack, and many other things like Dwarven Runic War Machines, etc...

Festus

druchii
31-10-2006, 16:57
Hi

You know what they say about *ass-u-me* :)

Anything that is either bought from the Magic Items/runes or is described as magical will deal magical attacks, whether weapon, or enchanted item, or arcane item, or...

Festus


And you get that ruling where?


Hi

They are, just like the Warrior Familiar's attack, and many other things like Dwarven Runic War Machines, etc...

Festus


Festus:
We all assume,that's how we function properly in life, but that doesn't honestly make an ass out of you nor me.
That statement is ignorant and childish.

Also; just SAYING something is, doesn't make it so.
Flame has a good point, where do you find your ruling on what IS and ISN'T a magical attack?

I think it is rather obvious, but you seem you have some imaginary immunity to the "show me the rule" rule.

d

NakedFisherman
31-10-2006, 17:05
That statement is ignorant and childish.

It may be puerile, but I wouldn't consider it ignorant.

There is no rule that says anything makes attacks magical besides those that explicitly state it (Yhetee Ice Weapons, Skaven weapons, etc.)

Festus
31-10-2006, 17:42
...where do you find your ruling on what IS and ISN'T a magical attack?
You really need a rule which says what is magical and what not in a chapter of the rulebook concerned with *Magic Items*? :rolleyes:

I think it is rather obvious, but you seem you have some imaginary immunity to the "show me the rule" rule.
Quite the oposite, young friend, quite the oposite... :(

But, you know, there's something in life that is just so obvious ... even if you don't find it in a WHFB rulebook...

BTW Can you show me where it says that attacks from Magic Weapons are magical attacks? :angel:

Festus

TheWarSmith
31-10-2006, 17:43
If the attack comes from a magical source, then the attack is magical. How hard is that to believe?

Gekiganger
31-10-2006, 18:14
If the attack comes from a magical source, then the attack is magical. How hard is that to believe?

Obviously too hard for some people.

I agree completely with festus, if it's from the magic item section it's pretty likely that it's *shockhorror* magic. If you have such a hard time believing it make a house rule.

DeathlessDraich
31-10-2006, 19:06
If the attack comes from a magical source, then the attack is magical. How hard is that to believe?

Not hard at all. There should be no question that a Magical weapon generates magical attacks.

The more pertinent question or correctly phrased question is this:

Will the effects of a magical item be magical too?

Seems obvious?
Consider for example
Amulet of protectyness (I think that's the correct Orcish spelling)
Will the saves be magical? will a WE save be transferred differently or identically? - that may be too easy so consider this:

Spiteful Shield - Will the S5 hit be magical?
What about other shields which rebound attacks?
Will the rebounded hits become magical since they were caused by a magic item?

Latro
31-10-2006, 19:19
Spiteful Shield - Will the S5 hit be magical?
What about other shields which rebound attacks?
Will the rebounded hits become magical since they were caused by a magic item?

An item that "rebounds" wouldn't change the nature of the attack, because the item in question is not dealing it, just redirecting it to a new target. An item that deals hits/wounds for every hit it saves (or any other reason) is making magical attacks ... because it is the source of the attack and it is a magical item.

... unless it has been FAQ'ed, because FAQ trumps all! :D

Festus
31-10-2006, 21:59
Hi

There should be no question that a Magical weapon generates magical attacks.

Yes, there should be no question, but some believe there is - because it is not stated in the BRB :rolleyes: .

Well, you can't please everybody, can you?

Greetings
Festus

WLBjork
31-10-2006, 22:32
Runes are the point that made me wonder in the first place, as the Dwarfish Engineering runes are specifically noted as making the shots magical.

This indicates that merely being magical in itself doesn't confer the properties to every aspect of the item.

Shagrat
31-10-2006, 22:54
Also; just SAYING something is, doesn't make it so.
Flame has a good point, where do you find your ruling on what IS and ISN'T a magical attack?

I think it is rather obvious, but you seem you have some imaginary immunity to the "show me the rule" rule.
d

Hey, druchii, if FESTUS say something, it is better than the rulebook to me, ok? He EARNED this level of trust.
And it's plain obvious that a magic boar have magic tusks, who happen to cause... MAGIC DAMAGE!!!! Just imagine that the boar has the equivalent of two big magic swords right out of his mouth:D

TheWarSmith
01-11-2006, 00:43
if a magic daemon causes magic attacks, I'd argue a *******' magic boar counts too.

Shimmergloom
01-11-2006, 00:44
I'm still not sure why lizzies who are aquatic get to ignore the rule that you die when you hit impassable terrain like lakes.

I know they can move into lakes, but the rulebook doesn't say, 'destroyed if you flee into impassable terrain unless you are aquatic'.

metro_gnome
01-11-2006, 00:53
yes but the lake is not "impassable terrain" to those with the aquatic rule...

Festus
01-11-2006, 07:49
Hi

yes but the lake is not "impassable terrain" to those with the aquatic rule...
Entirely correct: It is the same with Woods for Woodies for example: Woods are either difficult or very difficult, but not for a Woody: They will ignore its penalties.

A Water Feature may be difficult, very difficult or impassable, but models with *Aquatic* ignore this kind of terrain.

Greetings
Festus

Autobot HQ
01-11-2006, 13:34
Also, that wording would be rather stupid don't you think?

Player 1 - "I'm aquatic, so impassible terrain doesn't destroy me!"
Player 2 - "Erm ... you're fleeing into a mountain ..."

That lake isn't impassible to the skinks. They can walk through it, run through it, march or charge through it, hell they can skip naked with a pizza through it if they want to. I don't think they'd suddenly become hydrophobic if they had to flee through it, or stand there and be eaten by a great freaking dragon or some such thing.

A-HQ

Revlid
01-11-2006, 17:02
And it's plain obvious that a magic boar have magic tusks, who happen to cause... MAGIC DAMAGE!!!! Just imagine that the boar has the equivalent of two big magic swords right out of his mouth:D

I think its more the fact that its a Chaos Dwarf construct with a daemon inside it, and every other Chaos Dwarf construct (Iron Rhinox, Hellcannon, Juggernaut) has magical attacks. This, combined with the fact that its a magical item, kinda seals the deal for me.

TheWarSmith
01-11-2006, 17:03
So, if an aquatic unit flees and is the victor persues, how would that work? When exactly is the unit destroyed? At the end of their move?

What if the victor persuing was a flyer and the fleeing unit had sufficient movement to take them past the water. Would the flying unit fly over?

Latro
01-11-2006, 17:39
So, if an aquatic unit flees and is the victor persues, how would that work? When exactly is the unit destroyed? At the end of their move?

What if the victor persuing was a flyer and the fleeing unit had sufficient movement to take them past the water. Would the flying unit fly over?

It's the dice-roll that decides the matter ... not the actual distance moved.

Festus
01-11-2006, 20:47
Hi

Yes, with a pursuing unit it is just the roll to decide if the broken unit is run down. In a normal flee situation, the chargers will have to stop before the water, whereas the skinks can move on into safety. That is being able to swim for you :D

FEstus