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RaZeR
02-04-2005, 09:05
Hi, i've written up a possible archaon's horde list. i havent actually got any models yet, so any changes are probably possible!!

Characters

Chaos Lord - Mark of Slaanesh, Sword of Might, Armour of Damnation, Crown of Everlasting Conquest, Shield, Barded Chaos Steed - 362

Chaos Sorceror - Mark of Slaanesh, Level 2, Spell Familiar, Dispell Scroll, Barded Chaos Steed - 196

Chaos Sorceror - Undivided, Fire Magic, Level 2, 2 Dispell Scrolls - 170

Core

5 Marauder Horsemen - Flails, Throwing Axes, Musician - 101

5 Marauder Horsemen - Flails, Throwing Spears, Musician - 101

4 Chaos Knights - Mark of Slaanesh, Full Command, Banner of Wrath - 252
{Lord joins}

5 Warhounds - 30

5 Warhounds - 30

Special

5 Chosen Knights - Mark of Slaanesh, Full Command, War Banner - 320

5 Chosen Knights - Mark of Slaanesh, Full Command - 295

5 Flayerkin - 70

5 Flayerkin - 70


The general idea is to use the knights to advance up the middle and flanks, screened as much as possible by the warhounds. the marauder horsemen go right out on the flanks to add combat res, or can be used for screening, baiting etc. The Flayerkin are there to take out enemy war machines, or to assassinate lone mages, etc. the mounted sorceror sticks near the knights so he cant be targeted, and uses the relatively short ranged slaanesh magic to cause damage. the fire spells have longer range, so that sorceror doesnt have to be mounted, he can skulk around at the back. Hopefully he wont get picked off too quickly...

Please give me advice or hints or anything you can think of for this list...

Thanks

RaZeR

Akuma
02-04-2005, 11:23
Threat units are 3x5 knights ??? Well thats not enought in 2000 points all armys with shooting will get rid of them quickly or bring their number to a point when thay wont matter and besides that just abut everything doesnt stand a chance aginst normal ranked up infantry. Scrap it as a whole...

RaZeR
02-04-2005, 12:24
even large scale shooting will take a while to whittle down 1+ AS troops screened by hounds. and they wont have a while, i'll probably be charging on turn 2 if i can.

and then if the army has mainly shooting, when i DO get into combat, i'll be crushing them.

against ranked up units, if used properly, they can win quite easily. they will be causing huge amounts of casualties, and if i can get a flank with marauder horsemen, hounds or even flayerkin (assuming none have died, OFC), then i can win combat by 4 or 5 and hopefully run them down.

Akuma
02-04-2005, 16:34
even large scale shooting will take a while to whittle down 1+ AS troops screened by hounds. and they wont have a while,

Does "my thunderers take that hill" says something to you ??? You can only screen if the terrain is in you favour and on most tournament tables it will be balanced ( a hill in each dep zone is standard )


i'll probably be charging on turn 2 if i can.

no you wont - 24" is the standard disstance betwean dep zones and thay are AT least 12" wide ( so 48 " table ) lets say you have 1 turn you move in 2 turns you will move 40" - 12" dep zone + 1turn 14" and second turn 14" that still leves him 8" if he meneges to squise in there ( no to hard wit handgun line ) you will be in deep trouble and dont forget that he will most cartainly stand and shoot rather than flee.


i'll be crushing them

Yeah definitly - if he has only shooting and is stupid enought to let you charge something valuabl I totaly agree - but if he has shooting and magic - you will be hurt badly - ok i know 3 diss scrolls are plenty BUT there are armys that specialise in magic and you will suffer from tham as you will strugle to kill something valuable ( mages move fast on those damn horses )


against ranked up units, if used properly, they can win quite easily. they will be causing huge amounts of casualties, and if i can get a flank with marauder horsemen, hounds or even flayerkin (assuming none have died, OFC), then i can win combat by 4 or 5 and hopefully run them down.

Lets get this straight - Flayerkin NEVER dany rank bonus - skirmishers :)
another thing - and if he charges you ??? Like Bret lance in the unit of knights ??? You can do flee because you are ITP and brets don't need to rush to you because thay have magic support and archers. And finaly this plan suggest that everything will make it to the target - dogs die as screen and marouders are catched by flank protectors - not to optimistic i would say

+

You army will have problems with any flyer units out there one great eagel and your cavalry moves 7" a turn :o

RaZeR
03-04-2005, 10:38
Does "my thunderers take that hill" says something to you ??? You can only screen if the terrain is in you favour and on most tournament tables it will be balanced ( a hill in each dep zone is standard )
{...}
no you wont - 24" is the standard disstance betwean dep zones and thay are AT least 12" wide ( so 48 " table ) lets say you have 1 turn you move in 2 turns you will move 40" - 12" dep zone + 1turn 14" and second turn 14" that still leves him 8" if he meneges to squise in there ( no to hard wit handgun line ) you will be in deep trouble and dont forget that he will most cartainly stand and shoot rather than flee.

All true. however, i think you are only considering the worst case scenario. lets consider the possibility of my opponent bringing a balanced list. some shooting, some combat... most people will either advance, or have deployed far enough forward for me to get into combat on turn 2 or 3. In 3 turns, a massively shooty arm can do quite a lot of damage, but still only limited amounts to 1+AS knights. On the other hand, if i took infantry, chaos warriors for example, i can afford a unit of 12 for each unit of knights. now thats 12 models as opposed to 5, but they have a 3+ save not 1+, and take twice as long to get there. therefore they will suffer a lot more damage before arriving. or i could take marauders... then i can get 30 for the price of a knight unit. but with a 6+ save and -1T, as well as taking twice as long to get there, again they are going to be less effective when they actually do get there...


Yeah definitly - if he has only shooting and is stupid enought to let you charge something valuabl I totaly agree - but if he has shooting and magic - you will be hurt badly - ok i know 3 diss scrolls are plenty BUT there are armys that specialise in magic and you will suffer from tham as you will strugle to kill something valuable ( mages move fast on those damn horses )

Quite possibly, but with a highly shooty and magical army, again the amount of damage he can do before i actually get there is limited by my speed. and when i do get there, even depleted knight units ought to be able to do some damage to missile troops, which are normally comparatively weak... (OFC with dwarves i may have a problem here, but they are relatively expensive missile troops as well... and with luck i will be able to trap the mages with flayerkin or marauders...


Lets get this straight - Flayerkin NEVER dany rank bonus - skirmishers :)
another thing - and if he charges you ??? Like Bret lance in the unit of knights ??? You can do flee because you are ITP and brets don't need to rush to you because thay have magic support and archers. And finaly this plan suggest that everything will make it to the target - dogs die as screen and marouders are catched by flank protectors - not to optimistic i would say

Fair point, i forgot FK were skirmishers, i was just considering the US5 bit :D but i still get the flank bonus and with WS4, S4, 2A each i will probably get some kills too.
Yes i can probably be charged by bret knights, and i might even lose a unit that way. BUT if i can hold his knights for a turn and get some flanks, the upper hand may then be on the other foot... (quote from hotshots part deux, roughly)
Chaos armies are always going to have trouble against heavy shooting armies. However, IMO a faster army is going to suffer less than an infantry army, although the infantry army can afford more losses.


You army will have problems with any flyer units out there one great eagel and your cavalry moves 7" a turn :o

better than infantry moving 4" a turn while being shot... and with luck i can get rid of flyers with my magic, albeit its quite limited. or the marauder horsemen can hunt them down.

Darmort
03-04-2005, 16:10
I personally don't like this list. Lots of punch, yeah, sure, but what? 47 Models, that's not that many, you'll be outnumbered unless your opponent has the same style list as you.
On the other hand, why just go for the Elite troops that are worth so many points? If your opponent deploys his missile troops to shoot just one of the those Chosen Units (say, the one with the Lord or Warbanner in), then you're going to lose an aweful lot of Points, as you'll have 2+ Armour Saves, not 1+ (sure you can have 1+, but it's a minimal Save of 2+, you can't automatically do anything in Warhammer).

I can see this list having serious troubles fighting against fast Armies, such as an Army with a lot of mobile ranged troops (Dark Riders, Reavers, Warhawk Rider, Pistoliers and so on).
Also, if your Knights turn, the enemy will just dodge right round your rear again, this list is useless, in my opinion of course.


(EDIT; That's not Cheesy! That's what all Asur players do so it can't be cheesy! :rolleyes:)

Akuma
03-04-2005, 17:25
Plese don't post things like that - "how would you do aginst it" this doesnt get us enywhere because he can post the same thing and so on and so on it's rather pointless and youlist is much more cheesy than his

the_night_reaper
04-04-2005, 21:56
Well you're list looks good on paper. BUT when it comes down to the actual game you're going to be in trouble. Some changes I would make to you're army is to replace the non-chosen knights with a couple big blocks of marauders or maybe even a unit of deamonettes. I can nvr bring myself to feild an army with at least 2 big blocks of troops because then I die really easily. I can maybe do 1 big unit but not 2. Also you're lord needs to be given better equipement. First of all give him a better mount.[steed of slaanesh(sos)]. The give him the all deadly crown of everlasting conquest and pendent of slaanesh combo. Also you need some good armour. Armour of damnation is you're best bet here and also give him a sheild(normal 3pt sheild). Then to make him really "killy" give him a great weapon. that actually totals to 3 points less than what you had and much more effective, have him go alone, run him up the flank and he'll be able to charge on turn 2 on a normal sized table and will be able to break just about any unit he fights.

OR you can do what I do and take an exalted sorceror with the deamon sword.

Also I reccommend switching a unit of FK for a unit of furries or switch both for some Mdeamonettes.

you should add one more dog to each unit and give both horseman units throwing axes they're much better in my oppinion. And don't forget abou beastmen when you're making a chaos army list. they're mages can cast just as well as a normal chaos sorceror.

Also you might want to try a spawn as they're always fun or maybe a chariot. This is one of the reasons I like to play chaos. they are so many choices.

good luck

-the night reaper

User Name
05-04-2005, 03:31
Units of 6 knights are much better than 5, that can take more dammage and if they reach the unit undamaged then the 13 attacks can on top of 6 more for horses can easily cause the 4 or 5 wounds needed to win combat, its wuite likey to do many many more