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Pendragon
02-07-2005, 15:49
Looking through the IG Armoured company list was rather inspiring, and since I have a few different tanks lying around (most of them half-finished or less though) for my Black Templars, I thought, wouldn't it be cool will all tank battles, with infantry just there for support?
The thing lacking for such battles is pretty much just armoured coompany rules for the other armies. Being most familiar with space marines, these were the first i turned my over overactive imagination towards.

In short:

Predators would replace Leman Russes as the "standard tank" of the army.

The Tank Commander would get a BS of 5 and have access to pretty much any kind of non-artillery Space Marine tank, including Land Raiders (but probably not Rhinos and Razorbacks).

Characters on bikes could perhaps also be a possibility. Perhaps even Land Raider-mounted Command squads.

Tank Aces are right out. Space marines are quite unlikely to have personell specialised in such things. Besides, giving them a BS 5 tank commander is generous enough.

Since mechanised infantry is pretty much what Space marines are all about, veterans and terminators in transport would be available as elites. Techmarines would naturally also be available, but forced to use transports, or bikes.

Dreadnoughts? Right out. Too slow.

Troops choices, let's see... Predators and nothing but predators? Perhaps at least one for every mechanised infantry unit?

Fast attack. Plent of choices there. Land speeders, bikes, scout bikes and attack bikes all seem appropriate, as do tactical marines in rhinos (or should they perhaps be elites?).

Assualt squads don't seem apropriate. I don't see them keeping up over longer distances.

Perhaps Razorbacks as recon sections? Nah, could/should be covered by small tac squads. Perhaps Rhino/Landraiders squads as elites only and razorback squads as fast attack?

Heavy support:
Land raiders, Vindicators, Whirlwinds.

Devastators are just redundant, even with transports.

At first I started thinking about a doctrine system similar to IG, but dropped the idea. SM will have to make do with their own traits, like being limited to one crusader unless BT and such.

I'm not very familliar with the other armies, but I think most of them could be turned into rather interesting armoured (or at least completely mechanised) units, even though some (like Tau) would need some Forge World or VDR support.

Your thoughts?

/Joel - would love to see a Craftworld eldar armoured company

malika
02-07-2005, 18:24
The Dark Angels used to have this company called the Ironwing, it was basicly their armoured company.

Puffin Magician
02-07-2005, 20:08
First off, this is an Armoured Company, get all those damn bikes out of here [I'm a treadhead and I detest bikes, sorry]. Keep the speeders out too, this isn't Ravenwing.

Predators as Troops is a good idea, as well as the HQ being able to take any "tank" [as you said, not Transports] as his vehicle.

0-1 Terminator Squad as Elites; if they don't take a Land Raider Transport they must Deep Strike. You don't want to allow too many Termies into an army that's all about tanks.

Razorback and Rhino squads could be used as Fast Attack, and even possibly empty Razorbacks. Remember that you don't need a squad of infantry to reconnoitre, a tank stuffed with recon gear is good enough.

Remember other units like Vindicators, Land Raider Helios', and Hyperios AA.

I agree that Tau and Eldar would have some problems; perhaps limit your Troops to 0-4 "basic" tanks: Hammerhead & Falcon. Heavy Support/Elites or Fast Attack tanks can be variants of these [Nightspinner, Firestorm & Fire Prism for Eldar, Hammerhead turret variants, Skyray for Tau, etc], or make it a points limit like the new Tyranid Carnifex; under a certain points and they're Troops, otherwise FA/E/HS.

Pendragon
02-07-2005, 21:03
First off, this is an Armoured Company, get all those damn bikes out of here [I'm a treadhead and I detest bikes, sorry]. Keep the speeders out too, this isn't Ravenwing.

Well, if IG gets Sentinels I think marines should at least get limited access to bikes/speeders. I mean, at least the bikes look at least as armoured as any sentinel. ;)
They should however be limited.


Predators as Troops is a good idea, as well as the HQ being able to take any "tank" [as you said, not Transports] as his vehicle.

0-1 Terminator Squad as Elites; if they don't take a Land Raider Transport they must Deep Strike. You don't want to allow too many Termies into an army that's all about tanks.

No deep striking. Not cool or armoured enough. Evryone needs a ride. No compromises. ;)


Razorback and Rhino squads could be used as Fast Attack, and even possibly empty Razorbacks. Remember that you don't need a squad of infantry to reconnoitre, a tank stuffed with recon gear is good enough.

True, very true. Empty Razorbacks works very well.


Remember other units like Vindicators, Land Raider Helios', and Hyperios AA.

Yeah well, I mentioned vindicators and the others are just variants of Land Raiders and Whirlwinds? No?

The problem I have so far that there isn't any pure tank options for Elites. Only Land Raiders as transport options for Terminators. Also, theres Quite a few Infantry-ish troops such a bikes and, well, infantry. Basically, a limit is needed. Perhaps only one infantry (with transport) or bike unit (land speeder as well?) per two tank units (predator, empty land raider, command tank, recon razorback, heavy support tanks)?

That should make sure the force is still mainly geared toward tanks, while still keeping a bit of the super-infantry flavor of marines.


I agree that Tau and Eldar would have some problems; perhaps limit your Troops to 0-4 "basic" tanks: Hammerhead & Falcon. Heavy Support/Elites or Fast Attack tanks can be variants of these [Nightspinner, Firestorm & Fire Prism for Eldar, Hammerhead turret variants, Skyray for Tau, etc], or make it a points limit like the new Tyranid Carnifex; under a certain points and they're Troops, otherwise FA/E/HS.

Hmm... interesting ideas. I assume you're completely ignoring lighter vehicles like jetbikes and Vypers (judging from your reaction to bikes and land speeders)?

Any ideas on how to hammer something vaguely resembling an armoured company out of the Dark Eldar?

/Joel - perhaps I should've called the thread "mobile/motorized company"?

Pendragon
02-07-2005, 21:04
The Dark Angels used to have this company called the Ironwing, it was basicly their armoured company.

Here I was, thinking I was fairly old skool, and yet, I had never heard of that.

My confidence is shattered. ;)

/Joel

nurgle_boy
02-07-2005, 22:11
sound cool, but what about other races?

but whatever you do, dont even THINK, about rules for a necron armoured company!

*draws killy knife*

Pendragon
02-07-2005, 22:15
sound cool, but what about other races?

I am eagerly awaiting your suggestions.

What? Did you think I was going to do all the work myself? What did you think this thread is for.


but whatever you do, dont even THINK, about rules for a necron armoured company!

Well, they're armoured all the way through, so why not? ;)


*draws killy knife*

Remember to cut away from yourself.

/Joel - safety first

malika
02-07-2005, 23:46
Here I was, thinking I was fairly old skool, and yet, I had never heard of that.

My confidence is shattered. ;)

/Joel

Old Skool epic background IIRC

therisnosaurus
03-07-2005, 01:35
space marine armoured co:

HQ:
tank commander (damocles command rhino, predator, landraider crusader or land raider prometheus) BS5.
0-1 space marine character on bike. may not take a command squad

Elites:
terminator squad (must be mounted in a land raider OR deep strike)

Troops:
1+ space marine tank squadron (predator destructor, predator anhailator) 1-3 tanks per squadron
0-1 space marine support squad per tank squadron: tactical squad, must be mounted in rhino or razorback.

Fast attack
land speeder squadron
bike squadron
attack bike squadron
scout bike squadron

Heavy support:
Land raider/crusader/helios/prometheus
Support squadron (vindicator, whirlwind, whirlwind hyperios). you may only have one type of support tank per squadron)

warlordgrubnatz
04-07-2005, 18:47
ork: armad cumpny
hq-
warboss mounted in looted russ, gunwagon, flakwagon, looted predator
bs3

elites-
experienced crew tank- battlewagon (must take a big gun), looted predator, looted leman russ demolisher, flackwagon, gunwagon, looted land raider
bs3

troops:
looted leman russ batle tanks, batlle wagons (with big gun), looted razorbacks, flackwagonz (0-2)

fast attack:
looted salamander scout vehicle, looted chimera, looted hellhound

0-2 trukk boyz mobs
death koptaz

heavy support
0-1 squiggoth (large variety)
0-1 gun fortress


hows this.

Pendragon
05-07-2005, 13:52
Orks with BS4? Sacrilege!

BS3 would do just fine.

Gun batteries are too slow to keep up. A choice of bikerboyz and/or deathkoptas might be appropriate though.

/Joel

warlordgrubnatz
05-07-2005, 17:31
modefied profile. dont know what i was thinking with bs4

Berynius
05-07-2005, 21:36
Hmm sounds interesting, for the eldar

Hq. Falcon with BS4 or 5 aspect warriors in tanks

Troop: The Falcon would be the main stray of a eldar armoured company. Possible with the option to take 1-2 squads of Warwalker or a unit of firedragons in a waveserpent.

Fast Attack. Vypers

Heavy Surport Fireprisme, Nightspinner

Okay here is the slightly heretical part, since the eldar in my opinion have a very close cooperation between air and land element (is there even a division there?) why not have:

Elite: Firestorm, Nightwing, Phoenix,

Just some random thoughts form a eldar player who loves his armour.

Pendragon
06-07-2005, 01:00
Hmm sounds interesting, for the eldar

Hq. Falcon with BS4 or 5 aspect warriors in tanks

Troop: The Falcon would be the main stray of a eldar armoured company. Possible with the option to take 1-2 squads of Warwalker or a unit of firedragons in a waveserpent.

Fast Attack. Vypers

Heavy Surport Fireprisme, Nightspinner

Excellent. Falcons and warwalkers work great as troop choices. warwalkers have that sleek look that makes them look fast enough to kepp up (like sentinels), while wraithlords and dreadnoughts lack it completely. Possibly it could be possible to have aspect warrior squads as elites or fast attack as long as they have Falcons as transports (or perhaps wave serpents) or jetbike mounted (shiny pointy sticks or whatever theyre called). Possibly even guardians on jetbikes.


Okay here is the slightly heretical part, since the eldar in my opinion have a very close cooperation between air and land element (is there even a division there?) why not have:

Elite: Firestorm, Nightwing, Phoenix,

Just some random thoughts form a eldar player who loves his armour.

Well... can't they just use flyers just like any other army does?

/Joel

Berynius
06-07-2005, 07:25
You have some good points Pendragon. The reason I included flyers in the armoured formation was that the eldar do not have a great variety tanks, and I think it would be fluffy as it is my opinion that there is a very close cooperation between the land and air elements in a eldar warhost.

But any way here is a revised list, with out air elements (except the Firestorm AA platform)

HQ: Falcon’s Talon a tank aspect, driving a falcon (BS5)

Elite: Falcons Talon tank (BS4) and Fire Dragons in Wave Serpents

Troops: Falcon and 0-2 squadrons of Warwalkers

Fast Attack: Vypers, Shining Spears.

Heavy Support: Nightspinner, Firestrom, Firprisme, and perhaps Support platforms.

As you will see I have only include those aspects that somehow have an association with tanks.

The Falcons Talon, is a rare aspect the represent the aspect of Khaine that is the unstoppable blow, they are trained in armoured combat.

Pendragon
07-07-2005, 10:29
You have some good points Pendragon. The reason I included flyers in the armoured formation was that the eldar do not have a great variety tanks, and I think it would be fluffy as it is my opinion that there is a very close cooperation between the land and air elements in a eldar warhost.

But any way here is a revised list, with out air elements (except the Firestorm AA platform)

HQ: Falcon’s Talon a tank aspect, driving a falcon (BS5)

Elite: Falcons Talon tank (BS4) and Fire Dragons in Wave Serpents

Troops: Falcon and 0-2 squadrons of Warwalkers

Fast Attack: Vypers, Shining Spears.

Heavy Support: Nightspinner, Firestrom, Firprisme, and perhaps Support platforms.

As you will see I have only include those aspects that somehow have an association with tanks.

The Falcons Talon, is a rare aspect the represent the aspect of Khaine that is the unstoppable blow, they are trained in armoured combat.

I like it very much methinks, but I think I have to go contradict myself. Firedragons in falcons probably was a better idea.

Yes, you may shoot me now.

How about guardian jetbikes?

/Joel

Berynius
08-07-2005, 09:37
@Pendragon "BLAM"

Seriously I am inclined to agree with you.

Elite: Falcon Tanks (BS4), Fire Dragons in Falcons and maybe Darkreapers and Striking Scorpions in Waveserpents for use against infantry and light vehicles.

I would only included the Shining Spears becourse they have some basic anti-tank capability. I think that Guardian jetbikes do not fit the overall theme of the Armoured company.

But generaly I think that the eldar need more tanks/vehicles
:)

Pendragon
08-07-2005, 12:09
@Pendragon "BLAM"

Seriously I am inclined to agree with you.

Good, good. Agreeing with me is always is good. The bodily harm I can live with, as long as my ego is stroked.


Elite: Falcon Tanks (BS4), Fire Dragons in Falcons and maybe Darkreapers and Striking Scorpions in Waveserpents for use against infantry and light vehicles.

Perhaps not dark reapers. Once out of their vehicle, they should be fairly mobile (but banshees are too achy-breaky to fit). Fire Dragons, Striking Scorpions and perhaps Dire Avengers should just about right.


I would only included the Shining Spears becourse they have some basic anti-tank capability. I think that Guardian jetbikes do not fit the overall theme of the Armoured company.

Well I was thinking, since guardians do most of the tank driving anyway, regular jetbikes would work. But your point is taken and conceeded.


But generaly I think that the eldar need more tanks/vehicles
:)

Amen. At least some more Falcon variants.

/Joel - wishes IG still had the option of using Rhinos.

Berynius
08-07-2005, 21:35
Hmm your right about the Dark reapers, they don't fit, they would defeat the whole mobility thing.

Dire Avengers how ever, I think they may have a place, they would be there to back up the armour and help protect it against infantry attacks. I would add them under Fast Attack, as theire job would be fast counter attacks and lightning strikes against the enemy. would mount them in a Wave Serpent as they realy need to be 10 man strong to be of much use.

So fast attack would be

Fast Attack: Vypers, Shining Spears and Dire Avengers in Wave Serpents.

cpl_hicks
12-07-2005, 23:01
well the IG armoured company bumps, troops into the fast attack choice (the armoured fist squads), so maybe some guaridans in a falcon, marines in a rhino ect could be bumped in to a fast attack choice

me thinks that the space marine armoured company would have a predators as troop choices, assault squads (without jump packs) in rhinos as fast attack, dont know what would be heavy support, maybe land raider crusaders

highmarshaldave
11-08-2005, 20:28
But generaly I think that the eldar need more tanks/vehicles
:)

To the VDR! Since the vehicles are going to be for a full army, we can maybe break one or two minor rules (ie, giving blast to high strength weapons on normal vehicles), and maybe dock like 10% off the final cost (since that's how FW do it). In this way, you can create something near the diverse selection that the IG have.

I tried this sorta idea a while ago with marines, structured in a identical manner to The current Armoured Company list. Btw, for the marine list a Damocles should be compulsary if a Prometheus isn't taken as the HQ tank. Just a thought.

Dave out.