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zak
01-11-2006, 10:31
I have just played a game with my Orcs and Goblins and came accross a point in the game that left me a little bemused. The other player, who was also O+G's moved his boarboyz around a building, which meant that they were 8" from my Night Goblins hence my fanatics were released. My problem was that the the Night Goblins could not actually see the unit (as the building blocked there sight completely), but were within 8". My opponent stated that the rules say if his unit is within 8" the fanatics are released and that there is no rule specifying that it has to be 8" and have a direct line of sight (360 degress) of the unit. I find it difficult to beleive that a unit, my Gobbo's can't even see, will release my fanatics. Unless these Gobbo's have heat detectors, X-ray vision or some kind of mystic meg in the mists then I fail to see how this makes sense.

Please assist. Was I just conned or is this players interpretation correct and another example of silly rule writing (imho)?

mattjgilbert
01-11-2006, 10:34
This came up for us recently too. We releaed the fanatics as per the rules (8") but it didn't really make sense.

Maybe the mushrooms they have been taking give them special powers ;)

Flame
01-11-2006, 10:38
Your opponent was correct.

Lainer
01-11-2006, 10:38
Or they can hear them??

Festus
01-11-2006, 10:39
Hi

Your oponent was right: as soon as a unit is within 8" of your fanatics-carrying unit, the Fanatics are released.

LoS does not factor in it: They are even released if the enemy approaches from behind the unit, where there is no LoS.

Festus

Avian
01-11-2006, 10:41
It falls into the same category as players who seem to think that units who can hear a big, nasty Carnosaur crashing through the forest next to them but cannot actually see it would not be worried. :p

You don't have to see something to react to it.

Jakk
16-11-2006, 05:34
Your opponent was wrong. Fanatics in a unit have 360 degree LOS and from any point on the models' formation as per the release rules. This implies they actually have to have LOS form all of this to the models at 8" distance to release.

Festus
16-11-2006, 06:24
Hi

Your opponent was wrong. Fanatics in a unit have 360 degree LOS and from any point on the models' formation as per the release rules. This implies they actually have to have LOS form all of this to the models at 8" distance to release.
If you don't know the rules and insist on it in an old thread, you better beware, because you are talking utter cr@p here!

LoS is not even figured into it and certainly models within units other than skirmishers don't have 360° LoS. (Fanatics even are not models in units, but rules in units :eyebrows:)

But whatever makes you happy to believe... :rolleyes:

FEstus

Jakk
16-11-2006, 06:57
Hi

If you don't know the rules and insist on it in an old thread, you better beware, because you are talking utter cr@p here!

LoS is not even figured into it and certainly models within units other than skirmishers don't have 360 LoS. (Fanatics even are not models in units, but rules in units :eyebrows:)

But whatever makes you happy to believe... :rolleyes:

FEstus


Hmm, you come across as a complete jerk sometimes or maybe it is just that I am new here.

Anyways, the point I was making if it did not seem obvious thus far is that it seems that the fanatics as a concealed unit in of themselves have their own LOS irrespective of that of the unit which is why they can be released in any direction even if it is not in the direction of the triggering enemy unit and so do not have to be released when unit's come within 8" that would not be normally be in the line (such as behind appropriate cover such as woods). Obviously this ruling would not extend to units that that the concealed unit would normally be able to see behind most types of cover such as giants and large creatures.

Gameplay wise this makes sense so that the opposing player could not easily exploit the goblin player with scouts and such and ruin the game on their first turn.

Since it is not specifically stated in the O&G handbook I suppose that this would have to be worked out to a mutual consensus between the players.

Tutore
16-11-2006, 08:08
Rules are raw sometimes: at the right moment when you got the 8 inches, you must release the fanatics. You can still send them in whatever direction you want to, however.

Artemis
16-11-2006, 08:14
Hm. The point of fanatics is that they are risky to use. If you were guaranteed success with them they would be far too good. Hence it must be possible for the opponent to "lure" them out like this. That said, I see that it must be frustrating. It's kinda the same as being march-blocked by some silent scouts deep inside a wood. But again - fanatics get their charm from being random and dangerous to both players. They are not to be relied on:evilgrin:.

As to the rules: I believe that they only state that fanatics are released when an enemy unit is within 8". No exceptions allowed, if it doesn't say so directly. The rule that they can be released in any direction is an exception to line of sight - they do not need it, and never use it.

Griefbringer
16-11-2006, 08:20
Hmm, you come across as a complete jerk sometimes or maybe it is just that I am new here.


That was perhaps a bit rudely expressed on Festus behalf. :(

Anyway, welcome to Warseer rules forum, Jakk. :)

And as for the rules, as far as I have understood, LoS has nothing to do with the release of fanatics - as soon as enemy comes within 8" of the unit with fanatics, the fanatics are released - regardless of what there is between the two units (including squig herds, city walls, deep chasms, waterfalls, halfling bakery wagons, black orcs etc.). Yes, this is something that can be exploited by a cunning enemy.

Of course, players are free to make house rules for such situations where the night goblins should not be able to be aware of the opponents presence (eg. underground combat with two parallel tunnels within 8" of each other).

Festus
16-11-2006, 08:31
Hi

Yes, I am definitely a complete jerk...

...and I appreciate it when people come along, revive a two week old thread, just to claim the exact opposite of what was said before. And in doing so, they show themselves as having no clue of what they are talking about either: The rules are more than clear, and as Jakk comes along as know-it-all - in his very first post- and having read his rules, he was treated as he deserved.

Well, but maybe it is just me being a jerk :wtf:

Festus

Punk_in_Drublic
16-11-2006, 09:08
so where does this fit in with the "if you don't have anything nice to say say nothing at all" quote? :D

Later,

-Punk

squiggoth
16-11-2006, 09:16
You guys need some Squiggly love potion or something. :p

But anyway, the rules are clear and bright - come within 8" of a unit with Fanatics and the Fanatics pop out. No LoS, DoW, RoR, PMS, NMM or whatever required.

Festus
16-11-2006, 14:16
Hi

so where does this fit in with the "if you don't have anything nice to say say nothing at all" quote? :D

Don't you think that is it nice if I agree to being a total jerk myself? :angel:
And I even showed my deeply and sincerely felt appreciation as well ... :evilgrin:

Festus