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nurglich
02-07-2005, 20:55
Can somebody please fill me in, i know the enslavers from their rules in old wd but i didn't realise they had such a huge role in 40k history to say there's no mini's or fluff i can find. Are the old ones who i think they are (or were intended to be)? and surly if the C'tan are 'gods' they'd be more. i'm not a 40k player but i love reading fluff on these things, so any help on this subject would be appeciated ;)

Bmaxwell
02-07-2005, 21:09
Well......

Enslavers were a sort of "Plauge" that came across the galaxy that would use psykers as "portals" to allow more of there kind form the warp into the real world. and form some reason that escapes me this was a threat to the C'tan. C'tan are primeordial beings born in the hearts of stars. That the Necronrty found a way to awaken and use them or so they thought. The C'tan then started to both use the necronrty and eat each other and by doing so gaining more power. then the C'tan converted all necrontry into necrons and form there they ate the souls of the necronty. the C'tan's master plan is to cut the conecction between the real world and the warp. which as you can guess would have terrbile outcomes

thats it in a nut shell

nurglich
02-07-2005, 21:21
so where do the Old ones and the eldar come into this? and are the C'tan born of the same star? This seem's strange that its hushed in the codex's, in the way this obviously happened a long time ago. and the eldar mucst have memories of these events.I heard there was a rivalry between the old ones and the C'tan but not didn't know whether this was true...

Brimstone
02-07-2005, 21:54
From Rogue Trader.


The origin of these creatures, known to humanity only as Enslavers, is a complete mystery. Their ability to transcend normal space enables them to move easily throughout the galaxy and perhaps beyond. They have physical bodies, although unlike any other known life form. Enslavers are basically spheroid or barrel shaped, Approx.2 meters tall, with tough leathery skin. At the tops of their bodies a single large sensory organ sometimes called an eye, although its exact function can only be guessed at. Around the top of the creatures body is a cluster of tentacles, typically from 8 to 12, each about 1 and 1/2 meter long, often 2 of these tentacles are longer than the others and end in sucker pads. These tentacles function as both sensory and manipulative organs. Enslavers have no legs but move by floating, some ties assisted by their tentacles for faster or more precise movement. They can move quite rapidly by this means and can change direction and speed in a way comparable to humans and other more orthodox creatures. Enslavers float at up to 3 meters above the ground or floor surface, but can't fly as such. They can climb using their tentacles. Enslavers can change color at will, but the normal coloration is leathery brown with paler, sometimes white, tentacles. They eye organ is red, orange, of pinkish.

In human terms it is impossible to say whether Enslavers are intelligent. They can certainly act in a rational manner, and seem able to make reasonable decisions about their actions. However if they are able to communicate with other races they make no attempt to do so, and they use no tools or equipment of any kind. Even though they may theoretically be physically capable of using weapons, they never do. Manual work is conducted by their slaves, it being their ability to enslave other creatures that gives them their name. These creatures enslave other races by mental control; each Enslaver can take over and control the minds of up to 10 other creatures. Victims retain all of their knowledge, abilities and physical attributes, but are directed by the will of their Enslaver. This mind control ability has a range of up to 50meters.

Enslavers travel through the warp space by utilising the psychic vibrations of other creatures. As usual, the strongest and most easily tracked psychic emanations come from unprotected human psykers. Enslavers can detect such vibrations from tens of lightyears away and can home in and exploit unprotected psykers in a partially gruesome way. Once they have traced a victim three Enslavers band together to form a mental bond. The victim may be unaware of this at first, but gradual changes are forced upon his body chemistry, he becomes lethargic and skin begins to discolor. After a period of 50-75 hours the victim swells as his body tissue disintegrates and reform in to the shape of a living, pulsing gate of ruptured flesh. This is the end of the victim to all intents and purposes; he has been transformed in to a special form of warp gate, physical lint through warp space between the psyker's world and that of the Enslavers. Because the gate has been formed by three specific Enslavers only they may use it although they are unrestricted and may enter and exit as they wish.
Once on a world Enslavers can create more warp gated from any psyker that they enslave - even protected psykers such as Astropaths. These new warp gates are identical in appearance to the original one and will permit the passage of 3 more Enslavers. As before the new portal will permit only the passage of a septic 3 Enslavers. The three Enslavers permitted to use a warp gate may include creatures already on the planet's surface such as its creator. Clearly once its has begun, an infiltration of these creatures is very difficult to halt.
They have a natural weapon in the form of psychic shock. This has a range of 50 meters. Normally, however, Enslavers remain hidden and let their slaves do their fighting

You can find a Enslaver creature feature here. (http://uk.games-workshop.com/chapterapproved/creature-feature/2/)

nurglich
02-07-2005, 22:01
:eek: They have to make these guys some how... adverseries for codex alien hunters? I think theres a lot of potential in these ;)

Brimstone
02-07-2005, 22:11
:eek: They have to make these guys some how... adverseries for codex alien hunters? I think theres a lot of potential in these ;)

I take it you haven't clicked on the link I put on the bottom of my post ;)

nurglich
02-07-2005, 22:20
I take it you haven't clicked on the link I put on the bottom of my post ;)
i have but they need more imo... much more :evilgrin:

nurglich
02-07-2005, 22:25
so what of the old ones then?

Brimstone
02-07-2005, 22:54
so what of the old ones then?

This is pre-C'tan background remember you have to incorporate the Necron codex into this as well.


Of all the races in the galaxy the Slann claim to be, and may actually be the oldest. The days of their bright empire are waning, but still they remain amongst the most enigmatic creatures of known space. The Slann evolved, matured and spread throughout the galaxy many hundreds of thousands of years ago. During the heyday of their empire they discovered and nurtured many primitive creatures, encouraging the evolutionary process on coutless worlds, eradictaing or moving dangerous species, and seeding many planets with promising stock. For millennia they experimented and played with the galaxy, possibly creating many of the races of modern times in the process. But their empire dwindled, the pace of their civilisation slowed, and their genetic experiments were largely abandoned. The Slann retired from an active role in galactic affairs, falling into a long dream of indolence and introspection. They do not seem to have suffered from any physical conflict, there are no records of destructive wars or disasters. Instead their racial motivations appear to have undergone a sudden and drastic change, so that have lost interest in material conquest and power. Perhaps the Slann discovered something yet unknown to other races, some secret of the universe, a spiritual truth or supreme mystical insight. In therealms of psychic-philosophy and mystic-technology the Slann certainly have no equals, fulfilling themselves by study of spiritual life-forces and secret powers of other realities.
The Slann originally evolved from amphibian stock, and even today traces of their ancestry are not hard to distinguish. Their hands and feet are long and webbed, their skins cool and moist, their heads large with protruding eyes. They are quite at home in the water, and are capable of breathing oxygen from water (or other poorly oxygenated atmospheres) directly through their skin.
Slann vary in colour a great deal - green and blue are common, yellow is fairly well represented, and there is a scattering of other, rarer colour morphs as well as albino and melanistic forms. Brightly pigmented Slann are often extrovert, talented or especially noteworthy in some way. Skins are sometimes mottled, striped or otherwise marked. On some Slann worlds, and especially among primitive Slann, these markings represent tribal divisions. Height is fairly constant, with adult Slann reaching 2 metres, females are slightly larger and bulkier.
The Slann inhabit an area to the north of the galactic pole, living upon a number of proximate, prosperous worlds. The society remains closed to other races, but appears to be homogenous throughout, with a similar technical base, language and culture on each planet. Exceptionally, groups of Slann live as primitive savages on a number of worlds beyond Slann space, including planets of the Imperium. Strangely enough, these primitve Slann are scattered throughout the galaxy, and probably comprise the remnants of what was once a much larger pattern of Slann settlement. These primitives have little or no contact with their technologically advanced kin. The Slann are a curious people, rarely trading with other races and unpredictable when dealing with territorial disputes or any form of rivalry. There is little that the Slann want or need, and traders often get the feeling that they are being watched and studied, and that the exchange of goods is of no importance to the Slann.

Brusilov
02-07-2005, 23:05
Brimstone, this is my job dammit! I don't invade your rumours forum, don't invade mine ;) :rolleyes: :p

As to the Old Ones, as mentioned in the Necron Codex, they are the creators of many lifeforms across the galaxy. They uplifted many of these races but their greatest success was the Eldar, whom they probably saw as the heirs to their empire and their role as guardians of the galaxy.
Many people consider the OO to have been generally benevolent but I think they weer relatively cold and somewhat callous toward the younger races. After all they were probably the oldest sentient lifeform in the galaxy, they had incredible technology and they created many races. They saw as mice in a lab, to play with and shape as they saw fit.

nurglich
02-07-2005, 23:06
But now there all dead yes? well apart from warhammer world but were not aloud to link it any more are we..
Didn't the eldar have some greif with them?

Brimstone
03-07-2005, 07:09
Brimstone, this is my job dammit! I don't invade your rumours forum, don't invade mine ;) :rolleyes: :p

What can I say it's a subject I'm interested in at the moment, besides I still owe you and your horses a little payback. ;)


But now there all dead yes? well apart from warhammer world but were not aloud to link it any more are we..
Didn't the eldar have some greif with them?

The Slann/Old ones? no they are still around but the have become introspective and regressed socially to a far more primitive level.

Nazguire
03-07-2005, 08:15
What can I say it's a subject I'm interested in at the moment, besides I still owe you and your horses a little payback. ;)



The Slann/Old ones? no they are still around but the have become introspective and regressed socially to a far more primitive level.


Aye being in the 40k rule book as the Slaani, a bunch of aztec-ish toads with what looks like some type of poison gun and a more amphibious approach then that of the Lizardmen of Fantasy. Primitive could be in the eye of the beholder, perhaps that they still have advanced technology but choose only to use what they believe is safe

Brusilov
03-07-2005, 09:04
Ah, the much underrated Imperial Cavalry :angel: Don't worry, this time I'm coming with Sisters of Battle, not Imperial Guard ;)

From what is said in the Necron Codex on Old Ones hunting, it would seemed that they have regressed socially and technologically to a great degree, possibly in an attempt to avoid the attention of the Necrons, and also possibly because such damage was wrought upon them during the Enslaver plague that they've lost or fear to use their technology, which was probably heavily based on psychic abilities.

As to the link between 40k and WH, the stance I take now is that they're part of the same multiverse. That is they are seperate and globally unlinked entities, different universes in fact, but they are part of a great entity, the multiverse, which means the basic concepts of the universe are the same : the warp, the existence of Chaos, even races have been seeded across several universes.

It is possible that back in the days, the Old Ones had mastered the technology to travel between the Million Spheres of the Multiverse, seeding not only 40k and Wh but many other universes as well.
This theory derives from the ideas of Michael Moorcock, to whom much is owed as far as the basic ideas of GW universes are concerned.

Lord Balor
03-07-2005, 09:40
This theory derives from the ideas of Michael Moorcock, to whom much is owed as far as the basic ideas of GW universes are concerned.

All this multiverse talk makes me think of the concept of the eternal champion. Step back Elric and HawkMoon, its the Emperor and Sigmar all the way baby :p

Well i've just gone through all my second edition material and am having a hard time finding any reference to the slann. Is it Rogue Trader? If not could i get a reference to where you found it?

Brusilov
03-07-2005, 09:54
Ah the Eternal Champion, I doubt they'd be the Emperor or Sigmar, not quite tragic enough and does not fit all the requirements (the love, the campagnon, Sigmar lacks the enemy)...

Info on the Slann is as far as I'm aware solely Rogue Trader, and may even be limited to the rulebook alone in fact (don't remember any reference elsewhere).

Psiweapon
03-07-2005, 10:06
AFAIK, the WHFB world is a world in the WH40k universe, surrounded by warp storms (or should I say "warp gales" or "warp hurricanes"? heh) that the Old Ones used as a Galaxy Lite to predict what would happen in the big experiment. Or something along those lines. Don't ask me where this came from - I dont bleeping remember anymore, sowwy.

nurglich
03-07-2005, 10:59
So to presume a bit :rolleyes: the OO colonised the WW and created the now inhabitants from the DNA of the xenos of the galaxy in some bizzare arena of death type thing. So if we transfer magic into psychic power, wouldn't (petentially) become at risk from the attentions of the Enslavers, given that theres so much energy flying around the world? They materealise from the warp yes so warp travel is there mobility, so warp storms should have no effect on there destination (i think). Ive always linked the race's but had hard time figuring out why there is lizard men only on one planet, and all the speculation of sigmar being the missing primarch.
Where do the eldar come into this then, there successors?

Psiweapon
03-07-2005, 11:14
[...] so warp travel is there mobility, so warp storms should have no effect on there destination (i think).

"so air travel is their mobility, so air storms should have no effect on their destination (you think)"



Ive always linked the race's but had hard time figuring out why there is lizard men only on one planet, and all the speculation of sigmar being the missing primarch.
Where do the eldar come into this then, there successors?

About the lizard men, well, we know they were their "servants" of sorts in the WHFB world, perhaps they're some kind of gengineered servants they use in their homeworlds, or specifically created to fit their purposes in that world.

About the speculation of Sigmar=missing primarch, i've heard that too, and seems pretty interesting, but shouldn't there be TWO lost primarchs? for the two erased-for-good-and-once-and-for-all legions? But well, yeah, they're just filling because they first said there were 18 and then said there were 20, but that's the "out-of-universe" reason, I want an "in-universe" reason.

And about the eldar, I have no clear explanation, but I know nothing about WHFB elves (although I like Eldar, I loathe elves!!!) nor WHFB dark elves, nor what do they have to do with Slaanesh. Nor how the existance of Slaanesh is explained in WHFB world.

Brusilov
03-07-2005, 11:17
I used to believe the WW was part of the 40k universe but no longer. This thought is demeaning to WH and makes it something utterly unimportant. Who cares about a single world in the 40k universe? Nobody, there are countless worlds out there. Why would the Chaos Gods take so keen an interest on that planet? No reason whatsoever.

40k and WH are NOT part of the same galaxy, they exist in parallel universes which are set around the same rules, that is what the multiverse stands for: a collection of many universes all linked together by the same set of basic rules and the same general concepts (Chaos in particular).

If the OO from 40k are the same in WH they came through a rift between dimensions, they did not come on simple spaceships! I think I shouldn't have mentioned this possibility and kept it to myself...

40k and WH are in no way whatsoever linked or part of each other, except that they share the same general concepts.

nurglich
03-07-2005, 11:27
That would be the obvious explanation but i don't see reasons other than to drive this kind of conversation why GW would link (in a way) their fluff. Maybe (pure speculation here ;) ) Archaon is the other missing Primarch :eek:
Don't forget the Primarch's are prone to switching loyalties. There could be many reasons for the chaos gods to take a intrest in the WW, they could all be playing a huge game on one world where by the winner will dencend to the throne of the universe :eek: . Think about it OO vs Chaos, the classic good vs evil.... just a thought

sulla
04-07-2005, 07:17
I used to believe the WW was part of the 40k universe but no longer. This thought is demeaning to WH and makes it something utterly unimportant. Who cares about a single world in the 40k universe? Nobody, there are countless worlds out there. Why would the Chaos Gods take so keen an interest on that planet? No reason whatsoever.

40k and WH are NOT part of the same galaxy, they exist in parallel universes which are set around the same rules, that is what the multiverse stands for: a collection of many universes all linked together by the same set of basic rules and the same general concepts (Chaos in particular).

If the OO from 40k are the same in WH they came through a rift between dimensions, they did not come on simple spaceships! I think I shouldn't have mentioned this possibility and kept it to myself...

40k and WH are in no way whatsoever linked or part of each other, except that they share the same general concepts.

Yeah, I don't think it would be wise to go down the WW is part of the 40K universe thing... Remember that the chaos gods still have a large influence on the WW. If they really wanted to win, all chaos warriors would wield 'swords that roar and bite with their many moving teeth' and chaos knights would ride 'metal steeds that fly through the air and spit flames'

The only reason there is a link at all is that it was cheaper for GW to use many of the same miniature in both their fledgling games when they started the business. I bet that if they had infinite capital when they started up, nothing would have overlapped...well, maybe there still would have been space elves, space dwarves and space orks becaus the concept is fun, but even they are not neccessary when you consider the depth of foes for humanity in 40K today.

Kalianth
04-07-2005, 07:28
Yeah, I don't think it would be wise to go down the WW is part of the 40K universe thing... Remember that the chaos gods still have a large influence on the WW. If they really wanted to win, all chaos warriors would wield 'swords that roar and bite with their many moving teeth' and chaos knights would ride 'metal steeds that fly through the air and spit flames'

that reminds me of that wfb world campaign a while back, the one for albion, i always thought the rewarded items seemed an awful lot like 40k items....3+ save armor... a str8 "gauntlet".... an item that seems suspicously similar to an auspex...

Triceron
04-07-2005, 08:07
This is uncanny... I had a VERY similar concept of this kind of alien race...

I came out of War of the Worlds just this past friday and was thinking "Wow! This would be an awesome concept for Warhammer 40k". And I was thinking of ways of making it more different, more diverse to fit in the 40k Universe, but keep the sci fi influences from War of the Worlds, Space Invaders, typical alien races of the 40's-50's.

The first thing that came to mind was a race that looked more like the Tripods rather than the Aliens in War of the Worlds, something like the Martian Alien from Metal Slug series. Looks sorta like a multi eyed space jellyfish/cuttlefish. I thought more about it and thought it should have one eye, and lots of tentacles and a main body that's bulbous, but more streamlined than the current Enslaver pic.

Then I came here and saw the concept art and read the backstory of the Enslavers. Just... Wow!

Now I really hope to see this Enslaver race fleshed out as an army for 40k! It would certainly make 40k more Sci Fi. And imagine the awesome War or the Worlds style battle of IG vs Enslavers! :D

Psiweapon
04-07-2005, 10:22
To Brusilov:

I guess you know your fluff **** better than me, and I don't want to look (too much :D) like a little arrogant knows-it-all newbie, but the idea isn't mine, the idea comes from some knowledgeable folks at a forum I visit (I'm not posting the URL in case it's considered spam) and as I don't know what's the word of GW about this issue, I choose to follow my own version. And probably I'd do even if I knew, because GW's word would probably be something as unimaginative as "They're not linked. They're similar. They're two different games. We made orcs and space orks just because. Period", so, can we agree to disagree?

EDIT:
Although the "travel through dimension rifts" idea could work quite well, since both worlds share the same warp entities. Perhaps could you go from one to another through the warp? Perhaps the Ruinous Powers are so interested in the WW because it's the only world of relevance in that universe, or perhaps even that universe doesn't have anything more than that world.

Phunting
04-07-2005, 17:48
Re the old 'are they linked?' chestnut. In the end I think that it is down to your own personal preference. Officially, at the moment, they are not. But there is little doubt that they were intended to be in the beginning. And there is enough flying about to support that. From 3rd Ed WHFB, the RoC books, 2nd Ed C:Chaos, the Albion aftermath and even the new chaos fluff books.

I know a lot disagree, but I consider it to the same universe. I don't think WHF looses anything from being linked. It is really separate from 40k for all intents and purposes. And as the background always hinted that the WW was somehow important to the fate of the universe, it almost gives it a greater importance than it does if it is separate.

But in the end this is an argument that can never be won, as it has 'officially' been both, I donít think you can really say it is defiantly either any more. In the end it's whatever you want it to be.

QwertyMIDX
10-07-2005, 22:13
Wow, this is impressivly off topic.

The enslavers were a plague that awoke during the last stages of the war between the Old Ones (and their child races) and the C'tan and the Necrons. The Enslavers feed on psykers and as such the child races of the Old Ones, as well as the Old Ones themselves, were a very tasty source of food. So the Enslavers killed off most of the sentient life (at least the ones with psyhic powers) in the galaxy and that left the C'tan with almost nothing left to eat, so the remaining ones (who had survived the War in Heaven) went into hibernation to await the reseeding of the galaxy with tasty life-forms (ones that could feel the pain and terror they liked to season their meals with) and now they're waking up.

The Slaan are still alive, although they've regressed a lot, but the Slaan may be a child race of the Old Ones just as easily as the could be the Old Ones themselves, it's never really made clear as far as I know.

Brusilov
10-07-2005, 22:40
QwertyMIDX, threads always go off-topic, it happens all the time, dont be surprised ;)

Archaon is not a Primarch, he was a knight of the Empire, who discovered something that shook his faith to its core and made him leave his home and his past. He travelled to the Chaos Wastes, like many other hopefuls and eventually became the Lord of the End Times. I don't remember where I read that story, but there is a short story somewhere (I'm not even sure it's GW official) that has a very similar concept.

On the matter of the treasures of the Albion campaign, the references were done on purpose as a wink to the 40k universe and IMO were in no way intended to demonstrate that both universes are linked. It was a little clumsy however, if you ask me...

Triceron, Enslavers don't have armies, it's uncertain if they're even sentient. They are predators and use thralls from other races to do their bidding thanks to their incredible psychic abilities to enslave people. You'll probably never see more than half-a-dozen Enslavers at the same time...

Psiweapon, we can agree to disagree if you so wish. I would simply point out that in Moorcock's universes, many races appear under one form or another across the whole multiverse, but often with a different personality (beside humans, Elves spring to mind, although they have nothing to do with either Tolkien elves or even WH elves).

IMHO the fate of the WW is important because it is the only world the humans, elves, dwarves and all other races know of. It is their home and they have no choice but to fight for it or be swallowed by the tides of Chaos.
What happens if the world is overrun by Chaos? The races we know and love all disappear, but that's it. As far as I'm aware, the fate of the universe outside the WH does not hang on the victory of one side or the other. It's a closed environment.

nurglich
10-07-2005, 23:34
I was being sarcastic about the Archaon/Primarch thing :rolleyes: you really cant show sarcasm on text can you? Yes he was a Empire Knight, i think his full story is in the old Champions of chaos book... Ill have to have a dig in the old 'Wd and Codex' box :rolleyes: . But back on topic i'm deeply fasinated with the fluff on 40k lately and i don't have access to the RT books, and the codex's are so vaugue nowadays :rolleyes:, i'm trying to fill holes in my knowledge of the 40k universe. under the new rules update is it worth collecting a necron army, or do you think it will be a case of owning outdated mini's in a year or so? And do they suffer from the rule tweaks?

Brusilov
11-07-2005, 06:20
Use :rolleyes: for sarcasm, it's much better than :eek: IMHO
As to whether the Necrons will be outdated in a year or so, it's difficult to say (I'm no rumour specialist) but I don't think it will be the case, after all the Necrons have a relatively recent Codex (but that's no argument it seems considering the rumours of a Tau update).

sulla
11-07-2005, 09:04
I was being sarcastic about the Archaon/Primarch thing :rolleyes: you really cant show sarcasm on text can you? Yes he was a Empire Knight, i think his full story is in the old Champions of chaos book... Ill have to have a dig in the old 'Wd and Codex' box :rolleyes: . But back on topic i'm deeply fasinated with the fluff on 40k lately and i don't have access to the RT books, and the codex's are so vaugue nowadays :rolleyes:, i'm trying to fill holes in my knowledge of the 40k universe. under the new rules update is it worth collecting a necron army, or do you think it will be a case of owning outdated mini's in a year or so? And do they suffer from the rule tweaks?

Even if you don't collect the army, the book is well worth it just for the wealth of 'fluff' and it's sinister tone.

Personally, I find the Necron army a little 'soulless' (forgive the pun), as I need a leader to represent me in my armies and I can't even tell if Necron Lords are sentient from the book.

Apollyon
11-07-2005, 15:29
I always thought that Cypher was a nod to Moorecock's champion always on the move carries a sword unknown motives etc.




Ah the Eternal Champion, I doubt they'd be the Emperor or Sigmar, not quite tragic enough and does not fit all the requirements (the love, the campagnon, Sigmar lacks the enemy)...

Info on the Slann is as far as I'm aware solely Rogue Trader, and may even be limited to the rulebook alone in fact (don't remember any reference elsewhere).

Brusilov
11-07-2005, 19:26
Yes, that's also something that put me off with Necrons. I love to personalise my armies with characters and stories. Necrons are just a bunch of robots with a total lack of personality.

sulla
11-07-2005, 23:13
Yes, that's also something that put me off with Necrons. I love to personalise my armies with characters and stories. Necrons are just a bunch of robots with a total lack of personality.


I find the same in fantasy with lizardmen and tomb kings. They may well have motivations but I'm b :eek: ggered if I can fathom what they are.

Vampires and Inquisitors are about the best of the 2 game systems for personality IMO.

Brusilov
11-07-2005, 23:16
I disagree, at least with Tomb Kings and Lizardmen you can personalise your generals, make them come from various cities and even if the rank and file of the army lacks a personality, the characters still do have it (even Tomb Kings), while unless you field a C'tan (very boring gamewise), you end up with a bunch of automatons...

spud
12-07-2005, 00:41
There's actually a book of short stories set in the WHFB world that mak a direct connection between fantasy and 40k Slaan. I own the book, but can't remember the name of it, but anyway one of the stories involves a Slaan that hires an adventurer to take him to the north and find a burried Slaan starship. So yeah, back in RT the WW was apparently a planet stuck in the eye of terror, but largely untouched by chaos in comparrison to the hell worlds as it is encased within a warpstorm. This has however been stricken from cannon, much like the 4 gods of order that countered the 4 of chaos.

swordquest
12-07-2005, 01:23
I find the same in fantasy with lizardmen and tomb kings. They may well have motivations but I'm b :eek: ggered if I can fathom what they are.

Vampires and Inquisitors are about the best of the 2 game systems for personality IMO.Lizardmen have tons of cities, gods, cults, etc. and are quite pesonnalizable as a result. Tomb kings are one of the most personalizable forces as Nehekhara(or however the tomb kings [former]country is spelled) had a very long history and has lots of cities, gods, cults, etc. like lizardmen.

sulla
14-07-2005, 08:29
Lizardmen have tons of cities, gods, cults, etc. and are quite pesonnalizable as a result. Tomb kings are one of the most personalizable forces as Nehekhara(or however the tomb kings [former]country is spelled) had a very long history and has lots of cities, gods, cults, etc. like lizardmen.

What are a saurus lord or a skink priests motivations? To do what the frog says. What are the frogs motivations? To do what the old ones said to do...they are too railroaded for my liking. They also seem to be one of the least proactive races in the warhammer world; perpetual victims. They only respond to attack by others, or repond to theft by others. They never mass to attack chaos (their supposed enemy)

As for tomb kings, they don't have voiceboxes, they can't speak. They just do what they have always done but angrier. They are mere shadows of what they were before they died. They fight and sleep.Do tomb kings interact with one another? Do they bargain? Would a tomb king form an alliance with a bretonnian crusade to defeat Settra? Can a tomb king defeat another tomb king and gain his followers like he could when he was living? Would a hierophant betray his prince to a rival like he could when he was living?

Sorry, but give me a cunning Bray-Shaman or Highborn or a greedy Bret duke (and I don't even like Brets) anyday over these guys. I like the looks of both armies but I just can't connect with them at all.

Xisor
14-07-2005, 12:24
As for tomb kings, they don't have voiceboxes, they can't speak.

IIRC, they also don't have muscles, ligaments, tendons etc and all the 'paraphanalia' (SP?)that a pile of bones require to move :rolleyes:

I should think that Tomb Kings can comminucate, just with a magical tint....

Xisor

Brusilov
14-07-2005, 15:18
I would answer yes to all your question on Tomb Kings sulla. It's not because they're dead that they can't speak or cannot interact with others, but this is definitely not for this forum...

Personally, the more I think about it, the more I consider that WH and 40k are different universes in the same multiverse, and that the Old Ones fled from the 40k universe to the WH world to escape the C'tan, possibly taking with them the taint of Chaos (or as it is a general concept of the multiverse, it was already waiting for them there).
Either that, or they came from yet another universe, tried to settle both the 40k galaxy and the WH world, failed miserably and wrote them off as lost, turning their attention elsewhere in the grand struggle against Chaos (because to me the OO are the embodiement of Law, but then it's just that I have to have the Chaos/Law dichotomy)