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Invid
01-11-2006, 16:19
I was wonderigna bout strategies for Goldtooth, and the Slaughterer.

Tehy both look interesting to me, and seem to have very different playstyles. I was hoping to open a diologue on what the strengths and weaknesses are for these Lords, and if there is a better option out of the standard codex.

Thanks for the imput!

druchii
01-11-2006, 16:41
I was wonderigna bout strategies for Goldtooth, and the Slaughterer.

Tehy both look interesting to me, and seem to have very different playstyles. I was hoping to open a diologue on what the strengths and weaknesses are for these Lords, and if there is a better option out of the standard codex.

Thanks for the imput!

Do you want a "better" option that won't get things thrown at you?

I know around my parts, while we don't explicitly disallow special characters, people frown on their use.

It might be the guys I play with, but 98% of us prefer to play with out lord, converted and painted.

I think its also pretty hard to beat the basic "tenderiser tyrant" straight out of the army book. Tenderiser, kineater(or longstrider) and the wyrdstone amulet tend to be what I see most of the time.

He's cheap(for ogres!), VERY effective against other similar sized models, against heroes(watch that combat res jump!) AND he's got s/t/w/a5. I'd prefer to spend the rest of the points (that I could be spending on the special characters) on more ogres.


d

Mordu22
01-11-2006, 16:44
I'm not 100% positive, but i do believe that the Slaughterer is the only way you can get a lvl 4 mage into a orge army that is only 2000 points, so if you want some magic boost he would be the way to go.

Von Wibble
01-11-2006, 16:45
Imo Greasus is overpriced. He has M4 so forget about impact hits. Stupidity checks?? Against any unit worth targetting expecttem to use the generals/ accompanying characters Ld (ie at least 9).

Scrag is however very good (underpriced I feel). He is the only way to take a Slaughtermaster in games of 2000-2999 points so there isn't an equivalent option. With gut magic being as good as it is this is reason enough!

Jestor
01-11-2006, 18:48
Having all your gorgers turn up on turn 3 AND having a level 4 caster? Heck ya! Greasus can only be played in 3k+ games so i havent had the pleasure of his uses yet but Skragg is a fun guy to tool around with and can be devistating against gunline armies as long as he has a couple screens to get him into CC.

Saxon
01-11-2006, 20:49
I've played a few games with skrag and he is a monster, the extra gorgers are fun as well - and with the new rules with no lapping round unbreakable gorgers can hold units in place a lot longer than previously

showmydog
02-11-2006, 00:01
No, Never.
Special characters are always over or underpriced and never well thought out. It isn't very creative or original to take special characters either, convert your own, give him some backstory. Enjoy kitting him out yourself.

Special characters are annoying and tend to make games not much fun.
I once played against a combined 6k army with Settra and 2 chaos lords on dragons. Scary huh?
No. Not at all.
Boring
One Dragon charged some (12) handgunners and failed to break them, he then got smacked up by 20 saurus.
Settra somehow got charged by 20 spearmen and sat there for most of the game fighting a 165pt unit.
The other Dragon went to help Settra but got run down by knights after a bad combat involving many dead skeletons.

The lesson here, Characters should be only taken as a necessity, as support and Ld for core units. They should avoid maxxing out on magic items. Save points on characters and buy more foot sloggers. This is why special characters are unecessary, they eat too many points.


The above mentioned "TenderTyrant" is a great example to follow, a ward save and a magic weapon. It is not an excessive amount to spend on a 200pt Lord. As an ultra conservative i would probably settle for the ward save and an ordinary great weapon.


Enjoy yourselves,

Matt



PS. Our good friend Druchii is absolutely correct.


Do you want a "better" option that won't get things thrown at you?

druchii
02-11-2006, 03:24
No, Never.

Enjoy yourselves,

Matt

PS. Our good friend Druchii is absolutely correct.


Now that scares me(I thought halloween was a few nights ago?).

Honestly though; Most special characters can be fun, but let your opponent know. Sure they're legal, and I wouldn't short you TOO much for bringing one, but I play for fun with my local guys.

Now when we run our "special character" day, I think it'll be awesome. Everyone will KNOW roughly what to expect. Hell, do you remember HOW COOL that battle report between loard kroak and zacharias the everliving was(it was in a WD some ages ago)? I thought it was awesome to see two 3k armies, each with a 1k wizard lord blasting the crap out of eachother.

Again: While special characters might or might not be overpriced/underpriced (I think there are some of both, and some that are really well balanced, Khalida, for example). LET your opponent know before hand! I'd hate for you to lose out on games.

d

Mephistofeles
02-11-2006, 09:26
I too think that they tend to bring the game back to Herohammer and draw the attention away from the armies and the tactics of the game.

And then there is the problem that they are almost always either underpriced or overpriced, neither of which is very good.

If you really want to use one though, use Scrag. He rocks.

samw
02-11-2006, 11:48
No, Never.
Special characters are always over or underpriced and never well thought out.

Two words to that; Crom, Eltharion the Swordmaster. Both very balanced characters with fun special rules and an effect on the army you field.

woytek
02-11-2006, 12:32
Hmmmm anyone know gorbad's stats? Will make any orc army rock with the right composition...:D ;)

Von Wibble
02-11-2006, 18:31
I agree with the opinion that special characters are overpriced (all high elves except eltharion, louen leoncouer, greasus) or underpriced (thanquol, morgana, skrag, thorek), but the few exceptions to that rule can make a great game.

WE and TK have characters that are not overpowered and have clear weaknesses, but provide flavour to the army (it would be nice if the sisters had spears though - the picture of them does!). The Beasts characters are also good. The problem is that the approach to specials was to make them uber hard kitchen sink models (eg archaon, zacharius, kroak) when what is needed imo is good special rules that can make an interesting alternative to a normal lord choice. The OG ones all have a lot less in terms of special rules than I had expected, but the rules they do have make them interesting choices - Skarsnik in particular. They also have inherent weaknesses, eg Skarsnik has no armour and huge base so vulnerable to shooting iirc.

woytek
02-11-2006, 19:49
The OG ones all have a lot less in terms of special rules than I had expected, but the rules they do have make them interesting choices - Skarsnik in particular. They also have inherent weaknesses, eg Skarsnik has no armour and huge base so vulnerable to shooting iirc.

:eek:


Gorbad counts as general and army standard with leadership of 10 on 18" range...sorry no special rules? :rolleyes:

Tutore
03-11-2006, 04:05
We never use special characters. To your question, goldtooth is an ogre which does best if he isn't involved in a combat. What's the sense of it? More useful the slaughterer, however...

Dranthar
03-11-2006, 05:30
The problem is that the approach to specials was to make them uber hard kitchen sink models (eg archaon, zacharius, kroak) when what is needed imo is good special rules that can make an interesting alternative to a normal lord choice.

I totally agree. Special characters should introduce rules and playing styles not normally available to the army. It's why Skarsnik is so interesting, but also why Grimgore Ironhide seems quite dull.

kaldour
03-11-2006, 13:27
Absolutely. MY stance is that the special GENERALS at least should alter the basic strategy of the army, not just be meat-grinders. They should change what you are allowed to field, such that the army truly feels different from the standard set. Some notable successes in this category include:
Kroq-Gar [Lizardmen Cavalry]
Veredek Crom [Undivided Marauders]
Skarsnik [Forest Goblins]
Scragg the Slaughterer [Gorgers]
Khazrak the One Eye [Ambushers]
Morghur, Master of Skulls [Chaos Spawn]
King Louen Leoncoeur [Grail Knights]
etc.

Alathir
03-11-2006, 13:29
Special characters arent allowed in my immediate 'gaming group'. It just ruins things because you usually need to tool a really precise army around defeating them.

However, it's cool to agree to use one special character each in an army and just go for it. It's entertaining to see two decked out super crazies going at it. For instance, fielding Louen Leonocouer, king of the Bretonnians against Settra, King of Nehekhara.

Von Wibble
03-11-2006, 19:45
:eek:


Gorbad counts as general and army standard with leadership of 10 on 18" range...sorry no special rules? :rolleyes:

Read my post correctly before querying it please;)

I said LESS special rules not no special rules.

Gorbad gets no more in terms of magic items than any normal warboss could, his boar is normal. The general thing (plus its drawback) and unlimited Big 'Uns is all he gets - although big rules (especially the former). Compared to most special characters in previous books that's not much - each HE character had 1.5 pages on them for example.