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Big Boss Gerblash
01-11-2006, 19:49
How would this work? I was under the impression stubborn was only for a unit. Howerver newest white dwarf leaves me wondering (us 322 pg 60 second paragraph "article is march of the night goblins").

situation: Skarsnik Warlord of the 8 peaks is my general he is in a unit of NG with a BSB with the Bad moon on a stick. Skarsnik is now stubborn and my general can units upto 12" away use his stubborn LD of 8? I would have said no till the runtling in whitedwarf adv doing it!

woytek
01-11-2006, 21:01
I don't think it's allowed.

Baindread
01-11-2006, 21:38
Only in his unit. Stubborn is never passed on to another unit.

Gekiganger
01-11-2006, 21:50
Braindread is correct.

Big Boss Gerblash
02-11-2006, 02:38
Is there any straight rule pages you can give me for these feelings? AS far as I know this is the first where the general himself is stubborn. All other armies it is the unit he joins that is stubborn so this has never come up. Reading straight rules as far as I can tell this is legal. Progression is as follows. unit with in 12" takes break test uses generals ld. generals ld is stubborn so when taking break tests on this LD it is unmodified. I am taking a break test on generals stubborn LD yes? nothing says other wise unit is not stubborn but does not need to be as I am not using it's LD. Before the white dwarf I had never read it so carefully as no other general in the game can be stubborn himself it is always the unit he has joined. come on is stubborn greenskins on an 8 really that bad?

So yeah we are all for no except by rules please reference the negatory if there are any. I'll be playing my stubborn ld 8 gobos for awhile by the looks of it.

Woytek: given your interpretation of squig hoppers I'm kinda surprised you say no to the stubborn! This is just as vague but it is a break test using his LD which is stubborn.......

TheWarSmith
02-11-2006, 03:30
But the UNIT isn't stubborn, and you using a general's leadership does not bestow special rules.

If this were the case, marauders within 12" of slaanesh generals wouldn't autobreak from fear causers outnumbering and the like.

The ONLY thing you get from the general is his leadership, period!

intellectawe
02-11-2006, 04:31
Being a General doesn't give other units abilities. That would be nice if my Chaos Dwarf General could bestow all units with Hammers of Hashut.

Only the leadership is used, no abilities. This is simply given under the Generals section of teh advanced rules.

Gorbad Ironclaw
02-11-2006, 05:07
Whatever or not the general is stubborn is really irrelevant as he passes on his leadership. Thats the little number you have under the Ld. He doesn't pass on any special rules unless it specifically says so. There are no such thing as 'his stubborn leadership', and it's certainly not passed on.

It's hardly the first stubbon general either. High Elves have been doing it for years, and I would think Dwarfs can do it as well. Chaos too actually.

And generally, drawing rules from WD is a bad idea. It's just as likely to be wrong as correct.

Griefbringer
02-11-2006, 06:20
generals ld is stubborn so when taking break tests on this LD it is unmodified. I am taking a break test on generals stubborn LD yes?

Leadership is a characteristic, stubborn is a psychology rule. Characteristics do not become subject to psychology, so Leadership cannot become stubborn (neither can Attacks become frenzied or Movement stupid).

The general only passes on his Leadership characteristic. He does not pass on any of his psychology or special rules, unless otherwise stated.

Big Boss Gerblash
02-11-2006, 06:23
It's hardly the first stubbon general either. High Elves have been doing it for years, and I would think Dwarfs can do it as well. Chaos too actually.

And generally, drawing rules from WD is a bad idea. It's just as likely to be wrong as correct.

Dwarfs nope no character is in itself stubborn some units become stubborn with the character in them but the character isn't stubborn himself. as for namby pamby elves , I'm scared of them! :) (never had a book)

stubborn rule says unit LD is not modified when taking break tests logically this is a break test taken on that LD however I'm satisfied saying that special rules do not travel down the bubble (it does say LD value in the rule). This was my initial reading but given the idea by the white dwarf in a tactics article, I reread the rule and could see the interpretation....... Now to go back to my initial idea of using skarsnik and a black orc big boss with the bigboss as my general :evilgrin: no one will see it coming! It's a special character kill him he must be the general! notice I refered to the white dwarf article author as a runtling, no good sneaky git making me look a fool....... just making sure I wasn't missin somethin good, whoever heard of stubborn gobos anyway!

Autobot HQ
02-11-2006, 06:33
They're right, psychology is NOT passed on to units. Otherwise most of Azhags army would be stupid ;)

Big Boss Gerblash
02-11-2006, 06:45
They're right, psychology is NOT passed on to units. Otherwise most of Azhags army would be stupid ;)

right it only applies in certain situations stupidity creture/s with it test if you are with a unit of stupid blighters you held to the results of the test tho.....

it's only becuase of the wording I thought it might work when testing break on a stubborn LD it is unmodified characters bestow this on units units bestow this on characters.

as for the other psychologies each is handled differently under the characters and psychology section LRB 78

immune to psychology is lost if joining a unit that is not immune to psych but stubborn is passed on.......each is different.......<shrugs>

woytek
02-11-2006, 12:22
Woytek: given your interpretation of squig hoppers I'm kinda surprised you say no to the stubborn! This is just as vague but it is a break test using his LD which is stubborn.......

yeah well sorry, but I don't quite feel this is justified to see things like this. See all the other posts for why it's illegal.. ;)

TheWarSmith
02-11-2006, 17:43
Imagine a daemonslayer dwarf lord. He'd pass on unbreakable to units within 12" if this wasn't illegal. Imagine the PWNING. Have a dwarf warrior line 50 wide that's unbreakable.

Big Boss Gerblash
02-11-2006, 18:58
Imagine a daemonslayer dwarf lord. He'd pass on unbreakable to units within 12" if this wasn't illegal. Imagine the PWNING. Have a dwarf warrior line 50 wide that's unbreakable.

unbreakable is not passed on per the rule book only stubborn isn't strictly prohibited and daemonslayers/dragonslayers can not be generals per the dwarf rules......

Griefbringer
02-11-2006, 19:28
Imagine a daemonslayer dwarf lord. He'd pass on unbreakable to units within 12" if this wasn't illegal. Imagine the PWNING. Have a dwarf warrior line 50 wide that's unbreakable.

Well, the dwarrows already have the slayer list from SoC.

kaldour
05-11-2006, 04:35
is this done now? Or are we still in disagreement?

The general passes only his Ld value, nothing else. (see page 82)
There is no reference to stubborn being broadcast to friendly units (see pages 1 through 271)

DeathlessDraich
05-11-2006, 09:38
1) This is not unique. A Treeman Ancient is also Stubborn and no WE player would dream of passing on his Stubborness to units 12" away.

pg 78: "If a character that is Stubborn joins a unit, then the unit can use the character's unmodified Ld for break tests (effectively becoming Stubborn themselves) as well as othe Ld tests."

There is no mention of other units being made Stubborn.

pg 82: " All units within 12" of the General always use the General's Ld value...

Only the value is passed on and not the emotions/psychology with it! :p