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Nazguire
03-07-2005, 02:20
Is there any and if so could someone like to point me at it, or be even cooler and post it....if you do I'll give you all a cookie, I'll be your friend and possibly praise your existence. :eek:

I don't want any fan-fic, no siree I'm not that way inclined :p

Specifically about their society and space travelling abilities

Brusilov
03-07-2005, 08:57
There is some information in Battlefleet Gothic Armada, I'll try to post that later, if no one beat me to it. IIRC that's pretty the only place they're mentioned.

the one thing I remember for sure is that some of them have made a pact of mutual assistance, or something of that caliber, with the Tau.

Lord-Warlock
03-07-2005, 10:38
Indeed they have, they were IIRC the ones who sold the secrets of Ion weaponry to the Tau. According to the unofficial experimental rules (still written by Andy Chambers, though) they will ally with anyone except Necrons, Tyranids and Orks. Weirdly enough this means Marine fleets will ally with alien Demiurg, which is either revolutionary or a mistake on Mr. Chamber's part.

EDIT - I forgot the linky to said article. (http://www.specialist-games.com/battlefleetgothic/assets/pdf/unofficial/Demiurg.pdf)

Kalianth
03-07-2005, 11:11
aswell some time back when the plastic catachans were released, there was a series of articles in white dwarf about various IG regiments, in the one about valhallans, it depicts a conflict between them and the demiurg, unfortunately I no longer have this issue

Randallw
03-07-2005, 12:12
If that's the story I was thinking of, and personally I thought it was SM but I could be wrong, the Demirug created a mining colony on a world the Imperium claimed so naturally they were attacked. They had placed heavy bolters or lascannons, hell probably both, on a cliff and the Imperial troops had to climb the cliff to reach each Demiurg position before the demiurg surrendered.

Bmaxwell
03-07-2005, 23:35
what do they look like anyway? the demiurg i mean

The Emperor
03-07-2005, 23:40
The current theory is that they're Space Dwarfs, though there's no visual evidence to back that up (I.E. We've never seen a picture of a Demiurg). The only clues we have is that the names they use for things sound like the names a Dwarf would give those same things, and those same things look like something that a Dwarf would build. That's it.

Brimstone
04-07-2005, 06:05
The current theory is that they're Space Dwarfs, though there's no visual evidence to back that up (I.E. We've never seen a picture of a Demiurg). The only clues we have is that the names they use for things sound like the names a Dwarf would give those same things, and those same things look like something that a Dwarf would build. That's it.

Oh and the fact that Jervis Johnson said they were intended to replace the Squats, but apart from that nothing. ;)

Kalianth
04-07-2005, 07:02
i swear i remember seeing a concept sketch somewhere.. but i cant remember if it was fan art....

Triceron
04-07-2005, 08:28
http://www.dysartes.com/editorial/images/demiurg.jpg

(Posting this in a rush so sorry if I'm not giving credit to the host site; I just found the link off a quick google search)

That's a concept pic for the Demiurg. I even did a bit of research, and the word Demiurg means something like "Worker People" or "Artisan" in Greek/Latin. Dictionary.com also says it's a deity that creates material out of chaos. Interesting, no?

On a side note, I will be modelling something based off that concept as a unit for Dawn of War, a part of the Tau campaign/map I'm making after our mod is finished. I'm also going to be lending it to the Squats mod for Dawn of War. If anyone finds any more sources of Demiurg, please inform!

Kalianth
04-07-2005, 08:55
yeah, thats hte one... is that an official concept pic? or a fan pic?

Brother Munro
04-07-2005, 09:06
Its an official sketch by GW, though they have repeatedly denied that they are resurrecting the Squats ;)

Brimstone
04-07-2005, 22:24
Its an official sketch by GW, though they have repeatedly denied that they are resurrecting the Squats ;)

Well yes and no, Jervis has gone on record that the Demiurg were inserted into the 40K universe as a potential race based on the Squat archetype.

They may never be more than they are already with a occasional mention in articles about other races but the seeds are there.

Sephiroth
04-07-2005, 23:12
http://www.dysartes.com/editorial/images/demiurg.jpg

(Posting this in a rush so sorry if I'm not giving credit to the host site; I just found the link off a quick google search)

Didn't Jes Goodwin deny that was a Demiurg, and just one of his random alien sketches at a Games Day seminar?

Oh, and here's a much clearer picture.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/Zekk/demiurgsketch.jpg

Nazguire
06-07-2005, 11:58
Didn't Jes Goodwin deny that was a Demiurg, and just one of his random alien sketches at a Games Day seminar?

Oh, and here's a much clearer picture.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/Zekk/demiurgsketch.jpg


aahhhh that picture is much clearer. Mesees the similarities to the Stunties that Should Not Be Named But Are Anyway, and there are some differences...few but small differences.

Xisor
06-07-2005, 15:05
Goodwin HAS denied that that is a Demiurg. It was a 'concept' sketch, but it's been rejected. The Demiurg, IIRC, are intended to fill the 'Dwarf' archetype in 40k, not the 'Squat' archetype.

I've had good reception for an article on the Demiurg on the Inquisitor Conclave Forum, one that doesn't *add* much more than we already know...I'll add it up here at somepoint too

Xisor

rottin' daniel
09-07-2005, 14:47
a little some thing of wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurg_%28Warhammer_40%2C000%29
here they say that they are almost completely space-borne, yet they also mention them to be 'avid miners', and since mining you spaceship is mainley a stupid thing to do, it shows a conflict in this already doubtfull piece of fluff.

Xisor
09-07-2005, 15:12
Are you having a laugh? Space mining? Have you never encountered popular sci-fi before where asteroid belts, comets, gas & dust clouds are all plundered for the resources they provide? Vaporising an asteroid then scooping it up for use is quite more effective than a ton of 'orbital landings and launchs' from a planets surface. By 'avid miners' I think it's clear what it means, one of which is not that they take their picks out and attack the inside of mountains. :(

I wrote the first part of the Wiki-article, but feel the second part (what was the large last paragraph if you look at the history)is complete needless tosh. It is, IMO, a completely unhelpful and a useless opinion to present in what is effectively an 'official' capacity. Anyone mind if I scrub it?(Not least because it is untrue, as has been discussed)

:mad:

Xisor

TheSonOfAbbadon
09-07-2005, 15:14
I wouldn't mind if you scrubbed it.

Xisor
09-07-2005, 15:16
There, updated and scrubbed. If anyone knows(or is) the person that done the other modifications, I'd quite like to get in contact with them and come to a reasonable compromise for what is essentially an information database, and not a rant-platform-come-soapbox.

Xisor

TheSonOfAbbadon
09-07-2005, 15:34
Hmm, the wiki article is still exactly the same, maybe you did something wrong?

Xisor
09-07-2005, 15:43
Do you see:

In the tabletop miniature wargame Warhammer 40,000 Battlefleet Gothic, The Demiurg are a race of squat semi-humanoids, with notable traits shared with the typical Dwarf stereotype. For example they are avid miners, expert traders, in technological advance of humans at least and bear a particular hatred for Greenskins (Orks).

Particularly for the Demiurg it is noted that they reside on the far Eastern Fringe of the Galaxy and also found less often deep in the Cradle of the Galaxy (i.e. the Galactic Bulge see Bulge (astronomy)) They are an uncommon sight being almost purely space-borne in their massive and majestic Commerce Vessels. Their history is unconfirmed, as is their origins, intentions and current threat to others and all is at most shakily based on speculation.

The Demiurg appear to be affiliated in some way with the Tau, although it remains to be seen if Games Workshop will decide to transfer the Demiurg concept to the 40k line itself, or whether they will be left as a background race and for the specialist games like Battlefleet Gothic.

It is assumed that the Demiurg are the attempt to re-address the 'space dwarf' image that has not been present since the Squat race that was removed from the game for reasons of the company.

?

That was the one I put in, the other version had a whole 'larger' paragraph at the end essentially ranting, check the history if you need to see it. That last paragraph of mine is *okay* IMO, as it does represent that GW did remove the squats haphazardly, and is an accurate assumption(as hinted/stated by Jervis). I'd rather do without it, but I'm reluctant to admit, most people harp on about it at somepoint.

Xisor

sulla
11-07-2005, 09:15
Your version is completely adequate Xisor. Nothing more is needed on Demiurg in their current state.

BTW, as far as squats were concerned, there were some aspects that I would like to see reincarnated in the Demiurg if they ever make an appearance on the 40K tabletop; Living ancestors and exo-suits were both excellent concepts in my opinion. Fat leather-clad dwarfen bikers were not...

MidnightResistance
11-07-2005, 12:18
The exo suits should be armed with Rock Drills.
They can me mining suits adapted for combat :)

Nazguire
11-07-2005, 12:36
Agreed, the exo armour and the Living Ancestors were quite entertaining. Sado-masochist dominating gimps on trikes weren't. :cries:

Reading Inquisition War, the Squats have a lot of character and potential. Pray that the Demiurg were changed into something similar, but with more of an emphasis on the robotics and the exo-armour and less on the gimps.

Xisor
11-07-2005, 12:48
Nonono, don't taint the Demiurg with the Squats. They had good ideas, but Demiurg should be their own surely, and not the pulling from the corpses of the Squats.

Demiurg should be alot more 'than reinvented squats', I hope GW does that. Living Ancestors and Exosuits, if they come up in Demiurg fluff then wayhey for those that really want them, but I'd much rather see the Demiurg done *well* than being tied to crossovers from what they've already given up hope on.

Thats just me though...

Xisor

Marty D
11-07-2005, 22:17
if the demiurg were integrated into the squat background and take their place then we would see more land trains and forge world goodness, god i love land trains

- i had the old epic ones with unfeasibly huge mortars and cannons

no more bikers though - they were terrible, im sure the gunner had an ale in his hand too

Xisor
11-07-2005, 22:38
Why would that be the Demiurg be integrated to the squats? Why not simply redo the squads and leave the Demiurg alone? :wtf:

Xisor

sulla
11-07-2005, 23:06
Why would that be the Demiurg be integrated to the squats? Why not simply redo the squads and leave the Demiurg alone? :wtf:

Xisor

Because there's no reason to abondon some of the really good concepts from the squats just because of some...
Sado-masochist dominating gimps on trikes :D ...

Besides, The heavily armoured warrior and ever-living ancestor are Dwarven concepts. Just because the squats used them shouldn't prohibit any space dwarf concept from making use if it IMO.