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View Full Version : Thoughts on the Pseudo-Seer Council



Kaikami005
02-11-2006, 18:56
Does anyone have any thoughts on using both HQ slots on two Farseers? I had thought about running this option, joining the two Farseers together into one unit, and then supporting two units of dire avengers (both exarchs with bladestorm) with doom and guide. Is this too expensive to be effective? Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Kai

Carlos
02-11-2006, 19:07
Do you care more about fun and character, or winning? Take 2x seers and 10 warlocks to back em up. Add 3 wraithlords, some wraithguard and maybe a couple of guardian units and you have a very resilient, shooty army.

Inq. Veltane
02-11-2006, 19:12
Except I don't think that it is particlarly resilient or shooty. Warlocks are just too expensive and will die to small arms fire very easily.

The Doom + Guide combo is also, in my opinion, kinda overkill against GEQs and MEQs will be spared the worst by armour. The best way to use Doom is to choose a target and then unleash enough firepower at it to completely eradicate it. If you have the firepower to do that to two units a turn then take two Seers otherwise I think the points are better spent elsewhere.

Without augment and ablative Warlocks the strength of the Council is severely diminished. If I had two seers I'd use them independently more often than together.

Kaikami005
02-11-2006, 19:14
Both I guess :) ! I don't have the codex yet but I like the new Farseer model(s) and I played Ulthwe before. I guess my main concern was that I might be missing out on the cool new Autarch or Avatar. As a result, I wasn't sure how useful having two Farseers in the new version of the Codex would be. I had also thought about using an Avatar and a Farseer because I absolutely love the new Forgeworld Avatar.

psyberlord
02-11-2006, 19:21
Avatars are far too slick now to take two farseers...IMHO

Defenestratus
02-11-2006, 19:26
Not to mention Phoenix Lords. Despite people complaining that they are overpriced, they are still the feta of fromage amongst common munster.

Trinary
02-11-2006, 19:35
Take two Farseers for about the price of 10 marines each... Then take two units of Warlocks for 100 points more each... Maybe give a few powers to a couple of Warlocks for a few extra points. If both Farseers are joined to one Warlock squad the second can run ahead of them...

Of course this is quite expensive, even in a 2000pt game. And it is not exactly what I would call fun, and thus I would not do it. But you could...

Honestly... I have one Faseer tooled up, joined to a unit of three Warithguard with a Warlock. Fearless, toughness 6, 3+ re-rolled saves is an excellent bodyguard... And not too expensive.

Isambard
02-11-2006, 20:27
Seers on bikes. Say it with me.

Seers.

On.

Bikes.

You will all see the way forward soon.

pantera
02-11-2006, 20:41
Ive pretty much always run 2 farseers. Occasionally Ill play with a Phoenix lord or the avatar, but not very often. If you decide to take a pair of farseers, I highly recommend keeping them seperate. I despised my seer council more and more every game. By keeping the whole unit together, Id find myself in situations where Id want to boost a unit on one side of the board, but couldn't as the council was on the other side. Granted half the time it was my own short sightedness, but regardless.

On the flip side, even though the council as we knew it is gone, by taking an abundance of warlocks, you're still keeping with the Ulthwe theme. And apparently now warlocks can be taken as a seperate unit (I dont have the codex, so Im still a little gray in this area). And Im not sure about using the Avengers there, it seems a little pricey and out of character, though I admit Ill be using lots more aspects now. Id say that guardians would be better suited for babysitting, and let the Avengers go hunting.

But Im in agreement with Isambard. Now that I have a little skill with converting, I think Im gonna try my hand at the seers on bikes. Lots of potential there.

downundercadet07
02-11-2006, 20:43
You could just run a couple of warlocks (3-4) with the Farseer, give them destructor and jetbikes. Hmm, 4 doomed destructor templates...

CaptainSenioris
02-11-2006, 21:25
IMHO talk of two farseers, both taking warlock squads is a bit much, a single farseer with a decent sized unit of warlocks, with or without jetbikes is a pretty nice combo. With powers like doom, fortune, embolden, enhance and destructor in there it's pricey but would scare the living daylights out of most people, and it leaves the second Hq free fo someone else equally nasty.

Rork
02-11-2006, 21:35
I think if you want a psuedo-council you'll want Eldrad and a farseer friend. You can pump out 4-5 psychic powers a turn, while sticking to an ulthwé theme.

If you like taking special characters, that is...

Kaikami005
03-11-2006, 02:02
Well, while we're on the topic of pseudo-units...if you can detach the Farseer from his Warlocks, does that mean you could attach the Warlocks to an Avatar thereby forming a Spear of Khaine? Sorry if they've changed the Avatar rules and he is no longer an IC (don't have the dex yet).

Thanks Again,
Kai

nazdreg5
03-11-2006, 06:29
what does doom do?

Tigerguy
03-11-2006, 07:37
I have the new codex, and I can see why some people think you can take warlocks on their own, but you can't. The warlocks have a seperate line from the farseers, but that is only because you use the same stat line for the unit upgrade warlocks.

If your battle plan revolves around farseers and their powers, I would highly suggest two separate farseers. With T3, you'll see a farseer be insta-killed by POTW every few games. Especially if you've got spirit stones and are casting 2 powers for every farseer. Eldrad is a much safer choice, but I know some people don't like playing with special characters. Also, as suggested before, separating them allows you to cover a larger area of the board. Personally, I'll use one occasionally, but I'm looking forward to the autarchs and the pheonix lords.

Vanger
03-11-2006, 08:20
what does doom do?

Doom = re-roll failed 'to wound' rolls. You place this on an enemy unit, so effectively your whole army can benefit from it.

Farseer
03-11-2006, 08:28
First thing I did when I saw the precodex was to bring together an other SC.

Eldrad Ulthran + 10 Warlocks with embolden, enhance and 8 destructors. And they work great!

Sakura
03-11-2006, 11:30
Seers on bikes. Say it with me.

Seers.

On.

Bikes.

You will all see the way forward soon.

SEERS ON BIKES!

Over there zippidy zip.
Pimp the other unit.
Toughness and fortune.
3+armour and invulnerables.
more shooting.
And Peril that pesky Librarian with a rune.
Higher toughness or tank buster combat.
Where ever you want it.

This is a Elvan Hiku.

2 huge units of these will be as much a pain in the a$$ as the original seer councill was.

Nehcrum
03-11-2006, 15:44
First thing I did when I saw the precodex was to bring together an other SC.

Eldrad Ulthran + 10 Warlocks with embolden, enhance and 8 destructors. And they work great!
I wonder, how does Enhance work now, the farseer (Eldrad as well a no-name nobody) are IC. Enhance only affects the squad, in CC IC are counted as separate squads.

Warlocks are becoming a bit too expensive to be used as bodyguards, even with the re-rollabe 4+ inv save, they'll still get expensive losses if fired at by a mass of bolters and heavy bolters.

I'm starting to think about giving Eldrad a "bodyguard" by attaching him to a squad of Wraithguard, led by a warlock. Wraithguard are only 10 points more expensive than warlocks, and have twice the toughness. Fortune the entire unit and T6 with 3+ re-rollable save will be very tough to chew up.

The question is then what power to give to the warlock (spiritseer of course). Enhance to give them a boost so they hit first and on 3+, or conceal to give them a 5+ cover save (made re-rollable by Eldrad) to protect them against heavier stuff and make them near impossible to shoot out.

The question is, will enhance have any effect on a farseer (Eldrad or no Eldrad) since he is an IC and a separate unit in CC? Anyone know?

Brushmonkey
03-11-2006, 16:32
Well, while we're on the topic of pseudo-units...if you can detach the Farseer from his Warlocks, does that mean you could attach the Warlocks to an Avatar thereby forming a Spear of Khaine? Sorry if they've changed the Avatar rules and he is no longer an IC (don't have the dex yet).

Thanks Again,
Kai

Sadly not. The Avatar counts as a Monsterous Creature now, not ann Independent Character. ICs may join him, but he may not join squads.

Brushmonkey
03-11-2006, 16:33
I have the new codex, and I can see why some people think you can take warlocks on their own, but you can't. The warlocks have a seperate line from the farseers, but that is only because you use the same stat line for the unit upgrade warlocks.

If your battle plan revolves around farseers and their powers, I would highly suggest two separate farseers. With T3, you'll see a farseer be insta-killed by POTW every few games. Especially if you've got spirit stones and are casting 2 powers for every farseer. Eldrad is a much safer choice, but I know some people don't like playing with special characters. Also, as suggested before, separating them allows you to cover a larger area of the board. Personally, I'll use one occasionally, but I'm looking forward to the autarchs and the pheonix lords.

Do the Warlocks have anything about Retinue in their entry. If not then the Farseer doesn't have to be with them.

Shallowain
03-11-2006, 18:44
actually, it is nowhere stated, that the warlocks are a retinue. The codex says, that for every farseer you have in your army, you can buy a sqad of 3-10 warlocks, with farseer and warlocks counting as one HQ choice. They are therfore just an additional unit you can use without using up another unit slot.

Farseer
03-11-2006, 23:21
The question is, will enhance have any effect on a farseer (Eldrad or no Eldrad) since he is an IC and a separate unit in CC? Anyone know?

Naturaly it does, as it counts as seperate models, not as seperate unit. Otherwise you would have to throw 2 fortunes, one for the 'locks and one for the 'seer