PDA

View Full Version : I tried 2 army specific forums. Please be unbiased, help me make a choise



lordmetroid
02-11-2006, 20:00
I like to play fantasy. I really do even though all this time I have yet to get me an army for this game.

However if I play fantasy it would be because it is a completly different game compared to 40k. I can make use of other tactical decisions and rules that add tacticaly interesting features to the game with fantasy. The choise have come down to either Skaven or Empire

I have been intrigued for as long as I know by Skaven compelling background and atmosphere especially Clan Skryre. While I don't find Empire background all that interesting to me. I never played humans before and that aspect is somewhat cool being the underdog against all odds.

Both the army's models sucks in my opinion but now Empire getting new improved ones and that's positive. If I would be playing Skaven I would probably need to convert everyone of the models to fit with Skryre and fix the skaven models' all flaws that they will have. I like to convert and sculpt but doing so for a whole army might become a little bit excessive.

I don't have much experience of the fantasy game. But does it feel that there could be more tactics for Skaven compared to Empire. However both Warhammer-empire.com and Underempire.net tells me their army is the army which is most tactically challenging. I am compelled to play Skryre if I play Skaven and in an Empire army I would like to have artillery as well. However as artillery and Warmachines doesn't contribute to tactical decisions very much I don't have any intension to go overboard with the element. But it sure is tempting because I purely like the idea of it

So I have about two equal armies. Skaven has more compelling fluff while Empire will get more compelling models now and I have no idea which is more tactically challenge. Help:eyebrows:

FlameKnight
02-11-2006, 20:24
People will hate you for playing srkyre skaven. Generally competitive srkyre lists aren't much fun to play against, and have been dubbed 'SAD' for "Skryre Army of Doom"

Fideru
02-11-2006, 20:30
If you want a display army, go with the Skaven, and if you want people to actually play you than Empire. (I'm saying that because of SAD)

Gorbad Ironclaw
02-11-2006, 21:26
Well, skaven is an all-round harder army than Empire, sp if you are after the greatest tactical challenge, Empire would be a better bet than skaven, simply because there are more raw power in the skaven book than in the Empire book.

Count de Monet
02-11-2006, 21:35
I have been intrigued for as long as I know by Skaven compelling background and atmosphere especially Clan Skryre. While I don't find Empire background all that interesting to me.

OK so far...



Both the army's models sucks in my opinion...If I would be playing Skaven I would probably need to convert everyone of the models to fit with Skryre and fix the skaven models' all flaws that they will have. I like to convert and sculpt but doing so for a whole army might become a little bit excessive.

Umm...yeah. If you feel the models suck...I would STRONGLY advise against either army. It would take forever to convert a horde army like Skaven.

I'd suggest a three-part plan. One - enjoy the Skaven background. You don't need to buy or paint a single model to do that. Two - get a few Skaven models that you like/could convert and do them solely as a modelling and painting project, and so you can have some of your beloved Ratmen on hand to gaze at. Don't go beyond a box and a few blisters. Three - find another army that you like the look of the figures. Make your own background for them if you don't like the GW one. Play them.

gukal
02-11-2006, 21:36
Both are flexible armies that allow for very diverse competitive lists. Both are capable of fielding a great deal of firepower. Both have interesting and complex rule interactions.

In my opinion, you should go Empire because you're likely to get a nice model update soon.

- Gukal

Revlid
02-11-2006, 21:38
*Says lots of stuff. Gives advice*

I agree, but with one change: If you feel up to converting an entire horde army, then go for it. I would probably wait until you've already done another army, to get into the swing of things, but a fully converted horde Skyre army will look fantastic if done well.

NakedFisherman
02-11-2006, 21:48
Well, skaven is an all-round harder army than Empire, sp if you are after the greatest tactical challenge, Empire would be a better bet than skaven, simply because there are more raw power in the skaven book than in the Empire book.

Not really. SAD and silly gunlines exist for both, although in the new rules SAD isn't particularly viable.

I wouldn't consider one army 'harder' than the other. Skaven just had more opportunity to create broken armies.

javaguru
02-11-2006, 22:29
Go with what inspires you most. It's a hobby for your enjoyment and you'll probably find yourself collecting multiple armies for YOUR enjoyment.

Mephistofeles
02-11-2006, 22:37
It seems to me as though you want an army that is good looking, has cool fluff and is fun to play with. Am I right?

If so, I wouldn't be afraid of you going along the road of Empire Gunline or Skaven SAD, which is the cowards way to go, and not at all tacticaly challenging. You seem to be a reasonable chap, so I'll give you some advice, although I'm not that much of a veteran to this thing.

I play Empire, for two reasons:

1: I love the real-world feeling in the tactical challenge, with cannons to take out hard targets, handgunner/crossbowmen to take down incoming units which are harder then my units, and big blocks of troops to support eachother and wheight down my opponents. It's the tactical challenge I've always looked for.

2: I could use their rules to field myself a Cathayan Force.


Now, looking at that, I play Empire because of the fluff, and the tactical challenge. Now, here is a little theory, it might be correct, or it might not:

Skaven is just as challenging as Empire to play, tactically. BUT while Empire is more tactical on the field, Skaven is more tactical when it comes to picking the army. With Skaven, it's all about smart choices and tricky combinations, and then you put 'em on the table and see how it goes based on you calculations, and then afterwards you further trim these calculations.

So basically as I see it, Skaven are more for those players who like to sit and think and do maths and calculate outcomes beforehand, spending hours over their books or in forums devicing tricky armies.

Empire is more for the classic General, who takes a selection of everything he has, puts together a good and strong force, and then sees it as his prime objective to lead them on the field.

That's my thoughts on it anyway.

Dtrik
02-11-2006, 22:45
To me it seems like you are more enthusiastic about Skaven. TRUST ME, you should love every aspect of your army or there is a good chance you'll lose interest and start regretting your choice and instead wishing you got another army. There are so many choices and so much flexibility in warhammer that it isnt hard to find an army that you love their background, models, and play style. It seems like you would enjoy skaven, but be prepared to paint ALOT of models, the only good skaven armies are ones with countless little furries. Hopefully with their new addition the clanrat models will improve but who knows when that will come out.

If you really like Empire models and play style but dont like their models, look further into their background including specific themes of Empire armies, they have such a rich and diverse history you are bound to find something you enjoy. Keep doing research and just try to imagine yourself far down the line painting and eventually playing with the army.

skavenguy13
02-11-2006, 22:50
Well, I don't know that much about empire, but for your Skryre skavens:

-clanrats have Skryre shield icons. The round ones with spikes. For the feet, just a quick modelling should do it. Oversized hands don't really show when your army is complete

-Skryre is known to have many slaves, but also has slaves from many different races, to experiment. So instead of taking clanrat models, you could take better-sculpted goblins, humans, etc.

-With Skryre, you can give your imagination a go and think of a crazy invention and make rules for it. Or "use as" an already existing invention.

And about how challenging an army is, it mostly depends on you. If you take a gunline or an all-cav army, it's not. But if you have diversity and not use only what seems the most powerful choices, then any army is challenging.

I invite you to look at the Council Of Thirteen for more advice :) (link in my sig)

gorenut
02-11-2006, 23:41
What exactly don't you like about the Empire models?

The Empire is so diverse that pretty much any human model is feasible in an Empire army. I personally created swordsmen with almost entirely out of the Free Company box with the addition of Bret bits.

I was going to do that with the entire army until I saw the new models. I think most the new ones are ace.

In the end, I think how the army looks and whether you like the models is ultimately what you should base your army on. It's the actual physical materials you are paying for afterall. Just my opinion.

Melchiah
03-11-2006, 00:19
Well i wanted to do Skaven but i didnt want to wait a year for the book so i desided orcs which i love now. So skaven is good pick but if you go for empire you run the chance of the "empire bandwagon BS" kind like the orc bandwagon bs but less orcie. But come on how can ratmen not be cool?

gorenut
03-11-2006, 00:56
I disagree with the bandwagon theory. Bottom line, if you like the models and know you wll enjoy them, don't let other people's opinion bog it down. It's not like Empire = Space Marines. After the grace period, they will just be another average army. If anything, because there is a bandwagon, it probably means atleast the models are decent.

Alathir
03-11-2006, 02:22
But come on how can ratmen not be cool?

Because they are just that. Freaking rat men.

I hate Skaven in almost all its forms, so I would encourage you to go with Empire... but I whole heartedly agree with gorenut when he says its all about the models. If you dont really like your army's models then you will get tired of them fast. Trust me.

Kaikami005
03-11-2006, 02:29
My advice would be to purchase both army books, read the fluff, and then play some games (either by yourself or with some friends/gaming group) with counts as models (pennies,etc. work here:)). Try to get a "feel" for each army and after a while you will have a better idea which one you like. As for having purchase both books, is that really such a big loss? Personally, I enjoy reading GW fluff and have quite a few army books for armies that I never intend to play but enjoy reading about anyway.

Hope that helps,
kai

Drogmir
03-11-2006, 03:05
My advice if you simply don't love every aspect about an army don't choose them.

Simply put I loved Space Marines So I got them

. I Loved Brettonian Models but hated their background and fighting style.

Empire I hated their models (which are getting redone soon) Found their background tolerable, and Absolutly loved the way they place. Specialists that must balance the 3 aspects of combat (BRILLIANT!)

THat's why I chose Empire

Tutore
03-11-2006, 05:02
Both armies are very interesting; however, I think playing skaven could be, for the first battles, a little bit harder.

snurl
03-11-2006, 05:09
Agreed; Skaven troops may run away a bit quicker than their Empire counterparts.

If shooting your own troops by accident or running away isn't your thing, then go Empire. Otherwise, Skaven are fun.