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Voronwe[MQ]
03-11-2006, 11:37
As most of us know, I suppose, laser beams are not visible unless it is very foggy or smoky. In many pieces of art and all Black Library stories, you can either see lasshots or they are described as visible (though ometimes, however, you can actually see reasons to 'legitimate' a description dependant on the surroundings. for example, in Double Eagle, by Dan Abnett, I remember that a 'dogfight' between Phantine and Anarch airplanes took place over a jungle, which, I suppose was the backlying thought, steamed a lot (as jungles do), but some of the steam are not only 'Terran-esque' steams rising, dependant on local minerals etc. 'two brilliant daggers of light shot out from the lascannons' nozzles, shining electric blue as they caught up with the Archenemy plane with the speed of light' or something. and on another occasion there was pattern-bombings - which throws up a lot of dust) and a description of visible lasshots.). In Dawn of War the Imperial Guard's (and supposedly also Eldar, then) energy weapon shots are visible. Though don't think that plasma would not be visible, if you would make the mistake of side-interpretate it that way here.

You only see the impact (and possible the 'nozzle flame' as I refer to it in this situation) of lasshots, but not beam. And since laser, of course, travels with the light of speed, I doubt you would see much more than a purplis, fading post-picture on your retina if the physics of the universe worked differently and allowed you to see it.

Also, I think that in the second edition of Warhammer 40'000, it should have been autoguns, and not lasguns, who had the -1 armour penetrater bonus, since I believe that lasguns are the primary standard Guard weapon due to the fact that the difference between lasweapons and autoweapns are not big at all, and, unlike autoweapons, lasweapons are more flexible and easily rechargeable out in the field, but that most auroweapons have slightly more 'punch'.

Voronwe

Slaaneshi Slave
03-11-2006, 11:40
There is no flash from a laser weapon.

Yog_Sothoth
03-11-2006, 11:42
Invisible Laser may be realistic, but also boring.
Call me a whore for eyecandy, but imho it´s more fun seeing the enemy vaporized by a spectacular beam of shiny death.

Gaebriel
03-11-2006, 11:46
Having a Laser weapon, which sends out a beam of bundled light/heat/energy anyway, it shouldn't be a problem adding a beam in a visible frequency. It would make sense as tracer, or for targetting. And it should of course be possible to switch between visible and invisible wavelengths.

Slaaneshi Slave
03-11-2006, 11:48
A soldier isn't a soldier if he can't say "Watch my tracer!" as he shoots some enemy in the forhead with a glowing round, now is he?

jfrazell
03-11-2006, 12:09
I can understand a laser weapon. I can understand a laser weapon int eh visible specturm (ok, not really). But Lasguns are noted as being loud when firing (Abnett books), having impacts etc.

Er...no.

Gaebriel
03-11-2006, 12:17
There is another philosophy of "Laser"-weapons - taken from the Star Wars Blaster. These fire bolts of highly ionized gas instead of a beam. I think that might be what Abnett has in mind.

operon
03-11-2006, 12:32
Having a Laser weapon, which sends out a beam of bundled light/heat/energy anyway, it shouldn't be a problem adding a beam in a visible frequency. It would make sense as tracer, or for targetting. And it should of course be possible to switch between visible and invisible wavelengths.

No no no -- this is a popular and completely wrong misconception about lasers -- the reason they're invisible is not because they're not operating in a visible frequency (although some in fact are but this isn't the relevant bit).

It's because you can only see photons when they're hitting your retina. i.e. when the laser is pointing into your eye. Bad idea with a laser pointer and very bad idea with a lascannon. You can't see a laser beam from the side (given ideal conditions) because a defining characteristic of a laser is that all the photons are going in the same direction.

However smoke etc. scatters some of the photons from the beam in random directions, some of which will hit your retina if you're looking that way. It doesn't affect the wavelength of the beam, at least not so you'd notice. The dot on a laser pointer is the same red when you see it on a surface (reflected) as the colour of the beam in a smoky atmosphere (scattered) and as the red flash you see if you point it into a TV camera (I don't recommend trying it directly into your retina but you're welcome to if you want).

Andrew.

Lancer
03-11-2006, 12:41
At the power levels you see in lasguns (19 megajoules per shot), your going to start seeing electrical breakdown of air. So it's no more pseudoscientific to depict visible lasbolts than it is pseudoscientific to depict bolts of lighting. In each case, your not directly seeing the event in question, your just seeing its effect on the atmosphere.

operon
03-11-2006, 12:57
Good call, Lancer, plus the amount of smoke on a battlefield will give you plenty of scattering anyway -- as anyone who's been to a rave knows.

As for recoils and impacts though, don't these people know how small the mass of a photon is?!?

Andrew.

Slaaneshi Slave
03-11-2006, 13:06
Please tell me you didn't just compare a rave to a combat zone...

operon
03-11-2006, 13:10
Dude, I've been to some pretty hectic raves.

Andrew.

Slaaneshi Slave
03-11-2006, 13:14
Ever get mortared at a Rave?

operon
03-11-2006, 13:17
Well I've never heard it called that before, but it's a pretty good euphemism.

Andrew.

precinctomega
03-11-2006, 13:32
Gutersloh, eh, Steve? Been anywhere hot and sandy recently by any chance?

Anyway, I think it's fine to illustrate lasguns as having noise, light and "kick". Lasers (as in light amplified by the stimulated emission of radiation) make crappy antipersonnel weapons. Their damage is too precise, their radiation too easily disrupted by atmospheric conditions and their power-demands too intense.

It is patent that the "lasgun" is, in fact, NOT a true laser weapon but some other sort of energy transfer device that happens to make use of photon radiation in some part of its mechanism.

In order to operate, it requires only a basic (low) input of energy, can operate in both dense atmospheres (although probably not liquid ones) and vacuum and requires very few moving parts to operate effectively. The technology that underpins its operation is incredibly sophisticated by 21st Century standards and I cannot think of any obviously applicable science that we currently understand.

R.

Voronwe[MQ]
03-11-2006, 13:36
Invisible Laser may be realistic, but also boring.
Call me a whore for eyecandy, but imho it´s more fun seeing the enemy vaporized by a spectacular beam of shiny death.

It's too Star Wars-esque. I agree it looks very good, but I prefer a slightly unrealistic 'mouth flame' and a (perhaps slightly unrealistic) blast against the enemy/ground/roof/wall/tank, or just plasma or melta weapons.

After all, it would give the impression of ammunition travelling at the speed of light much better.

Laser 'breaks down' in atmosphere (or loses beam itegrity weapon-wise), as precinctomega stated. I know it was very true what you said, though I still like to think that the power packs are, to put it metaphorically, advanced in such a way they 'comprimates' the energy far more effective than we are used to in any technological area. This is not to say that it is unpredictable because it is a high technology (they tends to be), since it is a very basic mechanism/technology in the 41st millenium.

Lancer (fat style to get you notice this), lasweapons does not work in the 19 megajoule 'energy spectrum'. 19 megathule, as stated in that Eye of Terror White Dwarf, shall not be seen as a bastardisation of joule, in my opinion. Though I would really want it to be that way, though it would not really look in the Star Wars-esque way we're used to. :)

TrooperTino
03-11-2006, 13:53
I like the idea that laser weapons are in fact no real lasers but photonbased weapons of some kind we don't understand. like the laserbeams in StarWars but much faster.

totaly agree to the point that a good autogun should be more powerfull than a standart lasergun. An improved lasergun like the Triplex-pattern is perhaps equal, but a standart lasgun has its favours in other points than impact-power.

A 'mouth flame' (muzzleflame?) could be explained with the oxygen insida the barrel been heated into some sort of plasma by the laserimpulse and 'pushed' outside very fast...

my english is crap, i know...

Slaaneshi Slave
03-11-2006, 13:54
;1051834']I agree it looks very good, but I prefer a slightly unrealistic 'mouth flame' :)

Mouth flame..? I have an image of Ba'alzaman with a lasgun now... I assume you mean muzzle flash?


A 'mouth flame' (muzzleflame?) could be explained with the oxygen insida the barrel been heated into some sort of plasma by the laserimpulse and 'pushed' outside very fast...

A laser has no barrel though. As soon as its through the targeting crystal, its gone.

jfrazell
03-11-2006, 14:09
I like the idea that laser weapons are in fact no real lasers but photonbased weapons of some kind we don't understand. like the laserbeams in StarWars but much faster.

totaly agree to the point that a good autogun should be more powerfull than a standart lasergun. An improved lasergun like the Triplex-pattern is perhaps equal, but a standart lasgun has its favours in other points than impact-power.

A 'mouth flame' (muzzleflame?) could be explained with the oxygen insida the barrel been heated into some sort of plasma by the laserimpulse and 'pushed' outside very fast...

my english is crap, i know...

OTT - Your English is quite good, even down to proper usage of the
term "crap."

Again, fluffwise I could see a laserweapon, or some type of pulse/ion/plasma blaster/autorifle. Instead of blasting holes it could be a cutting beam that would have a similar impact (example is the laser in the bad movie ripoff of Congo that slashes into several apes). It wouldn't go bang but we could say the battery discharge makes it go...

FREEEM!!!:D :D :D

Voronwe[MQ]
03-11-2006, 14:18
I like the idea that laser weapons are in fact no real lasers but photonbased weapons of some kind we don't understand. like the laserbeams in StarWars but much faster.

totaly agree to the point that a good autogun should be more powerfull than a standart lasergun. An improved lasergun like the Triplex-pattern is perhaps equal, but a standart lasgun has its favours in other points than impact-power.

A 'mouth flame' (muzzleflame?) could be explained with the oxygen insida the barrel been heated into some sort of plasma by the laserimpulse and 'pushed' outside very fast...

my english is crap, i know...

Oh, so that's the way that laser weapons worked in Star Wars. Of course it should be much faster, as you say, but still its not a bad idea at all.

Exactly (I thought the Triplex-pattern lasgun was an interesting addition, but that's not for this thread anyway), since the difference is not too big, but the field-practise worth of it is huge.

Your english is better than some english people I've met.


Mouth flame..? I have an image of Ba'alzaman with a lasgun now... I assume you mean muzzle flash?

A laser has no barrel though. As soon as its through the targeting crystal, its gone.

Shai'tan with a lasgun. :D

I meant muzzle flash. Not a barrel in the traditional view, but a barrel along which the components (including the, metaphorically referred to as 'riflings', but have nothing to do with their look. mentioned in the third edition eldar codex, it meant that it countered the atmospherical disturbs) sits.

Are you sure that you need a targetting crystal for a lasweapon/lasdrtill? It's one thing with almost perfect molecular construction, but is it really of much use?

Kage2020
03-11-2006, 14:23
I said "Other". Why? All of the descriptions that I've seen have never overtly sold me on the premise of lasguns actually being laser weapons. Thus I tend to use "blasters" in the Star Wars mold.

Kage

Slaaneshi Slave
03-11-2006, 16:15
If you have no crystal to focus the light, its just a candle.

Xisor
03-11-2006, 16:37
When it comes down to it, it does seem that blasters of the Star Wars 'idea' are far more akin to Pulse Weapons than Las Weapons. And in turn, Pulse Weapons are essentially plasma weapons...

I feel that over-all it is poor form to be depicting 'tracers' from a lasgun. If you want your guardsman to be shouting "follow my tracer!" you have him firing an autogun, not a lasgun! I like the idea that Lasguns are actually very high tech, ie superior scientifically, not just technologically sophisticated, to pulseweapons.

That is, as PO pointed out, the technology required to imagine a Laser being a useful AP weapon is astounding. Turning Plasma into a weapon isn't as astounding as it is simply 'tricky'.

Being essentially still lasers, I therefore entirely agree with the idea that 'tracers' and 'time delays' between firing and hitting shouldn't be part of Lasgun fiction or imagery. An actually 'lance' or line of light from A to B, I can accept, but not a 'bolt' as such.

The flash could simply be an offshoot of the technology, the beam diffracting substantially as it leaves the gun, perhaps? I could also live without the 'flash' too...

Xisor

Kymar
03-11-2006, 17:22
Seeing that image & style is very important in 40k (the cool factor) I think that las-weapons should have a visible shot. Though its cheezy, whenever I see line of guardsmen fire, I can't help but imagine it looking like GI JOE with the red & blue lines flying around. ;)

Brother Smith
03-11-2006, 18:33
Guys remember that Autoguns are NOT like modern day guns.

That would but stubbers. Autoguns are pretty high tech by todays standards.

Voronwe[MQ]
03-11-2006, 18:51
Indeed, such as 150 bullets in 0.8 seconds. There is an enormous variation of all manner of weapons, but especially so the autoweapons.

Emperor's Grace
03-11-2006, 21:12
;1051834']19 megathule, as stated in that Eye of Terror White Dwarf, shall not be seen as a bastardisation of joule, in my opinion.

I always thought thule was a portmanteau of thousand joule.

Essentially megathule = mega-mega-joule

And put me down for the blaster theory

Asi the Red
03-11-2006, 21:23
Hey ya'.

I can see them having a visible las-shot, as well as perhaps a muzzleflash and report.

Assuming that "19 Megathules" is some ridiculously large amount of energy I can see it ionizing the air that it passes through. So the las-shot that you see isn't the bolt coming from the gun, it's actually the leading edge of the air behind the bolt. Same goes for a muzzleflash and report, ionized gas escaping the barrel at high speed.
And I can see it having a muzzle as well because somewhere in a laser weapon there's a final focusing lens or targetting mirror, this would be at the back of the barrel. You'd design it this way not for accuracy like a rifled barrel in a stub or autogun, but simply to protect the last lens or mirror from getting grit or dirt on it from the environment

xibo
03-11-2006, 21:26
i can remember having heared the term 'lasgun bullet' somewhere *dan abnett*

Destecado
03-11-2006, 22:00
Id personally don't think that the Lasgun of 40k is an actual laser weapon...well it doesn't fire just a laser beam. The Lasgun instead apears to be (at least to me) a type of particle beam. It is not the laser beam itself doing the damage, but the high energy discharge carrying ionized paticles. The laser beam itself might be invisible, the coherent pulse seen is the energy discharge and ionized gas traveling down the beam towards the traget.

I'm reminded some what of the PPG (Phased Plaser Gun) from Babylon 5. This was a hand held energy weapon that used ahighly condensed helium storage units and a nuclear battery in the grip as the energy supply for the weapon. Helium is ionized by a laser burst then a strong electrical discharge forces the plasma out of the weapon at high speeds. The ionized helium travels down the laser beam to the target...sound about right for how the lasgun blasts are describe?

Brother Smith
03-11-2006, 23:29
Id personally don't think that the Lasgun of 40k is an actual laser weapon...well it doesn't fire just a laser beam. The Lasgun instead apears to be (at least to me) a type of particle beam. It is not the laser beam itself doing the damage, but the high energy discharge carrying ionized paticles. The laser beam itself might be invisible, the coherent pulse seen is the energy discharge and ionized gas traveling down the beam towards the traget.

I'm reminded some what of the PPG (Phased Plaser Gun) from Babylon 5. This was a hand held energy weapon that used ahighly condensed helium storage units and a nuclear battery in the grip as the energy supply for the weapon. Helium is ionized by a laser burst then a strong electrical discharge forces the plasma out of the weapon at high speeds. The ionized helium travels down the laser beam to the target...sound about right for how the lasgun blasts are describe?

IIRC Lasguns fire intesified light, which when concentrated expands rapildly upon contact with whatever it hits.

Which explains why the air around it is ionised/whatever, and why when the main bulk of it hits it's taget, you get an explosive force. Which is why they are **** at penetration.

Outlaw289
04-11-2006, 03:34
IIRC Lasguns fire intesified light, which when concentrated expands rapildly upon contact with whatever it hits.

Which explains why the air around it is ionised/whatever, and why when the main bulk of it hits it's taget, you get an explosive force. Which is why they are **** at penetration.

Mayhaps the lasguns of 2nd edition just had such a strong blast that it was still better than the concentrated force of an autogun bullet :angel:

As for lasguns, I prefer the invisible beams. As to a rational weapon for Imperial Guard troops, I further prefer auto/stub weaponry. Lasguns are too finnicky from a science end to be good combat weapons.

Lord of ???
04-11-2006, 05:43
I can't remember where (I think it was in the Description of a Lascannon) the shots were refered to as packets. And that the damage was done when the energy packet hit the target.

Don't quote me as i can't remember the exact source (Hopefully someone else does)

Dais
04-11-2006, 07:17
i dont believe its correct to see a lasgun shot just maybe a bright flash before a brighter explosion... but it would make me sad not to see those beams.

Destecado
04-11-2006, 14:13
IIRC Lasguns fire intesified light, which when concentrated expands rapildly upon contact with whatever it hits.

Which explains why the air around it is ionised/whatever, and why when the main bulk of it hits it's taget, you get an explosive force. Which is why they are **** at penetration.

Researching the viability of lasers a little further, it seems that the Blooming effect of the beam can be overcome in several ways. Blooming refers to the tendancy of the laser beam to defocus and to lose energy to the atmosphere. Laser beams begin to cause plasma breakdown in the air at power densities of around a megajoule per square centimeter. The effect is even more pronounced in fog or smoke.

The effects of blooming can be limited by releasing the energy as a short pulse rather than beam. Evacuating the air...inducing a shockwave that evacuates the path between the target and the weapon will also diminish the blooming effect. A high energy discharge could be used to induce this shockwave.

Like a thunderclap following a bolt of lightning, the air rushing back in to fill the evacuated path of the lasgun pulse would create the sound heard when a lasgun is fired.

Voronwe[MQ]
04-11-2006, 20:18
I suppose that 'rifled' in terms of laser weapons refers to the components/mechanisms/effects that prevents Blooming in a lasgun.

As an aside, Destecado, after this weekend of Warhammer tournament madness, I'll update the historical and 'Quaestorial' parts of the Navis Cacluli, as was discussed in the thread. This includes the explanation of the Navis Calculi's 'importance', that with the expanding space and that this, naturally, changes the nature of the warp.

I have not time to write more now, but I'll say it for now. :)

Voronwe

Isambard
05-11-2006, 07:34
Who even says the las weapon operates in the visible spectrum? But then you do get DEW lines.

I voted yes, sometimes style does have to come before substance.

LordXaras
05-11-2006, 15:41
I haven't got anything definite to add to this discussion, but I find it interesting that it would crop up just after this thread on the Conclave:
http://forums.specialist-games.com/inquisitor/forum_b/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8682

Destecado
09-11-2006, 04:16
;1054356']I suppose that 'rifled' in terms of laser weapons refers to the components/mechanisms/effects that prevents Blooming in a lasgun.

Rifling was a bad term for GW to use, since it has a very specific meaning with regards to guns. I really don't think it applies when speaking about lasguns. Where do they even discuss the rifling of the lasgun? It is possible that the meaning of the term has changed over time. That has been known to happen, but with normal "guns" still in use, that does not seem too likely.

One possible way to explain it might be that the rifling being discussed has more to do with the arrangement of the crystals within the barrel. If it was a true laser, you would really need the gun shape ...beyond astethics of course. It could be possible that there are more than just one single crystal within the gun. The might try to intensify the beam or the pulse generated by splitting the beam and then bringing it back together.



;1054356']As an aside, Destecado, after this weekend of Warhammer tournament madness, I'll update the historical and 'Quaestorial' parts of the Navis Cacluli

Great, I look forward to reading it.

Voronwe[MQ]
09-11-2006, 06:51
Rifling was a bad term for GW to use, since it has a very specific meaning with regards to guns. I really don't think it applies when speaking about lasguns. Where do they even discuss the rifling of the lasgun? It is possible that the meaning of the term has changed over time. That has been known to happen, but with normal "guns" still in use, that does not seem too likely.

It is hinted at in third edition Codex: Eldar on the brief Astartes tactical understanding weapons section in the back of the book. It was just my interpretation that the term has been 'loaned' from 'autoguns-esque' weapons but has very little with the actual, original meaning to do. Such things happens.


One possible way to explain it might be that the rifling being discussed has more to do with the arrangement of the crystals within the barrel. If it was a true laser, you would really need the gun shape ...beyond astethics of course. It could be possible that there are more than just one single crystal within the gun. The might try to intensify the beam or the pulse generated by splitting the beam and then bringing it back together.

I am sadly not too schooled on lasers and the workings of crystals in said functions, but that sounds very likely.


Great, I look forward to reading it.

Thanks. I may not find the time required today, and the historical section needs corrections and less 'specifications', but I think the end result will suffice.

Romanus
09-11-2006, 11:36
Just a point when a weapon has rifling, it is refered to as a rifle, for weapons with no rifling the are refered to as guns, e.g. Shotgun, Gun on a battleship, etc. For the use of lasgun then this seems totally reasonable as the term gun has been used and no reference to to rifleing made. On the other hand if the term LasRifle is used then we run into problems.

for the case in point i believe it is possible to have visible light, noise and affect for weapons such as these. If the argument put forward that these weapons are far beyond that currently is accepted then why would it not be possible for the 'shoot' or beam to contain more kinetic energy in the form of more photons being delivered at the the target end. This would also probably require more energy expenditure therfore having an affect on atmospher (at night a bullet does not have to have a phosphorus couting for you to be able to see it do to air friction) Overall i voted yes to this.

Cheers, Rom

Slaaneshi Slave
09-11-2006, 11:55
A shotgun is not a gun, just like a pistol is not a gun, they are firearms. The weapon on a tank is a gun, the weapon on a battleship is a gun.

Kegluneq
09-11-2006, 12:40
Aren't pistols handguns as well? Chambers Online seems fairly sure that any device used to fire bullets or shells from a metal tube is a gun.

Slaaneshi Slave
09-11-2006, 13:02
Never heard of them, but trust me, it takes more than the ability to ignite gunpowder to be classed as a gun.

We have:

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/as90/images/as90_6.jpg
Gun

http://www.millenicom.com/johnbrunskill/images/July29-2000/USS-Intrepid-Landing-Deck-g.jpg
Gun

http://home.mindspring.com/~pdietemann/38Cal%20S&W%20Pistol.jpg
Firearm

http://pic.anhuinews.com/0/01/03/27/1032736_969653.jpg
Firearm

t-tauri
09-11-2006, 16:46
Let's not go into semantics and dictionary definitions where it's not relevant. Let's keep this on topic as regards lasguns please.;)

carl
09-11-2006, 19:29
For refrance everyone, a laser beam travling through atmosphere will ALLWAYS lose some energy to the atmposphere, thus cuasing it to glow. I don't belive theirs a single working laser around that dosen't and i don't belive it's possible to avoid tottaly so any high powered laser beam would be visible.

A 20 Megajoule output for the laser pulse sounds about right for my theroycrafting figures. The impact at target need to be about 50Kj's over an area of less then 1 square inch for it to stand much chance of being useful.

Having the target explode is also pretty resonable under some circumstances, When enough laser energy hits a target quickly enough it can reate a shockwave within the target cuasing it to shatter, (which would look like an explosion).

As for recoil. Thats a SW issue really, a lot of pople copy it with predictible results. The problem is that SW weapons don't actually have Recoil except in the cses of the most powerful man portable weapons. They are also a LOT more powerful than 40K weapons, (their lscannon equivelent can take out Warlord titan level items in a few shots for crying out loud).

As for SW blasters shooting some sort of ionizd bolt, that gets damm arkward if you want to maintain cocistancy and indeed some of the plots with the SW books as most of them would have to be edited or thrown out to get it. In those that do give any kind of details the Turbolaser DOES use Tibbana gas for somthing, but thats all we really know. Whilst the rest of the time they are described as being light based when a description is given of Snubfighter and hand held weaponry. In addition a few plost have had important bits hinge on the fact that they are light based, and the whole Chiss weaponry is ionized bolts and is clearly stated as being diffrent from the blasters/laser cannon of the rest of the galaxy.

Thats not to say Gorge Lucas can't overule things, he has that power, however to do so would effectivly invalidate a massive number of books in the seris, and since they all refrance oneanother this would likliy invalidate every book just about tottaly as a result. Possible for him to do, but a bad idea.

coff
09-11-2006, 19:45
Indeed a laser pointer beam is visible when it passes through smoke or other such media. As one poster correctly observed that is because the photons are traveling in a straight line and you would otherwise not see them but they are interacting with the particles in the smoke. The light refracts and reaches your eye. Laser weapons do not operate in the same prinipal. Current lasers being developed by the US military will be what are known as COIL lasers. You can read all about them here (http://www.popsci.com/popsci/technology/generaltechnology/49769aa138b84010vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html). COIL lasers fire super-heated charged gas. Anyone who know how a halogen lamp works will know that charged gas zipping through the atmosphere is essentialy a halogen light with out the gas. It will glow since the charged particles of gas give off energy in the form of light.

carl
09-11-2006, 19:48
@coff, that isn't a laser though. a laser MUST be ligght based, thats the entire point of Lasers. Laser is actually an anocrym that describes how lasers are created.

Kage2020
10-11-2006, 03:40
That is true, carl, but at the same time moving away from a "laser" often solves many of trhe problems that GW creates for itself.

Kage

operon
10-11-2006, 06:12
COIL lasers. You can read all about them here (http://www.popsci.com/popsci/technology/generaltechnology/49769aa138b84010vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html). COIL lasers fire super-heated charged gas. Anyone who know how a halogen lamp works will know that charged gas zipping through the atmosphere is essentialy a halogen light with out the gas. It will glow since the charged particles of gas give off energy in the form of light.

Err, that's not quite right. The hot charged gas is within the laser body; the reaction causes high-energy photons to be produced in the optical resonator of the laser. These are focused and 'fired'. The gas doesn't leave the laser -- you can't make gas travel in a straight line (unconstrained, and over distance) because of thermodynamics basically; you'd just get a hot ionised fart.

More detailed explanations here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COIL) and here (http://www.st.northropgrumman.com/capabilities/laser/lasertech/chemlasers.html).


@coff, that isn't a laser though. a laser MUST be ligght based, thats the entire point of Lasers. Laser is actually an anocrym that describes how lasers are created.

COILs are still lasers, it was just the explanation above that was wrong. The hot gas is just the source of the laser beam.


That is true, carl, but at the same time moving away from a "laser" often solves many of trhe problems that GW creates for itself.

At the end of the day, the Imperium is renowned for not having the first clue about how its own equipment actually works, so does any of this matter that much? Just because they call them las weapons doesn't mean they are actually fire laser beams. They have less idea than we do. They probably think it's blasts of hot emperor's vengeance.

Andrew.

... fixing science misconceptions since -- whenever...

Voronwe[MQ]
10-11-2006, 06:44
On this relatively low technological level they have a good deal more understanding about the firing mechanisms and workings of lasweapons, naturally, then we have. However, as is the case in Star Wars - as I understand it - the term 'laser' have far more to do with the 'friring look' (beam, bolt, just a torchlike blast against the enemy or watever) of the weapon than the working mechanisms. Of course, this is not to say that it cannot be laser based, but what I want to say is that it is the 'pet-name' given to it by troopers long since dust in their cold graves that have passed over into formal utilisation of the weapon type's names.