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View Full Version : am I a sick freak? [wanting to take heaps of Men-at-arms]



Captain Micha
03-11-2006, 13:39
a sick freak?
I have plans for my poor pooor men at arms. See I plan on fielding MASS amounts of them. and getting lots of trebuchetes. The idea is to use them as range finders for my trebuchet fire. if my trebbies just happen to scatter into my own ranks oh well. Got more men at arms!
I also plan on having some cavalry (of course I am bret aren't I) to come in and finish off what the men at arms might manage to kill off and whatever the treb kills.

Is this as wicked of a plan as I hope it is?

DesertDirge
03-11-2006, 13:52
I'd say it would all depend on terrain and how many points.

I think it would work too. If I had the cash this is sort of how my Bret army would be.

the M@As tarpit the smaller weaker units while your knights team up on the biger stuff.

Nagrael
03-11-2006, 23:15
It really depends on the army your facing as well. M@A are definatly not bad for their point cost. WS 2 will still hit some stuff on 4s and then some on 5s. The fact that they have the peasants duty and all that gear for free is pretty good for their value.

They're really good against armies that you need to slow down - becoming speedbumps and also giving your nights some kind of rank bonus and the chance of outnumbering.


So I say if you feel like painting em then go for it. The trebs you'll probably not find effective all the time but the M@A are definatly A'OK

MarcoPollo
04-11-2006, 04:36
I think two trebuchets is a pretty intimidating force. Especially if you can guess well or atleast have a reputation of guessing well.

I too think that having lots of M@A's is a great idea. I plan on having around 75 painted up. They can be great speed bumps and can really help in a refused flank type set up.

The are pretty crappy stat wise, but their cheapness makes up for it. The only problem is that you need to keep some knights close by or they run for the hills. Hopefully these can be ones with good leadership or Imune to Psych. But ItP means grail knights and that means a rare slot and that means one less trebuchet.

Still, I think that having an effective shooting phase with two treb's will really help in getting the right kind of matchups that your knights can exploit.

125 pts or so for 25 men at arms. This is an excellent price.

Mephistofeles
04-11-2006, 10:40
Sounds like a great idea, how big a force are you planning, i.e. how many men at arms are you going to have?

Any Peasant Bowmen?

Nagrael
04-11-2006, 23:08
I can't speak for the OP but for my army how many M@A I bring is really going to depend on my enemy.

Against armies like wood elves where I can't maneuver very well due to his key units being hidden in forests and able to flank me easily I'll use about as many M@A as he has units then support them with knights. THen add Grail Knights and no PB or Trebs.

Against an army like Dwarves or a shooty Empire list I'll not worry about out shooting him and use fewer M@A as just a screen while the knights make their way up.

Against an army like TK/Elves I'd consider using PB as their toughness and armor saves aren't that great typically and thus I can shoot them and win a shooting phase since PB are so cheap.

Alathir
05-11-2006, 01:40
Sounds like a good idea, the less all knight Bretonnia armies the better. And also, those men-at-arms models are some of the best in the GW range.

Drogmir
05-11-2006, 05:01
Well In theory relying on your peasents is kinda a bad idea. Even though Everyone doesn't want to see Bret Knights anymore the plan is kinda whack.

Couple of lucky mortar shots and your peasent army is fried. Or If someone flanks with calvary and takes your your trebs. Or if someone has an equally insane idea (Skaven) You can end up in a very very long battle.

Mephistofeles
05-11-2006, 09:36
Well In theory relying on your peasents is kinda a bad idea. Even though Everyone doesn't want to see Bret Knights anymore the plan is kinda whack.

Couple of lucky mortar shots and your peasent army is fried. Or If someone flanks with calvary and takes your your trebs. Or if someone has an equally insane idea (Skaven) You can end up in a very very long battle.

If you go by those theories, then all armies with infantry suck... And they don't

Captain Micha
06-11-2006, 23:12
about 2000 points. hehehe. was thinking of having a knight with the virture of empathy.

Slaaneshi Slave
07-11-2006, 09:20
I've always fansied the idea of an all peasant Bretonian army. :D Would be a bit different to play than my Frenzied Chosen Unbrakable Chaos Warriors. :p

ewar
07-11-2006, 10:40
They're fun to paint and to field, but despite what people say they're not competitive. The bowmen, en masse, are great, I field 40 in my 2k army and they always intimidate people - especially if you sit them out of range of gunners/regular bowmen. The trebs are awesome and really let you hammer big block infantry. I love my m@a but if you want to win against tough opposition they just don't cut it, especially as your foot knight isn't as combat heavy as a mounted knight because he has surrendered his virtue so you can field him on foot! He is vital though, otherwise anything scarier than an angry goblin will cause your entire army to run away... believe me, its not funny when it happens! Screaming skulls are basically a peasant army's worst nightmare.

Have fun using them though!

DesertDirge
07-11-2006, 12:46
after reading this thread.. finding the right balance between knights and M@A is the way to go!

Captain Micha
07-11-2006, 12:55
agreed. maybe only 750 pts worth of men at arms instead of a 1000 worth

MarcoPollo
07-11-2006, 22:45
the screaming skull catapult or even Hell cannon can really do some damage to peasents, but they can do that to normal infantry blocks too.

I just think that having a rank worth 25 pts is pretty good and you can easily outnumber your opponents at 5 pts each. You just have to get the right match-ups.

This will require having alot of units in the deployment phase. So keep your archers to 10 each, but have 3 units of them. Keep your characters to a minimum and use knights units to lend leadership instead.

laughingman
07-11-2006, 23:25
yeah a knight in a men a infantr unit is extreemly great since he cant be targeted by shooting anylonger

Goq Gar
08-11-2006, 03:28
I've planned on collecting this army a few rimes, but realised I only have the patience for painting large models. (ergo, I went for lizardmen)

However, this army would be the "conscript Guardsmen" army of fantasy, and by that I mean, remove casualties with a brush and pan, and laugh because they're worthless anyway. This army would be VERY fun to play, especially with some bowmen in it.

Captain Micha
08-11-2006, 10:55
I figure 750-1000 points. 750 men at arms 250 for peasent bowmen would do some serious damage. put 2 trebs down. and then the rest for knights.

Lieutenant Frederic Henry
10-11-2006, 20:13
I've always considered starting a Bretonnian army as a standard Medieval army from the 14th Century.
The list would look something like (Don't have army Book in front of me)
Mounted Duke with magic weapon of some sort
Mounted BSB
Foot Knight Hero
Dispell Caddy Damsel

Big Block of Halberdiers with shields
Big Block of Halberdiers with Shields

2 units of Peasant Bowmen

2 Fair sized Units of KoTR
1 Unit of Knights Errant

Mounted Yeomen
Questing Knights

2 Trebuchets

approximately 2k-2,250 pts

You can soften up the enemy formations with a few rounds of shooting with bowmen and trebuchets.

The two Big units of men at arms will charge large enemy infantry formations, allowing KoTR to get flank charges in the same, or next, turn (thus, outnumbering, static CR +knightly kills). As the men at arms will probably be using hw+sh+la for the 4+ save, casualties shouldn't be a huge deal.

Mounted BSB will bolster whatever big combat isn't going well, either adding attacks, re-roll, leadership, or banner.

Questing Knights (with Duke) will go after 'ard enemy formations in conjunction with the knights errant. Mounted Yeomen will provide a mobile screen, or chase off enemy skirmishers or light missile troops/warmachine crews.

*Obviously, this is not a tournament army. It is just an example of a historically accurate, very balanced force. Probably be fun to play against friends who play their own fluffy, balanced lists. Just think it would look great on the table top. Rather off topic, does anyone wish we had an option for a unit of dismounted knights, similar to Greatswords or something? Maybe with HA, Shields, Morning stars (+1 strength on the first round of combat) at Strength 4 like KoTR? For a 4+ save, strength 5 (for one turn) foot unit?
Cheers

Nagrael
10-11-2006, 20:46
Be warned, however, you have to really really like painting if you plan to get them all together. You can assemble them np but to paint all of those models..it's tough. I tried to paint a skaven army and gave up after a couple months because it was just too much heheh..granted skaven are a little bit smaller then a M@A.

Nkari
11-11-2006, 00:07
Dont take the foot vitrue.. just stick your mounted chars in your units, since they can no longer get picked out by magic or shooting since they are not US 5 or more, heck put a royal pegasus in there.. =)

Lieutenant Frederic Henry
14-11-2006, 18:24
The painting is not a big deal for me. I've already painted 3,000 points of Empire (infantry... no gun line), and 2,000 points of Imperial Guard in my WarHammer career. Only took me eight years, too...
Cheers

Camulos
15-11-2006, 13:26
Well this comes as a bit of a relief. I'm returning to Warhammer after a hiatus of some years. I'd originally intended starting back with a Bretonnian force, but the sheer venom some people were levelling against the Bretonnians put me off and I have gone for High Elves instead (same nobility etc).

May I say I applaud the idea of field a lot of peasantry, as that's how I saw the Brets working for me. Let me know how it goes. I'm particularly interested in seeing how the longbowmen work out (as High Elf archers just don't seem to work as background might indicate).

Lieutenant Frederic Henry
15-11-2006, 19:12
I played a proxy battle (using Empire Soldiers for Men At Arms, and Knightly Orders, as well as the Bretonnians Knights and Archers I still have laying around from the 5th Edition Boxed Game, and some Orc Stone Throwers as Trebuchets) using the Bretonnian army book. I don't have the actual army list in front of me as I'm at work (and my co-workers might find it a bit odd that I be carrying around Army Books and Lists), but the list looked remarkably similar to the one I posted on Page 2.

I played against a friend's Orcs & Goblins. He took a unit of Orc Big'Uns with two choppas, a 10 orc unit of Black Orcs (*armed to da teef), two units of Nigh Gobbos with Fanatics, a pump wagon, two boar chariots, 10 wolf riders (as fast cav), a spear armed Boys unit, a NG shaman, a Black Orc BSB on a Boar, and a Black Orc warboss on a boar. He had around 2,100 points, and I was around 2,200 points.

The battle went relatively well for me, those both sides suffered an inordinate amount of casualties. He got first turn, and advanced his whole force in a relatively disciplined line, with the exception of his Wolf Riders. On turn 1, my Mounted Yeomen (proxied High Elf reavers) charged his Wolf Riders, conveniently moving through the 8 inch arc of a NG unit with 3 fanatics. He sent two of three at them, but only one got close enough, and it killed one of 6 Yeomen, who stoically refused to panic, charged on, and sent his wolf riders packing. Other than that, my infantry and Knightly units advanced in a line. My trebuchets did well; one blasted 4 Black Orcs into oblivion. The other one narrowly missed the Big 'uns. The archers whittled down the spear'orcs.

On turn two he advanced 4 inches with his whole line, hoping to leave me just enough room to fail some charges with my infantry (which did not happen, he was within 8 inches of both units.), and flank charged my Yeomen with a Boar Chariot, who fled screaming (I forgot to bring a musician...).
In my turn, I charged his Blorcs with my M@A, and his Spear Orcs with my other M@A (both of my units opeted for HW+Sh+LA for 4+ saves). I got a flank charge on the Spear orcs with a KoTR unit. The Spear orcs were broken (M@A provided static CR, the Knights provided kills, CR and flank charge bonus), though outdistanced the pursuit. The Blorcs defeated my M@A with kills alone (as they only had one static CR for a standard, and no ranks), wiping out 4 of my front rankers with dual choppa killiness for no losses to themselves. The M@A stayed in combat thanks to a re-roll from the BSB, and being within 12 inches of the Duke and Questing Knights, who was eyeing the flank of the Blorcs for the next turn. The Knights Errant charged the NGobbo's, ran through all three fanatics, got crumped by the balls and chains, and fled screaming with only the command group still alive. The archers and trebuchets provided a total of 12 kills on the other NGobbo regiment. The Yeomen rallied.

In turn three, the Blorc Warboss on a boar charged and challenged my Duke. One Boar Chariot flank charged one of my KoTR. The pump wagon moved into the charge arc of my other KoTR unit, and both units of NGobbos held fast. The Big Uns advanced to attempt to help out their Warboss in the next turn.
The Warboss inflicted two wounds on my Duke, suffering one in return. He lost due to CR (rank, +standard, +1 wound) but held fast with a re-roll from their BSB. The Boar Chariot inflicted one kill on my KoTR, but they held due to my BSB. The Blorcs killed another 2 M@A, for a drawn combat.
In my turn, the Knights Errant rallied, the KoTR charged the pump wagon (destroying it due to stellar rolling), and overrunning into the NGobbos behind, who they killed three of, but tied the combat. The Yeoman flank Charged the Warboss, who killed three of them, but was slain in turn by Questing Knights and my Duke. The M@A finally inflicted a kill on the Blorcs, suffered two in return, and the combat remained drawn (both sides had musicians). The second unit of M@A advanced on the Spear Orcs, and the archers and trebuchets concentrated fire on it. They killed 7, with one trebuchet and the archers hitting. The other trebuchets scattered badly, and hit my M@A, who held firm, suffering three casualties.

Turn 4, spear orcs charged the M@A, killing none, and suffering no casualties. The Big 'Uns charged the Questing Knights, killing one, and taking 4 casualties back for their troubles. They held. The NG killed one KoTR for two casualties in return, and held again (dratted BSB!). The Blorcs killed another M@A, and lost another one. The Blorcs were now defeated by one (no ranks, +1 standard, +1 wound vs. +1 rank, +1 standard, +1 wound) and finally turned and fled, being run down by their opponents.
In my turn, the unengaged unit of NG were destroyed by the trebuchets and archers. The Big'uns were defeated and run down by the Questing Knighst and Duke. The other Ngobbos defeated my KoTR, and ran them down. The Boar chariot was destroyed by the other KoTR. The Spear Orcs defeated the M@A, and ran them down, pursuing into my BSB. The Knights Errant charged the other Boar Chariot but couldn't harm it.

Turn 5, the Blorc BSB charged and challenged my Duke (who only had one wound left), but was killed after he failed to inflict a wound on the nobleman.
The Boar chariot crew killed the musician in my Knights Errant, but the Champion inflicted a wound in return, and the Knights Errant won by one point of CR (+1 for a wound, +standard) and ran down the Chariot. The Spear orcs couldn't hurt my BSB, but he lost due to static CR and fled out of reach of his assailants. By now he had nothing left but the spear orcs and one unit of Night Gobbinses with a shaman. I had a unit of M@A (much depleted) with foot hero (who thus far had yet to inflict a wound...), two Knights errant, 4 questing Knights, my Duke, my damsel, my BSB, two trebuchets, 2 Yeomen, 4 Knights of the Realm, and twenty archers.

In my turn, both trebuchets misfired, with one destroying itself, and the other being unable to fire for two turns (effectively out of commission, in a six turn battle). The archers killed two NGobbos between them. The Spear orcs were charged in one flank by the Questing Knights and Duke, and in the other by the two Knights errant. They were defeated, inflicted no casualties in return, and fled only to be rundown. Their fleeing and destruction carried them past the Night Gobbos, who panicked and fled. The Battle was over, but it was a bloody one.

Essentially, the combined arms approach worked for me in this battle. The M@Arms were able to hold their own for a few turns, allowing the Knightly units to put the hurt on many of the smaller, or unsupported, Orc Units. The Battle Standard Bearers on both sides prevented numerous failed Leadership tests, allowing many units to slug it out for much longer than is usual. My Duke was a monster, defeating two Black Orc characters in challenges. My Foot hero was teh suck, failing to kill a single Orc the entire game! My dispell caddy damsel did her job, and prevented a few spells when it was crucial (good thing my opponent didn't go magic heavy either), while failing to get any through herself. As expected, the Knights either held up or defeated anything they were thrown against, trusting to good armor and their leadership to see them through when things got ugly (for the most part... I can't believe Knights of the Realm lost to a unit of NGobbo spearmen and were run down!). But the real heros were the missile units, constantly whittling down the large orc units to ensure that my Knights and Footmen were going up against much softer units than were originally deployed.
All in all, I have decided that I am going to actually collect this army (with the REAL models...), if only for a display piece, and for the fact that is fun to play against other balanced armies. It is by no way a tournament army though, and I would hate to see it against a gunline, SAD, or some army with really high leadership like chaos or High elves, though I don't doubt it would be competitive. I'm taking the proxy army to the hobby store near my house next weekend to try it out. I'll let you all know how it goes against an army that is not necessarily as balanced as my buddy's orcs, and I'll try to take some pictures so the Battle report isn't as confusing.
Cheers.