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Fhoen
07-11-2006, 23:05
okay i need some help overhere , i have to make a 1.5k points list with HE's
i only have 10silver helms availble 5 reavers 2 bolt throwers, 30 spearmen 30archers 20 swordmasters 10 white lions 1 chariot and 1 gr eagle
(so u guys would know a bit what my options are....)
like some help plz , a nice all rounder (if possible) would be great

Wodan.BR
07-11-2006, 23:23
Do you have any characters? If so, are they fighting characters or mages?

Wodan.BR
07-11-2006, 23:29
off the bat, you could get
spearmen (20) full command, war banner
2x Silverhelms (5) full kit
2 RBT's
archers (10)
Swordmasters (12)
reavers (5)
White lions (10)
great eagle.
This should get around 1200, not counting any characters... has a big spears unit with lots of support. I guess it lacks another strong unit, but the other small units, together could pack some punch.

Omegakai
08-11-2006, 00:23
Unnamed1500 Pts - High Elves Army

5 Silver Helms @ 173 Pts
Barding; Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician

1 Captain @ [14] Pts

6 Elf Steed @ [0] Pts

18 First SpearElves @ 259 Pts
Spear; Light Armour; Shield; Standard Bearer; Musician
War Banner [20]

1 Captain @ [12] Pts

10 Archers @ 126 Pts
Longbow; Musician

10 Archers @ 120 Pts
Longbow

2 Repeater Bolt Thrower @ 200 Pts

4 Crew @ [0] Pts
Light Armour

19 Swordmasters @ 315 Pts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Standard; Musician

1 Bladelord @ [37] Pts
Blessed Tome [25]

1 Mage @ 180 Pts
Magic Level 2
Power Stone [20]
Power Stone [20]
Silver Wand [10]

1 Commander @ 124 Pts
Great Weapon; Great Weapon; Heavy Armour
Pure of Heart [0]
Talisman of Protection [10]
Swordmaster [40]

Casting Pool: 4

Dispel Pool: 3

Models in Army: 73


Total Army Cost: 1497

EndlessBug
08-11-2006, 01:39
go for an extra archer over that talisman personally, and change the mage stuff to +1 PD thing and seer (chose the re-roll shooting and fury of Khaine).

that's just personal preference though.

Omegakai
08-11-2006, 01:51
he hasnt said what hes plans to be fighting agiasnt. so the list i have made to me would be a generic army.

Neknoh
08-11-2006, 06:58
Omegakai, could you please un-armybuilder your lists in the future when posting, those lists screws with peoples eyes and understanding of the list, other than that, looks rather solid.

I have always liked the potential that there is in Spearmen, especially now in 7th, 28 spearmen in one unit would be able to loose 7 spearmen and still dish out 22 attacks (if with Champion)

Fhoen
08-11-2006, 07:31
not worried about characters... cus i have enoufg of them , but i was wondering if i bring 1mage , why shouldn't i bring 2... cus 1 imho should bring ds's instead of going aggressive :) ...
anyways i like the idea of 2 units of Sh's thx for posting already :)

Fhoen
08-11-2006, 17:55
bump
u
m
p

Omegakai
09-11-2006, 00:37
Here goes my input
You want to take two mages? Awesome... how ever you need to have a plan to use them, mages in small games can some times be a point sink. If you’re going to take the two mages I suggest building your army around it. For example taking a special or rare unit and upgrading them to have the d3 power dice + 1. How ever having played high elves for many years the most effective lists are those that have large amounts of shooting (and I'm not talking about repeater blot throwers) the above list is a generic tournament list I would take to any game, its highly versatile and can easily fit into any situation provided.

If you would like more specific advice then ill be happy to go into detail, how ever in doing so I need the following information.

What armies do you plan on coming up against?
Strictly pitched battles or are you playing a mix of scenarios?
What type of effect are you really wanting to deliver?
In your personal experience what are the biggest problem you regularly run into?

Here to help
Omega.

Fhoen
09-11-2006, 10:29
well first of all , my opponents are orcs&gobos , chaos (mark of khorne) , Tomb kings , dwarfs (slayer list) and tomb kings

second , i think they are mostly pitched battles , with a rarity of something else
third , i just don't wanna end as the first player who get's knocked out :P
and the most irritating thing is Dispell scrolls and getting outflanked as i mostly play with footmen... cus i need to l2play with cavalry but never have the intention to do so... nyways i'll try ;)

thx for helping out so far already :angel:

Omegakai
09-11-2006, 22:13
Prepare for a long read.

Strengths of Your army VS Strengths of your opponent’s
Chaos
Chaos is played with veritable ease. A hand full of hard hitting units, this army is some times referred to as a sledge hammer army because that’s the kind of style it is played in. Facing of against a Khrone army can be intimidating, in 99% of all combat you going to have a disadvantage, there are very few units you can field that will go toe to toe with chosen warriors or knights or even just Khrone warriors, do the key here is to avoid combat until you’re sure you have the an over whelming advantage.
Your army requires actual skill to play, and is some times referred to as a scalpel army, weak an ineffective in the hands of a novice, but deadly and dominating in the hands of an expert.
The strengths in your army vs. a Khrone army are movement and shooting, and possibly magic.
Any unit of chaos warrior’s mortals, knights, chariots or daemons Khrone marked are subject to frenzy. Frenzy is a frightful thing it makes units immune to physiology and in combat it adds many extra attacks, but the down side to it is that if there is a unit in charge range they MUST declare a charge and must over ride. (If there are several they the right to pick) So against a heavily marked Khrone army exploiting the movement phase while shooting, or blasting there units with magic and positioning into place for flank charges is the best strategy I can suggest. For example a unit of 5 Reavers, traded for normal bows and only a musician will be awesome in helping you here. They can poison them to be inside of a charge range of several Khrone units but off to one side, taking care that no other friendly units are in range. Then when they are charged (because they have to be due to frenzy) you can call a feel reaction. , and because they are fast cavalry
When they rally at the start of your next turn (don’t forget + 1 from the musician when rallying) they are free to move as normal so you just rinse and repeat the same step (assuming you don’t run out of table area). If you play it correctly you should be able to lead several of his expensive units around the table in never ending circles with one unit, while the rest of your army deals with what’s left over. Early I made a comment about your army being a scalpel, use it to cut up his army in to little manageable pieces.
Units and uses
10 Archers + Musician 1-2 units.
In most cases light shooting form these units will be ineffective against chariots, warriors or units of knights. How ever they are excellent against fast cav, lesser daemons, and anything with no or little armor saves. (Giants/ beast herds / Spawns of chaos) then if the situation gets tricky they can be reformed into 2 ranks ready to flank units.
5 Reavers Trade for bows + musician 1 unit
I have explained above how they can be used. They are also great for the weapon fire and can be used like the archers, don’t for get they have a 360 degree arc of fire and shoot thru them self’s.
15 Sword masters or white lions with full commands. 1-2 Units
Best used in small numbers and in conjunction with either Silver helms or spearmen. Can go toe to toe with warriors or chosen warriors depending on the situation, but will get romped if charged.
5-10 Silver helms full commands and full equipment options 1-2 units.
Very versatile unit, meant to be used for flanking. Sending these guys in alone and charging the front of a unit is suicide. They should either flank a unit or charge in when that same unit is already being flanked. Again these can be used to force charges and kite units around, all thou they don’t get the free movement when rallied.
20-25 Spearmen + full command + Fist among equals + war banner
Pretty solid unit will generally always have a starting combat bonus of 6. Mainly used for the bonus they will add to combat and doesn’t really have any killing power.
Great eagle 0-1
Main use for this unit is to get it behind the enemy lies and use it to slow there marching, (if that rule still exists I'm a little rusty) or to charge units or catch units that are fleeing. Can be used to take out charters soloing about on 1 wound also.



Repeater blots throwers 0-2
What can I say, awesome unit. Very effective at thinning out rank and file units with its multi volley or picking of single multi wound models. Powerful unit, but easy to take out. So watch for furries or fast cav.

Heroes
2 mages vs 1 mage and a hero as the bsb… it’s about the same. Looking at your opponent’s list id more likely field 2 mages. With items that bulk up there spells casting. Add extra spells and don’t over look power stones.
Banners.
I take the war banner. And if your taking sword masters id take the banner of sorcery.

Also if you take a unit of sword masters upgrade to a blade lord and equip him with the blessed totem for sure is the best item for games under 2000

Omegakai
09-11-2006, 22:30
Dwarfs (slayer slit)

I picture this list being played the same as a Khrone one. How ever the key here is to inflict mass about of damage viva shooting and magic. Flanking units of slayers isn’t really going to help as much, they won’t run away. The real problem is that you risk tying your army up in combat, allowing him to out maneuver you. I can’t really suggest anything new when fighting a slayer list. Thou if your fighting a standard dwarf army list then I can certainly offer buckets of advice.


Tomb kings.
This army heavily relies on magic. More so then any other army. They will use it to either maneuver for flanking or use it to shoot your army to death or use it to regenerate and fight.
Id take time to read his book and work out his casting order and his items.
Normal tactics for totem kings is to blast you with shooting then when your in range tie you up and out maneuver you, then flank you viva the spell casting phase. Key to his army is his characters, take them out, and don’t be afraid of a casket. Also beware his tomb scorpions shoot them to death and avoid them with your heroes. Beware the 360 degree charging tomb guard.


Orcs and goblins are difficult to pin. There is so much variation in the lists alone.
If decide that rather then posts 8 pages of tactical and unit layouts instead pm me, with the general make up of your friends lists. And ill make my suggestions per army. Rather then a 20 page theory craft thread.


General Stratagems.
It’s very important to note that generally the most important phases of the game are actually the deployment phase and the movement phase. Every other phase is indicative of how units where deployed or where a unit has moved to. My personal experience is that positioning is the key to playing any high elf army.

Always try and pick apart your enemy, unlike your opponents your army can be spread out, take advantage of terrain and avoid combat where you can.
Remember if an enemy combat heavy unit worth 4 5 or 600 never gets to combat, then that’s pretty much taking them out of the game.

Identify units of threat.
As you stated that you often get out flanked, its best that you look at what out flanks you, when you deploy try to protect your flanks by placing units to counter there’s. Normal flanking forces will consist of Calvary or fast moving units. If its fast can either try to shoot or blast them with magic, if its heavy try to avoid it, move it around, or try and tie them up in some way block of spear men for example, failing that blast them down with shooting if possible.

Magic.
This is the versatility of you list. Look at the army you’re facing off against and pick a lore the best suits the situation. Fighting an army with high magic resistance? Then pick lore’s where you buff your own units rather then do damage.

Fhoen
10-11-2006, 09:51
okay thx alot for the help on the tactica :)
btw is it worth taking the 2bound spells (eg ring of fury) with me
as it can boast my magic loads i think

Gimp
10-11-2006, 12:41
Here is a small army I just cooked up on army builder.

Cammander + Elven Steed + Ithilmar Barding + Heavy Armour + Enchanted Shield + Sword of Might + Pure of Heart
=116

Cammander + Swordmaster Honour + Heavy Armour
=144

Mage + Magic Level 2 Upgrade + 2 Dispel Scrolls
=170

15 Spearmen + Champion + Standard Bearer + Musician
=195

15 Spearmen + Champion + Standard Bearer + Musician
=195

10 Archers
=120

6 Silver Helms + Heavy Amour + Shields + Champion + Standard Bearer + Musician + Banner of Ellyrion
=188

13 Sword Masters + Champion + Standard Bearer + Musician
=199

2 Repeater Bolt Throwers
=200

=1497

The Shooty elements shoot at the enemy while the mage dispels enemy magic. The commander on the steed goes with the silver helms and outflank the enemy even through terrain. The other commander goes in the sword masters (which are 7 men wide with the rest at the back) suppourted by the 2 Spearmen units (which are 5 wide and 3 deep). Theese regiments then defend and advance when the time calls for it.

By the way I dont actually play High Elves so I really dont know what I am talking about I am just really bored.:eyebrows:

Fhoen
10-11-2006, 13:59
tbh i thought something like that cus this was a really not magical army :P most list i see have 2 mages or offensive mages :D
thx anyways , cus the idea isn't that bad :)

Gimp
10-11-2006, 14:50
Thanks I really like the idea of the Silver Helms and the Commander galloping through a forest at top speed with that cool banner. I play Dark Elves which are simular to High Elves except High Elves have cooler stuff.

Fhoen
10-11-2006, 14:59
but i ask myself why making a unit of silverhelms of 6 +1 ... useless imho :) make it 9 and drop something else?

Gimp
10-11-2006, 15:22
Old habbit. I always find that Dark elf cold one knights and dark riders do best in units of 6 with a character in them. But ha what ever you want after all I have never played with High Elves. But making them 8 big would make them more survivable and a far more better flanking unit.

Omegakai
11-11-2006, 11:00
Unn
1 Mage Level 2
Jewel of the Dusk
Ring of Corin

1 Mage
Level 2
Ring of Fury
Power Stone

10 Archers+ Musician

10 Archers+ Musician

10 Archers+ Musician

5 Ellyrian Reavers
Bow (swap); Light Armour; Musician

18 Swordmasters
Standard; Musician
Banner of Sorcery
Bladelord with the Blessed Tome

2 Repeater Bolt Thrower

1 Tiranoc Chariot

or somthing like this.
mass amounts of magic. and shooting. and a few small units to tie them up, while i think this list will do well vs some generic armies. agiasnt the khorne and kemeri lists i feel this will fall over.

Fhoen
13-11-2006, 12:53
well i had to create an army list for last friday, and my list was something like this :
1mage lvl 2 : seer jewel of the dusk
1mage lvl 2 : seer with another magic item i always forget the name of
1mage lvl 2 : mount + ring of fury

10 archers
25 spearmen
10 swordmasters (chamipon+ standard bearer) champ had +1ld tome
+banner of sorcery
10silver helms (FaE) Banner of ellyrion
2GA's

something for about 1500points

the battle was against TK's and the first2 turns i pwnd him pure magic
i had 3 flames of the phoenix on 1 unit (wich was obliterated in turn 2)
and then i screwed up to go toe to toe with my horsemen so i couldn't target his 2nd biggest unit in the game...
nyways something like this in a 1500points army is devastating when ur opponent only has 1 scroll and 4 dispell dice :D
still he won with a massacre but if i just moved around and blasted him for the rest of the battle it would have been otherwise, lesson learned HE's are pussy's in combat but masters in magic

Omegakai
13-11-2006, 18:59
they arent that bad in combat. just have to pick and choose the combats that suit you. :d

Fhoen
13-11-2006, 19:25
hehe problem with ud they don't run :P they crumble :)... so high elves suck vs undead in combat or they should all crumble ...

Omegakai
13-11-2006, 22:27
undead (except ubshati and tomb guard) allso suck in combat. they win because u allow them to . if u endage on flanks and have over whelming combat res then they will wither away pretty fast.
check your pm's btw .