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Carlos
08-11-2006, 16:02
At the minute there seems to be a never ending torrent of threads focussing on the new Harlequins, their uses, controersy and other such stuff and how they compare to Banshees and Scorps. But what about the now usable 10-man Warlock squad?

250pts buys you 20A that wound anything on a 2+ and make mincemeat of tanks. They are more survivable due to a 4+ inv save too and obvoiusly you have the option of psychic powers. 10x Destructors will fry any nid horde and enhance brings them in line with the I5 aspects.

As there is no rule that states they have to be with a Farseer and it will stay that way until the FAQ (unless GW planned it that way) shove an Autarch with them for the power weapon and you have a very nasty unit, especially if you go the whole hog and put your seer with them as well and fortune them all. Ouch.

Where is this going? Well, 10 tooled up harlies cost 220pts without any characters and its 30pts more for the warlocks who are just as fast, hit harder (depending) and have a better save.

carl
08-11-2006, 16:11
Warlocks MUST have powers though. You can't not give them a power, that adds a minimum of another 50pt's on. in reality most people would go 7 destructor and one each of the remainder. That adds another 105pts to their cost.

Str10_hurts
08-11-2006, 16:22
I thought i read it was optional...(do not have the codex with me)

Icarus
08-11-2006, 16:26
"All Warlocks may buy one Warlock psychic power..."

Its totally optional.

I think the large Warlock squad is a pretty good option and one I'm keen to try out with my Ulthwe-themed army. It lacks the ability to punch through armour that Banshees and Harlequins have, but the ability to wound anything on 2's and with a Fortuned 4++ they are pretty resilient. Good for taking on big gribblies, as well as being able to take a charge from all but the hardest CC opponenets and stay standing. Like all Eldar units they will need support but they have alot of potential.

I'm keen to run a large squad of Warlocks with a Farseer as a team with an Avatar and Wraithlord. The psykers keep the Wraithlord functioning, the Avatar keeps everybody Fearless, and when this all hits the enemy together it will be brutal! its also about the least fragile that Eldar are going to get!

Killgore
08-11-2006, 16:39
Its definatly a fun option for larger games and for Ulthwe players with lots of Warlock models lol

I'd be interested in giving it a whirl one day, my Vanilla army is Ulthwe painted after all

Warjammer
08-11-2006, 16:44
Not to mention they are still effective against tanks.

(But what will happen to all those Farseers that were aquired for Ulthwe in 3rd edition?:D )

ashc
08-11-2006, 16:48
(But what will happen to all those Farseers that were aquired for Ulthwe in 3rd edition?:D )

They become incredibly pompous looking warlocks of course! ;)

Ash

Nehcrum
08-11-2006, 20:31
I'm keen to run a large squad of Warlocks with a Farseer as a team with an Avatar and Wraithlord. The psykers keep the Wraithlord functioning, the Avatar keeps everybody Fearless, and when this all hits the enemy together it will be brutal! its also about the least fragile that Eldar are going to get!
Heh, I'm gonna run Eldrad (fully tooled out Farseer with all powers, for the same price as a Farseer with that gear, but also a bunch of goodie "free stuff" included) with a bodyguard of Wraithguards.

The ultimate Farseer Eldrad, together with T6 3+ fearless wraithguards. This is of course made tougher by a warlock with Conceal for a 5+ cover save and everything is of course rerollable due to Fortune.
Just keep Eldrad covered by the Wraithguard so they can't get many attacks at him in CC (he himself hits hard, wounds on 2+ and ignores armour saves and at I5 and has a 3+ invulnerable, but why take chances) and the entire unit is pretty much as tough as it is possible...

Vehicles are just plain dead. Wraithcannons kill them, and if they survive, both Eldrad and the Warlock has a witchblade each to nail it in assault.
Heavy elite units will just die to the wraithcannons and horde units will have a hard time against the high T and re-rollable saves.

Reflex
08-11-2006, 21:41
As there is no rule that states they have to be with a Farseer and it will stay that way until the FAQ (unless GW planned it that way) shove an Autarch with them for the power weapon and you have a very nasty unit, especially if you go the whole hog and put your seer with them as well and fortune them all. Ouch.




hate to burst your bubble but on the page under the farseer entry it dose state that: "for every Farseer you have, you may include 1 warlock squad." so therefore no farseer, no warlock squad. so you have to have one to have the other. so therefore the warlocks do accompany the farseer as they act as a single HQ unit.

its another unclear rule by GW, but it was like that last edition IICR.

A neutral shade of black.
08-11-2006, 22:00
hate to burst your bubble but on the page under the farseer entry it dose state that: "for every Farseer you have, you may include 1 warlock squad." so therefore no farseer, no warlock squad. so you have to have one to have the other.

That isn't what he was saying. By RAW, the warlocks are not a bodyguard/retinue but an independat squad on the table, of which you may only buy one per farseer you purchase. This is getting a farseer and an autarch and getting the autarch to join the unit of warlocks.

Trinary
08-11-2006, 23:19
GW is already posting lists that take advantage of fielding warlocks in a seperate squad from the farseer that they were purchaced with... If they are going to change this in a FAQ then someone screwed up big time, and when they do that GW tends to try to brush it under the rug until it becomes an undeniable trend.

Any reason to force someone to field them as a single unit is based on the implication of tradition, that generally HQs are not divisable... But the linguistic logic is quite clear (if unexpected) they are two seperate units...

Icarus
08-11-2006, 23:26
Indeed. I severely doubt any kind of screw-up, it seems much more likely that this rather good idea was the plan all along, and in a couple of months time no-one will even question it. People just have to get used to the fact that the New eldar work differently (to my mind for the better!).

Reflex
08-11-2006, 23:55
to me its stupid, because really the warlocks are a body guard, and i will always argue that they and the farseer should be a single unit. maybe its because i am an old school eldar player or maybe because i think its fair.

i think they will come to see that it is a mistake but untill then i guess do what you want really, its funny, no matter how much they worked on this codex there have been at least 10 faults within the rules already.

carl
08-11-2006, 23:59
@reflex: the problem is they go to some lengths to describe them as being the same HQ choice, yet they never mention that they are a retinue. I agree they sghould be. however the intent is clear IMO, they don't want them to be.

Cathedral
09-11-2006, 00:00
to me its stupid, because really the warlocks are a body guard, and i will always argue that they and the farseer should be a single unit. maybe its because i am an old school eldar player or maybe because i think its fair.




If you were really old school, you would hearken back to the good old days when warlocks were independent characters.

But then, I'm old and crotchety for 2nd ed.

giodude
09-11-2006, 00:03
Hi everyone, first post!

The way I read it you can have them separate. with a fortune farseer and avatar nearby they will be as tough as the seer council of old!

By the way, if you are complaining about extra farseers, think about my 15 exarchs (5 howling banshee, 3 fire dragon, 3 scopian, 4 dire avenger) Court of the young king?

I tried the 5 man destructor enhance unit plus farseer with eldrtich storm and fortune in a falcon under old codex and it is awesome. Cant wait to try it out with doom and a possible 5 more warlocks in a wave serpent!!!

sodapopinski
09-11-2006, 00:38
Im relatively new to 40k so sorry if this question is stupid :angel:

Why exactly is the seer council worse in the new codex? from what you guys wrote it seems as if it is as good as it was (fortune them and they whitstand almost anything thrown at them for example), but i constantly hear they are not as good as they used to be so i want to know why people are saying that

Z-chan
09-11-2006, 00:42
No augment... :(

Reflex
09-11-2006, 01:30
Greetings

The farseer and warlock squad, whilst they are a single HQ choice, there is nothing that states that they are a single unit on the field.

cheers


Hobby Service Centre


thats what was intended then, so i was wrong, i am cool with that, get down with the clown..

so yes you can take warlocks, but you have to have the farseer, but they can operate inderpendently on the battle field. wierd i rekon :eyebrows:

Nehcrum
09-11-2006, 01:33
Im relatively new to 40k so sorry if this question is stupid :angel:

Why exactly is the seer council worse in the new codex? from what you guys wrote it seems as if it is as good as it was (fortune them and they whitstand almost anything thrown at them for example), but i constantly hear they are not as good as they used to be so i want to know why people are saying that
The seer council of old was broken.
First, it's basic size was 2 Farseers and 3 Warlocks. The Farseers were NOT independant characters, which made them impossible to target in CC.
The Warlocks were a mere 11 points a pop, without any gear, not even shuripistol and CCW. They did however still have the 4+ invulnerable save.

So what people did was get a small "core" of a couple Farseers with Fortune and something else, Warlocks with Augment (doubled Farseers psychic power range), enhance and embolden. That made a tough unit. A couple of them got witchblades and pistols (Farseers generally, and maybe the Warlocks with powers). Then you took a heap of "boxing warlocks". Naked warlocks for 11 points with no gear at all, just for ablative 4+ re-rollable invulnerable save.

Made the seer council very very tough since those 11 point warlocks were easily expendable.
There was also no max limit on how big the council could be, so there were some examples of people taking 2 minimum guardian squads with starcannons, then a giant seer council of doom, that was nearly impossible to get below 50% and completely annihilated everything in CC.

Locke
09-11-2006, 02:57
The seer council of old was broken.
First, it's basic size was 2 Farseers and 3 Warlocks. The Farseers were NOT independant characters, which made them impossible to target in CC.
The Warlocks were a mere 11 points a pop, without any gear, not even shuripistol and CCW. They did however still have the 4+ invulnerable save.

So what people did was get a small "core" of a couple Farseers with Fortune and something else, Warlocks with Augment (doubled Farseers psychic power range), enhance and embolden. That made a tough unit. A couple of them got witchblades and pistols (Farseers generally, and maybe the Warlocks with powers). Then you took a heap of "boxing warlocks". Naked warlocks for 11 points with no gear at all, just for ablative 4+ re-rollable invulnerable save.

Made the seer council very very tough since those 11 point warlocks were easily expendable.
There was also no max limit on how big the council could be, so there were some examples of people taking 2 minimum guardian squads with starcannons, then a giant seer council of doom, that was nearly impossible to get below 50% and completely annihilated everything in CC.

ahhh the good ol' days... kinda makes me miss the gravaton gun...

RedSarge
09-11-2006, 03:26
I'd hate to be jerk but it has to be done.
Grey Knights w/Psycannon Bolts could/would make short work of this dreaded 10 man Warlock squad.

A 10 Man GK squad could move 6" and fire 20 No Inv.Sv Storm Bolter shots at 30", each shooting phase. (at BS-4)
So effectively the Warlock/Farseers awesome saves now become nothing saves. Which spells death to the those twisting, evil Witches. :)

If you're not playing Deamonhunters? Your in for a long (results may vary) fight with the Eldar, so load up on template weapons and let loose.

Montford981
09-11-2006, 03:45
I'd hate to be jerk but it has to be done.
Grey Knights w/Psycannon Bolts could/would make short work of this dreaded 10 man Warlock squad.

A 10 Man GK squad could move 6" and fire 20 No Inv.Sv Storm Bolter shots at 30", each shooting phase. (at BS-4)
So effectively the Warlock/Farseers awesome saves now become nothing saves. Which spells death to the those twisting, evil Witches. :)

If you're not playing Deamonhunters? Your in for a long (results may vary) fight with the Eldar, so load up on template weapons and let loose.

My Sisters of Battle have Faith ( usually at least 9 points of it; often 11 or more!) that the Emperor will see them through any battle with the Eldar. ;)

-981

cailus
09-11-2006, 03:49
Regarding splitting Farseers and Warlocks into two separate units I think it has to do with Dawn Of War where there is a separate Warlock unit. I think GW are trying to tie in the two a bit more.

Which might give us a hint as to how the noew Ork vehicles will look.

(Sorry Panzees but I had to include some sort of mention of the best Army in the entire 40K universe!)

Altashheth
09-11-2006, 08:13
I'd hate to be jerk but it has to be done.
Grey Knights w/Psycannon Bolts could/would make short work of this dreaded 10 man Warlock squad.

A 10 Man GK squad could move 6" and fire 20 No Inv.Sv Storm Bolter shots at 30", each shooting phase. (at BS-4)
So effectively the Warlock/Farseers awesome saves now become nothing saves. Which spells death to the those twisting, evil Witches. :)

If you're not playing Deamonhunters? Your in for a long (results may vary) fight with the Eldar, so load up on template weapons and let loose.

Just buy a single warlock conceal for this eventuality, rerollable 4+ inv saves most of the time, rerollable 5+ coversaves against the psycannons.

carl
09-11-2006, 12:33
Also as far as i know you cannot give a whole GK squad those bolts, only the justicar.

elvinltl
09-11-2006, 12:46
I think what GW want in a Ulthwe army is 1 "Seer Counsil" consisting of Farseer and Warlock Bodyguards and a few Storm Guardian Squads with Warlock attached supported by Wraithlords,WraithGuards and other vehicles.

It's actually a novelty just seeing Guardians, Farseers, Warlocks and vehicles fighting.
Eliminates all the fluffy Scorpions,Dragons,Reapers,Banshees,Hawks,Spiders,S hining. Sometimes it amuses me, i suppose one day they may even adopt Crouching Tiger hidden Dragon. I mean dragon is already out. :/

Cypher
09-11-2006, 12:48
Just buy a single warlock conceal for this eventuality, rerollable 4+ inv saves most of the time, rerollable 5+ coversaves against the psycannons.

Any just hope you dont come up against the one player out there who fields Incinerators in their GK squads. :eek:

Icarus
09-11-2006, 13:23
Well you can't have a squad thats immune to everything!

If you are running a squad of Warlocks and are facing Daemonhunters with Psycannons and Incinerators, my suggestion would be to focus as much firepower as possible on those squads to take out the threat. Daemonhunters are generally quite short-ranged, being either combat or rapid fire focused, so keep the Warlocks back as counter-assault unit.

Psychopomp
09-11-2006, 13:44
Just to throw this into the Warlocks buying powers arguement - While the army list entry on page 60 uses the term "may buy," the Warlock rules description on page 27 uses the term "must buy" under the heading Warlock Powers.

Son-Of-Sparda
09-11-2006, 13:49
Just to throw this into the Warlocks buying powers arguement - While the army list entry on page 60 uses the term "may buy," the Warlock rules description on page 27 uses the term "must buy" under the heading Warlock Powers.

That would be so the Warlocks don't pinch the Psychic Powers in the Farseer list- we couldn't have that could we!?

Icarus
09-11-2006, 15:40
I don't know why our codexes are saying different things (different language??) but in my codex on p.27 it still says "may be given a single Warlock power".

Carlos
09-11-2006, 16:55
10 GK's can pump out 8 No inv save shots: 3x Psycannons and one justicar with psycannon bolts. And that would still slice through about half the squad at 3+ to hit and 2/3+ to w.

However, as not unit would be on its own expect my harlequins/2x Fire Prisms to have demolished the GK's by the time this happens.

Brushmonkey
09-11-2006, 19:02
Just to throw this into the Warlocks buying powers arguement - While the army list entry on page 60 uses the term "may buy," the Warlock rules description on page 27 uses the term "must buy" under the heading Warlock Powers.

My Codex says 'may' on both pages. I'm using the UK version.

A neutral shade of black.
09-11-2006, 19:29
My Codex says 'may' on both pages. I'm using the UK version.

Ditto. (mandatorywordsforextralength)

Nehcrum
09-11-2006, 20:36
Any just hope you dont come up against the one player out there who fields Incinerators in their GK squads. :eek:
That's what Mind War is for....

TheJrade
10-11-2006, 00:37
My Farseer rides a bike with the Spears and Autarch, but I am thinking about packing a Warlock squad in a Wave Serpent to back them up against enemy units with power weapons. (who make a real mess of Spears)

An unrelated question, do you guys think an IC Warlock with W2 and A2 with access to up to two Warlock powers would be overpowered?