View Full Version : TK VS Empire

08-11-2006, 16:06
Hello lads !

I have 1500pts match tomorrow against the empire since i never faced them b4 I realy dont know what to expect :confused:
Should i take chariots ? should i go heavy on skeleton blocks ? ushabtis maybe ?
WHAT ?? :cries:

08-11-2006, 20:57
empire is a sucky opponant for tk :(
lotsa shooting and strong cafalry.
I think that you would need lotsa chariots, or go full on shooting with big untis ( of 30) skeleton archer blocks and make em shoto twice.
empire is only t 3 :)

08-11-2006, 22:26
Chariot might be a bad idea, his cannons (he probably has one atleast) would probably kill one a turn. I would have big blocks on infantry, and a good amount of archers. The archers can shoot down his handgunners and other troops. Also, the Screaming skull catapult is a must!

08-11-2006, 23:08
As an Empire Player who regularly plays TK,

The Trouble with player TK<2000 is you can't get a High priest, which is sucky.
I'd Recommend 2 priests, one with 'Staff of Ravaging' and most likely a casket (even if you have to proxy).
If you can squeeze in undying legion somewhere(icon bearer) that would be excellent.
Take a Prince with light armor and a GW, keep him with a unit.

2 blocks of 20/25 skeletons with Hw/sheild combo.
Numbers are essential because empire are cheaper and fight better.

1 or 2 blocks of 10-14 archers(depending on how you like to play) one to protect your liche priest and perhaps shoot those pesky detachments.
In general empire will have th numbers to avoid panic, so shooting isn't really advisable.

I'd probably stay away from chariots, ushabti, bone giants as:
Handgunners Destroy Chariots and Ushabti
Cannons Destroy Chariots, Ushabti and Bone Giants

Scorpions are terrific as they are very hard to kill, hunting war machines will earn you easy VP's but the damage is usually done by the time the scorpions arrive. For this reason scorpions are best used in tandom with a block of skellies. The scorpions provide the kills for the big ranked unit.

Knights are very effective against Tk.
The only things that really work are:

flank charges with scorpions (you'll lose by one usually but 'construct' will protect)

Bone giants and Ushabti Tend to kill a couple.

Carrion. Sounds odd, but when a unit of 6 of them charges into some knights there is just so many to kill (12 wounds) and CR doesn't crumble enough. This usually ties them up for a turn or two to make a countercharge.

Screaming skulls is effective against anyone really, always take skulls of the foe.

09-11-2006, 00:33
i have to disgree with the knights being effective against tomb kings, unless the knights have more then one attack they just cant stay around for combat against a skelleton block. Especially one that can resurect the fallen

09-11-2006, 00:55
ahh i see , okay well i was planing to take a unit of 4 chariots so i guess i should scrap them and put some tomb guard and skeletons instead .

main idea i had was like this :
2x liche priest
1xTomb Prince
2x swarm
1x scorpion
4x chariots
18x tomb guard
10x skeleton bows
10x skeleton bows
10x heavy horsemen

so i should take the casket of souls ehh ...hmm so what else should i change ? dump the 10 heavy horsemen for some more skellies ?

09-11-2006, 01:57
Heavy Horsmen Should be fine.
Take the casket if you want to, its not essential, but it is good.
Tomb Guard are still pretty soft targets for shooting.
Swarms should do well.

Knights Flank a unit, 7 WS4 S6 and 6 WS3 S3 against Skeletons (WS2 T3)
its enough to hurt them. All they have in favour is outnumber which is cancelled by the flank charge. In subsequent rounds they strike before the skeletons and are still S4.
This 180 point unit can do a lot against a fully ranked unit of skeletons.

09-11-2006, 03:42
Definitley take a screaming skull catapult... Empire men arent nearly as brave as we fair Elves.. or us noble Bretonnians so you should be able to send a fair few running.

Use fear to your advantage, it's your bigges strength. Ganging up on units will guarantee you an autobreak. Use scorpions for the war machines, take two... they are dirt cheap. You SHOULD own the magic phase entirely so don't worry about that too much. If this guy isnt well versed in versing TK then he is in for a real surprise. Tomb Kings are one of the toughest opponents to take on if you have little experience against them, simply because they ignore so many rules that other armies suffer from.

I would suggest a unit of Tomb Guard with the Prince and the Icon of Rakaph... (the free reform one) that thing can catch people off guard, and also considering you can charge on the turn you use it... its a good way to go.

I really wouldn't bother with your cavalry... I have no faith in TK cavalry, heavy or light. They are useless in my opinion.

I would go for large blocks, backed up by constructs and chariots. Give the chariots that banner that people have to re-roll shooting hits with and grants a 5+ ward against artillery. That thing has pissed me off my Glade Guard and Field Trebuchets many a time.

09-11-2006, 07:32
i'd definitely take the casket....roll an 8 and you've eliminated a cannon crew. failing that take the catapult, it's worth it's weight in gold on most occassions. With either of these options it's best to protect them either flanking chariots or a fat unit of warriors or TG. Against empire a scorpion is a great option, taking out a helblaster in turn 2 is always good news. Staff of ravening priest with a unit of light cav is a good option sometimes, but better for elves than humans....still handy against handgunners and similarly light armoured troops. definetly watch out for 2 things; knights and a a big unit of spearmen with the griffon banner....if you see a big unit of empire troops pump it with shooting and magic before you try to engage it head on or else you're in trouble

thats all i got.

09-11-2006, 08:43
The SSC would be one of my definite musts for facing the Empire. Their moderate Leadership means taking the 'skulls of the foes' to reduce their Ld further and make them flee a lot sooner.

09-11-2006, 10:35
Empire men arent nearly as brave as we fair Elves.. or us noble Bretonnians so you should be able to send a fair few running.

Actually Empire aren't that bad. Any decent empire player will keep his general with 90% of the units. Ld 8 in small battles and Ld 9 in 2000pts+ is generally enough. Plus there is also Imperial banner etc. So they fair about the same against the Casket and the Skulls (given the -1 most people are unhappy).

09-11-2006, 13:04
k, got more time now :)

as already mentioned 2 lich priests and 1 prince.
I would give the staff of raving and ofcourse the hieratic jar.

thea prince in a unit would be nice, but also in a chariot with 5+ ws ( and S7+ won't auto destroy)
and +1 US would make him a good flanker.

you could also put him in a unit of chariots and give the chariots the abnenr of the undying legion.
as the cannon can only kill 1 charito at max every turn it shouldn't be 2 ahrd to raise them back.
if you move it right the cannon can only shoot 1 turn at your chariots ( or 0 with magical movemant)

for the core I would either go big on archers or sketlon blocks with LA SH
tunneling swarms would also be very nice.

use as much as special slots on scorpions, vs T3 they are great, especially vs empire with some shooting units.
I would try to field atleast 2.

for the rare slots both casket and SSC with sotf is nice. as empire doesn't got high leadership.
the bone giant's terror could be handy 2 but himself won't do much vs a large horde of cheap T3 infentry.

09-11-2006, 20:01
okay thanks for all your help guys :)
i will try to put it to good use !

09-11-2006, 20:46

maybe this will help. I played last weekend on a tournament with TK against Emire and won by 900 points difference.

My list: Prince on Chariot, LA, SH, and the Flail of Skulls.
Priest, Hiratic Jar, Dispel, Steed
Priest, Dispel, Steed

20 Skeleton Warriors, Bow, Standard
20 Skeleton Warriors, Bow, Standard
3 Chariots, Standard, War Banner
3 Ushabti
2 Tomb Swarms
SSC with all skulls you can get. Thats exactly 1500 points.

First, I didn't know what to do. But I think the key is, just wait and and then strike hard back, if he charges your bows. Try to be tricky with your magic move with your chariots forward and then let them via magic move beside his knights, or move them back. try to flank with your prince and just threaten him, but do not charge the first unit you can. Your bowman can be easily save your points, if you be out ouf range of his x-bows and handguns. just enjoy, how he has to make the game (maybe knowing, that your army is faster and more mobile than his is).

Tell us please, how'd you fought.


10-11-2006, 11:13
well it was basicly his slaughter of my poor little skeletons ...
I took the following :

20xskeletons light armour and shield
20xskeletons light armour and shield
10xskeletons bows
10skeletonss bows
18x Tomb guard ( with prince inside )
2x swarm
1x Scorpion
2x Priest

he brought a cannon and basicly his free companys and a unit of knights
( we decided to play a rather simple game )
My swarms died in an accident , my scorpion killed his cannon crew , his knights killed my 20 bowmen , and the rest of his units basicly raped my skeletons blocks he had a magic i item some ring of fire or something which i threw only 1 dispell dice at which was a mistake .
at the end of turn 6 all i had left was my hyrophant and 20 skeletons .
killed around 40 of his spearmen and thats basicly it ...

next week a 2250 pts game ...Chariots anyone ? :)

10-11-2006, 11:56
Just played a 1500 with my empire vs mates TK.
This is the tournament(ish) I've been working on.

Warrior Priest General, Heavy Armor, Great Weapon,
Doomfire Ring(bound pwr 3 d6 S3 hits)
Captain BsB, Full Plate

Wizard Wizard Staff, Dispel Scroll

20 Swordsmen Full Command
10 Free Company
8 Crossbowmen

16 Greatswords Full Command
8 Free Company
8 Crossbowmen

10 Archers

6 Inner Circle Knights Musician, Champion

6 Pistoliers Marksman w/ Repeater Pistol

Great Cannon

His Army
Priest w/ Staff of ravaging
20 warriors Hw+Sheild command
20 warriors Hw+Sheild command
20 warriors Hw+Sheild command
14 archers
14 archers
14 archers
5 light cavalry
3 chariots
4 carrion

It went Quite well indeed.
Even though my knights failed fear for a combined charge with the pistoliers on some archers, the pistols still managed to break through and kill his catapult. (in 2nd turn).
The knights joined the 20 Free company on the flank and annihilated 20 skeletons w/ La shields full command.
The Archers escorted the mage up the opposite flank, destroying some light cavalry and whittling down his units.
The crossbows used their decent range and hung back (out of the way), killing archers and finishing the chariot that the cannon didn't kill.
The Greatswords just managed to hold a charge (BSB reroll, double 1's) against the Prince and his now diminished unit(thanks doomfire ring!), which allowed the swords and Warrior priest to flank it.
The pistoliers were arrowed to death(its always the way) and the knights cleaned up the remaining skeleton archers with the help of my archers (killed 6!)
Even though i forgot about my warrior priests dispel dice (giving me 4 in total) i managed to keep his meagre magic under control.

10-11-2006, 12:32
As many Screaming Skulls as you can cram into the list would be great against Empire with their warmachines having quite a low leadership once the general rush off to boost the state troops :p