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Twilight
08-11-2006, 22:17
ok, i love dwarfs!!! i mean i worship them!! there the best! and like alot of you, i adore slayers and wanted to start a slayer army. has anyone had any experience with slayer army building? if so let me know about it. Thanks.

Twilight

Neknoh
08-11-2006, 22:18
We found a witch, may we burn him?

In all honestly though, are you planning on a Dwarf book Slayer army or a Storm of Chaos Slayer Army?

gorenut
08-11-2006, 22:36
I'd recommend you to build an army based around Slayers with the Dwarf Army book rather than do the Storm of Chaos variant. The SOC one will get redundant to play and will get boring for both you and your opponent.

snurl
09-11-2006, 05:01
I have an SOC Slayer army and it is fun to use once and awhile.
Otherwise, I play Dwarves.
I only take The slayer army to a game if I am in a hurry because it doesn't take too many models to pack up to make 2000 points.
They are very good at taking out just about anything but watch out for missile heavy opponents. A large contingent of halfling bowmen shot my army to pieces once, the only time it lost a battle.

Be sure to field a full compliment of doomseekers.

The Goblin hewer is overrated unless you are firing it at goblins or skaven.

Archaon
09-11-2006, 05:34
Nay for several reasons:

a) It is a SoC list which means not legal anymore in GW official tournaments (if you attend them)

b) It's a one trick pony.. you may win the first few battles but after that your opponents will easily adapt and shoot, magic or hack you apart

c) It's an extremely boring army to play with and against it. All you do is advance, get into close combat and then slug it out until your opponent breaks or your regiment is killed to the last dwarf. Nothing else will change that and with the dwarf slow movement you can forget about fun tactics like outflanking.
Does that sound like fun?

d) It's rather expensive since there are only metal miniatures for it.

snurl
09-11-2006, 06:22
Boring? Not for a Dwarf player. I found them to be quite different from the same old stand and shoot, defensive game that Dwarves tend to lend themselves to.
Slayer armies can assault. The "look Snorri, Trolls!" rule gets them 2-12 inches further into the table than usual, then, by charging units with multiple doomseekers or doomseeker/hero combinations, you can pin enemy regiments in place to set them up with a charge with your ranked up units.
It was fun for me to see the panic on our local undead player's face when he realised that there would be no auto-breaking.
As a Dwarf player, I am often confounded by the skirmish screens used by my opponents, such as giant rats, snotlings. It was nice to turn the tables on them with the Doomseekers for a change.

Voltaire
09-11-2006, 09:01
They would become more monotonous than anything after a couple of games. Who really wants to be stuck painting 2000 points worth of Orange Beards to only have them trundle across the battlefield picking up minimal momentum.

Scythe
09-11-2006, 09:56
The SoC list is a grimmick. Does horrible things to one army, and performs terrible against another. Makes the game way to much army dependant imho. My Dark Elves take apart a slayer army without even breaking in sweat. My Vampires suffer horribly against one.

ashc
09-11-2006, 10:46
NO no no.

Do as Gorenut suggested or don't bother.

Ash

zak
09-11-2006, 11:20
In the normal dwarf armybook you are very limited as to how many slayers you can have. You are allowed one unit, but for each further unit you must have a hero level slayer and of course you are still bound by the army building rules allowing only so many special choices and requiring atleast two/three (can't remember) core units. You can certainly build a mostly slayer army, but not an all slayer army like the SoC list allows. Personally, I see the normal dwarf list as allowing you much more flexibility in your choices as it allows for a bit of additional firepower to your army (Quarellers or Thunderers) or even a gyrocopter.

squiggoth
09-11-2006, 11:30
The SoC Slayer army list is more or less the pinnacle of Rock-Paper-Scissorshammer, since you can guess the outcome of a battle with about 99% certainty before both armies have even deployed. All you have to know is what race the opponent is fielding. Great fun, but not really. :p

heretics bane
09-11-2006, 18:03
there ok but no one wants to fight an armie that wins at everything, good aginst magic heavy oppenats, slayers take pretty much anything down! every one hitting on 4+ that rocks aginst everthing

The Judge
09-11-2006, 18:33
I have a Slayer army, and painting those hundred and ten buggers was... an experience.

I don;t do orange anymore. Or play with them. Very boring after three or four games.

hertz
09-11-2006, 22:45
I have a Slayer army, and painting those hundred and ten buggers was... an experience.

I don;t do orange anymore. Or play with them. Very boring after three or four games.

Then, you better post me those oranglings, yessss? :D

Tastyfish
10-11-2006, 00:05
there ok but no one wants to fight an armie that wins at everything, good aginst magic heavy oppenats, slayers take pretty much anything down! every one hitting on 4+ that rocks aginst everthing

Its not that, its the unbreakable aspect. Every combat just ends up how can kill the other person down to a man and a game with either end in this or the enemy just running around the slayers shooting the odd one or two off until the game ends.

The battle will never be fun, each person ends up ignoring all but one phase of the game, and no one wants to be fighting in the same one.

snurl
10-11-2006, 10:58
Well Twilight, I hope that answers your questions.

I only made a slayer army because I had enough slayers to do it, with the addition of 6 doomseekers and a goblin hewer. (+10 slayer pirates)
but it looks as if there's not much point in going out and buying a new all metal slayer army, that is, unless you really have a need to just do it. Expensive.

If you're determined to build one, look to E-bay first, there's always figures for sale there, sometimes great deals.

Morentez
10-11-2006, 12:56
i say yes... the army is limited... but you rule at combat... (and crush ogre armys) oh and basically any high tougness enemy is useess agianst you
*pictures a shaggoth champion geting cut down*
*cries*

Gimp
10-11-2006, 16:24
I really like the idea of a slayer army. And now it would be possible to field them now that they are plastic (I think).

Tastyfish
10-11-2006, 17:11
I really like the idea of a slayer army. And now it would be possible to field them now that they are plastic (I think).

Slayers arn't plastic, unless you intend to get lots of Skull Pass sets. Probably set you back just a bit more though. If you like the idea of a slayer army, get a normal dwarf one but do the dwarfs up with orange beards, alternatively use troll slayers as normal dwarfs and giant slayers as the troll slayer option.

Basically the units of troll slayers are the ones who have killed a troll, most of Karak Kadrin's slayers have only just started on the path and hence haven't mastered the arts of the Slayer yet.

the anti santa
10-11-2006, 22:37
The slayer army can be a lot of fun to use, but it's true that some armies will always beat you.

Pretty much anything with fast cavalry, skirmishers and flyers are untouchable.
Whilst static gunlines will come down to who gets 1st turn and how good your Snorri rolls are.

You really need at least 15 slayer pirates and the hewer in games of 1500 or higher or you have no chance.

With the new dwarf army book you can now use most of the slayer units in your normal dwarf list, so if you have a dwarf army already they are not such a waste and painting lots of flesh and orange can be a nice change from metal and rather dull colours of the normal dwarfs.

if you want to know more about Slayer click on the link on my sig.

It's a small site, but really friendly and any questions you've got we'll be happy to answer.

Quite a few members don't even collect dwarfs or play fantasy battle.

EvC
10-11-2006, 23:42
The Slayer Army is boring and should not be any fun to use, despite what some people say. Any army that relies on psychology or has multiple high-strength models can simply say no to fighting you, and indeed I would not fight against you with my VC army (But might play you with a middile-heavy HE army) meaning there;s no fun to be had. And that's why we play, isn't it?

snurl
11-11-2006, 08:22
Yes, the Slayer Army can be a real challenge to certain armies, as their unbreakableness has a way of fouling up armies that rely on fear or numbers.
But then, we all like a challenging game, don't we?

squiggoth
11-11-2006, 09:10
But then, we all like a challenging game, don't we?

Yes, and that's why I don't play against Rock-Paper-Slayer armies anymore with neither my Chaos Warriors nor my Skink horde. ;)

gortexgunnerson
11-11-2006, 09:36
But I think most armies have a natural lean between armies you will perform well against and armies you don't perform against. I have faced Slayers using fast moving Tomb kings chariot army! The only things in my army which were capable of damaging slayers would all give 10 points back to him as I had virtually no shooting! But I still came out with a win but I had to play slightly boring style involving dividing his units and mobbing one.

People will complain that slayer games can be very static and are rock, paper sissors type game. But almost any army type can beat any other its just a case of adjusting your own plan and having your own list balanced enough to be able to adapt your style to play.

Looking at slayers in particular the playing style has large similarities to a combat heavy troop VC with large unmoveable blocks. If anything I think a VC horde is very similar to slayers except far more dangerous due to the additional nasties that can be added. So I think armies that will get cleaned by slayers will also be beaten by VCs

Tastyfish
11-11-2006, 09:43
There is a few very important differences though - Undead have the weakness of their generals to provide a way out for armies that would otherwise struggle to break them, they rely heavily on magic and still use the CR rules and hence its worth flanking them.

Slayers use none of these and remove the use of magic from you as well. I'd be curious how you would suggest beating them with vampire counts?

squiggoth
11-11-2006, 10:06
People will complain that slayer games can be very static and are rock, paper sissors type game. But almost any army type can beat any other its just a case of adjusting your own plan and having your own list balanced enough to be able to adapt your style to play.

True, but Slayers take R-P-S to the extreme. My Nurgle army doesn't stand a chance against them, no matter wether I make a list specifically tailored to fight slayers, or a balanced take-on-all-comers list. It's comprised of a lot of slow, mediocre combat troops (Warriors, Marauders, Nurglings) who pay a lot of points for an abilty that is in this case worthless (Fear). I could take Nurgle Knights, but every kill grants you extra VP (because they're S5) so I'll be shooting myself in the foot (and they'll die just as easily as the infantry).

My Skink army on the other hand contains skinks, swarms and salamanders and will just have to walk around a bit and roll dice in order to win. Take out the Goblin Hewer and the axe-swinging loony things and then spend the rest of the battle casually removing Troll Slayers with blowpipes and salamander phlegm.

I have to admit that both armies are extremes in gaming terms (fluff vs. cheese), but against most armies they both have about 50/50 win-loss record whilst against Slayers it's pretty much 0/100 for Nurgle and 100/0 for Skinks .... Which IMHO makes the suicidal punk gnome horde the ultimate Rock-Paper-Scissors army which puts even my Skinks to shame. ;)

EvC
11-11-2006, 12:44
But then, we all like a challenging game, don't we?

We don't like a game whose outcome is determined before deployment, however. It wouldn't be so bad if the 10VP return when killed by anything decent didn't exist, but even then it wouldn't be fun...