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Grand_Marshal_Kazan
04-07-2005, 12:36
What happened to the mark I - III Dreadnoughts?

Was the original one http://www.solegends.com/citcat88/4104marines.htm supposed to be the mk I?

Brother Smith
04-07-2005, 13:15
Simple really, GW stopped making them!

They were part of the fluff that was phased out in the RT -> 2nd edition transition.

Grand_Marshal_Kazan
04-07-2005, 13:18
Simple really, GW stopped making them!

They were part of the fluff that was phased out in the RT -> 2nd edition transition.

I know that they stopped producing them, I even owned one of them. What I wanted to know was if there was any fluff about the earlier marks. Probably not knowing GW.

Probably the original one was the first one.

The metal Chaos one could be mark 2 or three?

EmperorsChamp01
04-07-2005, 14:08
Well that sorta thing is long sence forgotton in the arcives. They might have awhile ago but not any more

Brusilov
04-07-2005, 18:38
I think this mini comes from those times when GW did not yet bother about explaining phasing out models (not that they really do now either).

TheSonOfAbbadon
04-07-2005, 18:43
Maybe the imperium decided to use the new, better version.

x-esiv-4c
04-07-2005, 18:44
They looked like crap so GW trashed them.

Brusilov
04-07-2005, 18:49
I'll admit that the new dreads look much better...

Brother Othorio
04-07-2005, 18:51
he isnt asking about the original model, Forgeworld classifies their headed dreadnought as a the mkIV and the standard plastic imperial dreadnought as the mkV.. he wants to know what the mkI-III were..

i suppose its a pretty fair bet to put the RT dreads as the mkI and the current metal chaos dread could i suppose be the mkIII, but i really havent the foggiest about the mkII as the only other dreadnoughts i can think of are the RT chaos dread ~ which was basically a mutated loyalist one, or the imperial dread from the EPIC Stompers box (which was basically a mkIV, tho in the art the helmet was depicted as being the same size as a regular mk7 power armour helmet) ohhh, unless maybe they are counting the Space Crusade Chaos Dreadnought? (which also turned up severly shrunken in the EPIC Stompers box..)

Brimstone
04-07-2005, 18:56
What happened to the mark I - III Dreadnoughts?

Was the original one http://www.solegends.com/citcat88/4104marines.htm supposed to be the mk I?

Probably not, I think it's the Mark II and this is the Mark III

http://www.pbase.com/brimstone/image/45710262/large.jpg

The mark I was probably a prototype Dreadnought and didn't go into full production and use by the Legions.

From a background point of view it's difficult to reconcile the mark's II & III absence from current day first founding chapters, most probably there are still a few around held in high esteme and reverence by the techmarines.

Brusilov
04-07-2005, 19:12
Honestly to me this looks more like on the robots of the Legio Cybernetica than a dreadnought. Although the sarcophagus could easily be hidden somewhere within the hull, it should visible, if only to honour the mighty warrior within.

Brimstone
04-07-2005, 19:24
Honestly to me this looks more like on the robots of the Legio Cybernetica than a dreadnought. Although the sarcophagus could easily be hidden somewhere within the hull, it should visible, if only to honour the mighty warrior within.

It's a dreadnought, the design was originally used in Epic and was used again in the HH artbooks.

As for the lack of a visible sarcophagus it's not that much different to the Mk IV Forgeworld dreadnoughts.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/spacemarines/venult3.jpg

Brusilov
04-07-2005, 19:37
Granted, you do have a point there. I guess I'm just used to the current Space Marine dreadnought, even if I've known the old RT dreadsnoughts for ages.

Getz
05-07-2005, 00:22
Well bearing in mind that the metal chaos dread is a distinctly different design from the Mk Iv and V, but is clearly closely related - the Chaos Dread must be the MkIII and that artwork presumably represents the MkII. Thus, the RT erea Dread is the MkI...

rockywuff
05-07-2005, 00:30
If I remember correctly, they explain in Imp.Armour vol.2 that the Mk4 dreadnought was used in the time during the horus heresy, and was found prone to daemonic possession, which led to the development of the Mk5 dread with a sarcophagus that is better protected against such intrusion. The Mk4 dreads that are still in service are heavily protected by spiritual wards and purity seals.

It doesn't give any info about the Mk3 and earlier dreads though.

Rabid Bunny 666
05-07-2005, 00:59
From a background point of view it's difficult to reconcile the mark's II & III absence from current day first founding chapters, most probably there are still a few around held in high esteme and reverence by the techmarines.


but bjorn is mounted in a "modern" dread, so i'm not sure

jimbo034
05-07-2005, 01:30
perhaps his original dreadnaut was destroy but he survived so he was mounted in a MK5

Rabid Bunny 666
05-07-2005, 01:37
but marines fight furiously to recover downed dreads so that the sarcophagus is recovered and so the rare dreadnaughts are restored to full working order

Goblinardo
05-07-2005, 01:56
The C'tan did it! :p

Perhaps the old Dreads, like so many other pieces of Human tech, just can't be repaired now? It's a possibility that modern Dread's technology is better understood (more like "Their particular rituals are more documented and sanctified, praise the Omnissiah", but anyway)

MorningStar
05-07-2005, 04:54
I would definately take into account the destroyed factor of all the dreadnoughts. I would wager the sarcophagus is the most armored part of the dread and could with stand alot of punishment, so they could be recovered and placed into another dread.

Bmaxwell
05-07-2005, 05:02
yea it would make sense for that to happen besides i bet they have to use different feet for different loctaions.

im surpised there not a treaded dread for urban places

charlie_c67
05-07-2005, 13:49
but bjorn is mounted in a "modern" dread, so i'm not sure
Bjorn died after the heresy though. When the MkV would've been in service.

Apollyon
05-07-2005, 17:04
My $.02 MKI - II dreads were armoured suits as contrasted to the living tombs they are now and they would be suplanted by "Tactical Dreadnought" armour

Puffin Magician
05-07-2005, 17:36
We must remember that some of the oldest background says that Imperial Robots and Space Marine Dreadnoughts had interchangeable parts. Perhaps nearly all the MkIIs and IIIs, over the years, were damaged beyond repair, but still had several salvageable components that later went to the Legio Cybernetica to be cannibalized.

Existing versions of the oldest Dreadnoughts are probably never sent to warzones for fear of being lost, being used only for ceremonial duties or other low-risk tasks.

Nazguire
06-07-2005, 12:15
Being used for ceremonial purposes doesn't sound like something that the Marines would do. They're Marines first, showponies 215th. :D I can see them being used only in desperate battles though, much how the Space Wolves won't pull out Bjorn unless its really really really really desperate, like when the Thousand Sons attacked the Fang for example.

Azhrahg
07-07-2005, 12:47
Being used for ceremonial purposes doesn't sound like something that the Marines would do. They're Marines first, showponies 215th. :D I can see them being used only in desperate battles though, much how the Space Wolves won't pull out Bjorn unless its really really really really desperate, like when the Thousand Sons attacked the Fang for example.

Actually it sounds excactly like something a marine would do. They have many revered artifacts, and though I can't give a citation, I remember mentionings of ceremonial artifacts being used by marines. Bjorn is a completely different matter. The reason they don't wake him up all the time, is that he's tired - simple but true, at least according to the 2nd ed. codex.

Azhrahg

Thylacine
06-07-2006, 06:35
Brimstone, I thought that the first dreadnoughts had pilots that could leave their machines and that the longer the pilot sat in the dread the greater the chance of going mad from all the feedback. That image of yours still looks as if only bits of a marine are in the dread.

I remember reading about Dreadnought gangs in the RT days.

I have five of the old dreads, one still in the blister, they don't work too well with the 4th ed rules as they don't have an assault cannon and sometimes the weapons are on the wrong side (this can be a bonus) I had a red shirt spit the dummy when the las-canon mounted on the left side of the dread had LoS to his Eldar walker and took it out.

Anyone know if the metal Epic titan weapons will fit the old dreads?

Thylacine

Apollyon
06-07-2006, 15:07
Yeah and the Guard had them too


Brimstone, I thought that the first dreadnoughts had pilots that could leave their machines and that the longer the pilot sat in the dread the greater the chance of going mad from all the feedback. That image of yours still looks as if only bits of a marine are in the dread.

I remember reading about Dreadnought gangs in the RT days.

I have five of the old dreads, one still in the blister, they don't work too well with the 4th ed rules as they don't have an assault cannon and sometimes the weapons are on the wrong side (this can be a bonus) I had a red shirt spit the dummy when the las-canon mounted on the left side of the dread had LoS to his Eldar walker and took it out.

Anyone know if the metal Epic titan weapons will fit the old dreads?

Thylacine

the dark angel
06-07-2006, 17:21
mark 1s are venerable dreadnoughts and the one you have is mark 2

Mechanicus
06-07-2006, 21:03
I did some looking on this in the HH artbooks, and combined with old and current info and stuff from this thread I came up with this:

Dreadnought Armour: Developed mid-Great Crusade, this armour was originally designed to simply be an enhancing battlesuit, but eventually became a sarcophagus for the mortally wounded.

Mark I (Source, HH Volume III page 80) I chose this armour as Mk I because it was the least like the current Dreadnoughts.
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/1055/dreadmk17ss.png

Mark II (Source, HH volume I page 15) This armour is streamlined, still has that Space Marine Helmet and is still a progression from Mk 1. I chose it as Mk II because it's still very streamlined, something future versions lose. In the HH artbooks, there are many variants of this.
http://img290.imageshack.us/img290/5315/dreadmk24sd.png

Mark III (Source, HH Volume I page 15) I chose this to go here because it's most like the Mk IV from Forge World and it has visible progression from Mk II.
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/213/dreadmk36bv.png

Out of all these, I'd say the one shown at the start of this thread looks most like a late Mark I variant.

Dat Wildboy
06-07-2006, 21:07
the first pic Brimstone put up looked crossed between a suit of terminator armour and and eldar wraithlord. it looks too graceful, no wonder they scrapped the design...

i like the dreads we get today much better!

jfrazell
06-07-2006, 21:29
Nah, with the exception of the FW Ven and the GK dreadnought I have less of an affinity for the current versions. I think its mostly due to
1) the relatively smaller size of the old dreads seems to fit with their current armor stats better. You can see them being tougher than termies but not massively so whereas the newer versions generate (at least in my mind) greater expectations of surviveability.
2) legs. I do not like the legs of the current dreads AT ALL. They look like they would barely move, much like the lurching dread in DOW. GW can do good vehicle legs-sentinels and defiler legs being examples, but ther current dread legs just are not size appropriate.

Getz
06-07-2006, 21:56
Mechanicus... I'm inclined to believe that the Suits you have labled Mks II and III are - along with the artwork Brimmy post way back when - different variations of the same mark (I'm guessing the Mk II).

There's no reason to assume that all Dreadnoughts of the same "mark" would be identical and those three Dreadnoughts all look pretty similar to me.