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Ikkaan
04-07-2005, 14:17
I´m going to bother you all a little bit. Nothing serious, just a small brainstorming about known animals in 40k. Have a look:

Warhammer 40K Animal Map (http://www.joachim-adomeit.de/wh40k/animalmap/map.html)

The map is new and somewhat empty, so discuss and tell us of some animals you´ve heard about (probably with a small description ?). I´ll update the map as the discussion moves on. If you like you can look at the species map to make sure the animal you´re thinking of is not a sentient being :-)

Warhammer 40K Species Map (http://www.joachim-adomeit.de/wh40k/speciesmap/map.html)

EmperorsChamp01
04-07-2005, 14:21
Its a little confusing maybe you should explain it more?

Ikkaan
04-07-2005, 14:25
Oh, sorry. I *am* confusing.I made the species map some time ago. I play a wh40k-roleplaying game using D20 rules. As a GameMaster i needed a comprehensive graphic to get me some ideas, so i collected all i could get about the warhammer 40k races and minor races mentioned in side notes.

Now i want to do the same map for animals in 40k, but i don´t own any books besides the codex chaos so i want to ask (respectfully) for infos on any animals you may have heard about in 40k. The map is not limited to the actual entries.

Karhedron
04-07-2005, 15:51
The best source I know for animals was the original Rogue Trader book. This included rules and details for various creatures as well mentions of many more. Grinxes (psychic cats), Ptera Squirrels (flying rodents), Groxes (reptiles bred for meat) as well as Jokaero (not sure if they count as a race in the traditional sense) have all been mentioned in the past. The BL novels are also a good source of fluff and include such creature as Camelopards (a vaguely bird-like riding beast).

Sai-Lauren
04-07-2005, 16:17
Also things like Ambulls, all the really nasty stuff from Catachan - like Devils and Face Eaters, and of course the good old horse.
You could also have a look in Necromunda, there's everything from Milliasaurs and giant rats to giant wolf spiders.

And most BL novels have some exotically named creatures in there.

Ikkaan
04-07-2005, 17:27
Map updated. Keep the fluff coming :)

TheSonOfAbbadon
04-07-2005, 17:33
There are, in addition to the HUGE crab-like Catchan devils:
http://uk.games-workshop.com/chapterapproved/creature-feature/3/
There are the Catachan devilspawn.

Don't forget to add all the other creatures in that article, and the Catachan Greater Barking Toad.

And don't forget Ork boars.

And, Catachan devils aren't Tyranids.

And since when were the Demiurg and Tau associated?

There are some species/races that are hidden in the creature feature article such as:

The Catachan brain leaf, a plant from which the merest touch can reduce a trespasser to a dribbling, psychopathic automaton.

Tyranid Cortex Leeches, these loathsome things leap onto their prey's head, inserting long feelers into their ears and noses with which they manipulate their host's brain.

Kashann hunting lizards, they have a hide thick as a flak vest and a bite that'll take your arm off.

Mordant Pit Rats, big rats, basically.

Canak Gladehounds, strange wild dogs.

Cthelle Icebacks, I don't know, beasts that live in cold conditions.

Bloodstalkers of Flotis III, lizard-like dogs with red faces.

TheSonOfAbbadon
04-07-2005, 17:59
Gork is the Ork god of strength and Mork is the Ork god of cunning!

Ikkaan
05-07-2005, 12:48
Map is updated.

- Are Ork boars just boars or are they included in the Ork DNA like squigs ?
- As i understood the Demiurg are part of the tau empire ? No ? Was there a link ?

malika
05-07-2005, 12:52
Demiurg sold the Ion Cannon to the Tau, further than that they are not really allies, I think they have a neutral relationship.

Ikkaan
05-07-2005, 13:07
Ok, corrected that and added some info on the nicassar.

malika
05-07-2005, 13:10
what is this "mapping" program I have to download to view this?

Ikkaan
05-07-2005, 13:29
You shouldn´t have to, there is a java-applet which should display it for you. Check your browser settings.

malika
05-07-2005, 13:32
hmmm nevermind my internet and computer are weird anyway, it would probably end up going berzerk on me.

Ikkaan
06-07-2005, 13:54
Does anyone have a tyranid codex at hand ? i wish i could remember, but there was a graphic describing the tree of the tyranid genus. isn´t the catachan devil in this graphic for some reason ?

TheSonOfAbbadon
06-07-2005, 14:05
You still have Gork and Mork listed incorrectly!

Ikkaan
06-07-2005, 14:26
Should be right now.

TheSonOfAbbadon
06-07-2005, 16:04
Thanks.

You should show the Eldar Avatars on you list, branching off from Khaine.

And the Old Ones created the K'nib.

Xisor
06-07-2005, 17:20
It's not known whether the Niccassar, Kroot, Demiurg and Tau are Old One created. The Demiurg are ntoed as being ancient, but they could have been simply one of the first non-Old One races to arise. Otherwise, lumping them in there is wild speculation(that is essentially baseless outside of conspiracy theories).

Change the note on the Demiurg from 'share traits to squats' as 'squat semi-humanoids' and they seem to fill the Dwarf Archetype.

Otherwise, nice work :D

Xisor

EDIT: Woops, my suggestion being to lump the Niccassar, Kroot, Tau and Demiurg in as minor species, and not Old One related, not yet anyway...

TheSonOfAbbadon
06-07-2005, 17:24
The Squats were abhumans, like ratlings, Demiurg are what is left of them.

Xisor
06-07-2005, 17:37
No, they are not. The Demiurg are aliens, they are physically described as 'squat semi-humanoids' not 'temh squats teh abhumans!'

Nowhere is there any strict fluff linking the squats and the Demiurg, everything linking them is supposition and similarity. As it stands, the differences speak for themselves;

Squats-
Extinct and Abhuman

Demiurg-
Alive and Alien

Xisor

TheSonOfAbbadon
06-07-2005, 17:47
Really? As I understood it the Demiurg were the remains of the Squats!

Xisor
06-07-2005, 18:29
Clearly you have been misinformed. Do your own research :p

There was a Demiurg article up on SG, but it's down now :( Hopefully, when Armada is put up online, you'll be able to find out to your hearts content.

It's a major point for me. The Demiurg are GWs attempt IMO to do the 'Dwarfen Achetype' properly, they'll be a big step away from the Squats should they appear in any form. Aliens through and through, they'll share things with squats(mining, hatred of orks etc), but *not* bearded trike riding short hells angels IMO.

Xisor

TheSonOfAbbadon
06-07-2005, 19:28
Oh, I get it now.

Anyway, according to this:
http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/tyranids/extras/evolution/3.htm
Squigs are Tyranids made from Ork DNA.

Xisor
07-07-2005, 05:50
Take a look at this PDF. Some of the details are askew(Por Caste Scientists! What! :mad: !), but it contains quite extensive information on the initial formation of the Tau Empire, the first races encountered and the first wars. It also has a few pages towards the end about the Demiurg :chrome:

http://www.specialist-games.com/battlefleetgothic/assets/lrb/E_BFGTau.pdf

Xisor

Sephiroth
07-07-2005, 06:40
Take a look at this PDF. Some of the details are askew(Por Caste Scientists! What! :mad: !), but it contains quite extensive information on the initial formation of the Tau Empire, the first races encountered and the first wars. It also has a few pages towards the end about the Demiurg :chrome:

http://www.specialist-games.com/battlefleetgothic/assets/lrb/E_BFGTau.pdf

Xisor

As Xisor has said, the Demiurg aren't abhumans, but true aliens. They are a redesign of 'Dwarfs' in 40K, not the Squats, whom never did the achetype justice in GW's opinion.

And the Water Caste 'Scientists', would be Pete Haines (also of the Railrifle background) again being unable to get the Castes right.

Off hand, does anyone find it worrying that the 'first' race the Tau encountered was brought within their Empire not through a treaty or trade agreement, etc, but through war and eventual subjugation? :eyebrows:

Wiseman
07-07-2005, 06:55
catachan barking toad and the giant catachan barking toad been mentioned already?

Xisor
07-07-2005, 07:24
Sephiroth, indeed I do find it disturbing, but then humanity's 'great powers' were never too great close to home. Look at the English for example, greatest Empire the world ever saw, the Great British Empire, I can warrant that the Scots, Irish and Welsh had to do a fair bit of fighting(and unfortunately losing :( ) before that happened!

Rome wasn't a success of diplomacy either... :rolleyes:

Still, it seems the Tau have learnt quite a lessen in the time since their initial encounters with the Niccassar. The Kroot for example, probably one of the most successful ones yet in that they are *in* but still a huge force in their own right...

Xisor

PS I wonder, perhaps rules for an all Kroot list in Epic Armageddon? Warsphere orbitals and 'ground fortresses'?

Ikkaan
07-07-2005, 09:59
- Barking Toad are already in.
- Squigs are Tyranids ? Heh ? I thought Squigs grow where orks are and get eaten by orks most of the time?

TheSonOfAbbadon
07-07-2005, 10:01
I thought Squigs were Orkoid too, turns out the Tyranids made them and the Orks captured them or something.

TheSonOfAbbadon
07-07-2005, 10:08
There are 2 kinds of Catachan Barking Toad, Lesser and Greater, you have only listed 'Barking Toad', also, they are AMPHIBIOUS, not reptillian.

EDIT: It would also be a good idea to add "Many area-sepcific creatures" to the Tyranid tree, as there are many Tyranid creatures only found in certain areas.

Ikkaan
07-07-2005, 10:11
I think this info is horribly wrong. Look here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orks_(Warhammer)) for ork reproduction. Squigs are part of the ork DNA.

Karhedron
07-07-2005, 10:13
As Xisor has said, the Demiurg aren't abhumans, but true aliens. They are a redesign of 'Dwarfs' in 40K, not the Squats, whom never did the achetype justice in GW's opinion.
I think it is probably fairer to say that GW never did the archetype justice when creating squats. The whole Hell's Angels look was very late 80s and they simply never bothered updating or redesigning them. There were some concept models produced during 2nd edition that looked very nice and showed they were moving in the sort of Anglosaxon/Viking direction that they took Fantasy Dwarves. They could have reinvented Squats at this point they just couldn't be bothered.

There was a problem though. A lot of more norse aspects of the imagery had already been taken by the Space Wolves at this point. This left Squats with a slight shortage of imagery without coming across as short drunken Space Wolves.


I thought Squigs were Orkoid too, turns out the Tyranids made them and the Orks captured them or something.
In the very early fluff that was the case but it is no longer consiedered 'canon'. Squigs are part of the genetically engineered Orkoid ecosystem that is generated by sporing. The units that used to be called squigs in the Tyranid army have now morphed into Ripper Swarms and are no longer supposed to be based on Ork DNA.

Basically it depends which version of the fluff you prefer.

Ramognino
08-07-2005, 17:33
Thank you for pointing me out to the animal mind map. I'll be adding it into the background section of my website.

I would also add in that Caraytids as an animal/possible sentinent creature for Necromunda, but that may be completely fan fluff. There is only one mention I found on the net for Necromunda and a quick scan of the Confrontation articles in White Dwarf doesn't seem to have them either, but maybe I am glazing over it. :confused:

The website that describes Caraytids (http://www.confrontation.8k.com/spook.html) also has a picture of them.. which comes fron the Confrontation articles in White Dwarf. :wtf:

Ah, well, I was about to suggest them and come off incredibly versed and knowledgeable, but there goes that. I am just confused now. :rolleyes:

Signing Off for Now,

Ramognino @ Project: Necromunda (http://necromunda.diaryland.com)
+ Home of The Necromunda Name Project (http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/The_Necromunda_Name_Project) & the Necromunda Ring (http://m.webring.com/hub?ring=necromundaring).

PrUpLeHaZe
08-07-2005, 22:43
Did you make up this roleplaying game yourself or did you have to buy it/get it off the internet?
If you got it off the net could you post it of email it to me?
Or if you made it up try to post some of the basic rules or something.
im no good at game design but i have been trying to find a 40k rpg.
I bet there are a lot of people on the site that would like that.

Ikkaan
09-07-2005, 10:23
It´s completely free, based on WotC´s D20 Modern RPG.

The (ugly) website: d20 Warhammer 40k (http://www.geocities.com/skrittiblak/)

Downloads for the needed PDF: Downloads (http://savefile.com/filehost/projects.php?pid=483879)

The Thread that started it all on the Wizards Boards: here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=361433&page=1&pp=30)

Since the whole system was already there it had not to be re-invented, the rules are rock solid. If you read the message board, the rules are being corrected as we have complete errata now. Guess sometime the pdf´s will be overwritten with a corrected version (but you can play happily with the current rules...i like them).

TheSonOfAbbadon
09-07-2005, 11:42
You still only have "Barking toad" listed instead of both Greater and Lesser Catachan Barking Toads...

And they're AMPHIBIANS NOT REPTILES!

EDIT: http://www.solegends.com/citrt/rt602ambull.htm Picture of an Ambull, looks like an insect to me.

Ikkaan
11-07-2005, 12:25
Thnx...i added the info.

TheSonOfAbbadon
11-07-2005, 19:45
Thanks, sorry if I seemed a bit stressy.

Oh, and I believe Genestealers were not made from human DNA as they are the scouts for the hive fleets and always have been for this galaxy, therefore they cannot have been made from human DNA as they were the first tyranids in this galaxy.

Ikkaan
13-07-2005, 09:37
I don´t know if thats true, maybe its false info. Can you prove that genestealers are not made from human dna ? They seem to mix pretty well with human dna.

Barbarossa
13-07-2005, 09:57
Well, they were designed to mix with their host's DNA. Since almost all genestealers encountered by the Imperium were born from human hosts first (genestealer cult), they tend to have lots of human DNA. But the first genestealers found on the moon of Ymgarl had DNA linking them to some kind of giant leech living there.
Anyways, it's entirely possible to have a genestealer evolving from ork or eldar stock. I guess they'd look somewhat different, too.

Ikkaan
13-07-2005, 13:11
Humhum...okay. Orky genestealers...nice thought.

PKAGustov
13-07-2005, 21:01
For a while there were ork hybrids. I owned one.

TheSonOfAbbadon
13-07-2005, 21:05
Humhum...okay. Orky genestealers...nice thought.

I believe NAVARRO and many people accosiated with Hive Fleet Moloch are designing many different genestealers from different animals, NAVARRO has done alot of modelling and has alot of different genestealers.

swordquest
13-07-2005, 21:22
I can't see teh map, but here are some that you will want if you don't have from nid land(teh new codex)
Brainleaf thingies are supposedly nid in origin.
Krakens, from Fenris are believed to be nid in origin
Catachan devils are also
Individual types of nids are different species according to the new dex'.
The tyranid genus is Tyranicii.
familys include Gauntii, Corporaptor, and Tyranicus and others.

Ikkaan
14-07-2005, 11:09
i would be interested in getting a newer tree of the tyranid species...maybe you should try to get a look at the mindmap (maybe with an other browser ?) and give me instructions to correct it ?

PrUpLeHaZe
30-07-2005, 02:39
If your gonna start looking at maps of the tyranids you had better make alot of room. A lot of people make up there owns speices and there are many different sources to get it from. I would say it would be a better idea for the gm to just customize their own fleet (maybe make a template for the stealers if they dont already have 1?

Dravis
31-07-2005, 08:53
Some aditional species:
Cornochinae (thrice-damned, Source: Necron Codex, page 27)
Chuffians 3rd ed rulebook
Gethvar (Initiates of the, Source: Necron Codex, page 27)
Vendichi (Traders, Source: Necron Codex, page 27)

...and Rashan, K’nib should be listed under old ones, Source: Necron Codex, page 25.

Hrud and Demurg should not be however as thats unknown I believe.

Some more from Black Library:
Sirens - worm like things that take over someones body
- from a short story called Siren call by Gav Thorpe
Noctal – spindly, insectoid, enslavers. Use space craft and Ground Armour – tanks?
- from Raptor Down, by Gav Thorpe printed in Words of Blood

TheSonOfAbbadon
31-07-2005, 12:39
If your gonna start looking at maps of the tyranids you had better make alot of room. A lot of people make up there owns speices and there are many different sources to get it from. I would say it would be a better idea for the gm to just customize their own fleet (maybe make a template for the stealers if they dont already have 1?

I don't think non-canon made up species count, if they do, you better count the Behemoths and Man Eaters of Kraag.