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View Full Version : Does this work? Movement vs Reform



aforce808
11-11-2006, 15:34
Imagine you have a line of archers: ^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^

1) Turn them to the left/right 90 degress for 1/4 movment:
<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<

2) Then use half your movement to add up to 5 models to the front
rank (new rule). The front rank is now the model on your furtherest flank.

<<<<<
<<<<<
<<<<<
<<<<<

3) Then use your final 1/4 movement to turn 90 degrees to the right.
So now you have 5x4 (thus will have combat resolution).

^^^^^
^^^^^
^^^^^
^^^^^

Now you can still shoot in the movement phase as it wasnt classed as
a 'reform'. And I would imagine you could do this at any point in
your line, possibly preventing a charge on your archers and at the
very least, giving you some points toward combat resolution to help
you hold them in place for the flank charge. Let me know what you think!

Festus
11-11-2006, 15:41
Hi

Looks perfectly legal to me....

Festus

mattjgilbert
11-11-2006, 15:56
Seems fine so far as I understand the rules :)

NakedFisherman
11-11-2006, 16:05
I've done it myself a few times already. However, there's little or no reason for so much turning. It's easier just to change formation twice.

Festus
11-11-2006, 16:12
Hi

It's easier just to change formation twice.
This will not work, I am afraid, as the rules say that the change has to work from the middle outward. If you don't rurn, your middle will stay the same....

Festus

NakedFisherman
11-11-2006, 17:34
Hi

This will not work, I am afraid, as the rules say that the change has to work from the middle outward. If you don't rurn, your middle will stay the same....

Festus

I meant that the same formation occurs. Your unit doesn't move sideways, however, and the sideways movement is (usually) not desired.

WLBjork
11-11-2006, 17:57
Legal, but you have to consider if the to hit penalty and the shots sacrificed are worthwhile compared to the shots from the line.

Festus
11-11-2006, 18:58
Hi

I meant that the same formation occurs. Your unit doesn't move sideways, however, and the sideways movement is (usually) not desired.
Ah yes, but one of the OPs things was the sidemovement - to evade charging units and such. With 7th, you will need only one change of up to 10 models in the front rank to have the desired ranking effect, of course.

Festus

aforce808
11-11-2006, 23:00
Legal, but you have to consider if the to hit penalty and the shots sacrificed are worthwhile compared to the shots from the line.

I think they are, as I play with Tomb Kings. :)

intellectawe
12-11-2006, 00:00
So.... sort of the same question...

My unit rolls for reserves and arrives on the board. Could I form them up as such...

bmc<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<| off table

they are all facing to the left, banner, musician and champion in the front.

I spend 50% movement to make them

b<<<<
m<<<<
c<<<<
<<<<<

Then spend 25% movement to face them towards any direction

^bcm^
^^^^^
^^^^^
^^^^^

I assume this is legal also?

Festus
12-11-2006, 08:26
No, this is beardy :cheese:

The rules say to treat reserves like units which return to the table. They will return in exactly the formation they left. Even if your example is *legal* :eyebrows:, you fail to consider that this line is not the formation the unit shall have, but just a way to abuse a loophole in the rules to gain a few unfair inches to your movement distance.
Just my 2c.

Festus

Yellow Commissar
12-11-2006, 14:34
I agree with Festus. I think that ignores The Most Important Rule.

woytek
12-11-2006, 15:48
Wasn't there a strict rule that no matter what, no model may move further then it's maximum distance?

Festus
12-11-2006, 16:08
Hi

Wasn't there a strict rule that no matter what, no model may move further then it's maximum distance?
unit...double its M...hardly possible with two changes of a twelve strong unit...

Festus

DeathlessDraich
12-11-2006, 17:33
Wasn't there a strict rule that no matter what, no model may move further then it's maximum distance?

This is under 'Reform' - "cannot move twice their M rate".
Changing formation does not have that limitation and did not in the 6th ed.

woytek
12-11-2006, 18:52
This is under 'Reform' - "cannot move twice their M rate".
Changing formation does not have that limitation and did not in the 6th ed.

I mean that with formations there was a rule that no model in the unit may move more then he normally can, right?

aforce808
12-11-2006, 19:53
That was a rule for fast cav and their free reform rule.

enyoss
12-11-2006, 21:25
Sorry, just a quick question. Is this 'Reserves' rule a new addition to 7th edition? I bought the new rulebook but, alas, myself and it are sundered by the Atlantic at the minute :(. If it is a new rule, can it be used in any scenario (specifically, can it be used in the pitched battle)?

Cheers,

enyoss

Festus
12-11-2006, 22:01
Hi

It is unit (special rule) or scenario specific, I am afraid...

Greetings
Festus

Lord Zarkov
12-11-2006, 22:04
it shouldn't work anyway, you can't march on further than your march rate, so if you wanted to move as described your front model would be 1/4 the units basic move from the table edge, rather than the 3/4 it would be if it it moved on normally before turining, or the double if it has marched (less if it wheels round into position) and probably wouldn't even fit on the board before the turn

enyoss
12-11-2006, 22:07
Hi

It is unit (special rule) or scenario specific, I am afraid...

Greetings
Festus

Cheers... as I thought,

enyoss

intellectawe
13-11-2006, 20:20
No, this is beardy :cheese:

The rules say to treat reserves like units which return to the table. They will return in exactly the formation they left. Even if your example is *legal* :eyebrows:, you fail to consider that this line is not the formation the unit shall have, but just a way to abuse a loophole in the rules to gain a few unfair inches to your movement distance.
Just my 2c.

Festus

Oh no!

You misunderstand me. Sorry for not making it clear.

The unit I described at the bottom of page one hasnt left the table. It is a unit of Dwarven miners, and hasnt even entered the game yet.

Now, with that in mind, it seems what I described as perfectly legal.

Thanks!

Festus
13-11-2006, 20:35
Hi

No, I did not misunderstand you: As *legal* as it may be, you should always treat newly arriving units like ones that pursued off the table. If you want your miners to be in block formation, then deploy them accordingly. Really!

Festus

intellectawe
13-11-2006, 21:09
Hi

No, I did not misunderstand you: As *legal* as it may be, you should always treat newly arriving units like ones that pursued off the table. If you want your miners to be in block formation, then deploy them accordingly. Really!

Festus

Show me where in the rule book how I "must" deploy them accordingly. Maybe I am missing it.

And the miners never pursued off the table, so I can't treat them as such, because what if they "pursued" off the table in a line formation?

I am not asking people's opinions on "beardy" and thing of this nature. My question was quite simple.

can I do this?

-edit-

I already got the answer, and yup, this can be done quite easily.

Thanks.

enyoss
13-11-2006, 21:52
Yup, you can do this. However, I get the feeling you'll only ever get the chance to do it once against an opponent ;).

Cheers,

enyoss

intellectawe
14-11-2006, 01:06
Well, why do you think only once? How could they stop it? I am no expert in such tactics, so maybe you can shed some light on how an opponent could stop it?

I wouldn't want to start using a tactic that isn't useful on the table top.

enyoss
14-11-2006, 03:33
Well, why do you think only once? How could they stop it? I am no expert in such tactics, so maybe you can shed some light on how an opponent could stop it?

I wouldn't play again! :)

Cheers,

enyoss

p.s. I'm not having a go, but I think you should know that this won't win many friends on the table :).

Pacman
14-11-2006, 11:12
Legal, but you have to consider if the to hit penalty and the shots sacrificed are worthwhile compared to the shots from the line.

For a Dwarf unit in a DoW it would, since their role is often a dual missile/close combat one.

T10
14-11-2006, 13:19
am no expert in such tactics, so maybe you can shed some light on how an opponent could stop it?


Please use this tactic and post a battle report in the tactics forum. I would like to hear your comments on how well this works.

I'd also like to hear your opponent's comments.

-T10

intellectawe
14-11-2006, 18:48
The only real gain I can see from using this tactic would be to attack an enemy from his flank, but if I can just attack them from the rear, why bother with the flank.

I will see if this tactic is even worth it. Maybe only for setting up a pursue into a second combat.

I will take pics and stuff and post it on here sometime this week when I play.