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View Full Version : PRAISE for GW (from me???)



Crazy Harborc
11-11-2006, 21:22
I been putting this off for several weeks now.....Time is up, I've GOT to do it, got to get this out of the way!!

Skull Pass........what you get and what you pay for it.......It's a good deal AND at a fair/DECENT price!!! Somebody at GW decided to experiment with having an intro/starter box that can really stand alone (if you like 500 or less games). Granted, it's only for two armies out of many choices. Heck, two SP boxes and you've got two 1000 point armies (time to look for regt. boxes;) ).

A very good hook, to catch newbies and or catch the eye/wallets of veteran WHFB players.

Anyway......GW did a good thing and it's actually a good deal for newbies and vets.

(Mumble, mumble.....I can't believe I did that):eek:

TCUTTER
11-11-2006, 22:54
i know its a great box my mate has one and im getting one around christmas, the only bad point is that i take ages to paint and so im thinking it will be around 2009 before i finish it

SuperJohn
11-11-2006, 23:12
I hated previous Warhammer editions but am tempted to buy the new box and play Goblins. The boss with mini-squig is ace!

diehard0123
11-11-2006, 23:16
As one of those newbies that got the BFSP set I have been very pleased with the set. My buddy who got me into WH is even thinking about getting a BFSP set for himself. I was going to go with high elves but after getting the BFSP I am going with the Dwarfs instead.

Killgore
12-11-2006, 00:11
well gw has always done starter sets (the core game boxs) for as long as i remember (i had the 5th ed one with the lizard men and bretonians for christmas once, it was well good), though the quality of the resent BFSP set is rather nice and the price tag is most affordable

Xavier
12-11-2006, 01:24
Yea, I have to admit I like it, its alot better than the battle for macragge set, of the same price...

Even I bought it, though admitedly just for the mini rulebook... (plus not wanting to wait 3+ months for the players pack)

Madgit
12-11-2006, 03:31
Gotsta chime in with the compliments for the BFSP box. I had to ask the guy at my local shop the price twice, because I did not think I heard him right the first time. It is a GREAT introductory set, and for less than the hardback rulebook.

Axel
12-11-2006, 10:10
The new box actually made it into the weekly games report in our local newspaper, with a pretty favourable comment.

Hopefully it sales well and encourages GW to go for the "larger market at lower prices" approach with some of their products.

Arhalien
12-11-2006, 10:34
Myone problem wkith the box is the dwarf models in there. They are dire! Truly dreadful. They look alomst like they've been corrupte4d by Chaos and had their armour fused to their bodies. On a plus side, the goblin models are nice.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
12-11-2006, 14:23
I think it's a stoke of marketing genius.

Since the models are fairly basic, you don't need to work too hard to put the buggers together. This has been a constant throughout GWs sets, but these ones in particular seem to have retained a good level of detail. (compare the Gobbos, to say, the Skinks from 5th Edition, or even better, the Gobbos from 4th!).

As Harborc points out, the set is a ready to play, stand alone game. The price is nicely set, and as it has more or less complete armies, you don't *need* to buy anything more for it. Of course, GW being GW, we know that it's subtley stacked to encourage more purchases, but the fact remains it can be stand alone.

If I was planing to play either army (and not Empire!) I'd almost certainly procure it, even though I bought the Gamers Edition when it came out, and already have the rulebook (in two formats. Geeky or what?).

All we can hope is that GW continue this trend. Who knows, we may even see special starting batallions available for each race, with similar contents and characters. Probably won't though. That bit was sheer conjecture!

Dr Death
12-11-2006, 15:13
I must confess i havnt bought skull pass but there is alot of good to be said about it. Putting that many models into a box was always going to be a winner despite the fact i dont actually much like the sculpts for either (the new goblins are slowly winning me round but i still prefer the older models). What i do think is a nice touch is the personalised command group for each regiment, i think that adds a real sense of class to the box. I cant say much for the terrain as no 'core' system's box has ever had decent terrain but i fully support having more and a greater variety of units from the starter box.

Dr Death

Voronwe[MQ]
12-11-2006, 16:05
The new box actually made it into the weekly games report in our local newspaper, with a pretty favourable comment.

Hopefully it sales well and encourages GW to go for the "larger market at lower prices" approach with some of their products.

Into the local newspaper? Seriously? Oh, I forgot; GW and the hobby is far more established in the United Kingdoms than in Sweden. :p

Sells well? eight different stores told me and three other mates that they wouldn't get Battle for Skull Pass in for a couple of months since it had been completely swallowed by the UK market.

gjnoronh
12-11-2006, 16:51
Seriously BFSP is selling at 70 US here and includes 100 models include a troll (15 dollars base) and some characters.
.
The sculpts aren't as good as many GW sculpts, but they are at least as good as those few companies offering minis in the $1/mini range. Personally I really like the gobbos.

Minister
12-11-2006, 17:17
Having got the freebie models from WD, I must colour myself unimpressed on the dwarf, but hte goblin I am rathe fond of. He's also actually shorter than a human, which is a nice touch of scale.

The Judge
12-11-2006, 22:40
I find a lot of people not so hot for the Dwarves... but hell is it worth it for the Gobbos alone!

Osbad
13-11-2006, 09:09
As I haven't played Fantasy since second edition, back in the late '80's I consider my self a "n00b" when it comes to this. I must admit that the "100 miniatures for £40" tag did make me prick up my ears. But somehow, still, I have resisted. The things that are causing my resistance are:

1/ Cruddy Dwarves. The arms are just mutant! And more importantly:
2/ Lack of "completeness". By which I mean I will need to buy a Dwarf of Orc/Goblin codex to get the full rules, and also the "mini" rulebook contains no scenarios! "Line up and fight" just gets sooooooo old, in any system. I need scenarios if I am ever to wish to invest in a game, and SP doesn't present them to you anywhere. I was hoping for a little booklet like came with BfM or MoM, but no. Not even anything on the net for the starter armies. Rubbish!

As it stands, it isn't a bad deal in terms of minis/£, but that's all there is. It isn't a particularly decent starter pack for a "n00b" like me as so much support is required to actually start playing properly.

To be honest, the price isn't an issue, it is the thought of painting up 100 minis (many of which are pretty "meh") all for the benefit of a mediocre and short-lived gaming experience.

The £40 I would have dumped on SP will, instead, be going on Rackham's £50 At-43 starter boxed set: I get to try a new game straight from the box, without having to assemble and paint a gazillion troops, the models look interesting, the background and support material look promising: there are scenarios! And if I don't like it I can dump it on eBay for pretty much what I paid for it.

Now *that* is a starter set!

Zzarchov
13-11-2006, 11:55
I for one, dislike the new style of gobbos, but this isn't a BFSP gripe, its the "re-imaging" of Gobbos to have giant beaks for noses. When I Play I still use my 4th ed starter gobbos and the wolf riders I bought at the time.

I also still usually play either 4th edition or 5th, and neither came with specific missions nor Army Lists (we usually build lists out of the Battle Bestiary though). I really only use it as a generic fantasy battle game though rather than warhammer specific, so it works better that way.

Axel
13-11-2006, 19:19
;1069098']Into the local newspaper? Seriously?


Indeed :cool:

You have to admit that the public awareness for a hobby were a lot of adolescents shuffle around plastic miniatures is (luckily?) dreadfully low.

I assume that HG Wells had the same problem back in his time.

Crazy Harborc
13-11-2006, 21:35
Well, I've a feeling that in HG Well's day, the men who were wargamers were made of more sturdy stock than many/most gamers today. No crawling around on a room's floor. No kneeling to lay out a length of string to measure shooting distances (Do frayed string ends shorten the length??). In Well's day, I'll bet it was not unheard of to know a gamer who sat on a bayonet or three!! These days we all normally just risk a slight prick of a finger or hand.

By the by, world wide, the majority of wargamers are adults not kids. GW services the largest single segment of wargamers, not the majority.;)

At least in this area, the scenerios were/are NOT normally used. Slap down terrain, roll for side, place troops and MOVE OUT!! The scenerios from previous editions are still out there. I guess there are scenerios in the 50 buck (or more) rules sets???

Bloodknight
13-11-2006, 22:07
I really like the BFSP set and got, together with a friend, two of them. I actually find the BFSP dwarves superior to those from the regiment boxes, gunners as well as normal HW/S dwarves. Fused detail is something that occurs even on the regiment box dwarves, look at the spot where the cloak sort of melts into their boots....

EvC
13-11-2006, 22:44
2/ Lack of "completeness". By which I mean I will need to buy a Dwarf of Orc/Goblin codex to get the full rules, and also the "mini" rulebook contains no scenarios!

And IMO, the best part, jacking up the price of Fanatics to 8, of which two or three boxes would be needed to get the most out of your Night Goblin units :D

Bael
14-11-2006, 00:55
Myone problem wkith the box is the dwarf models in there. They are dire! Truly dreadful. They look alomst like they've been corrupte4d by Chaos and had their armour fused to their bodies. On a plus side, the goblin models are nice.
The dwarf models aren't terrible IMO (well, the slayer is). I used accessories from the old and new multipart dwarf sets to make them less "flat" (pouches, shields, tankards), and it worked pretty well I think. The miners and the standard bearers look especially good. When you design models that have to be 1 piece you are limited quite a bit. I agree the goblins look a lot better though.

Crazy Harborc
14-11-2006, 21:24
And IMO, the best part, jacking up the price of Fanatics to 8, of which two or three boxes would be needed to get the most out of your Night Goblin units :D

But, but, the new ones are plastic (um, shouldn't they cost less than metal ones??):confused: Besides since they are smaller in size, why, they just have to cost more!!:confused:

Remember when the spokes people at GW told the world the new improved plastic minies would save us money, would give us more for less?? Yep, that's what the story was at the time.

gjnoronh
15-11-2006, 01:59
Right a thread about a box of 100 miniatures for 70 bucks in the context of WFB core regiments averaging 2 dollars a model and clearly the switch to increased plastics has been a failure.

Crazy Harborc I know you like Old Glory metals, but there aren't many (single piece mind you) metals that beat those prices

gOOmba
15-11-2006, 03:35
the models are horrible and that is the reason the box is so "cheap"

Yes horrible, little detail, flat, many parts just melt together (shields/arms) wow they are awful

When GW puts the models from the regiment boxes into BFSP then you can call it a deal

Osbad
15-11-2006, 09:36
Generally I hate most single-part plastic with a passion. It is only justifiable if they cost a lot less than metal alternatives then the value-for-money equations gets back in balance. Plastic troops for similar prices to metals just doesn't work for me. There's no getting away from it, away from SP, GW's prices are just totally unjustifiable. We are talking little crappy bits of lead and plastic that cost pennies to manufacture in the quantities GW produce. What you pay the premium for is the background, keeping the stores open, subsidising the website etc. Personally I prefer my little bits of lead (or plastic) without having to pay for all the overhead gubbins. Let alone Tom Kirby' champagne...

I painted up the "free" Goblin and Dwarf that came with UK WD 321. The Goblin was just about acceptable but the Dwarf was just godawful. In the UK the price is £40 for SP so that makes the models average 40p each. Frankly that is all they are worth. SP is NOT a bargain - OK it's cheap, but you're buying crappy product in the main - it *should* be cheap! Taking the car analagy - SP models are the Lada or Skoda of the miniature figures world! Certainly the Dwarves. The Goblins may be the 10-year-old Ford Escorts of ther miniature figures world...

Now, SP *would* be a bargain if they had put normal quality models in there and charged the cheaper price.

The dynamics for big vehicle kits is different, but I'm talking about the little men here.

To be honest though, the way Warhammer works, I guess quality may not matter so much - I saw some guy do units with just the outer models as whole models, the inner block was just a block of wood with heads stuck on it. On the tabletop it worked, and beat playing against a "grey horde" I guess!

With Warhammer, the aesthetic of the individual models is less important as it is only the unit that is played with not the individual troops (characters and monsters are different of course).

To be honest, that's one of the reasons I have tended to stay away from Warhammer - I like lots of nice models, I enjoy painting them. It seems an utter waste to have to chunk (say) 25 of them together and treat them as one single playing unit. Plus it just looks plain silly to have nice orderly square units of stuff like Chaos Daemons or Goblins...

One of the reasons I am more attracted to skirmish-style games generally.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
19-11-2006, 14:01
Can I just remind everyone that Battle for Skull Pass is a set for BEGINNERS in the Hobby?

As I have already stated, it contains pretty much everything (barring Glue and Paints) you need to start playing Warhammer. In terms of starting sets, this is far and away the best so far. 2 playable armies with a pleasent variety of troops.

Whether you find it good value for money, or the sculpts to your evidentally exacting standards is largely immaterial. It is a marketing tool to get new players into the Hobby. And in that respect, it's doing extremely well for itself.

gjnoronh
19-11-2006, 17:38
Exactly,

So GW stinks because they sell very high quality metal models at $4-8 per model. Because it's "overpriced" (despite costing equal to or less than other high quality competitors per model such as Privateer Press and Rackham.)

It also stinks because it sells extremely easily converted plastics that beat most companies metals at $2 per miniatures. Because there are some companies that put out low quality (sorry Old Glory fans) metals in the $1.50 range.

It also stinks because they now sell a 100 miniatures for $70 box set - that's completely optional if you want to get started with seventh edition. Because the miniatures (including heroes, a troll, scenery, and battlefield objectives!) while inexpensive aren't high quality (like their normal regiment plastics, and metals. . . )

Whoof talk about difficult to please community! Wow quality miniatures in three different price ranges that are equivalent or better in quality than other miniatures in those three price ranges. GW is clearly screwing us! Next thing they'll be creating easily combinable sets of cheap ($2/mini) models that are designed to allow us to convert interesting units or to combine multiple sets to make unique models. . .oh they are already doing that. . . whoops. Damn GW!
(Firmy tongue in cheek mind you)

Osbad
20-11-2006, 13:57
Exactly,
So GW stinks because they sell very high quality metal models at $4-8 per model. Because it's "overpriced" (despite costing equal to or less than other high quality competitors per model such as Privateer Press and Rackham.)

OK, looking at US prices (because I ripped it off another board...): Take Space Marines which cost between $3.50 and $10 per model.

Yes, tactical marines are a "good deal" at $3.50 each, but that's where the "good deal" stops. Regular scouts cost $4.00 each. Assault Marines and scouts with sniper rifles, cost $5 per model. The command squad and veteran squad come in at $7.00 per model. Devastators are $7.50 per model. Terminators of all kinds cost $10 per model. That puts the average cost for infantry at $7.36 per model.

Cygnar... Long gunners are $3.66 per model, Trenchers and Gun Mages are $4.17 per model, Sword Knights are $5 per model, and Storm Blades and Storm Guard are $6.17 per model. Averaging that out gives you $4.89 per model.

Therefore, you have a smaller price range for WARMACHINE models, a lower average for per model price, and a lower model count required for WARMACHINE over 40k. These are all based on the boxed set costs. It's actually less for the blisters in WARMACHINE where 40k blisters cost more...

In the end, you'll spend as much as you want/are willing to spend on whichever game is your preference. I can't stand the rules for 40k. While the Eldar stuff looks really cool, I look at the price that it'll cost for me to get into 40k and realise that I could buy everything in my chosen factions for the same price. I'll stick with WARMACHINE with its much cleaner rule-set, and its much lower price.


It also stinks because it sells extremely easily converted plastics that beat most companies metals at $2 per miniatures. Because there are some companies that put out low quality (sorry Old Glory fans) metals in the $1.50 range.

Because its so worth taking three weeks to stick together plastic models that still end up looking like everyone elses stuck-together pieces of plastic, and fall apart if a budgie sneezes near them. Plastic is worse, simply because its plastic. Plastic is for girls and wussies. Real men use only metal and resin models...


It also stinks because they now sell a 100 miniatures for $70 box set - that's completely optional if you want to get started with seventh edition. Because the miniatures (including heroes, a troll, scenery, and battlefield objectives!) while inexpensive aren't high quality (like their normal regiment plastics, and metals. . . )
Whoof talk about difficult to please community!

They can never seem to hit a happy medium can they? Why can't they just produce decent models for a decent price? If they released models like the regiment boxed sets but only charged SP prices I'd not be whinging. Except for Dwarves. Which GW have never got right for Warhammer. Ever.

http://members.shaw.ca/skowsa/Smilies/poke.gif

gOOmba
20-11-2006, 14:19
They can never seem to hit a happy medium can they? Why can't they just produce decent models for a decent price? If they released models like the regiment boxed sets but only charged SP prices I'd not be whinging. Except for Dwarves. Which GW have never got right for Warhammer. Ever.

What about the dwarf hanging from the black orc command's banner? :eyebrows: :D

hiram
20-11-2006, 15:49
um... the price for a skull pass box in the US is $45, at least what we charge at my shop, and that is our official GW price. If your FLGS is charging you $70 they are screwing you.

NakedFisherman
20-11-2006, 16:03
Osbad, why would you use the most expensive range of models? GW prices according to point values moreso than the number of models.

I'd also say Warmachine has a much sloppier set of rules than even 40K, but that's my opinion.

Osbad
20-11-2006, 16:20
Osbad, why would you use the most expensive range of models? GW prices according to point values moreso than the number of models.

Sorry, I don't understand the question? The query I am answering regards prices of models, for which points values are totally irrelevant. If you are taking PV's into the equation, the fact that you only need around 300 - 500 points for a "standard" game of WM compared to 1500 - 2000 for 40k blows 40's prices out of the water. Either way WM is "cheaper" - whether you look at it from the perspective of "price per model" or whether you look at it from the perspective of "overall cost of a viable standard army". If you want another pro-WM and ante-40 point, then I give you this: With WM swapping your Warcaster (a $10 model remember) will totally change the way your army plays - giving you a very varied gameplay experience. With 40k, to gain the same level of variety you have to radically alter two or three units. Or buy a whole different army altogether.

I'm not saying that WM "pwns" 40k, just that PP have learnt from some of the issues that irritated 40k players and improved on them.

Again, itisn;t just about price, it is about perceived "value for money". With WM my own feeling isone (at the minute) of general satisfaction. With GW I increasingly am getting the other sort of feeling...

As for the relative merits of WM vs 40k as a game, that's probably o/t for this thread. My opinion that WM is more "fun" is also only an opinion. Horses for courses of course!


um... the price for a skull pass box in the US is $45 That equates to £25 in the UK. Skull pass actually retails for £40 ($72ish) in the UK. Hence my not appreciating the dodginess of the models! If I could get SP for £25 over here I'd be all over it like white on rice. Orangutan-like Dwarves or no...

gjnoronh
21-11-2006, 20:14
Osbad I suspect some of our differences may reflect differential prices on alternate sides of the pond and for the different games we play. I'm mostly a WFB player - for that system GW produces 2 dollar plastics, and most metal models average out at 4 dollars per mini. Looks like for you - you are looking at space marines which I have to admit I haven't bought a single model of in about 10+ years. So that may be why we aren't coming to consensus

Here's links to actual price comparisons I've done recently

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39518&page=3
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38924&page=8
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43779
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40777&page=3

Gary

Mad Doc Grotsnik
21-11-2006, 21:03
When discussing relative pricings, please remember that the price of a model does not necessarily reflect it's value!

This is quite a complex (and much debate) subject, so I'll keep it brief.

To my mind, value depends on how much use of a given item I'm going to get. Thus, although not cheap in monetary terms, Warhammer and 40k models are good value to *me* as I tend to get an awful lot of use out of them.

There. I think that brief enough. If anyone wants to pick up on this, then there is already a thread knocking about for it.

redeye
21-11-2006, 21:15
Its the best deal GW have every come up with no wonder its popular 100 models for 40, cheaper with discount. But have to agree with other posters about the dwarfs--disgusting! who was responsible for these and how did they get past quality control?

(nasty snow white dwarfs, with funny joints and mould mistakes :( )

GW will definitely bring another box out like this probably the only thing that saved them this year, Warhammer Day was like creche control though.