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View Full Version : Clan Eshin = Underpowered?



BoosterX
04-07-2005, 19:40
I've heard they are a horrible list... I've looked at it somewhat, and it seems they have to take out opponent Characters asap...

Has anyone ever played against them, or played with them... Can you share your experiences and how would you rate them on a scale from 1 to 10 difficulty playing and playing against...

Thanks!

Ganymede
04-07-2005, 19:55
I'd say there are two basic ways to play with the Eshin Army.

The first is the all skirmisher route. While pretty unique and kitchy, its army design and execution can get a bit boring for the controller, and the army is not wholly fun to play against for the opponent. Army Design basically boils down to picking as many cool unit types as you can, then filling in the rest with loads of night runners. Execution normally involves avoiding most combat and picking off characters and weak units. Not all that cool for a wargame.

The second build for the Eshin list is very similar to the basic warlord build. It is a solid clanrat/slave army supported by loads of night runners and a triad or two. The cheap and small night runner units allow access to extra slave units, and the exceptionally high leadership characters make sure you always have LD 10 for all your ranked units, and even a respectable 7/8 LD for your skirmishers. Tack on the bonuses for killing characters, and you have a reason to not rely on scryre toys.

Me, I love having units from every clan in my army, so I play the normal list.

SlaaneshSlave
04-07-2005, 20:29
The all skirmish army is hard to run against all opponents.

Its a flavorful army; not meant to be balanced. Don't take it as your primary list, but as a fun change of pace, & all is good.

User Name
04-07-2005, 20:40
I ahve played aganst the all skirmish army and it was the most boering game I ever played( being dwarfs at the time) as said before all you do is dance around shoot and assinate charicters. I it can be very boreing to play aganst. I would rate it at 6 because it is still a neat army.

Xenageo
04-07-2005, 20:55
Imo it's not particularly underpowered, though in certain situations it'll suffer more than other equivelent lists, but it's not really very fun for your opponent to play (assuming an all skirmisher army)

Mooglemen
05-07-2005, 05:20
The clan eshin list has more than once dismantled my Tomb Kings. Skitterleap + Triad = Dead Hierophant. I dont know how they do against others, but they really hurt character dependent armies.

Ganymede
05-07-2005, 05:37
One can not skitterleap a triad.

But heck, Skitterleap an assassin into a casket of souls and you have one dead chunk of points.

Galonthar
05-07-2005, 05:59
question,...maybe stupid

whats a triad?

A friend of mine plays echin, and well (I guess its skaven) its damn boring to play against: skitterlep there, cast a few plagues (= butchers a couple of units), and skitterleap back again,... same with the assasin. that way half your army lies dead before you are even within charge range of that vermin! :skull: :skull:

Warlord Queek
05-07-2005, 08:44
A friend of mine plays echin, and well (I guess its skaven) its damn boring to play against: skitterlep there, cast a few plagues (= butchers a couple of units), and skitterleap back again,... same with the assasin. that way half your army lies dead before you are even within charge range of that vermin! :skull: :skull:
And that friend of yours didn't even have an army of eshin, just a tiny warband.

I think the Eshin list can be kinda ovewrpowered when used in combination with Thanquol. With his thirteen warpstone tokens he can skitterleap all your characters in and out of a unit again. Do this every turn and the enemy Lords and Heroes all lie dead and the rest of that army is running like hell.

It's very effective, but a little bit boring to play with. But then, there are always the clanrats and slaves!.......

I think this army list deserves an 8.5, because i like the sneaky Skaven idea. And they're pretty balanced. And, after all, your opponent has to agree with you using this list, so he musn't moan.

Cenyu
05-07-2005, 10:08
Galonthar: An Eshin triad is a trio of Skaven assassins acting as an independant skirmishing unit which can be bought as a rare choice in an Eshin list if I remember correctly.


I like the Eshin theme though I only have seen them once in a game which was a 3vs3 (2k each -> 6k vs 6k) and their sneaky, assassin aspect was not that evident. But since I have seen those beautiful Eshin conversions on the GW page I at least want to assemble and convert a little warband myself.

Kill-Kill!

Riddy
05-07-2005, 11:39
And, after all, your opponent has to agree with you using this list, so he musn't moan.

Em...actually no you dont need your opponents permission to use the SoC lists unless GW pulled a fast one and changed their minds (wouldn't surprise me)

The Eshin list is pretty well balanced and is only boring to play with and against if you make it that way, i play the army like it was a combat army that can charge headlong into the enemy and win, this usually leads to me losing but many heroic assassins have been shown in these battles.

Never will the lone, naked night runner who killed a giant after 3 rounds of combat be fogotten... :evilgrin:

Cyrush
05-07-2005, 19:43
I myself am an Eshin player and have very much enjoyed using them, it is difficult to use effectively and even harder to do battle against when used properly.

Only problem is: if your opponent plays sea patrol, donít turn up.


Never will the lone, naked night runner who killed a giant after 3 rounds of combat be forgotten...

Presuming naked means with no extra equipment, it would take six turns to kill a giant single handedly.

Cenyu
05-07-2005, 19:54
Maybe he only delivered the last wound? :)

Surviving three rounds versus a giant is remarkable.

*weeps for whole garrisons of Dark Elves smashed by drunken giants*

Warlord Queek
06-07-2005, 10:20
Maybe he only delivered the last wound? :)

Surviving three rounds versus a giant is remarkable.

*weeps for whole garrisons of Dark Elves smashed by drunken giants*
The Dark Elves don't deserve any weeping at all...
I never played against Giants and never intend to do so...
Just take care: ALWAYS SHOOT GIANTS DOWN!

Punk_in_Drublic
06-07-2005, 10:24
I saw one game with CauCaSus playing his eshin list against a noob Khorne player that had a Khorne army consisting of a chosen knight regiment, a lord, a chariot and a Chosen warrior regiment (I think that was all). That was one of the most boring matches I've ever seen.

Later,

-Punk

Warlord Queek
07-07-2005, 15:45
I saw one game with CauCaSus playing his eshin list against a noob Khorne player that had a Khorne army consisting of a chosen knight regiment, a lord, a chariot and a Chosen warrior regiment (I think that was all). That was one of the most boring matches I've ever seen.
But then, watching Newbies play is always boring, isn't it. Especially when the newbs play Chaos... :p

Nargrakhan
08-07-2005, 08:14
I have yet to personally see someone use a Clan Eshin army effectively. I've always regarded them as a "gimmick" force that's great for fluff but not winning. Still... I'm willing to accept there are people out there who could wipe the floor with me with Eshin.

Eldacar
08-07-2005, 09:05
I voted it as overpowered, but it isn't as bad as other designs that the Skaven can have. IMO, it is slightly overpowered, especially in the hands of an experienced player, but it doesn't go as far as the Bretonnian RAF or the Nuln Artillery Train does.

Riddy
08-07-2005, 09:46
Presuming naked means with no extra equipment, it would take six turns to kill a giant single handedly.

Master Assassin and 8 gutter runners vs Giant, 1st round-Master assassin causes 4 wounds (weeping blades), gutterrunners do nothing, giant yells and bawls, assassin flees, runners stay, next round, runners do 1 wound, giant jumps up and down, kills all the runners, giant charges 5 naked night runners, kills 4 and the remaining one pokes it in the eye...hehe. (Ok, so they weren't even in the original combat, but it was still 3 rounds and it was still a naked night runner vs a giant)

Mad Doc Grotsnik
08-07-2005, 19:29
It's an excellent list in my opinion, though you have to use it in a totally unique way.

Using 100% skirmishers, just circle your opponent, lobbing your throwing stars into choice regiments. NEVER engage combat unless your guaranteed to win. Assasins need to be used carefully and precisely, as ever, and your choice of Magic items is critical. When your attempting to take down Knights, Bands of Power and Throwing stars make a real mess. Mmmm....S8..... and a disposable character with Brass Orb against low I troops is funny.

Lord Gordonis
10-07-2005, 20:56
i was going to do a all skirmish eshin list, but i decided it was going to be boring putting some tails to loads of ratman lol :(, but i might go back do it sometime

Nazguire
10-07-2005, 23:15
To me the list seems to be one of several problems.


It can't stand up to a charge from anything remotely harder than a soft breeze if you go the all skirmisher route, not including its characters. Which is all good and fine for a while, until you realise that Beastmen are beating your Night Runners in close combat and that Wood Elf Glade Guard (current) and can defeat you with little effort.

It is extremely dependent on Eshin Skitterleap to get those extra VP's for killing characters and as a result, extremely dependent on characters, reiterating the fears that some armies are turning into Herohammer.


and finally


In order to play with a chance of surviving you have to hit and run. Every time. Hit fast with your Lords, Heroes, Triad and Tunnel Teams, while peppering everything to death with throwing stars and slings before fleeing from a charge only to rinse and repeat. Boring for you and your opponent.

Gazak Blacktoof
11-07-2005, 10:39
I've been reading the loathsome ratmen book and if you play according to the background as preseneted there for the clans it should be a serviceable and fun army to use. The backbone of any skaven force is supposed to include a decent number of clanrat warriors and slaves regardless of what clan you are using. Obvious exceptions can be made when fighting small scale scenarios, but in a 2000 point force an army is unlikely to consist entirely of night runners and gutter runners with a few assassins thrown in.

If you give your enemy something to aim for (ranked infantry) you get a more interesting game as well. An all skirmisher army instead reults in your forces dancing round your opponent's troops with little risk to themselves (compounded by the night fight rules) which results in a terribly boring game.

I had to vote for overpowered because that best fit what I feel the army is like. I would have prefered the option of unbalanced or unhinged (as in what was the designer smoking) but unfortunately that wasn't an option.

The list can be great fun but I feel its certainly wide open to abuse in the same vein as the tzeentch daemon list and the brettonian army list. The games designers knew they had to fix the woodelves to make them fun for both players but at the same time made 3 lists which are abusable in a near identical fashion, somebody clearly wasn't paying attention.