PDA

View Full Version : BFG - Squadrons



Da Reddaneks
12-11-2006, 23:33
i have read the rules on putting groups of ships into squadrons but there does not seem to be any significant advantage to being in a squadron. I am sure i am missing something, so please fill me in. Why would i want to run five Ork Onslaught Escorts in a one fleet instead of having five seperate ships?

(and i am a total newbie at BFG so forgive if the question is too elementary)

Melchor
12-11-2006, 23:35
If I remember correctly, you can put the whole squadron on special orders with one Leadership test.

Don't take my word for it though, as the last time I've seen the BFG rules was years ago. ;)

FuriosoShadow
13-11-2006, 01:26
You can use the highest Ld in the squadron for Ld tests, and one test makes the entire squadron pass. Also, it lets you mass guns/turrets/ordnance, which is more helpful if you need more turret rolls, more battery rolls, more torpedoes in a salvo, etc...

Jedi152
13-11-2006, 08:44
Yes, squadrons are excellent for escorts to mass their torpedo's and/or firepower into a single salvo, and like FuriosoShadow said, it allows you to to give them a single special order, and take a single leadership test for it.

Minister
13-11-2006, 11:48
Also, escorts are required to opperate in squadrons, in the same way as units in 40K.

Capital ships get the advantage of using the highest leadership in the squadron, allowing them to compensate for a bad roll (and shielding them from leadership loss if ships are crippled).

Da Reddaneks
13-11-2006, 17:36
I readily admit that i am a newbie to BFG so please be aware that i am not trying to ask over elementary questions. I have only played a few game and am still in the learning the rules part. The rules i am learning are the basic and advanced rules that are downloadable from the GW specialist games website HERE (http://www.specialist-games.com/battlefleetgothic/rulebook.asp).

I dont see anywhere in these rules where it says that escorts must operate in squadrons. Secondly, if am reading the weapons chart i dont see how being in a squadron has anything to do with helping the firepower of "guns." i see where the rules address squadrons and torpedos as well as for turrents but not for regular guns.

I will take no offense at all if someone points out to me the rule(s) i allegedly have over looked.

Blagrot Squigbreff
13-11-2006, 18:02
Hi
The rule stating Escorts must be formed into squardrons is on pg105 under 'forming up the fleet' (it's in part 5 for the online rulebook - ships of gothic), it took me about ten minutes to find it tho;) .

The other squadron rules should be on pg37 onwards (in part 2), the note about combining firepower is on pg38 in the bottom right.

Hope this helps and BTW Brute Ramships in formation are great fun:evilgrin: .

Xisor
13-11-2006, 18:04
I can't point to the precise rules offhand, but as I'm pretty sure the case is:

'Greater than the sum of their parts' essentially highlights the benefit of firing WBs together in a Squadron. Listed, I believe, under the Advanced Rules it should deal with 'firing with Squadrons' and ideally be covered in there. A Fp12 volley is often superior to two Fp6s, IIRC.

In terms of Escorts operating in Squadrons. It is either in the squadroning rules, or just where it describes the fleet lists. It details that Cruisers, Battleships and Escorts all come in different sized formations. Capital Ships can go it alone, but Escorts are at minimum a pair.

In fact, I'm pretty sure it's just before the fleet lists/ship stats.

Good to see you're getting into the game! Getting all the rules spot on takes a while, but once you've got them you rarely need to worry about anything. I overlooked the effects of failing a Command Check for a year and a half, for instance, and it's on of the first rules detailed in the book!

Da Reddaneks
13-11-2006, 19:47
Hi
The rule stating Escorts must be formed into squardrons is on pg105 under 'forming up the fleet' (it's in part 5 for the online rulebook - ships of gothic), it took me about ten minutes to find it tho;) .

The other squadron rules should be on pg37 onwards (in part 2), the note about combining firepower is on pg38 in the bottom right.
ahhh, thanks a heap Squigbreff. (and as an asside, i must commend you on your nom de guerre. that is a marvelously orky name.) that explains why i didnt see the rule. because i was reading the advanced and basic rules and its not in there. Well, i feel better that i didnt overlook something terriably obvious.

i am very pleased that you pointed out that rule for me as i also didnt know i had to have a warlord in a fleet of 750 points or more.

Anyway, on to next squadron quesion. I have heard players say use squadrons of 3 or 5 and not to use even numbers in a squadron. is there any rational for this and if so what is it?

Blagrot Squigbreff
13-11-2006, 21:31
Anyway, on to next squadron quesion. I have heard players say use squadrons of 3 or 5 and not to use even numbers in a squadron. is there any rational for this and if so what is it?

It's from the VP system that alot of people use where a squadron must be reduced to half strength before it gives up any VP's - i.e 2 dead from a squadron of 4 gives away VP's but a squadron of 5 needs to lose 3. I can't find it in the online rules tho, so it was likely added in a WD article - it does make escorts are slightly more attractive idea IMO.


i must commend you on your nom de guerre. that is a marvelously orky name.

Thanks, it's been my Warlords name for about 14 years and he's still going strong:D .

FuriosoShadow
14-11-2006, 00:25
Well, that's with escorts, where it is true. It doesn't matter with Capital Ships, because each ship gives individual victory points.

fracas
14-11-2006, 03:22
regarding VPs, 2 out of 4 is not "below" half btw (not sure how the rules actually read, will confirm later)
and the advantage VPs wise is that in a squadron of 4, you would have to lose 3 ships before losing any VPs, but if they were solo, each ship losts = VP lost

the thing about squadron is that it also enhances their batteries and torpedoes
when a you shoot all your batteries weapons at once, any blast markers do not negatively modify the shot as it would if each ship shoots one at a time. (thus a correlary is always shoot batteries before lances)
similar with torpedoes. the defender gets to use his turret defense against each attacking wave. massing them into one wave makes them more likely to penetrate the turret defense. (another interesting note is that turrets of a ship must choose to either defend against torpedoes or bombers, thus attacking a ship with both a torpedo wave and a bomber wave works best)

finally there is that thing about leadership test, one for the whole squadron, for special orders

FuriosoShadow
14-11-2006, 04:19
So, someone's just blowing smoke when talking about squadron VPs...

Taken from page 66 of the Big Blue Book:

"Each destroyed escort ship earns a player a number of victory points equal to the vessel's points value."

-Capital ships are worth full points if destroyed, 25% if crippled, 25% if crippled and disengaged, 10% if disengaged and not crippled

One doesn't need to worry about crippling an escort squadron, because you simply gain points based on the number of ships you destroyed from the squadron.

So VPs have nothing to do with even/odd numbers.

Blagrot Squigbreff
14-11-2006, 10:23
Taken from page 66 of the Big Blue Book:
"Each destroyed escort ship earns a player a number of victory points equal to the vessel's points value."


Hence my statement that I couldn't find it in the rules but I've been to several events that use the system.


regarding VPs, 2 out of 4 is not "below" half btw (not sure how the rules actually read, will confirm later)

That's why I'm fairly sure that it is reduced to half strength instead of below half strength, otherwise people would be advocating even sized squadrons.
I should be honest and say that our group doesn't use that VP system so I haven't played with it for about a year and can't remember where it came from tho there were a few WD articles and an annual so it's likely from one of them.

orangesm
14-11-2006, 15:29
I am also fairly certain that in the case of Escort squadrons at least... all the escorts shields drop before damage is taken... I may just be off there...

Da Reddaneks
14-11-2006, 16:06
I am also fairly certain that in the case of Escort squadrons at least... all the escorts shields drop before damage is taken... I may just be off there...
i have not read that rule. if anyone else knows anything else about that rule for squadrons i would appreciate it being pointed out. the shooting at squadron rule is on page 38 says something other than that. if someone knows something to the opposite please let me know.

Blagrot Squigbreff
14-11-2006, 16:14
I knew I'd seen the rule about Escort Squadron VP's being changed it's in the Errata/FAQ on the Specialist games site:) - that's been bugging me.
The rule Orangesm mentioned about ships massing shields is not in there but requires the ships to be in base contact as does massing turrets and is presumably in the Annual (2002 I think) otherwise pg 38 is pretty clear.


PS: If anybody can tell me where the updated rules are (other than the annual), it would be appreciated cos I know I've read them but can't find them.

ReDavide
14-11-2006, 20:13
I am also fairly certain that in the case of Escort squadrons at least... all the escorts shields drop before damage is taken... I may just be off there...

Nope. "When a squadron is fired upon, any hits scored are allocated to the nearest eligible ship in the squadron until it is destroyed, then the next nearest eligible ship take the remaining hits & so on." (pg. 38, blue book).

I've never seen an update to that rule.

It does highlight another advantage of taking a squadron though - if you have a ship that you must protect at all costs - either because it's very expensive or because it's nearly crippled - you can just put it to the rear of the squadron and it will be protected from most weaponry.

orangesm
14-11-2006, 21:56
So here is a follow on - what if the squadron are all equally close in proximity to the shooter? If I remember right the squadron was normally targeted not each individual ship.

fracas
14-11-2006, 22:49
sorry about the squadron VP allocation. it is indeed per escort lost.


regarding being targetted, the squadron is targetted but the hits are applied to a single ship. i am not sure whether it is practical to move a ship toward the back as most escorts have only one shield and one hit. the shields are automatically renewed thus there is no reason to move it back.

Getz
14-11-2006, 23:10
Of course, the big drawback to squadroning - especially with capital ships - is that all of your ships will brace togther, even though only one will be taking hits...

ReDavide
15-11-2006, 00:09
regarding being targetted, the squadron is targetted but the hits are applied to a single ship. i am not sure whether it is practical to move a ship toward the back as most escorts have only one shield and one hit. the shields are automatically renewed thus there is no reason to move it back.

I was thinking more about squadrons of capital ships, or mixed units of escorts where one is more expensive than the others (say an Aconite or Hellebore in a squad of Hemlocks).

Shinnentai
15-11-2006, 19:45
Of course, the big drawback to squadroning - especially with capital ships - is that all of your ships will brace togther, even though only one will be taking hits...
Absolutely - although to be honest I operate a houserule whereby tests to brace are made on a ship-by-ship basis for capital ships in squadrons. Then in the next turn any ships in the squadron that braced do not gain any benefit from special orders that the squadron goes on.