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Ratchet
13-11-2006, 12:17
Hi,

With my DKoK army suitably crushed by the wrath of the missus ("so you mean to tell me you spent all that money at games day on eldar and your not going to use it!") im going to build an assault based Eldar army instead.

I dont know a lot about eldar, so what kind of thing will i need?

im thinking a unit of striking scorpians, and 2 units of howling banshees. backed up by a wraithlord with the sword thing (or two or three), and maybe some storm guardians.

any advice/ideas?

Inq. Veltane
13-11-2006, 12:23
Serpents. Lots of Serpents.

I'd also suggest Avengers over Storm Guardians. The Avengers are pretty much as good in an assault and are a lot more flexible as well.

BloodiedSword
13-11-2006, 12:39
I'd rather base an assault army around Scorpions than Banshees. Scorpions are only slightly less effective against MEqs than Banshees, and vastly better against any other troops.

The Exarch with the Executioner is the only real reason to use Banshees at all IMO, and even then she lacks the versatility of the Scorpion Exarch with Scorpions Claw.

I'll second the suggestion about serpents and DA. DA in particular - that WS 4 and I5 makes a massive difference.

Shadow Lord
13-11-2006, 12:49
Small troops of Storm Guardians with either 2 flamers/2 fusion guns are cheap and nasty. 2 squads of DA's to complement in WS. Throw in a couple of Shining Spears and 2 squads of Striking Scorps and you're already halfway there. An Avatar makes every troop within 12" Fearless so your troops have more chances ofholding up the enemy. Take 2 Wraithlords each armes with flamers and a brightlance followed by 3 warlocks on a jetbike. Put a Farseer on a bike as well and give him Doom/Fortune and a Singing Spear!!
Just my 2/5 cents (depending on where you live:D)

Death Before Dishonour
13-11-2006, 13:05
Hi,

With my DKoK army suitably crushed by the wrath of the missus ("so you mean to tell me you spent all that money at games day on eldar and your not going to use it!") im going to build an assault based Eldar army instead.

I dont know a lot about eldar, so what kind of thing will i need?

im thinking a unit of striking scorpians, and 2 units of howling banshees. backed up by a wraithlord with the sword thing (or two or three), and maybe some storm guardians.

any advice/ideas?

I'm doing a similar thing but am having, Avatar, 1 unit howling, 2 Wraithlords, Tooled up farseer and warlock bodyguard, and harlequins when they come out. The rest I plan to have as a static firing line

Tigerguy
13-11-2006, 18:19
Shouldn't this be in the Tactics/Armylist thread?

Anyway...

Harlequins. Expensive in points, but nasty. 2 squads of harlequins (6 man squads with kisses, 2 fusion pistols and a Shadowseer), a full squad of Banshees in a serpent, a couple of maxed Dire Avenger squads. I know the DA seem more shooty, but they are okay in assault, especially with a tooled-up Exarch. A Farseer for the Fortune/Doom combo and couple of Wraithlords with Brightlances (for anti-armour) should do you okay. That actually comes out to about 1500 points.

Karhedron
13-11-2006, 20:38
I play very "in your face" assaulty Eldar and it can be quite fun although it tends to be a bit fragile. Aspect Warriors work best as they have a good balance between toughness and hitting power as well as the mobility to get to the enemy fast.

My usual list includes Banshees and Fire Dragons in transports as well as a squad of infiltrating Scorpions. Dire Avengers are a good Troop choice in this army although Guardian defenders and Rangers can both offer some valuable supporting fire which this sort of army tends to lack. I would no bother with Storm Guardians myself as I don't feel they have enough punch.

For Fast attack I like Shining Spears and Warp Spiders with Vypers providing some mobile heavy weapons fire. From the heavy section, Falcons are excellent as they provide some good heavy weapons fire and also some transport capacity (best used with a small squad of Fire Dragons). Fire Prisms also provide some awesome firepower.

For HQs you are spoilt for choice as Autarchs, Farseers and Phoenix Lords can all ride in Transports and lend their own style of support where it is most needed. Personally I would probably opt for an Autarch. The +1 to reserve rolls is very handy as a lot of this army will start off in reserve if you are playing Escalation. Put him on a Jetbike, give him a laser lance and have him join the Shining Spear squad as you can get up to 6 S6 power weapon attacks on the charge as well as +1 Toughness. :evilgrin:

Wraithlords are probably a bit too slow for an army intended to hurtle towards the enemy. They work better in a more static army to anchor your gunline and provide counter-charge punch.

Below is a rough idea of a list. This will probably come to nearly 2000 points.

HQ: Autarch with Jetbike, laser lance and Mandiblaster.

Elite: 10 Banshees led by and Exarch with Executioner. Wave Serpent with Spirit Stones and Vectored Engines.
Elite: 10 Striking Scorpions led by an Exarch with Scorpion's Claw, Stalker and Shadow Strike.
Elite: 6 Fire Dragons led by an Exarch with Dragon's breath flamer, Tank Hunter and crack shot.

Troops: 10 Dire Avengers led by an Exarch with Power weapon, Shimmershield and Defend.
Troops: 10 Guardian Defenders with heavy weapon (your choice) and led by a Warlock with Conceal.
Troops: 5 Rangers (upgrade to Pathfinders if you can spare the points)

Fast: 5 Shining Spears led by an Exarch with Star Lance and Withdraw.
Fast: 6 Warp Spiders led by an Exarch with dual webspinners, power blades and Withdraw.
Fast: 2 Vypers with heavy weapons (your choice)

Heavy: Falcon with Spirit Stones and Vectored Engines (put the Fire Dragons in here for a ride)
Heavy: Fire Prism with spirit Stones and Vectored Engines.

Iron Buddha
13-11-2006, 21:01
Im using a slow army that hits hard currently, lead by an avatar (somtimes with a secondary HQ choice), then banshees and firedragons (2 squads of one depending on the opponent). pathfinders and dire avengers for troops (you wouldnt believe the psycological effect that rangers/pathfinders have on some opponents*). any of the aspects for fast attack (they are all excellent choices) then 1-2 wraithlords with reapers filling the other choice(s).

* i once had a tau opponent who spent his entire first round of shooting on one squad of rangers only to not kill them and he had shot just about everything at them. which eneded up losing him the game.

[SD] Bob Plisskin
13-11-2006, 21:30
The main tactic to remember with eldar is that their units are extremely specialised in combatting certain types of foes, this means you need the mobility to get the right units to the right fight.

unless you are planning on letting the enemy come to you (which I think you are not since this you dont want a shooty - gun line list) you need transports. Wraithlords unless supported by a unit of guard with warlock are too hit and miss for my liking with the wraithsight rule and if on their own are too slow to keep up with the rest of the army and will be singled out and destroyed very quickly.

For this reason I suggest mounting all aspect warriors in waveserpents and using some vypers for mobile fire support (dual shuriken cannon vypers are nice and cheap for this).

hope I helped

Farseer
13-11-2006, 22:46
2 unit of Harlies (one full, one of only 6), 1 scorpions, 1 Shining spears with shining spear Autarch, maybe warp spiders too, they can be good, 2 wraithlords, 1 falcon (for the harlies and for some fire support), I'd say take rangers for troops...theyre no assault team, but you will need some fire on your back. And take an Avatar...Although it never worked for me, but I love it:DD

The Old Scholar
14-11-2006, 05:36
Ratchet,
What did you get at Gamesday?
I think in many ways you answered your question in your post. You mentioned the two staple elite close combat units of the Eldar as well as one of the mightiest single units in the game, the Wraithlord.
Everyone here has made some great suggestions so it's hard for me to add to this post without knowing what you have. As the game is more about the hobby itself than the actual game--follow?--it's more up to you what you think looks cool and what you'll enjoy painting the most.

As stated above, Wraithlords are cool and all, but Wraithsight will force you to have at least one Warlock upgraded to a Spiritseer somewhere nearby.
You could go the Ulthwe route, take Eldrad with a Warlock bodyguard, throw in the Wraithguard with a Spiritseer, add a pair of Wraithlords as flanking escort, take a couple of units of Storm Guardians as they are armed for hand-to-hand, then take the Avatar as he is the best hand-to-hand warrior in the Eldar list or Maugan-Ra who assists Ulthwe during the Eye of Terror campaign. He can move forward and shoot rending pinning shots at 36" range five times a round. He's a beast in hand-to-hand as well. But remember, these suggestions are more for a fun list, not necessarily a winning one: Storm Guardians are fragile, and without enough of them you might lose games because you lack scoring units, and Wraithlords are magnets for shooting, slow and easily avoided--but make up for this in other ways....
I don't know, now I'm repeating the others. Let me know what you bought and this will be easier. Good luck with the Missus! Cheers.

Farseer
14-11-2006, 08:23
Wraithlord only needs a psyker, the dex doesnt say he needs a spiritseer.

Shadow Lord
14-11-2006, 08:32
True, but for *pts you can have 12" wraithsight (6"more then normal, thus giving your Spiritseer more area of influence).

Delicious Soy
14-11-2006, 11:01
I'd go with the gist of Karhedron's advice. This sort of army is going to either need long range fire support or fast assault units. Wraithlords don't really fit into it as you really need the enemy to meet you half way for it. If you were to take one I wouldn't worry about the Wraithblade, just get to heavy weapons as any assault concerns would be secondary.

War Walkers would be good as you've got plenty of other targets for your opponent to worry about. Other than that fast heavy weapons (Jetbikes w/shuriken cannons or Vypers) or death jesters in Harlequin squads are your best bet.

Ratchet
14-11-2006, 11:16
Ratchet,
What did you get at Gamesday?

I got a wraithlord, an aurtarch, 2 boxes of dire avengers, a box of gaurdians and 2 weapons platforms.

jubilex
14-11-2006, 11:31
Why does no-one seem to use support batteries? I played Blood Angels on sunday using the new dex for the first time. He was using a scary looking terminator heavy army, motorised and lots of jump packs (librarian+honour guard/chaplain+d comp/assault marines), 33 jumpers in all. This speed freak of an army would have been on me on turn two, but to approach with minimal losses, he came on behind a large terrain feature, in the dead ground. Thats what my d cannons were there for. Two turns of firing and the assault squad were gone, the honour guard were forced out into blade storms aplenty. The death company too were foced away into the reapers and 3 twin starcannoned war wobblers. It was absolute carnage. Out of 3000pnts, he had Charlie the Chaplain, 3 termies and 3 scouts left. My losses were minimal. If I hadn't had those d cannons, I would have been swamped. Don't overlook them, they are great pieces of kit.

Shadow Lord
14-11-2006, 12:59
I have thought about using them, but as no one else has already played them on a regular basis I was kinda worried that they wouldn't as good. Glad that is sorted now...:D.
D-cannons it is then!

Gimp
14-11-2006, 13:14
An avatar backed up by some wraithlords can hurt your enemy.

Shadow Lord
14-11-2006, 13:20
But you have to invest in warlocks/spiritseers/farseer to be sure of your Wraithlords from now on. 1 Pieplate from a basilisk on the mentioned seers and your lords ain't going to be doing much. Maybe it's worth taking but it's going to be a very costly unit where everybody is going to stay away from, except asscannon-wielding/rending/ other saves-ignoring thingies...:p

Smokedog
21-03-2007, 13:20
I will be testing out a close combat orientating army in the next few days..

The last one I used Had Shinning spears, harlequins and direavengers as the assault troops.

They all worked nicely agasint the necrons, except the direavengers. My plan for them failed, but I think it could be effective..

...Has anyone treid full dire squad, zoom 24" then next turn uload them, bladestorm a squad and then charge... this obvioulsy works better with DOOM!

But this is how I see myself using direavengers the future.

Has anyone esle tried this

(Ps. Very shortly I should have a battle report of the preious battle)

Cae
21-03-2007, 13:27
Try a squad of Harlies (they dont need transportation), Scorpions with Infiltrate and maybe 2 Prisms and 3WW to fire support...you will want to soft the enemy unit you assault!

Cheers!

Midknightwraith
21-03-2007, 16:43
I will add some information for D-Cannons. They are great, but did take a signifigant drop in power from 3rd to 4th. They are very short ranged (especially for heavy weapons). This means you need to set them up as near center of your formation as possible (to maximise the area they threaten), preferably in or behind some 4+/5+ terrain. Also don't be afraid to move them on first turn to a better position, against many opponents I find moving the D-Cannons is a better proposition than getting to fire them on turn 1, even if I have a juicy target in range. Also don't be overly concerned if you don't have a lot to fire at over the course of a game, and don't spend time moving them even if you don't have a target. Many opponents will avoid them and end up splitting their forces to do so (if you've set them up to control the center of the board). This gives you the opportunity to destroy your opponents forces piecemeal, a much easier task.

Problems and perils when using D-Cannons: They are slow, especially by Eldar standards (6" move or fire, no fleet) and vulnerable (even maxed out the unit is only 10 models, including the guns! and are of the weakest type in the Eldar list). Using them effectively means two things 1) After terrain is set up know where you are going to want them for most of the game 3-4 turns, and set them up so they can get there by end of turn 1, then leave them their. Do not attempt to chase units around the board with these! Everything in the game is just as fast as you are, if not faster. 2) Do not abandon this unit. I do not mean baby sit it with something good. Rather, I mean make sure that there is always a unit interposing itself so that opponents at least have to test to shoot your D-Cannons. My personal favorite is guardians of either type (depending on opponent) for close support, while my more mobile units engage enemies at a distance.

OP - You indicated you wanted an assault type army. The problem is that D-Cannons are a much better unit in the Gun-Line style army. They are good, but you are not going to be assaulting much with them.

I'll post a balanced but more killy orriented list
Banshees x10 Exarch MirrorBlades add powers AYD (at your discretion)
Scorpions x10 Exarch Claw (any of the kits are good, tho) powers AYD
WraithGuard x5 Seer (Enhance) WaveSerpent
Jetbikes x6/x7+Seer(w/Spear) 2xCannons
Jetbikes x6/x7+Seer(w/Spear) 2xCannons
WarpSpiders x10 Exarch all the trimmings
HQ of your choice

Total around 1500 pts. If you pass on the Warlocks in the Jet bikes and don't go crazy with your HQ or upgrades you should be able to afford another Wave Serpent (for the Banshees) and a FirePrism (or two FirePrisms, letting the Banshees hoof it) to help out with fast heavy guns.

But given what you have to start with you have a more Gun Line/Balanced style army, so I might as well post one of those based on what you have.


I got a wraithlord, an aurtarch, 2 boxes of dire avengers, a box of gaurdians and 2 weapons platforms.

Basis of the Gunline
WraithLord
Avatar
Guardians x13 with GunPlatform and Warlock x2
D-Cannons x3 warlock + conceal

Total around 750 points

To make this work you now need some fast heavy hitters
Banshees x10
Spiders x10
Avengers x10

1x WaveSerpent

Either a 2nd Wave Serpent or a Falcon/FirePrism

My optimal load out would replace the Avengers with FireDragons x6 + Falcon, but I wanted to use what you had as much as possible. Another alternative is to replace one of the Guardian Squads with Dire Avengers and go get some Fire Dragons.

This army is very shooty, and you need to protect you fast elements as much as you can. Don't waste them, They are the anvil that puts the enemy into the path of the hammer (your gunline) without them many opponents will be able to flank you and roll you up, so be careful.