PDA

View Full Version : squig hopper movement?



madden
13-11-2006, 13:03
Hi all just a clarification needed on squige hopper movement,
Do you roll for direction for the unit or for EACH squig hopper?
as this is not set out in the book help would be nice thanks.:confused:

T10
13-11-2006, 13:10
Which option do you believe is the more practical?

Edit:

Models in a unit of skirmishers need to be within 1" of each other. Rolling for each 'hopper separately will quickly result in this requirement being broken. Rolling once for the unit as a whole ensures that this will not be the case.

-T10

madden
13-11-2006, 13:22
edit

sorry not the direction of the unit but the distance moved as it might break the 1 inch apart for being skirmishers so i think it is once but not sure, thanks.:confused:

Avian
13-11-2006, 13:31
I cannot recall a single example anywhere in the game when a unit with random movement rolls for movement one model at a time. There is thus no precedent for rolling one model at a time and that should be enough to make you roll once per unit when it is not explicitly stated one way or the other.

Atrahasis
13-11-2006, 16:35
I cannot recall a single example anywhere in the game when a unit with random movement rolls for movement one model at a time. There is thus no precedent for rolling one model at a time and that should be enough to make you roll once per unit when it is not explicitly stated one way or the other.

There is no other unit in the game that consists of multiple models and has a random movement statistic, so searhcing for precedents is a pointless exercise.

Units move at the pace of the slowest model, so it can be argued that each model must roll and the entire unit moves at the slowest pace.

woytek
13-11-2006, 18:44
Units move at the pace of the slowest model, so it can be argued that each model must roll and the entire unit moves at the slowest pace.

No, since units move at the slowest pace in the stat line. Since the lowest pace is 3D6 you will just roll once for the whole unit.

DeathlessDraich
13-11-2006, 19:15
Here we go again:D

Squig Hoppers are Skirmishers.

The basis of Atrahasis' unique interpretation is this rule:

pg 65; " The unit does not turn or wheel etc and each model is free to move in any direction without penalty."

but the last sentence states:
"...must form a loose group or line with models no more than 1" apart"

If the player wishes to maintain the 'shape' of the loose skirmisher formation as the SH moves, then a single 3D6 roll is sufficient.

If however the player wishes to change the 'shape' of the skirmisher formation (e.g. from a box shape to a long line), then technically speaking Atrahasis is right since every Squig Hopper must move the full 3D6" ("always moves 3D6""). However to insist on this AND maintain the 1" separation will probably take all night to resolve and for small SH units probably impossible!

Personally I'd prefer to allow some leeway and allow an O&G player to change the 'shape' of the loose skirmisher formation provided no single SH moves more than the single 3D6 roll.

Festus
13-11-2006, 19:38
Hi

Just a question: This discussion is purely academic, right?

Ad usum delphini, so to say, as noone in their right mind would roll for each and every Squig Hopper anyways...

Festus

T10
13-11-2006, 21:14
Units move at the pace of the slowest model, so it can be argued that each model must roll and the entire unit moves at the slowest pace.

The 'hoppers "always" move 3d6", which I cannot see meaning anything else than the "the distance rolled".

Argument dismissed.

-T10

Atrahasis
13-11-2006, 21:24
The 'hoppers "always" move 3d6", which I cannot see meaning anything else than the "the distance rolled".They don't "always" move 3d6" at all. The rules say it, but it simply isn't true.

Milgram
14-11-2006, 06:49
yes, there are exceptions given in the rules: they move into impassable terrain or into enemy units. and before you say something - this rule only applies to the compulsory movement phase, animosity movement and waaagh-movement are in different parts of the turn.

(which leaves us with the issues of friendly units and speed/slow spells.)

T10
14-11-2006, 08:09
They don't "always" move 3d6" at all. The rules say it, but it simply isn't true.

How so?

-T10

greenskin
14-11-2006, 21:06
T10, Like when they run into an opposing unit. They stop and count as having charged.

Avian
15-11-2006, 14:54
Or when they are already engaged in close combat...

woytek
15-11-2006, 19:15
But those are exceptions as listed...not a valid argument for your point

Atrahasis
15-11-2006, 21:43
But those are exceptions as listed...not a valid argument for your point

If impassable terrain (not listed under the Squig Hopper rules as an exception IIRC) is an exception, then maintenace of unit cohesion is also an exception.

If "always" only means "sometimes" then it has no authority at all.

lanrak
15-11-2006, 22:30
In the 6th ed rules the squig hoppers were part of the squig herds and purchased individualy.
A bit like the fanatics in standard Night goblin units.

In 6th ed the SH WERE moved individualy ,and 'bounced ',(hopefully) onto enemy units ,attacked and bounced off again.

So it is understandable that a gamer who used SH in 6th ed might think that they were still moved as individual models.(There is nothing clearly writen under the squig hopper entry, to say this no longer applies.)

(Taking the 'skirmish' formation simply as models not in BTB contact with other members of its unit.Normal skirmishers have a set M value.So variable M value could be interprited as overuling the 'set distance' between skirmishers.)

So to determine the actual way a special unit/character/item is used in the game.You have to find compare annalise and prioritise all rules that apply or could affect the unit/character/item.
And still not get the intended use the dev team invisioned.

GW devs continue to streamline the rules for WH.

But due to the ambiguios way the rules are written,how a gamer uses these units,characters /items etc, is dependant on what rules and emphasis on the rules an individual player selects

No wonder there are so many questions and debates about rules....

T10
16-11-2006, 09:12
The fact remains that rolling for the unit as a whole is perfectly straight forward, but rolling for each model individually requires you to infer a number of additional procedures.

-T10

woytek
16-11-2006, 15:10
The fact remains that rolling for the unit as a whole is perfectly straight forward, but rolling for each model individually requires you to infer a number of additional procedures.

-T10

that and, last time i will type it out, they also use the rule of the lowest movement. Except with squig hoppers the lowest value is a variable, which means that 3D6 is the lowest and thus the one to roll. Not for every model since the unit has movement of 3D6.

Atrahasis
16-11-2006, 18:01
Not for every model since the unit has movement of 3D6.Models have profiles, not units.

Festus
16-11-2006, 19:13
Hi

I don't know about you guys and the English version, but the German one is pretty clear: If the result (nb: singular) of the roll (nb: singular again) gets the Squig Hoppers (nb: plural) into contact with an enemy unit...

Festus

T10
17-11-2006, 07:16
Models have profiles, not units.

True.

However, woytek does have a point in that each model has the same dice code as a movement value.


The Movement value dictates which model is the faster/slower in the unit. Each 'hopper model has the same movement value (or rather: dice code).
The roll determines how far they move or the model moves, depending on how you implement the dice rolling procedure. The result of the dice roll, however, is not the unit's Movement value.


-T10

woytek
18-11-2006, 12:03
Models have profiles, not units.

rephrase: Not for every model since the unit has lowest movement of 3D6.

madden
18-11-2006, 19:31
thanks thought that was the case woytek but as mentioned earlyer old ed each was seperate. cheers for the help.