PDA

View Full Version : Chimera's, what weapons come with it?



Vaktathi
14-11-2006, 16:22
Hey all, I'm just wondering, what weapons does the IG Chimera kit come with besides the hull heavy bolter and the turret multilaser? does it come with the bits for the turret heavy bolter and/or flamer as well? Or do those need to be bought seperatley if you wish to equip your chimera with such weapons?

also, is it worth it to swap the weapons or is the multilaser generally viewed as being a decent weapon if you are using a heavy bolter in the hull?

thanks!

Kriegsherr
14-11-2006, 16:29
Hey all, I'm just wondering, what weapons does the IG Chimera kit come with besides the hull heavy bolter and the turret multilaser? does it come with the bits for the turret heavy bolter and/or flamer as well? Or do those need to be bought seperatley if you wish to equip your chimera with such weapons?

also, is it worth it to swap the weapons or is the multilaser generally viewed as being a decent weapon if you are using a heavy bolter in the hull?

thanks!

It only comes with a turret multi laser and a hull HB, and a Heavy flamer in the accesory sprue to swap the HB for it.

The multi laser is a damn fine weapon if you ask me, deadly against light infantry and light to medium vehicles, and a very good range would make me prefer it over the turret HB anyday.... especially in city fights were armour saves are traded for cover saves most of the time anyway

Heavy Flamer are a very good equip especially if you use two in CoD though...

Carnelian
14-11-2006, 16:31
Not sure which weapons it comes with as I haven't opened my box yet but I think on the box it shows heavy flamer, multilaser and heavy bolter options and I'd be damned suprised if it didn't have these. Heavy Flamer is generally the least useful because you can't then use the chimera as long ranged support, but it can work wonders in certain armies.
Heavy bolter is probably the best because it is ap 4, but it depends who you are up against. Against marines Multilaser is better - especially if there are lots of speeders.
Don't forget to give it pintlemounted heavy stubbers if you are playing IG, and take at least three in a 1.5k army or they will all die.

EDIT: Are you sure it doesn't come with two Heavy bolters? That is rubbish!

Gaebriel
14-11-2006, 16:32
The Chimera (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99120105013&orignav=10) comes with a Multilaser for the turret and a choice of Heavy bolter/Heavy flamer for the hull. In addition the set includes the six passenger lasguns and a choice of Storm bolter or Heavy stubber.

All other options are only available through Forge world or must be converted.

I personally like the Heavy bolter turret better than the Multilaser, or a turreted Autocannon against vehicles.

Vaktathi
14-11-2006, 16:48
I did not know there was an autocannon kit, that looks useful, where are the rules for it though? I can only find the rules for the Heavy Bolter & Flamer in Imperial Armor V1 or the IG codex?

thanks for all the replies so far

Gaebriel
14-11-2006, 16:55
This (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/autochimera.htm) is the Forge world Autocannon turret, and the rules can be found in Imperial armour one : Imperial guard & Imperial navy (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/imperialarmourbookcontents.htm) (new Version), page 128.

Vaktathi
14-11-2006, 16:58
ahhhh ok, I have the old Imperial Armor book (~84 pages)...

hrm...

can you let me know if the autocannon costs any more than the normal heavy bolter or multilaser for the turret weapons by any chance?

Gaebriel
14-11-2006, 17:02
The Autocannon option costs a little but not neckbreakingly more than the Multilaser option. Right in the middle of the same and double the cost (not allowed to openly post points costs here :p ).

Edit : Sorry, rechecked and changed my wording.

Vaktathi
14-11-2006, 17:09
mmk sounds good, that's pretty much what I needed to know, thanks :D

TheWarSmith
14-11-2006, 17:28
FW makes autocannon, twin linked heavy bolter, and heavy flamer turrets.

I love the autocannon turret, if not for it looks alone. I find it a great weapon. It can glance the armour 13 vehicles, as well as penetrate scout/tau/aspect warrior armour.

Gutlord Grom
14-11-2006, 18:34
Still multilasers can put the fear of the God Emperor in Ork Speed Freaks and Dark Eldar. And three strength 6 shots don't hurt in a pinch.

Vaktathi
14-11-2006, 20:10
hrmm...for most armies, which would be most useful then? against MEQ's it seems the Multilaser would be more effective than the Autocannon (neither have a high enough AP to break a 3+ save, but they both wound on a 2+ on a T4 which looks like what most MEQ's are), but against Guardsmen, Tau, and essentially anything with an AP less than an MEQ it seems like the Autocannon would be better. The Heavy Bolter seems to be a sort of compromise, weaker than both, better AP than the ML, more shots than the AC. I guess I'm asking, what will be more effective against the largest range of enemies, and is it better to have a higher chance to wound or better to force your opponent to make more rolls?


suggestions?

Getz
14-11-2006, 20:55
Multilaser Vs Autocannon

The Multilaser is, overall, the most versatile weapon you can put in an Chimera turret, but the Autocannon scores over it on two points. Longer range and the ability to tackle heavier armour.

The Key thing is AV 12 here. It's a common AV and the Multilaser can only just scratch it, whereas the Autocannon is in many respects the optimal weapon to use against it. A Chimera with a Multilaser is a powerful Anti-infantry platform that can tackle light armour in a pinch. The Chimera with an Autocannon trades a little volume of firepower (although only one shot...) in exchange for being able to tackle medium armour with considerable confidence.

Personally, I woul never bother with the heavy bolter in the turret. Unless you absolutely, definately know you'll be up against a 4+ Sv army containingf little or now light to medium Armour, the Multilaser gives you more options.

Vaktathi
14-11-2006, 21:46
Multilaser Vs Autocannon

The Multilaser is, overall, the most versatile weapon you can put in an Chimera turret, but the Autocannon scores over it on two points. Longer range and the ability to tackle heavier armour.

The Key thing is AV 12 here. It's a common AV and the Multilaser can only just scratch it, whereas the Autocannon is in many respects the optimal weapon to use against it. A Chimera with a Multilaser is a powerful Anti-infantry platform that can tackle light armour in a pinch. The Chimera with an Autocannon trades a little volume of firepower (although only one shot...) in exchange for being able to tackle medium armour with considerable confidence.

Personally, I woul never bother with the heavy bolter in the turret. Unless you absolutely, definately know you'll be up against a 4+ Sv army containingf little or now light to medium Armour, the Multilaser gives you more options.



mmm...thanks for the input

the army I'd like to put together will have at least 4 chimera's, in addition to 2 Leman Russes and a Demolisher, so I'll slap an autocannon on 2 of them and leave the rest with Multi Lasers.

TheWarSmith
15-11-2006, 03:43
the problem w/ the multi laser is that it just can't punch out the armour. AP6 is BARELY better than ap-. I can only think of orks and DE wyches who have 6+ armour.

The autocannon gets you: -1 shot, +1S, 2 lower AP, longer range.

Those 12" are CRITICAL a lot of the time, and the ability to efficiently take out light-medium armour AND light-medium infantry is clutch.

The multi laser is better at taking out light armour and light infantry, but ONLY light, where the autocannon does both and only sacrifices 1 shot and about 5 points(i think?) for it.

Plus, once again, the FW turret REALLY looks nice.

Barbarossa
15-11-2006, 06:21
I think I'll have to defend the turreted heavy bolter here. While it is true that both the autocannon and the multilaser have better strength, I must say that I don't use the Chimera to tackle vehicles anyway. That's what Las cannons and missile launchers are for.
I like the HB because he
a) is cheaper than the autocannon
b) has better AP than the multilaser*
c) has more shots than the autocannon
d) unlike the autocannon, he is a secondary weapon - which will come in handy when you drive 6", fire the hunter killer missile and you're still able to fire two heavy bolters and the stubber/stormbolter

Another thing you should consider is that some people aren't comfortable with non-codex rules and upgrades. While the autocannon should be fine in games against your friends, you might want to go to a tournament one day or play someone who is just not so thrilled with upgrades from outside of the Guard codex.


* Sure, MEQs will ignore that, but it's good against Guard, Tau, most Eldar, marine scouts, stormtroopers and 'ard boyz.

Scythe
15-11-2006, 08:32
All upgrades have their uses. If you intend to take a few chimera's, it is a good idea to have a mix.

Autocannons have good light anti-tank capacity, but don't match as well with the secondary weaponry (heavy bolter, heavy stubber), and are the most expensive choice.

Multi-lasers are the most multi-tasked, able to tackle infantry and light vehicles. They are also the most effective weapon against MEQs, and combine quite well with your secondary weapons.

Heavy bolters are specialized on their anti light infantry role, but are quite good at it. Against non-meqs, they are the best choice if you are not searching for anti vehicle fire. Needless to say, they combine exceptionally well with the secondary weaponry of the chimera. The option to twin-link them (as in imperial armour) for a small price is very nice as well.

Getz
15-11-2006, 08:37
The multi laser is better at taking out light armour and light infantry, but ONLY light, where the autocannon does both and only sacrifices 1 shot and about 5 points(i think?) for it.


The Multilaser is better for tackling heavy infantry too... Neither the Autocannon not the Mulitlaser can beat 3+ saves and they both wound MEQs on a 2+, but the Multilaser gives you extra shots.

In fact, the volume of fire makes the Multilaser better at taking down MEQS than a Missile Launcher or Lascannon too.

The AP 6 isn't much of a drawback against 5+ saves either. Anything with a save that low will likely be grabbing some 5+ cover, and even if they aren't they're unlikely to make many saves - heavy bolters only give you a clear advantage over T3 armies with a 4+ save... So Tau and some types of Eldar and Guard. However, all three of those armies are likely to be equiipped with AV12 transports and tanks, so I'd still rather take a Multilaser to give me the ability to tackle their vehicles.

Sai-Lauren
15-11-2006, 08:50
Multilaser Vs Autocannon

The Multilaser is, overall, the most versatile weapon you can put in an Chimera turret, but the Autocannon scores over it on two points. Longer range and the ability to tackle heavier armour.

The Key thing is AV 12 here. It's a common AV and the Multilaser can only just scratch it, whereas the Autocannon is in many respects the optimal weapon to use against it. A Chimera with a Multilaser is a powerful Anti-infantry platform that can tackle light armour in a pinch. The Chimera with an Autocannon trades a little volume of firepower (although only one shot...) in exchange for being able to tackle medium armour with considerable confidence.
Autocannon basically turns your Chimera into a light tank - and it'll be more likely to take incoming fire as a result, thereby diminishing it's abilities as a transport.

I personally wouldn't use them outside an Armoured/Mechanised army, where there's other vehicles to attract the AT fire, and the AC Chimera can go up a flank and look for side/rear armour shots.

Kriegsherr
15-11-2006, 09:55
erhm.... Autocannons and Multilasers have exactly the same range. Just thought you people should be made aware of that fact.

And I personally still favor the MultiLaser... but then again I play on cover rich tables were I couldn't care less about AP as long as the target doesn't have a 2+... or its a flametemplate weapon

Getz
15-11-2006, 10:27
erhm.... Autocannons and Multilasers have exactly the same range. Just thought you people should be made aware of that fact.

Multilasers = 36"
Autocannons = 48"

Kriegsherr
15-11-2006, 10:55
Multilasers = 36"
Autocannons = 48"

I thought they both had 48"?

Well I don't have my RB right here, so I'll look it up at home.

Maarten
15-11-2006, 11:46
Getz is right. That's why the Mulitlaser combines so nicely with the hull bolter and pintle stubber :)

I saw a Chimera with a converted autocannon on it last friday. The thing looked awesome. Like those Russian BMPs.

TheWarSmith
15-11-2006, 12:45
I still just really love the autocannon because it's more versatile in my mind. light and medium infantry fall to it without saves. Yeah, multilaser is better vs. MEQ, but I try not to base my decisions around stupid MEQ.

jfrazell
15-11-2006, 13:12
Is the twin linked heavy bolter still acceptable from IA? I used to run that prior to the IA's coming out.

Scythe
15-11-2006, 13:20
Is the twin linked heavy bolter still acceptable from IA? I used to run that prior to the IA's coming out.

Yes, it is (at 50% price increase compared to the normal heavy bolter turret upgrade).

catdubh
15-11-2006, 13:45
Getz is right. That's why the Mulitlaser combines so nicely with the hull bolter and pintle stubber :)

I saw a Chimera with a converted autocannon on it last friday. The thing looked awesome. Like those Russian BMPs.

A real nice alternative to the forgeworld turret is to use a predator autocannon turret.
http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99390199007&orignav=10
On the US Gw site some bloke called Rick Smith has done a great conversion of a Chimera using this turret but arming it with a Multilaser. Simply leave it with the autocannon, below are the links to the Multilaser version.

http://us.games-workshop.com/download/popup.htm?/games/40k/imperialguard/painting/treadheads/p1/images/a_front.jpg
http://us.games-workshop.com/download/popup.htm?/games/40k/imperialguard/painting/treadheads/p1/images/a_top.jpg


Cool or what? :), working on one at the moment.:D

Compare this with the forgeworld model
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/autochimera.htm
To me this turret looks to small, also 3 more to buy!

Multilaser or autocannon?, Same problem with the sentinel, both great weapons but which one?, We are the guard take both, I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here both options are great at what they do.
I like a 2 to 1 ratio if favour of Multilaser, but thats just me.

Maarten
15-11-2006, 13:53
How "tournament legal" are autocannon chimeras, btw? Not that I have autocannon chimeras or that I ever attend tournies, but I'd like to have the option of fielding them in case I ever do attend a tournament.

Seeing as how they are only in an IA book, I'm guessing they aren't allowed by default.


edit: yeah that is one great looking conversion :) Unfortunately for me it looks like quite a bit of work to make several of them.

Darkhorse
15-11-2006, 14:21
Whilst the Autocannon is better at knocking out Dreadnoughts I prefer to keep the the Multilaser and add a hunter-killer missile for armour (or Space Marine characters). It is worth noting that the Autocannon counts as main armament whilst the multilaser is defensive weponry.
Also the turret heavy bolter is twin linked in the Forgeworld book which makes a difference at BS3.
From an aesthetic PoV having turret mounted autocannon on chimeras would look wrong next to my Salamander Scout.

Tournaments; A staffer recently took a Red Scorpions army to the GT so forgeworld stuff should be legal.

catdubh
15-11-2006, 15:47
How "tournament legal" are autocannon chimeras, btw? Not that I have autocannon chimeras or that I ever attend tournies, but I'd like to have the option of fielding them in case I ever do attend a tournament.

Seeing as how they are only in an IA book, I'm guessing they aren't allowed by default.


edit: yeah that is one great looking conversion :) Unfortunately for me it looks like quite a bit of work to make several of them.

I've never come across anyone with a problem with forgeworld stuff in friendly games but tournament wise it seems to be down to the organisers:(

With the conversion the only thing I'm doing is replacing the Chimeras turret with the predators turret, full stop! The rest is not for me. 4.00 and you have two turrets, one original one autocannon. Just swop to use which one you want. :D dead easy no real conversion need. :)

Vaktathi
15-11-2006, 16:36
For my army, I decided to go with a couple autocannon Chimera's, I'm going to have 6 chimeras total, in addition to 2 Demolishers and a Leman Russ stanard, so hopefully I wont have many problems with MEQ's or hordes.


the Predator turret on the Chimera looks pretty cool too :D

Lord Humongous
15-11-2006, 16:59
Is the multi-laser ever used in a non-vehicle role? I've never seen it fielded that way, which seems odd.

Anvils Hammer
15-11-2006, 17:03
ummm.. chimeras... love em.

In my current army I run with heavy bolters in the hull and turret.

With the hignsight of dozens of games, I realised that this was an error, the turret heavy bolter is a poor second choice to both the multi laser and autocannon. I could explain with math hammer, but cant be bothered riht now, just trust me, take the multilaser.
Its tournament legal, and a very lethal weapon, esspcially when combined with the heavy bolter in the hull and a heavy stubber.
The only down side to this combo is having 3 different weapons with different strenghts and AP values.

grimkeeper
15-11-2006, 17:12
hi,what do you consider would be the best option for the chaos militia in a cod setting,either a chimera with guard options or a rhino with chaos options.

TheWarSmith
15-11-2006, 17:25
Generally it's only the FW stuff that REALLy changes the game that is disallowed

superheavies, flyers, etc.

I don't really see why an autocannon turret would be illegal. Just because it hasn't been playtested like the multilaser has?

In COD take 2 a turret multi laser and a hull heavy flamer.

Carnelian
15-11-2006, 17:47
With the hignsight of dozens of games, I realised that this was an error, the turret heavy bolter is a poor second choice to both the multi laser and autocannon. I could explain with math hammer, but cant be bothered riht now, just trust me, take the multilaser.

It's not quite this straight forward... The multilaser is good against more opponents so it is more versatile, but if you know you are coming up against an eldar army that involves lots of aspects then heavy bolters are mega lethal!

Anvils Hammer
15-11-2006, 17:58
Carnelian, I agree, there are certainly situations in which the Heavy bolter is much better than the multi laser, tau and elder for example.
However, I was talking in a general sense. Given the massive over proportion of players that have marines, or stuff with 3+ saves, the multi laser is a better choice overall in an all comers list.

cheers



hi,what do you consider would be the best option for the chaos militia in a cod setting,either a chimera with guard options or a rhino with chaos options.

Hello mate,

I would strongly suggest a chimera for your milita squad.
The rhino is designed to be just a transport, this is all it needs to be, as the marines that are usually carried inside are awesome.
milita and guardsmen in general are not awesome, they need backup to perform effectivly.
This is where the chimera comes in, its only 35pts more than the Rhino, but it has tougher front armour and two anti infantry weapons.
this means that the milita squad will lay down impressive firepower beforethey even get out of their transport, and once they get out, theres a well armed tank to back them up.


conclusion.. CHIMERA!!

Darkhorse
15-11-2006, 22:06
Is the multi-laser ever used in a non-vehicle role? I've never seen it fielded that way, which seems odd.

Not since the days of RogueTrader, Since then it's just the Chimera and Sentinal that have had the multilaser. In 2nd Ed. there wa a vehicle card for an IG land speeder armed with multilaser and missile launcher but no model was ever produced.

TheWarSmith
15-11-2006, 22:27
While not infantry mounted, the imperial navy also uses multi lasers.

Getz
16-11-2006, 00:22
As do Warlord Titans, as point defence weapons...