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Pioneer
16-11-2006, 17:34
In few months there will be a small BFG tournament and it will have Oder and Disorder -like sides. So all Eldar players will be on forces of order -side with me, don't have to worry about them... :D Only with 1000p I won't get anything cool, that's a bummer, but here's a list for what I was planning on taking.

Mordian Frontier Fleet - 1000p

Fleet Admiral Athens Calhaan 75p
- 1 extra Re-roll +25p

I'd like to use a higher Ld admiral with 3 re-rolls, but since the need of more escorts is bigger, I think ld 8 admiral with 2 re-rolls is enough.

Mars Class Battlecruiser - Pandora Flare - 285p
- Admirals Flag Ship
- Salvaged Tau Targetin Array (left column sift) +15p

Mars is a efective ship in long range and with that better gunnery it can make good stand on short range too, also theres nothing else to buy with 15p.

Gothic Class Cruiser - Advent Suprise - 180p

Basic Cruiser, Lances are must, specially when the Eldar are fighting alongside and not against you.

Dauntless Class Light Cruiser - Conquest - 110p
- Torpedo

This ship will be ideal for defensing either of the big cruisers, if there is a possibilety of cruiser squadrons. If not, the Dauntless will form flanking force with cobras.

4x Sword Class Frigate - Rapier Squadron - 140p

3x Fire Storm Class Frigate - Firelance Squadron - 120p

3x Cobra Class Destroyer - Chalenger Squadron - 90p

Basic cannonfodder, Swords to mainline of defence/offence, firestorms to protect gothic and hopefully work their lances to big volley. Cobras will flank the enemy flagship or just help where needed, I'd just hope there would be 1 or 2 more of them.

Only thing to worry is Chaos boarding vessels. Any thoughts?

-Pioneer

orangesm
16-11-2006, 17:58
I probably would avoid taking the Battlecruiser and instead take a few either a Dictator and possibly either more escorts or another Dauntless.

Bringing more ships to the fight will be more important than a little bunch at long range.

Shinnentai
16-11-2006, 18:21
If you're using escorts as cannon-fodder then you're mis-using them. Escorts simply aren't durable enough for this role. The advantage of escorts is their manouverability and easily directed firepower - I find that they're best used sparingly to hunt down crippled ships that would otherwise escape. Keep them out of the enemy's sights until the fleets have intermixed and are out of formation or they'll just be easy VPs for the enemy.

As for the fleet-list, I think that the Mars is too big a target - almost 40% of your points spent on an 8hp ship is a bit of a risk even if you hang it back - plus only one Nova Cannon in a fleet is rarely a good idea due to the shield system dynamics. I feel that too many of your remaining points are spent on escorts for the fleet to be competitive - although it will be fun to play.

Might I suggest an alternative heavier fleet? :

How about an Emperor class as your flagship? A battleship in these size games is truly impressive, and the Emperor is a very efficient support vessel. Add two solid Lunars, and round the fleet out with 2 Dauntless class for the lances. The +1 ld on the Emperor and the size of the fleet should let you get away with a cheap ld8 / 2 re-roll admiral - 1,000pts.

Of course, you could also go for a Nova-Cannon-heavy fleet but it's more fun not to - if only because you won't get all those resentful looks from your opponents ;).

Pioneer
16-11-2006, 19:31
Mars is the only cruiser with lauch bays that I have, but taking the Emperor does sound temptive. Here's something I put together from figures that i have:

Mordian Frontier Fleet - 1000p

Fleet Admiral Athens Calhaan - 75p
- 1 Re-roll +25p

Emperor Class Battleship - Majestic Carrier - 345p

Gothic Class Cruiser - Advent Suprise - 180p

Dauntless Class Light Cruiser - Bladerunner - 110p
- Lance

Dauntless Class Light Cruiser - Conquest - 110p
- Torpedo

3x Cobra Class Destroyer - Antagonist Squadron - 90p

3x Cobra Class Destroyer - Chalenger Squadron - 90p

I should buy more cruisers to get different variants, but this is what I can go for now. Anything else, there's Overlord, 3 Falchions, 6 Swords and 6 Firestorms...

fracas
16-11-2006, 20:02
i think the revised list looks better.
firstly, i think you should always field 2 dauntless
second, the emperor is a fine carrier
thirdly, 2 sqdrns of escorts is all you will need, especially at 1k

orangesm
16-11-2006, 20:57
If you are buying more cruisers. I think a good idea is to decide what the plan for the fleet will be. Are you going to run a fleet that is Attack Craft heavy? If so I would replace the Gothic with a Dictator to give you even more attack craft. I realize you may not have one yet... but worth thinking about.

FuriosoShadow
17-11-2006, 00:05
The revised list looks better, but I dunno. . You've got a lot of lances, and your only batteries are on the Emperor. I would seriously consider ditching it and a dauntless to instead get 2 Dominators. Then you have 75 free points to kick around, go nuts.

By the way, your commander is a FLEET admiral, not a SOLAR.

Nkari
17-11-2006, 03:04
Yeah, lunar is a good standard ship, but I think the dictator with 45cm FP 10 guns is better..

FuriosoShadow
17-11-2006, 03:10
Lunar is terrible, are you kidding? It's far too broad to be of any use. I've never seen them work unless paired, and that's just silly.

What the heck Dictator with 45cm FP 10 guns do you know of? Dictators are 30cm FP 6. Sure you aren't thinking of the Tyrant, which is base 45cm FP 4 and 30cm FP 6, but 0-2 can be upgraded to be 45cm FP 10?

orangesm
17-11-2006, 03:51
The dominators are not nessecarily an better choice. It becomes a question of what kind of fleet he is trying to build.
An attack craft heavy fleet should have 2 Dictators and the Emperor to provide it with a large number of attack craft, possibly a Mars as the third Cruiser.
If the plan is to get into the build of the enemy fleet and broadside them at close range and follow up with a Gothic's lances then 2 Dominators make sense.
In a small fleet engagement the Lunar is an excellent choice - because it is verstile. A Lunar and a Dictator can fire their broadsides against a target, the Lunar firing last to fire its lances as well.
You are suggesting a pair of Dominators, a pair of Lunars is probably as effective if not more effective, minus the Nova Cannons.

The Nova Cannons are the big benefit to the Dominators, but your strategy then becomes keeping the enemy at arms length, this can prove difficult.

The Tyrants do provide some long range fire, but this is not were the Imperial Fleets strenght lies in my opinion.

A large number of Imperial ships have an armored prow a +6, it is meant to close with the enemy and then deliever a sound broadside to the nearest vessels. Even better if the opposing fleet turns to close on the side armor the turn before.

I would personal retain the Dauntlesses. A pair of them as a squadron are more than capable of taking on a large cruiser and possibly even battlecruiser. The combined broadsides are 8 per side and a follow on of 6 Lances. At close range in a turn I would expect a to get to roll at least 6 dice against the cruiser from the weapons batteries and another from the Lances. At 5+ for the weapons batteries that should take down shields followed by 3-4 hits against the ship itself. That is a crippled cruiser from the pair of lite cruisers. Quiet possibly with a follow on strike of equal strength the following speed due to their speed. The Dauntlesses are worth it.

To get the same firepower of 2 Lunars you will use 1 Dominator and 1 Gothic, you will spend 10 more points and gain a Nova but lose the Torpedeos. Novas are effective earlier on, where as Torpedeos are effective for delievering killing blows against damaged vessels.

So it comes down to your tactics and your techniques. I am personally a fan of the pair of Lunars, but then I am now building a Attack Craft light fleet as my second Imperial Fleet.

Pioneer
17-11-2006, 09:59
Ok, good amount of info here. So, Emperor and 2 Dauntless are staying. I'll also keep those Cobras, have to have some kind of Escorts... That leaves the Gothic, what do with it? If I would have couple more of Dauntless' I could take one squadron of Cobras and 4 Dauntless... Well at this point this I'll just have to pounder the enemy with lance.

Nkari
17-11-2006, 10:33
Lunar is terrible, are you kidding? It's far too broad to be of any use. I've never seen them work unless paired, and that's just silly.

What the heck Dictator with 45cm FP 10 guns do you know of? Dictators are 30cm FP 6. Sure you aren't thinking of the Tyrant, which is base 45cm FP 4 and 30cm FP 6, but 0-2 can be upgraded to be 45cm FP 10?

Yup, tyrants I mean.. hehe.. thats what you get from having one heck of a cold and writing stuff at 3am with little or no sleep.. ;) and indeed, lunars shuld be paired.. =)


Imho, 2 tyrants and 2 dauntless is the best base for the imperial fleet, add any battlecruisers or battleships as you see fit after that.. =)

But then again, I like mid range firepower so I can reach out and touch the chaos fleet once in a while, and wreak havoc with eldar fleets, or atleast give them something to think about..

FuriosoShadow
17-11-2006, 17:14
I'm not a fan of battleships @1000 anyway, in the games I play I only bring one when it's at least 1500 points. They're just too bloody expensive and they make your model count too low. But hey, if you want a battleship, knock yourself out.

fracas
17-11-2006, 21:12
for a tournament when you don't know what you will be facing, i would take a tyrant upgraded to 45cm batteries to ward off those pesky eldars. 30cm batteries just don't cut it against eldar.

i also don't care for a battleship at 1k but i would have no problem playing against it.

FuriosoShadow
18-11-2006, 01:56
Actually, the Emperor would be more than enough vs Eldar at 1000 points. It has enough bays to effectively stop Eldar ordnance by itself, it's bloody durable, and with the amount of 60 cm batteries it has it can really mess the Eldar up. Every Eldar player I know glares at me when I deploy an Emperor against them.