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Calanduil
17-11-2006, 09:05
Hello all

I'm at the moment playing Chaos and since I don't have that much artillery I need to get to the enemy fast.

I'm playing against a dwarf player and he is thinking of using two cannons. How do I counter that with a chaos undivided army?

Bloodknight
17-11-2006, 09:17
Hounds, mounted Marauders with flails, furies, screamers. Furies and screamers work quite well, if you use both.

Gutlord Grom
17-11-2006, 12:07
Light calvary attack, unless he makes some weird formation and you can't get around. Also just run foward till your flankers take the cannons.

Shaitan
17-11-2006, 13:41
I have played some games against a Dwarf player and there was no room to get behind his enemy lines with my Marauder Horsemen. That is when the units with flying come in handy. Of course Marauder Horsemen are also very nice for when there is room to get past his infantry units.

The Furies should be used in units of 10+ since they will probably be shot at in the first one or two turns.

The Exalted Daemon would benefit from the Mark wich gives -1 for shooting at the Daemon.

If you manage to get both units in combat with his war machines in turn 2 you will most likely neutralise his fire power (at least a little bit... ;))

WillFightForFood
17-11-2006, 13:46
The Exalted Daemon would benefit from the Mark wich gives -1 for shooting at the Daemon.

Cannons don't use BS to hit, therefore this would do nothing. You would be better off taking the mark that converts demonic ward saves to regular ward saves and placing the demon prince in a flying unit. In that case if he decides to make the cannons runic (i.e. magical attacks) you would be in a position to lose less of your army.

Ender Shadowkin
17-11-2006, 15:35
Excellent point about the demonic ward save, dwarf artillery typically comes with runes attached causing the missle fire to be magical. A point against demonic units.

If he has an organ gun make that priority #1.

The biggest mistake I see people do when confronted with a lot of shooting is a timid attack. When the time is right to come out from behind the screens, present as many targets as possible. You will take losses but thats you need to get as many units accross the board as possible. Make him choose what to shoot at. That includes when your flanker/hunter units really go for it. I;ve seen people, throw out their flanker while the main line holdes back, then the flankers are targeted and killed, Then the push one unit forward at a while trying to screen or hide others, and each unit gets picked off one at a time.

Banesword
17-11-2006, 18:49
You also have to remember that dwarf warmachine crews are no wussies in combat.

It will take something tougher then warhounds to be able to reliably silence a 4 man crew (with engineer).

Personally I always upgrade my warmachines with an engineer with pistols, 2 S4 shots as stad and shoot can decimate incoming fast cav/skirmish units.

Gimp
17-11-2006, 19:19
Hounds, mounted Marauders with flails, furies, screamers. Furies and screamers work quite well, if you use both.

thats what i would do mounted Marauders with flails can take on tough dwarf cannon crews.

max the dog
17-11-2006, 19:29
Fliers, lots of fliers. I play wood elves and we've got nothing in the way of warmachines. But we do have a flying circus of Warhawk Riders, Great Eagles, and Eagle mounted characters. Hit those small warmachine crews hard with a large unit of fear or terror causeing unit and win combat. That will take care of things for you.

Gimp
17-11-2006, 19:40
Fliers, lots of fliers. I play wood elves and we've got nothing in the way of warmachines. But we do have a flying circus of Warhawk Riders, Great Eagles, and Eagle mounted characters. Hit those small warmachine crews hard with a large unit of fear or terror causeing unit and win combat. That will take care of things for you.


Followed by the little skaven dude with the storm banner that never seems to end :(

Selsaral
17-11-2006, 19:41
As others have said, furies and screamers are great.

But the beast's ambush ability (that comes with a beast general) can also be effective.

operon
17-11-2006, 19:43
Or bring two Dogs of War cannons of your own and wait for the look on his face when you pull them out...

Andrew.

samw
17-11-2006, 20:04
"Honour and glory do not stop cannon-balls, flyers do."

Sound advice. Pick up some screamers and/or furies and you'll be set. Svreamers are tougher but furies have the chance to autobreak pesky crewmen.

Voltaire
17-11-2006, 21:52
Failing all the above, melt his pitiful cannon with your Hellcannon

Latro
17-11-2006, 22:38
You also have to remember that dwarf warmachine crews are no wussies in combat.

It will take something tougher then warhounds to be able to reliably silence a 4 man crew (with engineer).

Personally I always upgrade my warmachines with an engineer with pistols, 2 S4 shots as stad and shoot can decimate incoming fast cav/skirmish units.

I agree on the tough crew part ... a crew of 4 T4 Dwarfs with ld9 stubborn is very hard to get rid of, unless you cause fear. (Go Furies!)

The stand-and-shoot with pistols smell more like wishful thinking to me though. Since when can two shots with at least -2 to hit (multi-shot and charged) decimate units? ... you'll be lucky to score even one wound.

DeathlessDraich
18-11-2006, 10:07
One thing that hasn't been mentioned:

Entrenchment - If the dwarven warmachines are entrenched your best hope is magic.

Kaiser
19-11-2006, 22:03
Screamers would probably the best against artillery. furies are 0-1 per army so are not reliable with low save and combat power.

if you have them, shields for you whole army are the best thing.

For beastmen, try putting small units of either centigors and Minotaurs in between larger units of Gors and unGors.

For Mortal armies, giants and ogres would be good to keep an opponent busy with fast Marauders and and hounds.

Sorry for giving some simple answers, but if you want to you could just get a couple DOW cannons.

Latro
19-11-2006, 23:07
One thing that hasn't been mentioned:

Entrenchment - If the dwarven warmachines are entrenched your best hope is magic.

That's the funny thing about entrenchment these days, it has ...

- no effect on Chaos Knights
- no effect on Warhounds
- no effect on Furies
- no effect on Screamers
- not sure about Marauder Horsemen, the flail bonus doesn't need a charge

Not so bad ... :D

Neknoh
20-11-2006, 05:56
"Honour and glory do not stop cannon-balls, flyers do."

Sound advice. Pick up some screamers and/or furies and you'll be set. Svreamers are tougher but furies have the chance to autobreak pesky crewmen.

It's Pride and Glory my friend, Pride and Glory.

But, you were correct in assuming Furies doing the job the best, Mounted Daemonettes also work a treat, but, Furies are to be reckomended against dwarves.

javaguru
20-11-2006, 23:05
Hello all

I'm at the moment playing Chaos and since I don't have that much artillery I need to get to the enemy fast.

I'm playing against a dwarf player and he is thinking of using two cannons. How do I counter that with a chaos undivided army?

Use terrain, it's free. Otherwise, fliers or fast cavalry.....

greymeister
20-11-2006, 23:14
;)

Somehow I figured javaguru's answer would involve terrain...

Shaitan
21-11-2006, 08:24
Or use magic... Some magic missiles at a war machine is usually enough te destroy it.

You might however want to use your magic for something else but if his artillery is really messing up your plans you might want to consider it.

Sureshot05
21-11-2006, 10:45
I would echo the call for magic as a good support to the flyers. It provides you with a couple of back up plans and both can be used effectively against dwarven infantry.

Iziuth
21-11-2006, 12:23
I would aslo have to support the suggestion of screamers, with 2 wounds each the are great, they have 2 attacks at strenght 4 and if you win combat then autobreak for fear. If you use them then at least use 5. Don't know about furies though they only have T3 so maybe they could be hit back harder. Only advantage I see is that they are cheaper 15pts vs 33 for screamers.