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Arnizipal
19-11-2006, 01:37
This came up during a game last week. I fired a rockobber at a unit of Silverhelms near the table edge (thay had just returned to the table after chasing off some Wolfriders). The stone scattered off the table but still landed close enough so that part of the template hit the unit.

My opponent argued that since the stone landed off the table edge, it was gone and the shot was a miss altogether. I disagreed and we rolled it off. I won (though in typical Orcish fashion I didn't hit a thing).
Did we play that correctly?



Here's another question: the desription for the Mork Wants Ya spell in the Little Waaagh! lore says you can pick out any model in a unit. The model will suffer D6 S10 hits if it fails and I test.
Does this mean I can pick up a warmachine (it will autofail its I-test as it has no I) and just do the damage to it?

Morgrin
19-11-2006, 02:02
I believe no rule covers what happened there with the wayward stone. Rolling it seems to be the best option.

Can't seem to think of anything to stop you from doing that with the spell, but I may be missing something.

enyoss
19-11-2006, 06:14
I'd say off the table is off the table... you can't measure relative effects from a place you can't measure :).... the 'off table' being immeasurable.

As for the Mork Wants Ya spell... I can't see any reason why it wouldn't apply. I'm not an Orcs & Goblins player either, and I don't see it as being too overpowered if you use it this way... well, until the hot blood of competition rushes to my veins, that is ;)

In summary: It should have missed. The spell effects the warmachine.

Cheers,

enyoss

enyoss
19-11-2006, 06:19
Don't think I was clear enough on the stone thrower :). Anything that lands off the table is a miss... that's it! No scatter can put it back on the table and no template is necessary... it's a complete miss and that's that. Hope that helps.

Cheers,

enyoss

Festus
19-11-2006, 07:53
Hi

It is funny and counter-intuitive, but the OP was right:

With a ST, you first guess the range, then you place the template on the spot of your guess and then you move the template according to the scatter dice... so it does damage, even if the center point misses the table. (BRB, p.92)

Wer it the other way round (ie. you guess, then you scatter, then you place the template on the point of impact), there would have been no point to put the template on in the first place. But the rules work differently.

Intended by the designers? I don't think so, but this is the rules nonetheless. :)

FEstus

DeathlessDraich
19-11-2006, 08:28
Good questions Arnizipal. What's a sinterklass?

I can find no direct answers in the rules.

Q1.I agree with Festus on the Stone thrower
Q2. Now why didn't I think of that before:p . A great tactic! Watch out all warmachines and also Steam tank when I play O&G.

Griefbringer
19-11-2006, 08:49
What's a sinterklass?


To my knowledge, that would be the Dutch term for Santa Claus.

Arnizipal
19-11-2006, 17:11
I can find no direct answers in the rules.

Q1.I agree with Festus on the Stone thrower
Q2. Now why didn't I think of that before:p . A great tactic! Watch out all warmachines and also Steam tank when I play O&G.
So basically I was correct then? The shot still does damage?

About Mork Wants Ya, that's how I always used the spell in 5th edition. But back then it picked up the entire warmachine including the crew, and did no damage. The picked up model(s) could only escape if they passed a S test on 2D6. And even if they escaped, they all got a S4 hit. :D


What's a sinterklass?


To my knowledge, that would be the Dutch term for Santa Claus.

Actually it's the other way around. Santa Claus is the American version of Sinterklaas (as he is the original St Nicolas).

Santa Claus (http://www.nisbett.com/symbols/images/SO00187_.jpg)

Sinterklaas (http://members.lycos.nl/machokat/sinterklaas-9.jpg)

Here's the Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinterklaas) on it.

enyoss
19-11-2006, 19:33
With a ST, you first guess the range, then you place the template on the spot of your guess and then you move the template according to the scatter dice... so it does damage, even if the center point misses the table. (BRB, p.92)


But is it possible to mark a point that isn't on the table? I know that on our tables this would result in marking a point hovering in the air! I was under the impression that all play must be within the table boundaries... hence why a unit is 'off the board' if even the slightest portion goes over the edge. Still... if I can't find anything to back it up ruleswise it looks like Arnizipals solution is the correct one... even though it does feel wrong :).

Cheers,

enyoss

Festus
19-11-2006, 20:22
Hi

You never can mark a point that is not on the table. But the rules don't ask you to: You mark the point of your guess, put down the template and then move the template according to the scatter.

Should you guess out of the table, you cannot scatter back, but you can nonetheless scatter out partially .

Festus

Badgobbla
20-11-2006, 09:33
the desription for the Mork Wants Ya spell in the Little Waaagh! lore says you can pick out any model in a unit. The model will suffer D6 S10 hits if it fails and I test.
Does this mean I can pick up a warmachine (it will autofail its I-test as it has no I) and just do the damage to it?

I would gather that there is an entry in the stonethrower-chapter about the unit it represents? I think that it would state if the warmachine itself can be singled out or not. I don't dare to phrase an answer on this, as I don't have the rulebook with me and I don't know these rules by heart.

In regards to your first question: It would seem logical to me that, once the stone veers of the table, it can't do any more damage. But since you decided to roll for it, that's good too, if your opponent agreed to it.

Arnizipal
20-11-2006, 14:17
I would gather that there is an entry in the stonethrower-chapter about the unit it represents? I think that it would state if the warmachine itself can be singled out or not. I don't dare to phrase an answer on this, as I don't have the rulebook with me and I don't know these rules by heart.

The rules about warmachine models on p84 say that each crewmember and the machine itself is a single model (unlike ridden monsters and chariots).
And as the Mork Wants Ya spell specifically states you can pick individual models out of units, this spells seems ideal for crushing warmachines.


In regards to your first question: It would seem logical to me that, once the stone veers of the table, it can't do any more damage. But since you decided to roll for it, that's good too, if your opponent agreed to it.
But it wasn't entirely off the table. It could still do damage.

ZomboCom
20-11-2006, 14:46
Q2. Now why didn't I think of that before:p . A great tactic! Watch out all warmachines and also Steam tank when I play O&G.

Steam tanks are immune to all spells that do not have a fixed strength value.

luckyguy
20-11-2006, 15:51
I believe the spell is S10. It just requires an initiave test (to avoid it). So steam tank would not be immune to this spell on that basis.

Grudgebringer88
21-11-2006, 04:36
What if the Goblin Caster were to target a chariot? I believe in the rules the crew, steeds, and chariot body are all one model. Which Initiative value would they test on to avoid the S10 hits?

flain
21-11-2006, 14:03
afaik you always take the lowest I if a single model has multiple. The crew may avoid the finger, but I do not see a chariot dodging it. So a chariot would be auto crushed if it gets wounded by this spell.

ps I don;t have the rulebook with me so I cann't point the page number atm

DeathlessDraich
21-11-2006, 16:45
No, I don't think the rules say that

Festus
21-11-2006, 17:12
Hi

You are right: It is not in the rules themselves. And TBH, I'd always count the highest instead of the lowest I.

Festus

10th clancannach rangers
21-11-2006, 17:26
It would make more sense if it was the lowest

Festus
21-11-2006, 17:30
Why?

It is the test of reaction to the unforeseen. Certainly a Hero riding a chariot will be more aware and direct the chariot to safety?

Whatever the reasoning, there is no rule in the BRB. And Chariots have the spiffy little rule that the values which are not given will not be used at all. So it is not I0 but I-. Therefore you will have to use the I of either the crew or the steeds. I prefer the higher...

Festus
Festus

NakedFisherman
21-11-2006, 18:32
So it is not I0 but I-.

Well, according to the rules, I- is the same as I0.