PDA

View Full Version : "Special" characters....



Vet.Eter
20-11-2006, 18:51
In the new Orcs & Goblins book the special characters are now part of the army and they can be taken without the aprove of the opponent. My question is this: the dwarfs special characters can be taken too without asking to your opponent?
Sorry for my bad english and if this thread allready exists



:D

Festus
20-11-2006, 18:53
Hi

If you want to play with somebody, I think everything needs the opponent's permission...

... but you are free to use any Spec Char out of the armybook. You won't make many friends this way, though, I am afraid...

FEstus

Morgrin
20-11-2006, 19:03
Most people don't like to play with or against Special Characters, most "break" the game in some small but annoying (and potencially abusive) way.

On the bright side, most Special Chars are also generally overpriced and in smallish games they are a huge point sink.

enyoss
20-11-2006, 19:07
Hi
... but you are free to use any Spec Char out of the armybook. You won't make many friends this way, though, I am afraid...


This seems kind of unexpected to me... my group doesn't really have a problem with them (well, Teclis always gets a groan out of everybody but, oh well :)). I'm kind of surprised at this considering how many unsporting interpretations of the rules are posted here to a saddening lack of scorn... it would seem that Special Characters are the least of some players problems to me :(.

Cheers,

enyoss

Festus
20-11-2006, 20:06
Hi

SCs are the worst balanced of all the army elements. Either they are hideously overcosted, or hideously effective and undercosted. There is no real balanced SC (and this includes the ST IMO)

Festus

enyoss
20-11-2006, 20:27
Mmmm... I've always considered Eltharion almost perfectly balanced. Granted, he wasn't in the army book :). I can think of several army elements, both for High Elves and other armies, which are far worse in regards of game balance. I think you're correct in that some Special Characters are too powerful while others are downright worthless, but surely there are quite a few in the middle ground who derserve a fair hearing :)?

Cheers,

enyoss

WLBjork
21-11-2006, 04:44
I knew it wasn't perfect, but when The White Dwarf stands toe-to-toe with Snarsnik and Gobbla and suffers only a single wound, I know there's a real problem.

Flame
21-11-2006, 07:48
Special Characters in 6/7th editions have always been part of the army lists- its just in the new orc and Empire books they have been included in the lord/hero sections, wheras before they had their own little bit.

Nothing about them has really changed, and as before you can use them without your opponents permision (as you could with all the other books) its just that you'll struggle to find an opponent willing to play.

T10
21-11-2006, 08:04
The more powerful characters tend to consume additional character slots (some even rare slots as well). I can't really think of any characters that are particularilly overpowered, with the exception of Grimgor Ironhide.

Grimgor is an ass.

-T10

Flame
21-11-2006, 08:09
Thorek?

He is bent.

Dralafi
21-11-2006, 10:03
As a skaven player I never even consider taking any SC for my army. I get more rats out of normal stuff. Dont get me wrong, some SC are horrible, others are just not cool. I enjoy reading up on them, imagen what kind of army could be fielded with them and whatnot but I dont think I'll ever actually do it. I've toyed with Settra chariot army many times, just because it would be fairly cheap, cash wise, and be fun to see them all go up in sticks and bones as my opponents blast me with cannons.

Siam-Tiger
21-11-2006, 10:26
I´m absolutely no fan of SC in Armies smaller than 3.000 pts. In larger battles of about 5k+ they can be fun & fitting, but depends strongly on which SC. There are the small ~ 300-400 pts SC that are halfway playable, but the larger that go for 600 pts and above are just horrible for gameplay and fun.

EvC
21-11-2006, 11:33
The more powerful characters tend to consume additional character slots (some even rare slots as well). I can't really think of any characters that are particularilly overpowered, with the exception of Grimgor Ironhide.

Grimgor is an ass.

And now he's only a Lord choice, so he's even more likely to be seen on the battlefield :D

Iziuth
21-11-2006, 11:44
No special characer is invincible. There are many more combo's out there that are cheasy and cost a lot less than a SC, especially if it doesn't cost you more hero slots as well.
Also I would like to state that refusing to play someone on the army he play or the character he fields is very childish, while I like to win just as much as the next man (woman) I will never refuse to play someone. I do prefer to know beforehand if someone uses one, but I would not refuse someone to field the character. Losing the occasional game is part of it and should serve as learning points to get better at playing your own army.

Fredrik
21-11-2006, 12:53
Im on the side that feels the special charachters belong in the fluff part of the hobby and should not get stats and half assed rules that either makes them crap or way to good.

Another aspect is agian in the fluff part of the hobby with using SC. Is in the "fact" that storywise some SC have been killed or bye other means passed on (yes i do realise that is´t all just fantasy, but i still like it to keep some degree of solidity). Just feels wrong. That also goes for killing the same SC in game after game, or even killing characters of myth in the first place.

These are some of my aspects for not liking SC.

greymeister
21-11-2006, 13:56
I've never had a problem with special characters, nor do I ask if my opponent is fielding one beforehand (usually it's pretty obvious, with the model and all). I've always believed that if you're going to play a game that allows you to take special characters, don't whine about or try to bully people who do. It's akin to saying "I don't like chariots, if you have one I won't play against you" IMO.

Tutore
21-11-2006, 14:01
Special characters are banned in my group.

Festus
21-11-2006, 14:09
Hi

It's akin to saying "I don't like chariots, if you have one I won't play against you" IMO.
If I don't like your chariots, noone is going to force me to play wth you, though :evilgrin:

If you want to play, you got to keep your mates in a good mood ... if not using SCs to do so, just do so...

My 2c worth.

Festus

EldarRaven
21-11-2006, 14:35
I just don't like SC. They do not really work half the time and or are way too pricey to play in games. I maybe saying this because most of the time I only play 2000 point games and all. But some people play 3000 point games and took a SC. That game did not look good and the SC ended up being a total waste of points. I find that things that are Big and nasty will be targeted and die faster then things that are small and nasty because they are harder to spot.

enyoss
21-11-2006, 15:02
If I don't like your chariots, noone is going to force me to play wth you, though :evilgrin:

If you want to play, you got to keep your mates in a good mood ... if not using SCs to do so, just do so...


But this is what surprises me. Going by the posts here, people seem to be more tolerant of Mage/cavalry/gunline armies than they are of special characters... which just seems... well... odd :). I'm all for choosing a list and playing a game in which both players have a good time. In fact, my insistance on this is probably why I lose so often (even with Eltharion ;)). It's just that, when I say that on other threads (usually to suggest a toning down of magic or cavalry), I often get rebuked for not being competitive enough... probably by the same people who oppose Special Characters!

It just seems to me that the poor old Specials get a raw deal... there's a lot of High Elf armies on these boards with 3 Mages at 2K which don't get the kind of rebuttal we're seeing here.

Just wasn't expecting this many negative responses I suppose :).

Cheers,

enyoss

Festus
21-11-2006, 15:20
Hi

I can only speak for myself, but usually I like a straight thrashing, as long as both armies are geared for some good hearted fun, SC or not.

If I can count on my opponent being a good sport and taking care of having fun first and foremost; I don't really care what he brings: Gunline, RAF, Scs, whatever. I even playtest tourney lists with my mates and see a few very competetive armies.

IMO it is the player, not the army (although if you played the good old SAD you'd a hard time of proving my first impression wrong ;) )

FEstus

DeathlessDraich
21-11-2006, 16:41
Our club tends to stick to common tournament approved lists - no special characters.
SC create an imbalance otherwise tournaments would allow them.

kyussinchains
21-11-2006, 18:25
why is it that people can't be trusted? some special characters are pretty powerful and as a consequence, people use them in every game, even though they dont have to. This leads to people banning them or whinging about them. I dont care if my opponent uses special characters or anything else unusual, but the game is more fun when the characters are a surprise, rather than a must-have feature of every single army

greymeister
22-11-2006, 02:17
Since special characters are genuine options in an army list, banning them is short-sighted and unfair. However, what people do with their own groups is not my concern, and it's clear that there is a great hatred of special characters on the warseer forums.

That said, I post this not because I need people to agree with me but because I want it known that there are people who don't consider using special characters debasing their army. I can think of dozens of different, non-special character options that I'd rather my opponents not take, unfortunately for me those options work very well against my army and as such are likely to appear.

Also, for those of you who hate special characters, please don't besmirch those of us who routinely or even occasionally use special characters.