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nurgle_boy
06-07-2005, 18:46
i realised, after searching the forums, there was no orc tactica.
so, why not start one?

im only beggingin with my savage orcs so does anyone know some good old orcy tactics?

all i know, is to get to combat fast, with killy units, and... well... kill....

Ordo Hereticus
06-07-2005, 19:32
er combat fast sounds like a good plan :D

i aways see magic heavy orcs and gobbos :( though their magic is very powerfu

anyone use an anti-magic orc or gobbo army? o.Ol

nurgle_boy
06-07-2005, 20:01
well, i split magic and combat 50:50

fighting lord, fighting hero, and 2 shamans, as i usualy play magic medium-heavy armies, but when i play my khornate list, i drop a shaman (warcrier) and take another fighter.

fubukii
06-07-2005, 21:14
orcs dont need a tactica its pretty straight fwd get night gobs fanatics own stuff orc units hit stuff in combat shoot stuff with bolt throwersdoom diver

Tormentor of Slaanesh
07-07-2005, 08:49
use chariots by the bucket load. have a giant and get him to kill stuff. have wolf riders cos they're sooooooooo cheap. and so on.

Riddy
07-07-2005, 08:49
orcs dont need a tactica its pretty straight fwd get night gobs fanatics own stuff orc units hit stuff in combat shoot stuff with bolt throwersdoom diver

I could say the same about most armys:

Woodelves-Archers shoot stuff, mages magic stuff and wardancers/dryads kill stuff.

highelves-Bolt throwers shoot stuff, mages magic stuff, swordmaster/silver helms hit stuff.

Chaos-knights/warriors hit stuff, hellcannon shoots stuff, sorcerors magic stuff.

So every army can be generalised that way. Every army should have a tactica, although usually they fall off the front page every now and again. At the old portent i had contributed quite alot to the Orc tactica on Portent but i no longer play orcs and I think i'll leave this one to the current players.

Lady's Champion
07-07-2005, 16:30
Wait Wait Wait one second... Orcs? Tactics? Orcs? TACTICS? ORCS???

Lol just charge with a Waaagh!

Riddy
08-07-2005, 10:16
orcs dont need a tactica its pretty straight fwd get night gobs fanatics own stuff orc units hit stuff in combat shoot stuff with bolt throwersdoom diver


use chariots by the bucket load. have a giant and get him to kill stuff. have wolf riders cos they're sooooooooo cheap. and so on.


Wait Wait Wait one second... Orcs? Tactics? Orcs? TACTICS? ORCS???

Lol just charge with a Waaagh!

All 3 of you, if you have nothing positive to add to a serious tactica thread i suggest you dont post, if you wish to continue to post in this manner, please go back to the GW message boards.

Another thing i would suggest you do, borrow an orc army and simply use the tactic Lady's Champion suggested, you will find you dont win much ;)

DocFool
16-07-2005, 01:54
Seriously, though. I'd be interested in reading up on ork [yes, I know this is a Fantasy forum] tactics. I'm just starting a waaagh of my very own, and don't think that my dwarfy tactics will translate well.

I know little about cavalry or magic, so I'll start off with some questions:

I will be getting gobbo wolf riders. The question is, should they have bows or spears? Armor or no armor? I enjoy the idea of large units on my flanks peppering the bad guys with arrows, but I just don't know if it's a viable stratagem.

Formex
17-07-2005, 22:53
I will be getting gobbo wolf riders. The question is, should they have bows or spears? Armor or no armor? I enjoy the idea of large units on my flanks peppering the bad guys with arrows, but I just don't know if it's a viable stratagem.

I like using wolfriders in units of 5 so I only equip them with spears and a musician, maybe a shields because they look better that way. As for light armor, I don't like it since it removes their fast calvary rules.

I don't use bows because it seems like a waste of points. You won't hit much with the range and movement penalities. Also, 5 shots aren't going to do a heck of a lot. Maybe for mage hunting it would be good?

Well those are my thoughts anyways.

Bingo the Fun Monkey
18-07-2005, 08:45
Well lets get it rolling...I say we start with NOT heroes and maybe Core instead? So I'll throw in my two teef...
ORC BOYZ:
These are one of the best buys in the game and, armed in almost any way, are really effective (although I have yet to witness a single battle where those lads with two hand weapons did ANYTHING except prevent my shaman from getting targeted by flyers). Some prefer to keep 'em cheap with just choppas. In a standard 2k army I take three mobs one armed with shields, one with spears and one with two hand weapons (though if I had the models I'd take another mob with just shields). Unit size 20-30 is the best. I find anything above 30 to be too unwieldy. The choppa is both a blessing and a curse. On one hand, if you can get the charge the +1 S (especially with big uns boosting it to S5) is really handy giving you that extra punch you need to maybe win a combat from the outgo. Unfortunately, in Grim Darkness that is 6th Edition there is only Cavalry Armies. So we won't be getting the charge as much as we imagine...and we lose the hw+shd save. The greenskin army is very much an offensive counter charge army. Anyways, back to the lads...Big Uns are nice and I don't see any reason not to upgrade one unit to them. I usually arm my big uns with spears and shields to guarantee some WS4 S4 strikes back at the enemy. Several Orc generals ponder over whether to take a standard or not. I think Avian had the best idea where if the unit is over 200 points, take the banner, if not, leave it at home. I find a boss and musician to be invaluable, however, as sometimes, it's better to flee from a charge you know you won't hold than to try and hope your enemy rolls crap dice. The +1 to rally will help a great deal. Finally the boss basically guarantees 2 big un attacks back at the enemy.
ARRER BOYZ: I don't take them, but that they're armed with choppas is a fact often ignored by your opponent. So they do have some extra punch in the unlikely even of a counter charge. Still, the points (and space) are, imo, better spent elsewhere. Maybe I just don't know how to use them.
VANILLA GOBBOZ:
I've never taken them with bows or spears...in fact, I only ever take them as 'ard grots (la, hw, shd) and treat them as expendable empire swordsmen. Maybe someone else can say something useful about them.
NIGHT GOBBOZ:
Often seen as merely a fanatic transport, the full potential of nigh goblin units are often ignored after the release of their insane cargo. The sheer fear factor and lengths an enemy (esp bret generals) would go to avoid this unit are rather amusing (recalling a lance formation of grail knights pulling off wardancer moves on the battlefield). Anyone who's suffered the traumatic experience of getting their uber leet unit of death trashed by 75 points of drugged goodness will have phobias and you have every right to take advantage of these (like leaving the fanatics at home and just use the gobbos as a meat shield). I like netters as they not only make the unit look cooler but the attacks that are prevented can count for a lot. Fanatics or not, they are mobile rank bonus that you can also afford to lose.
Wolf Boyz: wonderful unit, best buy in the game. Spears and musician...maybe even shields to look cool. They make excellent preliminary tag teams with wolf chariots with a jaw-droppingly good charge range. S4 on the charge isn't bad either and when you're used to goblins abominable hand to hand abilities, the S4 and the wolves WS3 really shine through. Their uses are endless: like all fast cav you can force the enemy to charge, flee, and attempt to pull off a good combined counter charge.
Overall: About Core units and the O/G army in general...the name of the game is no longer "get 'em ladz" that's the Bretonnians specialty these days (no offense to bret players). With "average" movement, the way to win combats is to set up effective counter charges (and combined!!!). Elite armies such as elves have developed strategies of MSU, but, with orcs and gobbos, its all the easier that we can have units of those same low points values....and have lots of those too. Outnumbering the opponent is essential as, although you'll have a couple units running/destroyed by the end of turn 4, u have that many more left to bash da gits in, while the enemy has already been depleted. Oh yea, big units are a good thing. Your boyz are cheap so you can have big "worthless" units that, when combined, create a whole battle that's greater than the sum of its parts (and there's already lots of parts).
Animosity: deal with it. Don't put units in front of each other.
Hope this helped. I might do specials, rares and characters if i feel like it.

Riddy
18-07-2005, 09:35
Wolf riders work well in 2 different setups, either in units of 5-6 with spears and musician, for flanking and mage/machine hunting or in big units of 15+ with spears La and shield, plus command and maybe a gobbo big boss depending on your army. In the units of 5 they can charge down flanks, get behind the enemy and eliminate war machines, then they can go after support units and even flank/rear charge if needed. In units of 15 with command you have a solid unit of cheap medium cavalry, i would usually use them in conjunction with another unit of wolf riders to flank the enemy and deny ranks.

Chuffy
18-07-2005, 09:55
Actually Orc boys aren't that cheap when you think about it. They pay points for a choppa.

Thats right, they pay points for something which means they can't have a sweet sweet +1 save in close combat. However I agree with Bingo, additional hand weapons aren't really that useful on strength 3 troops.

And yes Big 'Uns with spears and shields are the way foward.

Arrer boyz aren't really that useful, 8 points for something with a bow....naah. Handgunners are a much better deal, but hey, we can't take Handgonners.

Night Goblins are really one of the most feared units in the game, most of the time I've won battles not because of fanatics killing things but because of the psychological impact they can have on an opponent. Fanatics really are nothing special and cost alot of points, however people are scared of them and they can occasionally destroy units. NG's are also very good infantry, sure they can't stand up to chaos warriors or dwarf ironbreakers, but they can give empire infantry a hard time. Cheap and cheerful and also pretty damn potent.

Wolf Riders....best fast cavalry in the game, hands down. Always take them, 2 units at the least.

Orcdom
18-07-2005, 21:54
Night goblins are IMHO the best unit in a O&G army. i have over 250 night goblins based and painted.
this weekend i played a 1500 pt army and used the following:
1 goblin big boss (general)
1 goblin big boss (BSB w/ raggedy baner)
2 NG Shaman lvl 2
(These were all in mobs, below shows what unit but 1 sham was loose which got him sniped by magic.)

1 nigh gobbo mob 60 odd strong w/short bows
>3 finatics
>full command
>BSB
>General (with the eadbutt ring)
1 night gobbo Mob about 40 Strong w/spears
>3 Finatics
>1 shaman with mad cap mushroom
3 bases snotlings
1 squig mob
18 squigs
6 herders
2 Bolt throwers
2 goblin chariots

opponett had highelves and conceded 4th turn.
i killed more of my own than he did. from finatics killing mine and me killing finatics.

i did know there would be a chance of playing against elves, didnt know what flavor. also thought there would be a chance of playing against mortal Khorne.

with finatics hope one falls short to not hit the enemy and hope the other 2 hit the enemy.
viable stand and shoot, my night gobbo archers were 13 models wide.

BTW i play almost solely with a goblin horde now. and own 8K in O&G 90% painted and those points are before character upgrades.
anymore i rarely lose with an all goblin army but have been using a majority of gobbos since i have started the army almost 13 years ago.

Steve

Bingo the Fun Monkey
18-07-2005, 23:14
Actually Orc boys aren't that cheap when you think about it. They pay points for a choppa.
Thats right, they pay points for something which means they can't have a sweet sweet +1 save in close combat.
The +1 save is pants in this day and age of cavalry armies. Orc boyz are cheap enough for you to have large mobs that won't award the enemy many VPs...which is what will win you games (with orcs)...and the odd wolf chariot or three and some wolf boyz...

DocFool
19-07-2005, 01:57
I had figured that a moderately-sized unit of arrer boys might be useful in defending war machines, albeit from minor threats. They might even pick off a few eenmy models so long as they are there.

I don't see the attraction of spears for big 'uns. I don't tend to have the problem of facing cavalry armies, and am sorely tempted by the additional choppa for many S4 attacks.

Chuffy
19-07-2005, 07:19
The +1 save is pants in this day and age of cavalry armies. Orc boyz are cheap enough for you to have large mobs that won't award the enemy many VPs...which is what will win you games (with orcs)...and the odd wolf chariot or three and some wolf boyz...

Well okay, but your still paying points for no bonuses.

Besides I still play quite a few infantry armies, sure theres a lot of cavalry, but thats what spear chukkas, rock lobbas, fanatic and black orcs with great weapons are for. Hey if I could take that +1 save I'd still be saving on a 6+ against most cavalry with my boyz.

The lesson learned?

Choppas suck. Give me a normal hand weapon THAT DOESN'T COST ANY POINTS anyday.

Alex
24-07-2005, 22:08
Hello peeps. O&G general on the rise and in need of education here. ^^

I thought it would be interesting to discuss our special choices, since these kinds of threads generally seems to get caught up in characters and core...

Black Orcs, how to arm them? Two hand weapons or Great Axe? Any use for Boar Chariots at all? They seem utterly worthless to me. Squig herds really useful or just fun? Is it feasable to make a shooty O&G army, and what warmachines should one use in that case.

Etc. ^^

Venomizer
24-07-2005, 23:57
Hello peeps. O&G general on the rise and in need of education here. ^^

I thought it would be interesting to discuss our special choices, since these kinds of threads generally seems to get caught up in characters and core...

Black Orcs, how to arm them? Two hand weapons or Great Axe? Any use for Boar Chariots at all? They seem utterly worthless to me. Squig herds really useful or just fun? Is it feasable to make a shooty O&G army, and what warmachines should one use in that case.

Etc. ^^


Welcome to the Waaagh!, anyway I'll provide my input on your questions

Black Orcs: personally I prefer them with great weapons, I'm sure others will disagree though

Boar/Wolf Chariots: they work well hammering small units and assisting with flank charges....I think these are the main uses

Squig Herds: I can't really comment on these since I play an 'Ardboys list

Shooty O&G: I dare say it's feasible to make a shooty O&G army - how effective it'll be I'm not sure, however if you wanted to go shooty I'd go for spear chukkas & rock lobbers

hope I've helped some :skull:

Orcdom
25-07-2005, 01:35
squigs are great, esp when someone has frenzy, esp a khorne army.
Steve

feintstar
25-07-2005, 01:51
Ooooh, venomiser, talk about the Ardboyz list!

As has been said before, in the Grim Darknes of the sixth edition, there is only cavalry, and much of it fast, and many hardcore mages. So how do you get into combat when your opponent keeps running away and blasting you with magic?

You don't have any scouts, any infiltrators, no fast cav, no fliers... I'd expect the woodelves to dance upon your grave... So what gives? How do you overcome the flaws in the list? And how many Orcs do you upgrade to Big uns?

I notice the potentially lethal fact that Trolls are a special choice in the Ardboyz list; take 2 units with a giant? absorbing charges and using their extra movement?

I would expect that here's an army that has a very legit use for small units of Arrer Boyz; shoot those annoying flier units etc, then throw them into the flanks of your enemy for choppa nastiness.

Alex
25-07-2005, 10:16
Arrer boyz.. *sighs*

I hate it that these are about the only archers we have (except gobbos, that have range 16"). Arrer boyz aren't really something I would like to field, yet archers etc. are really the best units for killing of small fast moving lightly armoured troopers, like fast cav.

I have been pondering alternatives (since I don't wanna use any arrer boyz, never tried them ever), magic missiles are one, but magic is unreliable, the other is to charge the light cav before it charges you, the wolfies got an edge with their movement of 9", both riders and the chariots.

Fliers then are a harder nut to crack, since they outpace everything in the O&G army.

That's what I miss the most in O&G, fliers, and decent shots. ^^

Venomizer
25-07-2005, 14:10
Ooooh, venomiser, talk about the Ardboyz list!

As has been said before, in the Grim Darknes of the sixth edition, there is only cavalry, and much of it fast, and many hardcore mages. So how do you get into combat when your opponent keeps running away and blasting you with magic?

You don't have any scouts, any infiltrators, no fast cav, no fliers... I'd expect the woodelves to dance upon your grave... So what gives? How do you overcome the flaws in the list? And how many Orcs do you upgrade to Big uns?

I notice the potentially lethal fact that Trolls are a special choice in the Ardboyz list; take 2 units with a giant? absorbing charges and using their extra movement?

I would expect that here's an army that has a very legit use for small units of Arrer Boyz; shoot those annoying flier units etc, then throw them into the flanks of your enemy for choppa nastiness.

Magic: this is the main area where I lose games, since I don't use any shamans (part of my armies background), but the amount of magic heavy armies I've played I can count on one hand

that said of those magic heavy armies I've played I've beaten my fair share

Fast Cavalry: Fast cavalry are an annoyance but my boar boy big 'uns and waaagh! banner deal with these more often than not, the extra movement the banner grants can prove a real difference

Wood Elves: I haven't played a wood elf list so I don't know how I'd do against one

Overcoming Flaws:I deal with the flaws of the 'Ardboyz list by playing to the main strength of the list - It's combat ability, as such I try to get into combat as quickly as possible - this is made easier if you get hand of gork from the effigy for a couple of units

Big 'Un Numbers: in my usual 2,500pt list I run 2x units of 12 boar boy big 'uns and have proved a game winner for me on many an occaision

yes it has it's flaws but everything has it's weaknesses, the main thing is I have a ball playing an 'ardboyz army and wouldn't have it any other way

hope I've helped answer some of your questions

DocFool
26-07-2005, 02:09
In regards to arrer boys, I would never attempt to base an army around them, but if you have the models and 100 or so points left over, why not? One of the draws of orks and gobbos for me is the sheer amount of things you can cram into an army list.

Orcdom
26-07-2005, 02:52
a hundred points will buy a couple spear chukkas (almost 3)
or add 20 more points and get 2 gobbo chariots
or 1 orc chariot
or about 30 or 40 gobbos (dont under estimate da lads.)
or quite a few snotlings
or doom diver
or even a lobba.

gotta love the little greenies too, dey will scrap with da rest ov um, mebe not the best, but will work well.

Steve

gorenut
26-07-2005, 04:30
I like using wolfriders in units of 5 so I only equip them with spears and a musician, maybe a shields because they look better that way. As for light armor, I don't like it since it removes their fast calvary rules.

I don't use bows because it seems like a waste of points. You won't hit much with the range and movement penalities. Also, 5 shots aren't going to do a heck of a lot. Maybe for mage hunting it would be good?

Well those are my thoughts anyways.

Agreed on the bows.. especially with the poor arnament and low BS. However, I can see why some people may lose the fast cavalry option. I might actually prefer to go for bigger squads and giving them light armor allows them to get rank bonus. The thought behind this.. gobbos have low Ld.. there are big chances they won't rally when fleeing.. and they move far! Which can cause panic amongst other gobbos as well.

nurgle_boy
26-07-2005, 09:27
rigth, as im putting together a 3k army, how many models should i have?

ive maxed out on lords+heros, because savage orc characters can be cheap but effective, but the shamans are costly, but i spent less thatn a 3rd on characters

ive got a big unit of 29savage orc biguns, 6x5 with the warboss in, and 2 of 25 5x5 each delivering a character. then i have 2 units of 20 night gobbos, 10x2 as fanatic launchers, and i may give them bows, and one of 23 with the great shaman in, ranked 6x4 or 4x6.

1 of 15 wolfies, with light armour, spear, shield, and command, and 2 of 5, with bows, working as bait, rank negators, and march blockers.

then i have 6 spear chukkas, and 4 gobbo chariots.

is it enought, considering my main enemies will be ogres, empire (likely a gunline) and skaven (almost a SAD army, with jezzails and WLC)

Alex
26-07-2005, 10:33
Agreed on the bows.. especially with the poor arnament and low BS. However, I can see why some people may lose the fast cavalry option. I might actually prefer to go for bigger squads and giving them light armor allows them to get rank bonus. The thought behind this.. gobbos have low Ld.. there are big chances they won't rally when fleeing.. and they move far! Which can cause panic amongst other gobbos as well.

Bows look attractive at first glance, for mage and war-machine hunting, being fast cavalry they can easily move around and shoot, and shoot freely in all directions. But when you think about it, they are always gonna fire at long range and when moving, so statistically a unit of 5 would land less than one shot each turn, and that shot will be at S 3, that don't even kill the feeblest of mages. And if you are in bow range, you might as well charge the enemy, you'll do more damage that way, and you got a longer charge range than you got range with the bows anyways.

I can also see a point in taking light armour, if you use a big unit as a fighting regiment of medium cavalry, and don't really intend to zip about the flanks and harass the enemy you can do without the fast cavalry rule. The light armour though may prove to be useful, boosting a feeble save of 5+ to a considerably more useful save of 4+.
I am thinking of using such a unit myself (after I have painted enough wolfies) just to get into action fast, come to think of it, you can field it only 4 models wide, and make a unit of 16. Put a full command in there, and a big boss with a spear and you'll have a quite nice hitting regiment on the charge, and you will get the charge! They will also have 3 ranks, standard and a nice unit size of 32. Of course they are gonna be shot at, but only for one round, and actually for what they do, they are really cheap, like 270 points, and that is including the boss! I'm thinking if you charge in conjunction with a wolf chariot or two, or with a smaller unit of wolfies flanking the enemy unit, you could bowl most regiments over in the first turn.

The drawback is that both you and the opponent need to deploy very close to each other to get that 2nd turn charge I want. At least if you want to do a chariot assault, since the stupid contraptions cannot march (9" + 18" = 27").

On the Arrer boyz:

I think, as Orcdom pointed out that there are a lot more useful units to take if you got a 100 points lying around, although a lot of the units he mentioned are special choices. But for 100 points I think I rather just grab a few more wolfies than the Arrers.
But I guess I have to make a few arrer models and try them out sometime before I diss them completely, that is a future project though. ^^

nurgle_boy
26-07-2005, 16:39
are arrer boyz any good, as you get them in the battalion, but im not sure i want savage orcs with bows....

i could always kix them with other units, treating the bows as extra hand weapons (big sticks) and use spare bow+quiver bitz from the gobbos on the others, so i have enough for a pair of units of 20.

whaddayathink?

also, an opinion on the number of orcs neaded in 3k would be nice.

Orcdom
26-07-2005, 21:42
dont need no stinkin bossy orc, alls yous need isss usses little boyz be cuz we is sneekier.

more goblins.
stick a couple goblin big bosses in a mob of 'ard boys, (gobbos with hand weapon/LA and shield) and they will do wonders, better yet take the night gobbos. good excuse for a couple finatics and mad cap mushrooms.

Steve

Naghaz
28-07-2005, 21:20
I've been playing around with the idea of building a Black Orc force ala the Storm of Chaos list (cant find the download rules anymore so I've ordered the book).

Any tips from those who have experience with them? The idea of an army of Black Orcs is just...very cool in my opinion.

Alex
29-07-2005, 12:13
I know this already has been discussed a bit but...

I am pondering how to equip my Big Uns models (I know there are no specific models for em, but I gonna try and make some Orc models look a bit tougher and have them as Big Uns). I don't know if I should put spears or 2-hand weapons on them. Both cost the same, but with spears I also have the option of taking shields for +1 point. In drawn out battles spears are better, since I am likely to strike last and want as few attacks lost as possible. Spears are also better used in conjunction with Noggs banner (an extra +10 attacks instead of +5 as with 2hand-weapons). 2 Hand-weapons are a lot better the first turn though, if I get the charge. Also I like the look of it better, it feels 'Orcier'.

So any recommendations? I usually play vs. Dwarfs and Skaven, and sometimes vs. Chaos, Dark Elves and High Elves. Am thinking 2hand-weapon probably the best choice vs. the dwarfs, not sure about the other opponents really.

nurgle_boy
29-07-2005, 15:35
well, it seems that you play a lot of T3 armies, so additional hw would dish out more attacks, and therefor cause more wounds, although, these T3 armies are all faater than you, so spears would be better...

its a tough choice to make,but spears would perform better overall.

as for models, why not have t so you can vary. have a short spear as one of the hand weapons, a shield on their back, so you can just use whatever....

DocFool
29-07-2005, 22:02
My advice is, give yourself options. Big 'uns are cheap [relatively speaking] no matter what. By giving them spears, and shields at your option, you can always choose to use the spear when charged or you need to stall, or switch it out for a basic choppa if you get the charge or face something especially tough. I do the same thing for my dwarf warriors who are kitted out with heavy armor, shields, and great weapons, and make up for their lack of initiative through tactical flexibility.

That being said, there is still something awfully tempting about double weapons on the charge.

nurgle_boy
30-07-2005, 06:47
i tend to take double weapons with my savage biguns, but thats just because they generally have enough attacks at good strength to kill, or at least rack up a bit of combat res with the wounds...

Alex
30-07-2005, 23:30
Thanks for the input.

Hmm...

I'm leaning to giving them spears actually. The option to give em shields, and the better attack return when models are slain will be worth it more than a mighty charge. Especially since the only army I play vs that I can charge is Dwarfs, and I won't break a dwarf block in the charge anyways.

nurgle_boy
31-07-2005, 09:11
ok, well, i play savages, so im not perfect on orc boyz and equipping them.

im off today to play (read-win) some games with my savages and night gobbos...
probebly going to play ogres, and maybe some empire..

pillbox
26-08-2005, 07:59
hey guys, long time orc and gobbo player, thought i'd impart some eadbashin wisdom. we play mostly 2500 pts and i never leave home without 3 big units of boyz
24 orc boyz with shields and command accompanied by orc warlord with 5+ ward save and GW
24 orc bigunz with spears shield command and banner of butchery (+1 A with 2 ranks is nasty)
20-24 black orcs with shield command and warbanner accompanied by BSB with sword of might and 1+ save
All are deployed 5x5 (i found 5 a good compromise on ranks, size and frontage) and are within 12 inches of each other for ld9 rerollable break test. each unit is a daunting prospect to take on and requires a lot of shooting to weaken.

in between or outside these 3 units come a unit of 30 gobbos with shields, these guys are awesome, and a unit of 36 night gobbos with spears carrying 2 fanatics. i found 3 makes the unit to expensive (i only use spears coz i have the models and like em). a nice trick with these guys is when the opponent comes within 8 inch and fanatics are released charge next turn through any slow fanatics. if your unit does run through a fanatic a panic test is still unlikely (hey six dead gits, damn) and you might catch your opponent flatfooted. i did this against a beast army, running through my fanatics with the nightgobbos into the screamers exactly 8 inches away who were killed through combat reso in one turn, letting my night gobbos overrun into a unit of centigors and took them down too!

based around my centre of 130 orcs and gobbos i take 2 units of 5 wolf riders with spears, shields and muso, 2 wolf chariots, 1 boar chariot 6 boar boyz with command and a snottie pump wagon. these are on the flanks and are designed to smash my opponents flanking units before he smashes mine - the extra charge distance of the wolfriders and wolf riders is pure gold and people seem to underestimate the combat effectiveness of wolfriders, combine em with a chariot and they should take down most flankers. if i win the battle for the flanks its just a matter of flank charges on the enemy units the boyz will now be engaged with in the middle as these 3 units have a fair chance of holding against most armies infantry, as well as 2 units of gobbos to bait with if there is anything particularly tough.
to help lessen the shooting casualties i take a giant, if ever a model has a target on his forehead it's the giant. i use this to my advantage though as while all shooting is directed at the giant it's leaving wolf riders, chariots and large blocks of boys unmolested and ready to get into optimum position with minimum disruption. to emphasise the threat i dispel all serious damage spells directed at him in the first 2 turns, as he's 12 inch charge puts him in the thick of things by turn 2. getting my giant into combat is a bonus however, especially as a regular opponent is a 13pd skaven army.
2 lvl 2 wizards round off my army (one night gobbo for his magic mushie of course)
oh and snotties 4 bases provide a suitable tarpit for the army, and it's always a laugh when you take down some censer bearers with em.
anyway thats my 2 cents, hopefully theres something wothwhile in there

nurgle_boy
26-08-2005, 10:06
eek, its an attack of the threadomancers!

this thread died a long time ago, and as good a thread as it WAS, it should be layed to rest... unless theres is too strong a resistance to me shutting this thread, it will be done...

NB. thread owner...

Alex
26-08-2005, 14:45
A thread like this should not be allowed to die. ;)

Btw, Nurgleboy, how is that tactica you were gonna write up coming along?

Boomstar
26-08-2005, 18:55
OH good an orc tactica was lookin for this ;) .

nurgle_boy
26-08-2005, 19:13
ok, ok, i spoke too soon, it is a good thread ;)
we all better thanks the dude who started it ;)

as for my tactica, ive not had a chance yet! ive been bogged down writing my own armies background, and army lists, and playinb in a ordhiem campaign, as well as painting squigs, and sculpting orc pimps!

whew.. im too busy for all of it... and ive got a 3k game set for sunday... in fact, check out the list in fantasy army lists...

and boomstar, im glad you found what you were looking for :D

Orcdom
26-08-2005, 20:24
i dont know why you dont like older threads poping up, this is the second one i have seen you post the thead o mancy comment. also this keeps from rehashing all the same stuff on 20 new different threads about the same thing. my opinion if people dont want to see old threads, then unsubscribe from them.

this thread and others has some very good info on them, its just not everyone can get to it to post every day to keep it going.
Steve

WraithKnight
27-08-2005, 22:21
Venomizer, and/or any others who play the 'Ardboyz list, I have a two questions:
-How many dispell dice do you find is enough againts most armies? (@1500 & 2000pts)
-Do you use Giants/Are they worth it?

devolutionary
28-08-2005, 01:45
Yeah Nurgle, I thought the general opinion of the mods around here was that you dont need to start a new thread if an older one still exists, simply append and carry on as always. Dont try to bring down our parade man! :D

I will be posting here as soon as I investigate Orcs and Gobbos more completely to see if I like them enopugh to collect them. More soon ;)

Orcdom
28-08-2005, 08:59
wth O&G the trick to playing them, win or lose:
1. is have fun
2. never and i mean never expect you plans to go right
3. always expect your trolls to go stupid
4. always expect animosity to hit you at least twice
5. never expect to get them painted anytime soon.
6. your opponets will always either curse you or laugh at you, no middle ground
7. have fun

when all else fails refer to rules number 1 and 7

but if you dont want to paint loads of green figs, dont buy them. every time i sit down to paint a mob, i say "why and the hell did i ever start this army?"
i have been using them for almost 15 years and am getting somewhere between 8 and 10,000 points of that i can field 4,000 without bringing a single orc.

they was the first army i started with and my favorite armies of all of the GW systems that i play, painting them is the only drawback when you have them.
i play mostly goblin armies as you can tell. they are a little trickier to use, but even more rewarding.
when i first started i used the black orcs as a crutch, taking loads of them as characters to try to fend off the animosity, but found its not really that bad, embrace it, esp when you fail your animosity check and then roll a 6 to get an extra move.

they did away with the forest goblins and god only knows why (rumor they sorta might come back), they had the best shaman, couldnt hardly die from eadbanging (for a gobbo), and spider riders for walking over castle walls.
there is a few things that were better in the older editions but they are still a fun army to use.
BTW i am looking for any of the old metal night goblins to ass to my night goblin horde if any of ya want to trade them off (i know thats streachin a bit but thought i would ask anyways)

Steve

nurgle_boy
28-08-2005, 09:10
ok,ok i spoe a little swiftly, i should think before posting.
though for my doom diver one, its had been months, and the project had ended long ago.

still, i apologise for posting hastily, and would like to get back in on the conversation.

right, against ogres. all i can say, is get them running, and fast, as they hit helluvahard in combat, as my black orcs found out (only staying from a pased leadership of 4!).

this is where bolt throwers come in. not only to they whittle down, and frighten, they can, if your lucky and good with your deployment, fire a bolt straight through theyre entire frontage, killing (this is where luch and averages come in) anything from 2-4 ogres, with a volly of 2-3 bolt thrower shots, and the ogre movement means that they get into short range fast!

im playing a 3k game VS ogres today, 1500pts used by a good tactition, who ive only beaten once (out of 3 games) badly, and one slightly new ogre player, who is good, but gets beaten everytime.

and now thinking like a goblin, its a case of take advantage and exploit mistakes, whilst countering their moves.

and for gos sake, SHIELD THE HITTY UNITS!
if their leadbelchers get into range, and get decent hits, there go those orcs/biguns/boarboyz/woflies/black orcs/whatever!

but still, a well aimed bolt thrower or 2, and a baiting unit to charge first, should stop them.

in the game today, im with my friend, who has a strange luck with dice, in the ability to miscast, then roll a volly of 6's, followed by a 1 (not so lucky! *splat*). were splitting the forces, so we each use what were good with. he takes the pair of giants (or 1 giant, night gobos, and more wolfies) the wolf riders, and we split the magic and bolt throwers depending on whos had the best luck.
or we may drop the giants altogether and take mroe wolfies, and3 fanatic bombs.

still, the list is posted in the army lists forums, and the results will be posted later tonight (about 9PM, gmt+1)

well then fellow greenies, wish me luck, and keep your blue painted fingers crossed!

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*runs off to paint arms blue*

nurgle_boy
28-08-2005, 09:21
ah yes, the old painting of orcs, good point there orcdom, and good top 7 tips.
all so very true!

if you get bored of painting green green green green, give some of the lads a different skin tone. in the old wfrp book, it said their skin can vary from flueoresent, to a dark brown!
and of course, theres all of the unexplored places, paint albino orcs, red orcs, blue orcs, any orcs! just like goblins, theres so many different kinds (although its sorta ruins the whole green tide idea...)


and i can
say to treat animosity, not as a brden, but as a reward. yes, you may have your units squabbling or even fighting, but when you roll that wonderull 6, you see the rewards!
boar boyz going 28" in a turn? works for me! black orcs going 16"? awsome!

as for plans going right, dont make me laugh, it'll never happen, unless you play pure black orcs (but thats no fun! randomness is one of the best bitz!).
also, expect plans gone wrong to get dangerous if you take big squig herds, or fanatics, or lots of magic, or warmachines, or animosity units, or pumpers, or... hell, the list goes on. all greenies are unreliable, but its worth it. fielding a rewarding army, that performs differently every game.

still, just remember to shout a big WAAAAAGH! and wear something blue.
blue is the colour of the godz!

Alex
28-08-2005, 13:22
and i can
say to treat animosity, not as a brden, but as a reward. yes, you may have your units squabbling or even fighting, but when you roll that wonderull 6, you see the rewards!
boar boyz going 28" in a turn? works for me! black orcs going 16"? awsome!



Not to be picky, but after a roll of 6, you only get to make a full normal move, not a march move. So that means 21" for the boar boyz, and 12" for the black orcs. It's still nice though. Has one me entire games at times. ^^

Venomizer
28-08-2005, 15:10
Venomizer, and/or any others who play the 'Ardboyz list, I have a two questions:
-How many dispell dice do you find is enough againts most armies? (@1500 & 2000pts)
-Do you use Giants/Are they worth it?

for your first question..........I have at most 3-4 dispel dice, not alot but it's enough for me - for this black orc characters and an effigy of gork come into their own since you gain an additional DD for every black orc character within a certain range of the effigy (can't remember exactly)

if magic defense is an issue you could always employ the scroll caddie (as much as I detest them)


the Giant, they are good for keeping fire away from your boyz and are decent to hit units in the flanks with but besides they are too unpredictable to do anything of significant use

Orcdom
28-08-2005, 17:17
the only problem with BO characters is you get less of them. that is another reason i play all gobbo. more characters for lack of usefullness.

as for the large squig heards, mine has 18 squigs and 5 hoppers and i usually bust them loose the first chance i get if i am trying to keep the enemy from charging, i occasionally use them to charge with the 2 str 5 attacks ea. but not against something they have any chance of the world losing too.

the 2 giant idea, oh yea. playing against ogres, i havent played against them yet but a giants move of 6 and terror ought to help out a little even tho ogres should only fear him.
Steve

Ribbo
28-08-2005, 19:35
If you cause terror... how are they going to cause you fear?.. :confused:

nurgle_boy
28-08-2005, 19:41
AHA! a victory!
1st turns went to him, and he managed to get enough str2 hits to destroy a gobbo chariots. our turn came, not much eventfull untill shooting, when we began to hurt the rhinox riders, bulls with bruiser, and ironguts with tyrant.

his turn two involved the drawing out of some fanatics with trappers in woods, but one got splatted, and the other two moved out in from of his butcher, bulls, and next to the remaining ironguts and tyrant. although one stopped 2 2 away from the night gobbos, not dfoing much. nothing else really happened. all his charges and movement was blocked on one board side, and the other side just did some moving. and stupidly, he used his sharp stuff on the fanatic closest to our night goblin unit, letting us move.


our turn two, we managed to whittle stuff down, and get ready to hold against some charges. a few magic missles and bolt thrower shots later, and his bulls were less than half strength, and the ironguts were all gone, but for the tyrant. a few wounds knocked off the rhinoxen, and gnoblars via shortbows later, it was his turn again.

he charged hi yhettees into a night goblin unit, and they amazingly passed theor fear test (brave little guys :D), and held, whilst his tyrant hit another gobbos unit, and and the trappers popped out of the wood, only to be hit by a fanatic, and flee, and the other 2 fanatic spread out in front of the other bulls, and rhinoxen. the combats didnt go to well, with the night goblin surviving from the tyrant, usin the gnerals leaderhip, but with the night gobbos fleeing from the yheteehs, and running faster than them.

on our turn 3 (i think) everything was lined up to WAAaaGH into place (we got lucky rolling for spells) when we miscast the shaman, and he effectivly was turned into a squig.still, we held against the charges that were to come, whilst blasting out magic missles, and hitting rhinoxen with the bolt throwers.

his turn four, and his other bulls charge the night gobbos, that had rallieghed, and the rhinoxen hitting the savage orcs, and the hunters puppies, (after a huge debate and him calling us bad sports, when he either had to move, and not let his puppies go, or let them rip, and not shoot, when he had rolled to hit... him ranting for 5 minutes before giving up, makes me wonder whos the bad sport after all!) and bruiser hit the black orcs, and managed to hold out, before he gave up, out of fury, and went out to sulk and whine.

all in all, we lost around 300-400pts, and he lost aroud 2000-2500 before giving up.

a solid massacre! and it tuns out hes a rather bad sport.
if you wondered why i refered to me, as we, i was teamed up with my friend, ribbo (called ribbo on the forums) as effectivly in games, he is mork, and im gork.
we tend to let him roll miscasts as he has an innate ability to roll 6's...

well, i learned that you shouldnt rely on a great shaman to do a black orcs job, and that night goblins minus their fanatics arent that bad.

i also found out that dropping a giant or 2, means a change in the army list, namely, a bunch of night gobbos, and that wolfboyz work best in support, and weak unit destroying (ie gnobbos)
also, small children are annoying, and bad sports suck...

well, any questions about the game or tactics used (mainly adorning myself in warpaint and shouting loudly (ribbo can conferm this), whist turning to gork and mork for support) are welcome.

oh, and for the victory...

...WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ribbo
28-08-2005, 19:47
Exactly. Lol Gnobbos.

WraithKnight
29-08-2005, 00:14
If you cause terror... how are they going to cause you fear?.. :confused:
He meant that the ogres would only fear the Giant because they normally cause fear themselves (which the Giant would be immune to)

Orcdom
29-08-2005, 02:06
yes thats what i was trying to get across, it, i guess wasnt spelled out exactly.
and BTW good job on your win for the waaaagh.

in my goblin horde i use a 7x7 goblin mob core with army Battle Standard (w/raggedy banner) and Goblin Warboss in that mob and sometimes a great weapon weilding big boss.
but the mob is armed - spears, light armor and shield. 49 gobbos will scare the bejesus out of most players, and has quite a bit of staying power with LD 9.

then marching along side is a 60 strong night goblin archer mob, nice to have 15 wide and still have a full rank bonus. large frontal to release finatics and if you have to kill one you get 15 shots to do it with.

gobbos and large mobs will even scare skaven players.


Steve

Ribbo
29-08-2005, 16:56
With those 15 shots to kill the fanatic only like 3 will hit lol :/ (Thanks btw) :D

Orcdom
30-08-2005, 01:47
i thought 3 was their BS, so that means 7.5 should hit and half again of that should wound.

Steve

nurgle_boy
30-08-2005, 09:40
fanatics are single targets, -1 to hit ;)

Orcdom
31-08-2005, 01:19
ok sorry,forgot, hit 5 then kill 2.5
it should still be dead.
Steve

Alex
31-08-2005, 20:58
(whine)

Arghhh... about that animosity. I just played a game which made me start hating this rule. 1000p, vs 1000p dwarfs. I had 6 regiments, of course I have to be able to take a few animosity test failiures... but this was the worst battle ever. I estimate I failed about 40-50% of all my animosuty rolls.
I had 2 regiments of 5 wolfies, 2 regiments of 20 night gobbos, one with 3 fanatics, one with no fnaatics. I had a largish unit of common gobs with light armour + shield. And a largish unit of Orcs. I had a Orc Hero, a night gobbo hero and a gobbo hero. I also had a doom diver and a rock lobber. (I know, not a ultimate army composition, but I don't have all the models I want as of yet...) This is what happened...

First turn, I fail animosity on both wolf rider regiments (one of them blocked my night gobbo fanatic regiment so it was also locked to move (I had limited space, had to deploy like that). I also failed animosity on the other night gobbo regiment, and the gobbo regiment. Only regiment free to move was the Orcs. Fortunately my opponent played agressive dwarfs, so I just held my line, let him move forward. My Stone thrower killed 7 dwarfs, my doom diver missed.

My 2nd turn, I only fail like one animosity test, this was by far the best turn. I move up my wolfies so to be able to charge his gyrocopter, I move up the rest of my army. Shooting kills one slayer (the dwarf had a slayer regiment on his flank, so flanking him would not work, he also had 2 clansmen regiments, a gyro and a regiment thunderers. He had a Thane for general.).
My turn 3 was also a decent turn, I move up my night gobbos against a dwarf unit, 3 fanatics pop out, all land in between our 2 units. I move up my Orcs and gobs to charge a unit of clansmen (with orcs) and slayers (with gobbos, ordinary common gobs are aces on fighting slayers, the can even come out on top, and they cost almost a 4th of the price!!!) My last night gobbo unit march towards his thunderers. My wolfies, decimated by gyro shots, move to block his slayers so they can't move, my other unit tries to keep his gyro busy.
His 4th turn he don't do very much, he is pretty locked up where he is, preparing to be charged.
My 4th turn, I fail animosity on the night gobbos facing his clansmen, and also on my other gobbo regiment, possibly even the last night gobbos failed. A charge with the Orcs now would have resulted in me being outflanked by slayers and clansmen next turn, so I held...
His 5th turn he moved up into charge range for him.
My 5th I failed animosity on both Night gobbos, and the regular gobbos, this resulting in me not being to reach the thunderers even in turn 6, also resulting in me not being able to charge the slayers to keep em busy. My night gobs facing the clansmen got a "We'll show em" result and moved up to block them of, as I intended to do anyways.
By now I was so incredibly annoyed that I declared a charge with my Orcs, hoping to break the clansmen in round 1, or else I would be flanked by the slayers (since my gobs refused to move 2 turns in a row).
I charge in, I got the advantage of having one more rank, and outnumbering bonus. He has a thane (+1 save, re-roll), I have a Orc hero with great axe and 1+ save. I also have a night gob char with wollopas one-hit wunda.
I challenge with my night gob, his thane accpets. I roll 2 hits, re-roll for hatred and miss. I raise my S to 7, dishing out 2 wounds. He now has 5+ save, with re-roll. He misses the first 2, but manages to save both wounds on 5+ with re-roll. My Orcs with choppa + my champion fails to kill a single dwarf. My Orc hero with his 3 attacks, that hit on 3+ manages to roll 3 2s, missing all attacks.
His thane kills my night gobbo with 2 wounds. This miserable round of fighting still makes me win the round with 1. He unsurprisingly holds.
After that I get flanked (obviously), my Orcs get broken and killed, causing panic in both my gobbo regiments, which fail to rally last turn.
All in all, he gets 1355 points, I get 140, for nailing his gyro last turn with doom diver (I hit it with both diver and thrower turn before, not making a single wound (rolled a 1 on my stonethrower to wound roll).

Lesson learned? Bring black orcs!!!

Games like this makes me wanna shoot myself in the head.

(Rant Over)

nurgle_boy
31-08-2005, 22:45
well, as handy as gobbos are, you need to get some more orcs..
lots more orcs.

unless you intend to play gobbos, in which case, more gobbos, night gobbos, wolfies, squigs, and other nasty thngs..

otherwise, orcs.

big blocks of 25-30, and about 2-3 of them. i use 2x25 savages, and one 30 of black. this backed up by enough flanking and baiting unts , so as i can keep units runnig, get extra combat res, and generaly cause mayhem...


as for black orcs, yes, thaye helluvagood, but they work depending on what you gear them up with. 2HW is what i use, so they dish out a helluvalot of attacks, abliet at a low str... GW are better for smaller support units, as they hit hard, but cant win combats on theyre own. sheer lack of attacks, although what they hit, dies, and stays dead.

HW&SH is a little useless... and you end up with a unit of poor chaos warriors, or at least the equivilant of...

as for the commen orcs, go with choppa&shield, spear&shield, or even (i say this to avians disgust) 2 HW!
i take the opposite aproch to him it seems... i prefer to maximise attacks rather than strength... with a good frontage, you can cause some damage...

Orcdom
01-09-2005, 01:17
us gobbos dont need no stinkin orcs boss'n usses rounds.


(whine)

Arghhh... about that animosity. I just played a game which made me start hating this rule. 1000p, vs 1000p dwarfs. I had 6 regiments, of course I have to be able to take a few animosity test failiures... but this was the worst battle ever. I estimate I failed about 40-50% of all my animosuty rolls.
I had 2 regiments of 5 wolfies, 2 regiments of 20 night gobbos, one with 3 fanatics, one with no fnaatics. I had a largish unit of common gobs with light armour + shield. And a largish unit of Orcs. I had a Orc Hero, a night gobbo hero and a gobbo hero. I also had a doom diver and a rock lobber. (I know, not a ultimate army composition, but I don't have all the models I want as of yet...) This is what happened...

(Rant Over)

your mistake was taking too many small mobs, 1000 points i might have 3 gobbo mobs that has a chance to be subject to animosity

you should have combined the 2 night goblin mobs esp since your not taking finatics in both. the keeping them guessing strategy dont work. with gobbos its all or nothing. you either win big or lose big, very seldom a close battle.

your non movement when your wolfies failed their animosity test was not the worst thing, taking 2-5 wolf mobs in 1000 points, more checks you roll for.
usually when i have more than 1 mob that fails an animosity check, i dont necessairly move the rest of the line.

try your gobbo mobs at 30 minimum, idealy 40+ because at 20, 5 dead at range and your taking panic checks. with 40 you need to lose 10.
and at these point levels chariots will perform better than wolfs for what your doing with them and IIRC warmachines (chariots incl arent subject to animosity)
i know you may not have all of these extra models, but orcs arent always the answer nor are black orcs esp at 1000 points.

your wolf mobs did you also include the musician? should have been the only command upgrade for them in that mob size, should have actually used full command w/spears and the mob as 10 and not 2 of 5 but to each their own.
also if you had taken all gobbo characters you could have gotten an extra character.

also try goblin big boss as your gen (whatever for magic items)
goblin big boss as your BSB with raggedy banner +1 LD (keep in gobbo mob with general)
1 lvl 2 shaman
1 night gobbo big boss with mad cap mushroom and GW

if you really feel the need to run 2 mobs of night gobbos at 20 ea, drop one finatic on one mob and put it in the other.

just my 2 cents

Steve

Alex
01-09-2005, 08:09
Well, I used muso in wolfies, I used small units of night gobbos since they were mainly thought of as "go and die" units, I find these useful to sacrifice since they only cost 44 points (with muso) and won't cause panic in the rest of the army. I didn't want fanatics in both since I wanted one to be more flexible in movement, and not stop as soon as they get into 8".
Chariots I don't have...

Sure, it was a risky army, I am well aware, but I used a similar one to great sucess also (massacre for me :D) but then I didn't fail all the important animosity rolls (only some of them, and that can always be countermeasured).
I won't be using Black Orc units in 1000p battles though, I was thinking possibly a hero.
Ain't got enough Orcs atm though, but I found that vs dwarfs Orcs are not much better in combat than common goblins, they still have animosity and they are double the cost.

Well...
hopefully next battle will go better. ;)

Orcdom
01-09-2005, 21:52
but the advantage of stopping at 8" is them having to stop and not usually following through with their charge, and using a large mob of night gobbos, you can afford to take the hit of their own finatics because you have the option of finishing your charge if your getting stopped at 8" anyways because of charging your going to fail because you were more than your charge distance away in the first place.

the only unit in your army not subject to panic is the 1 mob of orcs.
like i said before tho, you either win big or lose big.

Steve

Kyuss
13-12-2005, 20:55
"Ah its alive!".....

I know Threadcromancy is bad but:-

a) only vaguely on topic thread when I searched for "orc tactica"

b) I'm seriously thinking of dipping my toes into fantasy water with them, after flirtations with Lizardmen and Wood Elves (anything involving green in some form...even last edition....)


The tactics in this thread are good for people who have a strong grasp of fantasy orcyness, but what about beginners like me? I like the character, but I would like a 'fun' army to start with before I move onto hardness (so I can learn and understand the rules really).


Thoughts?



Kyuss

Verergoca
13-12-2005, 22:17
Hmmm... Somehow, there is something appealing on O&G...

I'm currently pondering on the usefullness of a Mountain Orc horde (designed for 2250 pts games).

Basically a bunch of Orc's (75, in 3 units) 60 NG's (2 units, with just 2 fanatics (:eek: )) and 18 wolfriders (3 units, 5,5,8, with the bigger one including a hero), and on the more special stuff, some snotties (4 bases), a squig herd (12 squigs, 13 herders) and 2 rock lobbers, and 1 doom diver...

Then on the heroic part of the game, 1 Orc Warboss, with some nice stuff, 1 goblin Big boss, on wolf, 1 goblin shaman, on wolf and a NG shaman...

Does this horde qualify as "evil" or something like that?

Orcdom
14-12-2005, 01:06
Baaah get rid of dem damed orcses, we neeky gitz dont need no orcs bossin usses arounds.

seriously tho, if you have the time, patience and willingness to paint up a2-300 goblins go all goblin. you get an extra character for each 1000 points you have if all of your characters are gobbos.
a goblin warboss and a goblin big boss BSB with red raggedy banner (+1LD) gives a good LD. and get you a couple maybe 3 shamans and the rest chars in big bosses.

Most wouldnt consider it beardy bringing maxed amount of characters with a all gobbo army because they are cheap.

stick a mob of trolls in there, a giant, about 4 bolt throwers (leave the stone throwers and doom divers at home), and get some chariots and maybe pump wagons.

you have cheap warmachines and cheap troops.
goblins in large mobs work wonders 35 minimum, i recommend 40+
i have a
7x7 common gobbo mob spear, LA, Sh
5x7 Common goblin mob, HW, LA, SH
5x7 NG mob spears, finatics
9x5 NG mob bow, finatics (wide frontage helps with deploying finatics where you want them to go)
7x5 NG mob with HW, Sh, finatics
6x7 NG mob with spear, finatics
5x4 Ng mob with bows, finatics (waiting till i come across more OOP metal NG 's with bows)
squig herd with 18+ squigs and 5+ hoppers, about 8 herders.

i like my gobbos

i win way more games than i lose with them. the only thing i have yet to add to my orc and goblin army is 2 more gobbo chariots (i only have 2 at the present time)
and a second giant
i have plenty of trolls, 6 of both flavors
plenty of orcs, black orcs, savage orcs, biguns, and so on.

i dont have but maybe a dozen arrerboys, becuse i dont like the idea of orc archers. i liked them when savage orcs could skirmish at one time, then they were viable. but not now.

Steve

MadJackMcJack
18-12-2005, 10:03
I like to have 2 small units of arrer boyz (say 10-15) stay back with the war machines. They can cause a little damage with their bows, and more importantly, can "discourage" most fliers from going after the war machines, as only flying monsters can handle a group of boyz smacking them about.

Kyuss
18-12-2005, 12:44
Eh up,

Here's the list I've drawn up, mainly through what looks good, rather than actually tactical planning. If you could poke holes in it that would be great.

LORD

Orc Warboss: Great Weapon (GW), Boss 'At, Dead 'Ard Armour 171

HEROES

Big Boss Battle Standard Bearer: Light Armour (LA), Banner of Butchery 117

Orc Shaman: Lvl 2, Wotnotz 125

Orc Shaman: Lvl 2, Doo Dahs 125

CORE

29 Orcs: Spears, Shields, Full Command (FC). With Warboss. 260

29 Orcs: Spears, Shields, FC. Bigun's. With Big Boss 318

10 Wolf Riders: Bows, Spears, Shields, Musician. 126

30 Night Goblins: Spears, FC. 8 Netters, 2 Fanatics.

SPECIAL

20 Black Orcs: GW, Shields. FC. 293

Rock Lobba: Bully. 75

2x Spear Chukka: Bully. 80

RARE

Doom Diver: Bully 85

Snotling Pump Wagon 40



This is the Basic Battleline I have in my head.

______Chukka__________Lobba________Doom Diver_______Chukka
SPW__________Shaman______Shaman
Wolfs______Orcs______Big'Uns_______Black Orcs______Night Goblins


________________________Enemy_____________________ ______


Thoughts?

zak
18-12-2005, 14:59
I have been playing Orcs and Goblins for about 15 years. So here are a few pearls for those new to the Horde.

LORDS - Don't even think about going for a great shaman unless you have the option for two Lords. The sheer killing power of an Orc Lord cannot be turned down in a 2000 point game. Plus the additional LD bonus is very important in a low leadership army. As for the choice of type of Lord...thats tricky. A BO Lord is a combat monster but eats in to your hero slots so he tends to be left at home unless I'm playing over 2500-3000 point games. I usually plump for the SO Lord due to his killing power, but a common Orc Lord is still not to be messed with. I have never used a Goblin Lord so can't really comment.
BOSS/SHAMAN - I tend to go for two Shamans in a 2000 point game due to most of my oponents taking magic heavy armies and I have to admit that I do give them as many scrolls as possible. I sometimes use a Night goblin shaman, but usually plump for two SO Shamans. As for the bosses I usually have one spot left for a juicy SO boss.
CORE -
This in an area where O+G are spoilt for choice. Over the years I used pretty much all of them. The average Orc is very good for his points and will stand up to most things thrown at him. As you may have guessed I love SOrcs. Give them an extra HW and see them chop through most opponents. You have to be warey though of wiley opponents trying to lead them away due to their frenzy. WARPAINT - Just love it! The amount of cannon balls that have jusy bounced off these guys is incredible!
The Gobbo's are often looked upon as second rate...and in many ways they are. That said they are often the units that win the game when my opponent dismisses/overlooks them. I have only used common Gobbo's sparingly as Night Goblins IMHO are just better. I use big units (atleast 25 possibly 30 min) and use netters and fanatics to add to their potency. Just don't worry too much if the unit gets pulverised as the Orcs just don't care, and there dirt cheap!
I'll just add a little bit about BIG'UNs here as I alaways, always upgrade a unit. IT REALLY IS A MUST!! There will be many arguments as to what unit is best to upgrade. I use a unit of 25 Savage Orcs with 2 h/w.
WOLFBOYZ - As said before, WB are absolutely great. You can use them in one of two ways. Either as small units to hug the flanks or as cheap cavalary in units of 10+. If you can afford it have both! You have to be careful with the small units though, as with low ld they only need to take a couple of casualties before running for the hills.
Arrerboyz. I love them. I usually take a unit of 10 SOrc archers and use them as protection for my warmachines. They pack a punch if needed and have often disposed of annoying flyers with a few lucky shots.
Snotlings....enough said...moving on.
SPECIAL -
Again spoilt for choice. BOrcs are again a unit that I always take. They are not the greatest elite unit, but your enemy will do everything he can to get rid of them leaving the rest of your army free to advance in to a good position. I like to give my BO extra hand weapons as the extra strength is often wasted against most of my opponents.
I really, really like Wolf chariots. You can have 2 chariots for one slot and they pack a punch. However, you must support them as you cannot rely on them to break a full infantry unit on the charge. If used in conjunction with your wolfboys or boarboyz they can be devestating.
Many people disregard the Orc chariot. I am not one of them. They are tougher and have a better save than the goblin chariot and can usually survive in a fight a little longer. However, that said I will always take the gobbo chariot due to the 2-1 rule.
Boarboyz. Another unit that I try not to leave home without. They really pack a punch with the tusker charge rules, and have a half decent save. Just keep them away from warmachines which will make mush of your expensive troops. I like the SO Boarboys, but thats just a preference. A point to note though is the short charge range (only 14"). You must be very careful that they don't get charged by other cavalry (dirty elves) as you then waste their advantage. I like using two smaller units on the flanks.
The rock lobba - Does what is says on the tin. Needs the bully.
The spear chukka. For 70 points you get 2! These are really nasty when used correctly. The poor BS of the gobbos is off set by the two chances you get. If you have the points and the slot have 4.
The squig herd. Never used it in this version. I have seen it used and these displays have hardly convinced me to take them myself. Kill the gobbo's or make them run away and see the squigs go nuclear. Waste of points IMHO.
RARE -
Just choose the giant. It's absolutely fantastic. For 205 points you get a unit that will cause almost anything on the board problems. As with the B Orcs, the enemy will concentrate so much on removing the giant that they will often ignore the rest of your boys manouevering (sorry about spelling) for the charge.
Trolls....hmmm, I've used them, but they never seemed to justify their points or rare slot. You have to keep them next to your general which makes them tactically inflexible. A giant does everything the Trolls do, but better.
Snotling Pump Wagon. Inherently unpredictable, but deadly when it hits. Points better spent on a chariot to be honest.
The Goblin Doom Diver is very characterful, but often does very little damage. The spear chukka is a better option for artillery.

Over all the O+G army is one which you can never rely upon due to the anomosity rule. And if you do play O+G it is something that you must learn to live with. Either sprinkle BO characters in to your army (expensive) or try to avoid putting combat troops behind other combat troops (They'll charge them, rather than shoot if armed with bows). Anomosity has lost me games and someetimes I curse the rule. But when you roll that 6 and see the lasz splat something it more than makes up for it.
Some pointers for the army are: -
1. Keep your main combat units large (20 for Orcs and 30 for Gobbos).
2. Try to avoid using your general on a flying creature. You must keep him central for the addded leadership.
3. If things go horribly wrong, there's always plenty more ladz where they came from.

Orcdom
18-12-2005, 18:29
as for protecting your artillary, gobbos are just about as good as orcs. use night gobbos with 2 finatics and you can defend against flying monsters as well.

the bows are shorter range, but really do you expect bows to kill much? goblins you can filed in a wider frontage for the same area than you can with orcs, so when recieving a charge you get more shots at the same to hit and damage. couples with 2 finatics and if 1 falls short (one can potentially kill most monsters), that may make him decide to halt the charge. another turn of shooting even with the artillary.

personally i dont field orcs at all unless i am playing 4000+ points anymore.
i filed my gobbos. and a Goblin Warboss is worth taking, back him up with a goblin BSB and put them in the same unit, keeps those pesky spells and atrillary away grom them, what git in thier right mind stays out in the open :P

as for magical banner for the BSB red raggedy banner gives +1 ld for a LD 9. pretty good with goblins leading the fray.

yes, goblin chariots are good except agains Elves, IIRC you still have to deal with fear. couldnt find anything stating otherwise last time i played against them.

doom divers, this edition, baaah, they were worth it in 4th and 5th but not 6th, buy more bolt throwers.

Goblins - 30+ more like mobs of 40 is good. i have a few below 40 but i have just as many above

with goblins there is never a middle of the road win, you either stomp 'em or you run away to fight another day.

Steve

MadJackMcJack
18-12-2005, 23:37
Slight problem with goblins: it takes forever to paint an army of them. :cries:

Orcdom
19-12-2005, 00:05
there is no problem, it just takes 15 years or so and still not done.
guess ill never be done since i havent stopped collecting them either.

Steve

Da GoBBo
21-12-2005, 14:46
@Zak, how do you ever win battles dude? Appart from the big uns and black orcs bein a must, and your special unit description i very much disagree on most else.

CHARACTERS: What is the use of a hitty Warboss? Sure, his high leadership is nice, but apart from that? You can't field him in a cav unit or on a wyvern cause you want to keep him central. You want him with a unit of orc infantry and you don't need those for their hitting power. Orcs are to be kicked around and draw damage. Even when you do want them to be hitty a warboss is not gonna help. In my experience an infantry unit enters combat ones a battle on average, real waste of points to buy a lord for one round of combat. Apart from that, your gonna be charged, which isn't good. If you really wan't the ladz to be in the thick of it and deal a punch with their choppa your gonna need movement spells and you need a Great Shaman for that. Apart from movement, a Great Shaman with 12 power dice is able to destroy a quarter of your enemy forces before combat begins. Goblin chars are the way to go, for shamans and two big bosses, Ld8, not bad.

EQUIPEMENT: second handweapon? Who ever invented that? Especially with SO, an extra str on the charge is way better with WS3 S3 units than an extra attack. When charged, spears will do the trick. On common orcs it's too expensive anyway and shield upgrade is da best use of points. On Big Uns and Black orcs, an extra attack would be good, but with these uns a spear and shield, combined with da banner of butchery is the most devastating thing you can get. With black orcs, great weapons are great. You'll face heavily armoured troops plenty of times so again, extra S is great.

WOLFRIDERS: units of 10 minus? What's wrong with a good unit of 20 wolfriders? As a harrasment unit, 5 are sufficient, but as a decent combat unit, you'll 15-20. Their so cheap it's definitly worth the points.

GOBBO'S: common goblins are actually a very resilient for their points. I think I prefer night goblins too, but don't underestimate a cheap goblin unit with a 4+ save.

SQUIGS: No matter how you use them, it's allways well worth investing in these jumpy buggers. With WS4, S5 and 2A their awfull in combat. Most of the time they don't reach combat and they'll jump around. No harm done, a well placed squig bom is able to defend an entire table half all by itself. Just remeber too include a lot of goblins and keep them alive, you need more then half the unit destroyed to recieve victory points.

GIANTS and TROLLS: giants are to random to be trusted, very orcy but trolls deal more damage and are more resilient. Stupidity is a problem but can be dealt with. A usually take a giant cause I like the model so much. Terror is great and it draws attention. I don't use it for its combat abilities though, cant trust him to perform the right attack at the right moment.

DOOMDIVERS: doomdivers are evil when it comes to slaying cavalary. Slaying 2 chaos knights a hit is great.

speedygogo
24-12-2005, 03:45
Savage orc big uns with spears are great troops for there pts. Wolfriders are one of the best buys in the game along with the common gobbo. Lots of these cheap units are always a good idea. Frenzy can be used against you so you gotta be careful with that. Savage orcs seem like they would have 2 giants if they could so I would take those also. Think orcy and make a lists that can bring a serious beatdown. A shooty savage orc list is the only type of army that would be very out of character for that army.