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heretics bane
24-11-2006, 12:42
well all the other armies are starting there own, so who wants to go first?

sephiroth87
24-11-2006, 13:44
The Bret list can go several different ways. The strongest and easiest to play is the all Cavalry list (everyone start gnashing their teeth here).

Another interesting, but harder way to play is the peasant horde. Not as good, but still performs admirably with good play and a good list.

Another way people play is the oft-dreaded Royal Air Force list. It's generally shunned by all but the bravest players who are immune to scorn.

The last is a mix of two or three styles, which is still really strong and usually offsets the crap people will give you for playing Brets.

heretics bane
24-11-2006, 16:38
yo first post!, i quite like peasants enven though some poeple say they suck but for 5pts a peice men @ arms are quite durable along with bowmen with every one getting defensive stakes and flaming arrows

Steel_Legion
24-11-2006, 16:56
my army usually comprises of 1 Lord (Ld9 is nice) Paladin with banner of the lady (expensieve, but useful) a defensive damsel, x2 8man kotr, x1 errant, x2 M@A/bowsmen, x1 questing, x1 pegasus, x1 trebuchet, so there is a fair balance of things going on, though the pegs are a little large (5-6 usually) but it generally performs well, peasants rock! sure they are Ld 5 but for 5 points you cant complain, and they can easily get 3 ranks to add to a charge that your knights usually cant give (who fields 12+ units of knights that get into combat with 12+ models still?)

Parka boy
24-11-2006, 16:56
I completely disagree peasant horde isn't an option unless you have a 100 gbp to waste. If you want to play loads of human foot sloggers go empire.

Inkosi
24-11-2006, 17:09
Cav might get all the glory but its infantry that wins the war.

An all cav list is not realistic and is more often than not people would look down upon on it. I define a RAF list as all cav as well.

An all infantry horde has its limitations, and does not fit the theme of the brets. hey its the knights who are supposed to save the day.

The Best Bret list i would say is one that comprises both cav n peasants. It is realistic and have more options in handling different opponents. An all cav list might be more powerful but seriously, few around here in my gaming group would play against such a list.

heretics bane
25-11-2006, 10:30
Cav might get all the glory but its infantry that wins the war.

An all cav list is not realistic and is more often than not people would look down upon on it. I define a RAF list as all cav as well.

An all infantry horde has its limitations, and does not fit the theme of the brets. hey its the knights who are supposed to save the day.

to true, the infantry do all the dirty work and the knights flank charge and knights have better everything than peasants

The Blue Knight
26-11-2006, 01:44
Peasents are the necessary 'dirty side' of the Brett Army. I typically use two units of MAA wiht one led by Paladin on foot, along with a big unit of skirmishing archers. Three, five man, units of Yeomen, to screen by three groups of knights, or to have fun hunting and harassing.

No-no's forme, Trebs and Pegasus Knights.

Steel_Legion
26-11-2006, 15:23
anyone ever bother with giving archers light armour? I have given one unit it (i altered the models to represent light armour, metal helmet and a small shield thing either on there bow arm, slung over thier back or placed at there feet/hip etc) just because it ment i could convert models. i have never even taken a single save with this 16point investment, but hey, who cares
On another note, how many knights do you try to get into a unit typically for an average game? 5? 6? 9? 15??

heretics bane
26-11-2006, 16:31
i give my archers the full dealio to make sure they last longer, i would use 8 man knight units can never find a seperate guy to fill the space! can the lance still work with only 8 and get the full attacks??

Steel_Legion
26-11-2006, 21:52
well all the guys on the front and sides can attack, for 8 man the person dead center cant fight, basically you can get 8 S5/6 attacks on a charging unot of 8 knights (depends on what flavour they are) plus horses! (7 S3 which often is better than the knights i find... :D )

Xavier
26-11-2006, 22:07
Here's the 'old' one, http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3500

druchii
26-11-2006, 22:13
Cav might get all the glory but its infantry that wins the war.

An all cav list is not realistic and is more often than not people would look down upon on it. I define a RAF list as all cav as well.

An all infantry horde has its limitations, and does not fit the theme of the brets. hey its the knights who are supposed to save the day.

The Best Bret list i would say is one that comprises both cav n peasants. It is realistic and have more options in handling different opponents. An all cav list might be more powerful but seriously, few around here in my gaming group would play against such a list.

I disagree.
There really isn't a "more realistic" Bretonnian army.
Peasants or full cavalry, ALL Bretonnian armies are realistic. Just like it is quite realistic to have a Bretonnian Duke with the Knightly Vow while his Paladin consort totes the grail vow.
Neither the Bretonnian AB nor the 7th ed. rulebook make any statements alluding to the veracity of various Bretonnian armies.

Do people in your gaming group refuse to play against alot of difficult lists? That must suck just playing against such a limited crowd.

d

devolutionary
26-11-2006, 22:42
I'm fielding three units of bowmen, 2 units of M@A, and 5 knight units, with a good block of Pegasi (5 man unit) and a Trebuchet for support. Nothing fancy so far. Where I have decided to step a foot different is with my characters - I've taken the typical Paladin on Pegasus general, Standard, and lvl 2 Damsel (1 scroll only ;) )... and then blown it all on a Grail Lord with Sword of the Lady's Champion and Virtue of the Ideal. I hope to use him very soon against Ogres (I think?). I was curious if anyone had ever taken what I see as such a gamble before either?

BenK
27-11-2006, 00:03
Wouldn't an all cavalry list be quite realistic? Cav can obviously move much faster than infantry, so an army of knights and mounted retainers could quite convievably shun slower moving infantry and artillery for speed.

sephiroth87
27-11-2006, 00:34
Anything's realistic in the Warhammer world. Some people don't like playing against the all-cavalry army, so they usually call it unrealistic, especially when the book makes a big deal about the peasants.

I personally use peasants, but I don't use Men-at-Arms. I just use the bowmen, since I want to hit as quickly as possible. Waiting on the men at arms to get there with the cavalry just makes the game harder to plan. The bowmen do damage at 30'', so you never have to worry about them being slower than the cavalry.

And if any new players haven't noticed, take a look at the peasant bowmen list entry and notice that there's not a maximum number per squad.

Then think about 30 skirmishing bowmen raining down arrows through a gap in your line that's about 3'' wide.

Long live the peasant devastator squad! :p

Move Fast Hit Low
27-11-2006, 01:36
sry i dont know much about Bretonnia, what exactly is the RAF strategy?

devolutionary
27-11-2006, 02:05
With a Pegasus mounted General, you can field any number of Pegasus Knight units, which are devastatingly fast, tough, and hard hitting. They hop around the place, slaughtering warmachines, getting rear charges, nad basically running amok. It's a truly awful and highly effective strategy against a large number of armies. It is, effectively, the Bretonnian gunline or steam tank charge.

Move Fast Hit Low
27-11-2006, 02:07
wish someone had told me before i started high elves!

i like cheese

Steel_Legion
27-11-2006, 07:27
i have been told i verge on minor RAF, as i field 3-6 pegasus and soon to join them a paladin on royal pegasus (possibly only rarely, as i need him to go hunting for me...bloody necromancers.. :D)

devolutionary
27-11-2006, 07:33
Yeah, I have the same, 5 pegasi and a duelling pegasi paladin general. It ain't that bad. Folks scream cheese the instant they see 1 steam tank, or 1 pegasus, or 1 golden eye tzeentch lord on a chaos dragon... what?! :p

Move Fast Hit Low
28-11-2006, 03:30
how do you be cheesy with HE?

TheWarSmith
28-11-2006, 03:53
HE cheese is the all silverhelm list w/ 10 lvls of magic and 4 bolt throwers.

RAF got SEVERELY toned down in 7th(no -1 to hit pegasus knights).

Also, characters can NOT join PK units, EVER!!!

I run 6 strong knight units. I like to be able to field more smaller units of knights, and combination charges are what win the game w/ bretonnians.

I have a tactica upcoming in The Watchman. Keep an eye out.

devolutionary
28-11-2006, 04:45
Also, characters can NOT join PK units, EVER!!!

Wait, what, really? Huh. Well, that means I'll have two flying things to kill rather than one unit eh? :D

Inkosi
28-11-2006, 04:48
Wouldn't an all cavalry list be quite realistic? Cav can obviously move much faster than infantry, so an army of knights and mounted retainers could quite convievably shun slower moving infantry and artillery for speed.

Nope not realistic. The other races in Warhammer might be created from fantasy. But bretonnia have a very medieval feeling.

If you dont count the mongolians, Very few armies or next to none had more cav than infantry in their armies in history.

How can it be realistic to have an all cav army? are you telling me that bretonnia is a country where they have more horses than humans? Understand that horse breeding has always been a long and difficult process thus limiting the numbers of cav in the army. And consider that bret knights are all heavy cav. their plate armour and such is also a great effort to produce.

Thus the idea of more cav than peasants in bretonnia is absurd. Cav would always be in limited numbers and act as shock troops. To have only cav in your army is like having only expensive troops. You dont have any expendable fodder, and the losts you incur in a war whether you win or lose would be too high.

Inkosi
28-11-2006, 04:51
Wait, what, really? Huh. Well, that means I'll have two flying things to kill rather than one unit eh? :D



Characters have NEVER ever been allowed to join a unit of PKs. Never Ever.

And a single character on a pegasus is always a obvious arrow board. They never last long so you would be putting close to 200 points up for grabs. Nice.

devolutionary
28-11-2006, 04:55
Wha? They're a bunch of people who believe in a mythical grail granting super human powers, all the while following some lady in no clothes who likes to go swimming a lot. How in the name of all that's unholy are they NOT fantastical?

Just because they are feudal humans does not mean that they are bound to any real-world logistical arguments, or at least any more than any other army in this completely mythical and unrealistic setting is. If you want realism, play Historicals. This is Warhammer Fantasy Battles, not Warhammer "Call-of-Duty, eat your heart out" Battles. Play what you damn well will, and screw the rest. As long as you play in the spirit of the game (and Bretonnia is all about the cavalry, unless you missed the point where half their Core slots are cavalry) then what's the problem?


..... you didnt know?

so thanks for spreading an illegal idea around.

Are you a troll, or just naturally VERY offensive?

Since I have never played a game with Pegasus Knights, and only picked up WHFB again in the past year, I have never suggested anyone combine the two. I was merely planning to, and now I am glad that I have been told otherwise. As for the arrow board, who cares? It'll be dramatic, it'll be glorious, it'll be Bretonnian.

Get your facts straight in the future before accusing anybody of something, eh buddy? Thanks for playing, bye now, ta ta!

Inkosi
28-11-2006, 05:12
People only remember the brave deeds and and honour them if they stay alive after the deed. In this case highly unlikely.

Flying around in a pegasus and getting shot down before they do anything will be remembered as a laughing stock for years to come. Definately not bretonnian.

Anyway i apologize for my earlier tone. Didnt seem too offensive when i typed it out, upon reading it does, so ya sorry about that dude.

TheWarSmith
28-11-2006, 05:12
Something people also should realize about RAF. PKs lose their 0-1 restriction, but they are NOT core. They're still special.

In my army, I run 25 M@A, 12 skirmishing bowmen, and 18 grail reliquae, along with 3 units of kotr and some grial knights.

devolutionary
28-11-2006, 05:17
People only remember the brave deeds and and honour them if they stay alive after the deed. In this case highly unlikely.

Flying around in a pegasus and getting shot down before they do anything will be remembered as a laughing stock for years to come. Definately not bretonnian.

I beg to differ. I still hold to the old bretonnia, the one that was so painfully stupid yet so ridiculously brave that the mere thought of losing never passed their minds. The one that says "What? Only a thousand? Never mind chaps, I'll have this cleared up by supper". Grandiose deaths in the face of all odds are long-living tales. It's actually remarkabley British pre-WWI, when war was glorious and last stands were the things of legend.

Of course, I take no small relief in the fact that my primary opponents? Ogres, Dwarves, and Chaos. Two of them have no shooting to be concerned with, and the Dwarves, well... I think one pegasus paladin will be the least of their worries when they have 40 odd knights barrelling at them. Again, a flawed strategy, but screaming out "CHARGE!" is just so much fun.

Maybe I should be playing Orcs... hrmmmm...



Something people also should realize about RAF. PKs lose their 0-1 restriction, but they are NOT core. They're still special.

That I definitely know. I have a Pegasi General (my Lord has Virtue of the Ideal) but only run a single unit of 5 Pegasi at 2500 pts. I like my peasants, they're just too hillarious to skimp on in the name of more uber.

Inkosi
28-11-2006, 05:28
but screaming out "CHARGE!" is just so much fun.



wrong. Join Khorne. :evilgrin:

Seriously. the idea of bret knights being fearless fools are quite insulting. We re not talking about monty python here so...

The errants might be rash and hot headed with the "WHAT? Only a Thousand" attitude.

But i expect the grails to be much more mature and sensible seeing that the lady wouldnt be too interested in fools.

Steel_Legion
28-11-2006, 07:25
wha? its no longer -1 to hit flyers/skirmishers? when did this happen?

devolutionary
28-11-2006, 07:46
wrong. Join Khorne. :evilgrin:

Seriously. the idea of bret knights being fearless fools are quite insulting. We re not talking about monty python here so...

The errants might be rash and hot headed with the "WHAT? Only a Thousand" attitude.

But i expect the grails to be much more mature and sensible seeing that the lady wouldnt be too interested in fools.

Sorry, I'm a Nurgle boy. Plague and death!

Insulting? Nah, I don't think so. I was using hyperbole, it should be noted first ;) I just like the idea of the knights believing themselves indestructible, or as close to as possible. They are incredibly arrogant, even 6th Ed stuff backs this up with their complete and utter lack of regard for anyone not of the nobility. They are inferior, and I follow this on to extend to other nations. Look at the battles of Gilles the Uniter, the entire band is fighting against overwhelming odds. These are the stories upon which knights are raised, those of incredible odds and glorious sacrifice. Yes, Errants have it very bad, but I don't think that enthusiasm can ever completely die. Questing and Grail knights are a much rarer occurence than perhaps Bretonnian armies imply - only a very very small proportion of the nobility are Grail knights. Questing knights are, in my mind, merely an extension of Errants, with their drive to prove themselves in the most preposterous and challenging of circumstances. All knights aspire to the Grail, and that hot-blooded enthusiasm for battle is something that is never lost. They're almost berserker like in that regard, always looking for the next battle to show their prowess against even greater odds. Errants simply take it one step further due to youth, and Questings have their lack of care emphasised through their psychology rules.

However the great thing to keep in mind here is that all the various Warhammer races are up for serious interpretation. I started playing Bretonnians when they were first released as a fully supported line many years ago, and so I may seem a little 4th/5th Ed oriented in my outlook :D

On a side not, does anyone else think that the Bretonnian Warhorses have terrible molds? The mold lines are simply nasty.

heretics bane
28-11-2006, 16:17
peggys are good but its annoying when the peggys killed, what type of magical lance do you use?? the wyrmlance sounds good but is really weak, anybody agree?? and is the chrage range of peggys and knights 8"?? new to them,im a dwarf player i only move a little,lol

druchii
28-11-2006, 16:34
Nope not realistic. The other races in Warhammer might be created from fantasy. But bretonnia have a very medieval feeling.
...Blah blah blah...
You dont have any expendable fodder, and the losts you incur in a war whether you win or lose would be too high.

Knights Errant are the "fodder of the all cavalry army(atleast, fluff-wise. Tactically, KotR and yeomen tend to take the role). The AB makes specific refrences to "thinning the ranks" and "testing mettle" when the older, more experienced knights send the KEs into the brawl.

And keep in mind, when a model is removed from the game in warhammer, he's not always dead. Maybe his horse got tired. Maybe he stubbed his toe and had to go home? I remember a game where a goblin killed a Grail Knight, I like to pretend the goblin just got lucky and was able to scratch a really mean itch the grail knight had. He went home.


People only remember the brave deeds and and honour them if they stay alive after the deed. In this case highly unlikely.

Flying around in a pegasus and getting shot down before they do anything will be remembered as a laughing stock for years to come. Definately not bretonnian.

Anyway i apologize for my earlier tone. Didnt seem too offensive when i typed it out, upon reading it does, so ya sorry about that dude.

I personally run a Paladin mounted on a royal pegasus. He has yet to get shot out of the sky. With a 40mmx40mm base, he's still quite easy to hide, and with a 20" charge/move range, he's quite manuverable. Even magic isn't too hard to deflect.

Not only that, but sometimes I WISH people would shoot at him. Against some armies he'll just get smacked around, and all he's good for is another 3ws5, S6 attacks(+2ws4,s4 attacks). He can be decent bait for a shooty army.


wha? its no longer -1 to hit flyers/skirmishers? when did this happen?

Once 7th ed. told us that in order to gain the -1 to hit for shooting at skirmishers the skirmishers must be US1.

d