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megamat008
24-11-2006, 23:14
Who is the strongest psyker in the 40k universe according to you ?

Who would win in the end if they made one on one psychic fights ?

The Emperor is not on an equal foot with others so I don't include him.

I'd put my money on Eldrad who's supposed to be the wisest guy in the universe, closely followed by Ahriman who could ruin the Imperium if he managed to find the Black Library.

Tyron
24-11-2006, 23:25
Clearly the Emperor.

CELS
24-11-2006, 23:25
Depends on how you define 'strong', really. In terms of raw power, PQ, or skills? I put Tigurius, as the new fluff has him tapping into the gestalt consciousness of the Hive Mind. Hats off for that. Both Eldrad and Ahriman would probably be more skilled though, have more knowledge of spells, etc.

Hivemind
24-11-2006, 23:48
Tyranids....They have an effect when you kill a Norn queen that can shadow the
astronomican.

Vashalgrim
24-11-2006, 23:51
I have to go with Ahriman...mostly because Eldrad and the Emperor are both dead:D ...though 'Nids do present an interesting option....

NeonDante
25-11-2006, 02:06
Definately the Emperor. Even in his current state he creates a gigantic beacon, and causes miracles to the faithful.

Imperialis_Dominatus
25-11-2006, 02:59
Well, Eldy got eaten, so I think the Emperor ownz.

Kage2020
25-11-2006, 03:06
Answer: Other, aka "Whoever you want it to be" (or whomever GW wants to imply it is at any given time).

Kage

Gutlord Grom
25-11-2006, 03:29
It's Bob.
All hail Bob!

Kage2020
25-11-2006, 04:32
Aye, Bob it is. Generic name for whatever you want! ;)

(And, of course, to monkey around with things it also happens to be the "true name" of the Emperor! ;) :D :rolleyes: )

Kage

Sarge
25-11-2006, 06:58
None can defeat Paco the Demon Slayer! (I will never live that day down, nothing like a pathetic Sanctioned Pysker walking all over a greater demon with a Force Weapon and Honorifica Imperialis.)

Temmy
25-11-2006, 08:18
These ladies:

http://uk.games-workshop.com/witchhunters/villainy-infamy/3/

glowing in the dark
25-11-2006, 08:31
Blatantly Chuck Norris

Most definetly! :D Or Betty from Kung pow

But from the list, i'd choose Ahriman.By fluff he is the gratest living magician!

Goq Gar
25-11-2006, 08:37
An ork.

Duh.

Dunr II
25-11-2006, 08:57
Emporer or the twins...

Rhyskalor
25-11-2006, 09:07
My money would be on Magnus.
If he ever could be bothered again to do anything outside the EoT he would definitely be king of psykers.

forthegloryofkazadekrund
25-11-2006, 09:17
tzeentch itself?

ThorOdensson
25-11-2006, 10:23
Im going for Tigurius but only because im reasoning from a battle point of view as a battle psyker it would be Tigurius i dont consider Eldrad or Ahriman as really battle psykers, Eldrad was more powerful in the sence of his abilities to see the future and Ahriman has a extensive knowledge of chaos magics.

ArtificerArmour
25-11-2006, 10:54
Joe Random, the alpha level psyker thats born every so often and can blow up a planet due to being unable to control himself.

masecase
25-11-2006, 12:02
How about a Norn Queen? Tzeentch is god and thus not part of the election.

Griefbringer
25-11-2006, 12:37
My vote for the Emperor - everyone who claims otherwise is a heretic.

Though Norn Queens might be pretty powerful - but how much of the power is their own, and how much is channelled from the rest of the hive mind.

I do not think that pure warp entities (like Tzeentch) really count as psykers - which as a term implies to me a creature of the material universe that is able to draw and channel power of the warp into the material universe.

Core_Commander
25-11-2006, 12:48
Hive Mind.

Griefbringer
25-11-2006, 13:09
Hive mind is psychically strong, but since it is a collective entity and not a single creature, it does not really qualify as "a psyker".

Core_Commander
25-11-2006, 13:34
Heh. Still, it's a collective being with a single will, so for me HM it is.

The Emperor is fueled by human (psyker) sacrifices, so on his own he wouldn't be so much kickbutt... Anyway, he's pretty much a plant (power plantif you will).

Eldrad got eaten alright. It seems that half of the Eldar players these days want to dabble in necromancy though.

I wonder, why is Magnus the Red not on the list? He was pretty powerful when he still walked the land, his demonprinceness should only add to that?

Rockerfella
25-11-2006, 14:05
I dunoo guys... lets be fair... Eldrad could do things with a stick Dumbledore could only dream of. *lol*

He gets my vote. Bless his soul. :S

GodofWarTx
26-11-2006, 05:28
grandiose scale - Hive Mind/Emperor tied

"demi-gods" - Magnus.

mortals - Ahriman. The man is pretty bad to the bone, and im sure he has plenty of tricks up his sleeve for a psykic duel.

However, if this were a test of wills, or of battle with their force-weapons, i think Mephiston would win without question. You dont batter down a man who defeated death itself.

harlequin21
26-11-2006, 17:15
I'm gonna go with Ahriman, cause he's slick

masecase
26-11-2006, 19:06
Tigerius, he survived the HIVE MIND!

ThorOdensson
26-11-2006, 20:37
Tigerius, he survived the HIVE MIND!

He didnt just survive the hive mind he survived it with his mind intact

SpinO
26-11-2006, 20:45
I'm for the Apex twins. Someone who escapes from both a black ship and Nemesis Tesserra deserves that title.

Terminatorphoenix
26-11-2006, 21:06
the Apex twins,simply for the fact that i iamgine them as two swedish swimsuit models.

oh and theres the whole nemesis tessera/blackship think...

Nazguire
26-11-2006, 23:24
Well apart from the blatantly obvious Hive Mind and Emperor (probably Emperor, as he is a singular entity. The Hive Mind is just the collective psychic conscioussness of all the Tyranids.)

I'd say, for just a pow-pow Dragonball Z style duel, Ahriman. Something about being the most talented sorcerer outside of Magnus the Red (whom is basically Tzeentch's chosen boy) would mean he'd win. Also he's 10,000+years of age, has dozens upon dozens of texts and documents of ancient evils (ooo :eek: ) at his disposal and a vindictive personality to boot gives him the edge.

Precognitive abilities, Eldrad lays the beat down on Tigurius and Ahriman. Tigurius has nowhere near the experience or age of Eldrad and Ahriman. He's strong yes, and talented yes. But compared to the other two, nah uh sunshine.:D

Ahriman is also Tzeentch's play thing. If Tzeentch doesn't want Ahriman 'seeing' something then he won't. Simple. However Eldrad used(s) runes that focus his power safely and also combined with his phenomenal talent allows him to win the precognitive area.

One on one in a duel between Ahriman and Eldrad, Eldrad would be fried. However, if Eldrad had his way, he'd manipulate the time stream so that Ahriman is stepped on by a Titan or something.

swordwind
26-11-2006, 23:26
I've gotta go for the Apex Twins too.

Nazguire
26-11-2006, 23:45
I've gotta go for the Apex Twins too.

Of course, the Apex Twins are just one example of an Alpha level psyker/s that have equivalent power. It's just that these babes are publicised more so people automatically assume that they are amongst the most powerful beings in the galaxy (which Alpha Level psykers are. But chances are, there are dozen 'Apex Twins' out there that just haven't been discovered or, more likely, haven't been written about)

Gearux
27-11-2006, 00:46
Magnus for me. The other Primarchs were scared of him, and the Emperor couldn't control him.

P.S. Am I the only one who finds the poll options lacking?:eyebrows:

zendral
27-11-2006, 01:00
I think the poll was mainly for the humanoid/non-uber powers of the warp. Duh the emperor is better...duh so is the hive mind....duh so is Tzeentch. It would be a much more interesting battle between the best non-uber psy boys.

Between Ahriman, Eldrad, Tigerius, and Mephiston......rule-wise eldrad has them all beat. Fluff-wise....I'm stuck between Eldrad and Ahriman. I am more partial to the sons, and dislike Eldar, but it's hard to avoid how powerful Eldrad is. Truly hard to say between Ahriman and Eldrad. I gess it depends on how much Tzeentch likes Ahriman that day. :)

Core_Commander
27-11-2006, 05:45
As far as the options go, I really don't know what Eldrad is doing here. Can't we just leave the poor sod to do what he's doing best... Having his soul ripped apart in some ancient construct of total annihilation or another :eyebrows:?

I mean, he's in the Codex, but we're talking fluff-wise here, right? I really regret that GW didn't have the guts to just let him go and have some young blood prodigy take over (think Eldar Apex Twin - why not?)... Maybe the long-awaited female farseer...

Eh.

Son of Makuta
27-11-2006, 10:49
The Apex Twins. Or the hive mind, if that counts.

zealousheretic
27-11-2006, 11:53
Gotta go with the Hive Mind.

hiram
27-11-2006, 15:40
Ive got to go with the Apex Twins. They were able to over take a blackship kill all her crew(which might I add are all gaurded by the sisters of silence) and still keep causing havoc for 4000 years

Rockerfella
27-11-2006, 16:10
Excuse my ignorance... all i keep hearing about is 'the apex' twins? Who the hell are they?

Apologies again!

HeraldOfTheFree
27-11-2006, 16:20
Magnus the Red.
By the way is there any background on post-heresy Magnus? Or does he just hide in the Eye of Terror?

Core_Commander
27-11-2006, 17:53
Excuse my ignorance... all i keep hearing about is 'the apex' twins? Who the hell are they?

They're the Warhammer's answer to the popularity of "scary as all hell small innocent girl" characters - and quite a nice piece of fluff, anyway.

I don't think they're THAT uber as to be called "the strongest psyker", and any of the other gentlemen on the list would squash them like a pair of bugs... But, compared to your regular psykers, they kick a solid amount of bottom.

The link has aleady been posted here, but here it is for your convenience ;) .

http://uk.games-workshop.com/witchhunters/villainy-infamy/3/

Cheers!

masecase
27-11-2006, 17:57
Look at games-workshop.com under witchhunters and you should find them in an article about villains.

Rockerfella
27-11-2006, 18:06
They're the Warhammer's answer to the popularity of "scary as all hell small innocent girl" characters - and quite a nice piece of fluff, anyway.

I don't think they're THAT uber as to be called "the strongest psyker", and any of the other gentlemen on the list would squash them like a pair of bugs... But, compared to your regular psykers, they kick a solid amount of bottom.

The link has aleady been posted here, but here it is for your convenience ;) .

http://uk.games-workshop.com/witchhunters/villainy-infamy/3/

Cheers!

Do you know what? Thankyou very much. :)

Always amazes me how willing some people are to help out an ignorant fool like me.

Thanks again!! :)

Commander Ozae
27-11-2006, 18:06
I would have to say a human alpha lvl psyker, i don't know of any particularly great examples but they are described as being incredibly strong and able to snap a titan in two with a thought, i doubt eldrad could do that.

Rockerfella
27-11-2006, 18:14
I would have to say a human alpha lvl psyker, i don't know of any particularly great examples but they are described as being incredibly strong and able to snap a titan in two with a thought, i doubt eldrad could do that.

Dont be so sure... an average farseer can chuck out an 'eldritch storm' that can 'hurl tanks around' like paper. So, Eldrad? I'm guessing he could do some pretty nifty Jedi esque mind powers if he wanted to. :p

Remember though, ripping titans in half wasn't Eldrads forte or business.. he was in the business of making sure the Titan didn't step a foot down in the first place.

To me, thats true power.

ViewFinder
27-11-2006, 18:22
I would have to say a human alpha lvl psyker, i don't know of any particularly great examples but they are described as being incredibly strong and able to snap a titan in two with a thought, i doubt eldrad could do that.

Yes, it's possible that Eldrad could not snap titan in two, because his soul would have been eaten or something but, but he could do trick or two whit time and end up blowing the titans generator due someone forgot check generator:D

I'll give my vote to Eldrad. Why? Beacause his been around(not anymore but anyway) 10'000+ years(even if you say something else) like Ahriman have been around, but shorter than Eldrad. Do remember that piece of fluff in which Eldrad kicks Abadons ass, before abby teleports away.
Even if Mephiston has won the death himself, he has only escaped him once, in the end death will win this race no matter what.
Tigurius, he's strong and stuff, but he's just a marine, his battle psyker so he'll end up having he's brain fried sometime.

giner
27-11-2006, 18:22
Hive Mind controlling that many things, blocking off warp travel and sending people insane seet.

hiveminion
27-11-2006, 18:22
The Tyranid Race! (counts as one, see)

And if he/she/it doesn't win the psychic contest, he/she/it simply forces a feeder tendril up their...ear...and takes over their brain, thereby becoming the greatest psyker anyway.

Rockerfella
27-11-2006, 18:25
Yes, it's possible that Eldrad could not snap titan in two, because his soul would have been eaten or something but, but he could do trick or two whit time and end up blowing the titans generator due someone forgot check generator:D

I'll give my vote to Eldrad. Why? Beacause his been around(not anymore but anyway) 10'000+ years(even if you say something else) like Ahriman have been around, but shorter than Eldrad. Do remember that piece of fluff in which Eldrad kicks Abadons ass, before abby teleports away.
Even if Mephiston has won the death himself, he has only escaped him once, in the end death will win this race no matter what.
Tigurius, he's strong and stuff, but he's just a marine, his battle psyker so he'll end up having he's brain fried sometime.


I love it! :D

Anyways... can someone tell me more about Eldrad kicking Abbadons ass? I've heard this before, so.. i'd like to have some clarification please. What happened? *gets excited*

Cheers!

Core_Commander
27-11-2006, 18:25
Sure, but now the best Eldrad can do is shamble around and mumble "braaaaaaaainnnzzzzzz", since coming out of the new Codex: Eldar effectvely made him the most popular zombie of 40k :wtf:.

My, I really have to stop venting my spleen on that... Some day :D.

Rockerfella
27-11-2006, 18:30
Sure, but now the best Eldrad can do is shamble around and mumble "braaaaaaaainnnzzzzzz", since coming out of the new Codex: Eldar effectvely made him the most popular zombie of 40k :wtf:.

My, I really have to stop venting my spleen on that... Some day :D.

So the whole Eldrad/talisman of Vaul/crap death thing upset you too?? :eyebrows:

He was just a cool character.. knew his stuff, kicked ass, wasn't afraid of letting folk know he was a tad worried, uber managerial, superb leader.

I know what.. lets kill him. *grumbles*

Cheers. The Eldar have one decent super ace character (really, lets be fair) and he gets chewed.

Anyways.... *coughs*

Rant over.

Where were we??:mad:

Core_Commander
27-11-2006, 18:48
Rant alert: Red. Long and bitter, bear with me.

To be honest, the thing that upset me the most wasn't that they killed Eldrad (though the way GW did it was pretty rude, too). What REALLY ticked me off was how they've brought him back rules-wise ONLY, and fluff-wise he's one of the deadest poor sods ever.

He's met his end - okay, fine. But what's disgusting is how GW never let his old bones rest. That's absurd, pure and refined.

And now soooo many Eldar players declare they will use him, because zombie Eldrad is such a bargain, has an insane kick, and won't snuff it after one PotW. You only need to pay his 200+ points and feed him brains. And he's more that kicking butts - he's on a galaxy - wide tournee, thanks to the lack of alleigiance limitations. :wtf: of :wtf:s.

Seriously, couldn't GW just give up on the old chap, and simply give regular Farseers a special rule: "l33t - Eldar Farseers aren't Instant Killed by PotW", to silence the crybabies?

This is just wrong. Rules-wise nothing stops anybody from bringing Eldrad to every patrol possible, fine.

Just watch out for the maggots.

Oh, and there's the sweet "count as" rule, sure. But isn't it strange that Zeldrad someone may field carries the same super-megapowered-UNIQUE staff the late big E used to carry? Same goes for Prince Yriel's cursed spear, but of course many Craftworlds have cursed former pirate princes with laser eyes as their Autarchs... Happens aaaaaalll the time.

Heck, at least this one is alive.



... phew. Okay, I feel a little bit better. I don't even play Eldar, but I like them... And I can't bear watching all this happening. Eh.

Sorry for the rant, the alert is over, you may leave the shelters...

Rockerfella
27-11-2006, 18:56
*crawls out of the shelter, wiping the dust away...*

Ok.. i think i can feel the anger there. All very good points I may add. ;p

Screw it, lets just bring the Big E back full on. I mean.. he's not really truly dead... is he? :P

Look... you scared the pigeons....

XchaosXlinux
27-11-2006, 23:24
No, according to the codex (which I just so happen to be holding), he has no body and is now just a bunch of waystones. And yet he still is a playable character. Hmmmmm......

Lastie
27-11-2006, 23:27
Screw it, lets just bring the Big E back full on. I mean.. he's not really truly dead... is he? :P


Of course not. And he shall return even more powerful than before, with Psychic Mega Death Attack +1 with Extra Rending. And Space Marines everywhere shall fear the Neo Eldrad - THE ONE!!

He now dodges bullets. :D

Bmaxwell
28-11-2006, 00:32
oh rending the ultimate power up

elvinltl
28-11-2006, 00:43
Actually you cannot count the hive mind. As mentioned it is a collective power unlike single entity character prowess.

Put it this way, the hive mind may be 1000 times more powerful then a farseer. However, nobody had seen the hive mind before so there is a chance its brain may be as big as a planet which is billion times larger then a farseer brain.

I think we should implement a proper method of calculation which means physic power per brain mass. LOL

It's like comparing might with magic with wits with abilities with skills with talent. Thre is no best but they each specialise in one area or another.
For me i'll stick with Eldrad simply because he can rewrite history.

He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the dooom of others can deliver it.
Eldrad Ulthran

Come to think of it, if many farseers can predict the future. They could actually chart history even after Eldar race becomes extinct and it will of course be stored in the black library.

asmodai_dark86
28-11-2006, 02:29
Defensiveley of offensively?

See Eldar psykers to me have always been defensive. Take Eldrad doing the multiple spirit stone thing - its defensive (protects his soul, helps - tactically - the troops).

Now lets take Magnus. Magnus is a chaotic daemon prince of the highest order, likely stronger then a greater daemon of tzeentch but even thats debatable. If Magnus wanted to go batter a planet, he'd have no trouble. He just doesnt want to.

And as for the twins? Meh seems like a silly bit of fluff if you ask me..

Rockerfella
28-11-2006, 06:31
Seems Eldrads kicking ass on this poll.

Interesting....

Calden
28-11-2006, 11:28
Hmm, I'd personally keep the pole to the ones listed at the start as they are vaguely mortal.

As for which? Well for swordplay Mephiston would probably win, but then this isn't about that, I dont think he's nearly as powerfull as the other three.

Tigurius is pretty darned nasty, but much like any marine Librarian he's more about raw power. He can be subtle though, but I think Ahriman and Eldrad would nudge him due to experience.

Eldrad and Ahriman, tricky decision really. Eldrad has probably had the greater impact on the universe, and is likely a hell of alot more pwoerfull than Ahriman. Trick is Eldrad can't go hell for leather as otherwise some daemon might go munch on him. Ahriman is a damned nasty guy full stop, and hell he's got the Harlequins worried, what does that say?

I think it's probably a draw between Eldrad and Ahriman. Mind you seeing as my three main armies are Ultramarines, Ulthwe and Thousand Sons, I have a finger in every pie :P

Rockerfella
28-11-2006, 11:57
Hmmm, its interesting this one isn't it. Arhiman got his ass handed to him at the Black Library though, which kinda suggests the magiks and psychic powers the harlequins, shadowseers etc were weilding against him and his followers must have been pretty impressive to send him on his way.

Hmmmmm. *ponders*

Mirehn
28-11-2006, 12:09
Eldrad he just ace, he is the only one who can pick where and when any fight would take place, and in ture Eldar style i don't think he would play it fair , might bring along the council just to make sure :)

Commander Zhypher
28-11-2006, 12:39
since i couldent choose the Hive mind (sure, Hive mind is not one single living beeing, it certanly acts like one, the tyranid race imho is all and one, like all the bacterias that lets the human body live, we are considered 1 person, but we wouldent live without all our parts)

Eldrad it is then :)

Rockerfella
28-11-2006, 12:41
Eldrad he just ace, he is the only one who can pick where and when any fight would take place, and in ture Eldar style i don't think he would play it fair , might bring along the council just to make sure :)

Yeah...:D

'Wait!! Arhiman.. look, in the sky, an elephant!! *Eldrad points over Ahrimans shoulder, Ahriman looking round slowly* Eldrad then sniggers and lays some uber psychic 'your mind is soup' type stuff over.

What a ridiculous scenario! :p

Lancer
28-11-2006, 12:59
Eldrad was the strongest mortal psyker in 40k. However, he is now a collection of mostly-inert waystones and a soul trapped for pretty much all eternity at the heart of a chaos-corrupted Blackstone Fortress.

I'm going to have to go with Tigurius as the most powerful we know of. Tapping into the conciousness of what is, for all intents and purposes, a warp-god and comming out totally unscathed is rather impressive.

Da Reddaneks
28-11-2006, 13:13
ork wyrdboyz. every else are second rate spoon benders.

Rockerfella
28-11-2006, 13:14
i just get that creeping feeling.... i mean... Eldrad split his essence into all those parts, so that he couldn't be utterly consumed in any one way. Kind of like Voldemort in The harry Potter Books. I think...

I wouldn't be at all suprised, if in the next campaign, nxt few years.. those stones begin to glow a little stronger. Well, we can all wish. :oP

Dorn
28-11-2006, 14:14
how do you qualify most powerful? I think a good way of doing it is to seperate classes of psykers and rank them, then see who is best in each class, based on experience/reported abilities (e.g. Ahriman is better than Tigurius because he has 9500yrs more experience)

The way I see it is this (Most powerful class to least):

(DEMI) GOD: The Emperor > The Deciever > Nightbringer > C'tan
better than
IMMORTAL: Magnus > Horus > Primarchs > Greater Daemons
better than
NEAR IMMORTAL: Eldrad > Mephiston
better than
SUPER HUMAN: Ahriman > Tigurius > Ezekiel > farseers > librarians
better than
HUMANS/ MORTALS: Alpha, beta, etc psykers, Inquisitors

Obviously this isn't to say that a Primarch wouldn't bitchslap a C'tan, but we aren't talking about combat power, merely that C'tan are a higher 'class' of being and have more experience than a primarch (even Magnus).

Thoughts?

Mirehn
28-11-2006, 14:22
Yeah Eldrad is the greatest impact on the universe, who else can beat an enemy before the war even starts, Eldrad thats Who *goes in to shaft theme tune*

Commisar BoB
28-11-2006, 14:26
Oh its gotta be Eldrad...because he would scry the possiable futures and then set things up to where everyone else would fight each other and then come in and fry the vicktor of all of them. Sneaky Eldar LOL

Core_Commander
28-11-2006, 17:27
Hey, if Eldrad is so uber, and he's got the most votes of all, and would see all futures, and avoid doom and bring it upon opponents, and the Shaft theme (heh) - how come he's dead?

Why is he getting all these votes, and so many people praise his l33t skillz in present tense/conditional sentences?

Face it... It was fun, but Eldrad Presley has left the building. How about passing the baton at last.

Mojaco
28-11-2006, 18:51
I agree. Eldrad bit the dust, so he's not so great after all. And how could he trick Ahriman in doing anything? They'd both be setting each other up so bad they themselves can't make sense of it anymore. Good thing he's dead.

Ahriman however is getting closer and closer to his goal and might one day be the 5th chaos god. I'm going to ally with him here. Don't wanna be on his bad side when he does.

Rockerfella
28-11-2006, 20:44
Well, same could be said for the emperor, if he's so uber, how come he's dead? Nah, thats a daft argument. Elvis WAS uber, but he's dead.

Does ones mortailty define one's greatness? I think not...

And, its said that some of the waystones are glimmering, still. If even ONE waystone is still bright, then Eldrad still fights against the torment of Slaanesh. And if anyone, ever has the Will to endure such a thing, its Eldrad.

Then all the nay-sayers will come bowing, falling at his feet when he's resurected!! MWAHAHAAHHA!!! *coughs*

Sorry about that....

Mechanicus
28-11-2006, 21:07
(DEMI) GOD: The Emperor > The Deciever > Nightbringer > C'tan
Just two points - a) in terms of raw power (not psychic though - see next point) the Deciever is the least of the C'tan.
b) The C'tan aren't psykers, the warp is anathema to them. ;)

In terms of who I think is/was (Depending on when you're basing this on - I take it we assume Eldrad is still alive) the most powerful mortal psyker... Hmm... I would have said Magnus, but I'm not sure the Primarchs are mortal, and even so, I doubt Daemon Princes are... So Eldrad for me.

Core_Commander
28-11-2006, 21:23
Rockerfella, the Emperor is mortally wounded, but NOT dead. That is the purpose of the Golden Throne, to keep him alive forever sending the beam of the Astronomican into the Warp (sustained by the life energies of sacrificed human psykers), to serve as a beacon for all mankind. Without this, the human interstellar navigation and communication would not exist, and thus, the Imperium of Man would cease to exist as well.

Nobody knows in what psychical condition the Emperor is, but one thing is certain - he's alive... And sending such a signal into space takes a lot of power indeed.

I understand your liking of the character, and of course some Deus Ex Machina can bring him back, some day.

But for now, he's... Well, you know. the "D" word. Sorry.


So Eldrad for me.

Arg! Well... I guess it's time for me to depart this thread to save my poor nerves... "I see dead Eldar" ;).

Cheers guys and gals!

Rockerfella
28-11-2006, 21:31
Commander.

I'm part of a small but solid group of gamers that believe the Emperor to be dead. I'm sorry. I really think he's, well... dead. He's there as a symbol to keep the Imperium floating, nothing more. And the thousands of psykers they chuck into the 'golden throne' keeps the astranomican beaming? I think the machine itself performs this act, and has been doing so since the Emperor was incarcerated on its unforgiving surface all those many moons ago.

Please, shoot me over, i'm more than prepared for you guys getting upset and possibly even bolshy about me ever DARING to suggest such a thing.

its just what i believe, nothing more, nothing less.

And still, Elvis was Uber, and he's dead. So there. ;o)

Cheers!

Kage2020
28-11-2006, 22:04
Rockerfella... The Emperor is "mostly dead", to borrow from Miracle Max's term in The Princess Bride. His soul has fled his body to form the Star Child, which is pretty much dead-as-a-dodo, excepting that we know that something remains on the throne. Thus the lattitude were people can say that he is categorically alive, only to be countered that he is categorically dead. Just depends on which bit of "alive" or "dead" you're talking about.

Kage

Rockerfella
28-11-2006, 22:07
Rockerfella... The Emperor is "mostly dead", to borrow from Miracle Max's term in The Princess Bride. His soul has fled his body to form the Star Child, which is pretty much dead-as-a-dodo, excepting that we know that something remains on the throne. Thus the lattitude were people can say that he is categorically alive, only to be countered that he is categorically dead. Just depends on which bit of "alive" or "dead" you're talking about.

Kage

I understand....

Surely brother, following that same rationale, then Eldrad is only 'moslty' dead also? A percentage of his conscious still resides in several way stones. Do the same rules not apply?

Rockerfella
28-11-2006, 22:08
Oh, and the princess Bride... what a film..... *recently aquired this little gem for my darling Girlfriend... bless her! LOL

Core_Commander
28-11-2006, 22:27
Please, shoot me over, i'm more than prepared for you guys getting upset and possibly even bolshy about me ever DARING to suggest such a thing.


Well, I'm very far from that kind of an act... The Emperor-related background is one of the most hazy things in the whole WH40k, and open to speculations... There's quite an interesting thread about "could the Emperor cause the Horus Heresy", which I've been following with great amusement.

Besides, I'm not an Imperium player, so no personal feelings involved here either, heh. As far as 40k goes, I tend to get a *tad* touchy when someone starts comparing Tau to nazis/communists/mind flayers/daleks, and lately the return of Eldrad got the better of me... But I'm fine now, my spleen is all vented and healthy ;).

What I meant was that canonically, the Emperor is, indeed, supposed to be alive - ... to some degree. I believe the Emperor is "alive", though not concious, effectively making him nothing more than a (super)human powerplant... And an anchor for the Imperium nonetheless, although without a mind or soul anymore. But making this all a legend, and having the Emperor of Mankind die soon after Horus has a certain flavour too. But who can tell the truth in 4000 years-old legends ;)?

At the end of the day, everybody's free to belive what they want.

Cheers!

Rockerfella
28-11-2006, 22:30
Well, I'm very far from that kind of an act... The Emperor-related background is one of the most hazy things in the whole WH40k, and open to speculations... There's quite an interesting thread about "could the Emperor cause the Horus Heresy", which I've been following with great amusement.

!

Bless you sir!!!!

Yes, i've been following that thread myself, however, decided against posting on it, as i seem to know absolutely nothing about just about everything. So, i'm keeping myself quiet so i cant upset anyone.

CHeers!:)

Kage2020
28-11-2006, 22:32
You might want to try editting your posts rather than double-posting as a matter of course, Rockerfella. Seems a lot less spam/post inflation that way. :D


Surely brother, following that same rationale, then Eldrad is only 'mostly' dead also? A percentage of his conscious still resides in several way stones. Do the same rules not apply?
I have not really made a comment either way on what I feel to be the fate of Eldrad, so there's no need to try and pull me into that ultimately fruitless argument!

Kage

Rockerfella
28-11-2006, 22:43
You might want to try editting your posts rather than double-posting as a matter of course, Rockerfella. Seems a lot less spam/post inflation that way. :D


I have not really made a comment either way on what I feel to be the fate of Eldrad, so there's no need to try and pull me into that ultimately fruitless argument!

Kage

Double posting? Are you talking about the Princess Bride thing? Please, forgive me, i'm still quite new to this, and hindsight is as always 20/20. It was easier to just post again, rather than edit. I'll know for next time though Kage!! :)

Oh dear sir! It seems you misunderstand my motives/actions. I was simply making a statment of observation. As entertaining and informative as i find your opinions and posts, i have no need or desire to 'pull you into' any discussion or debate, as i'm sure you're perfectly capable of 'pulling yourself' into any such scenario of said nature.

However, when i think about it, just because you haven't made any comment on Eldrads fate, why should that stop me from trying to pull you into the argument at all? :D Surely thats the idea of the board, to ask questions you yourself may not have the answers to, but that someone else may be able to provide an interesting theory on? Yes.. of course it is.

Cheers! :)

ghost21
28-11-2006, 22:49
the chaos gods / emporer are quite psychcaly matched

folowing that probably eldrad / the nassicar race (they psychicaly pilot there ships!)

then probably an old ones that are about

Rockerfella
28-11-2006, 22:54
I think i need to go to bed. I used up most of the energy in my discustingly inept brain on the last post to kage....

Eldrad, Ahriman.. The (alive and kicking) Emperor.... mephistoathingy.... the apex twins...

Need sleep. ......

Nite folks.

Capt. Kaihara
28-11-2006, 22:59
The Emperor, bar none.

Commander Ozae
28-11-2006, 23:40
If you read the first post we're not talking about beings like the primarchs, Emperor, Gods of Chaos, etc because they're simply too powerful, we're talking more like you're average run of the mill psykers who are out and about in the galaxy.

Sparda
29-11-2006, 23:31
Actullay, the alpha level psykers are not the highest rank, here are the ranks-
Apex
Alpha Plus
Alpha
Beta
Gamma
Delta
Epsilon
...and so on down the Greek alphabet.
From wikipedia

Commander Ozae
30-11-2006, 00:06
Also, as the thread a while ago talked about psyker levels pointed out, the levels are variable and not set in stone.

Mojaco
30-11-2006, 07:37
Eldrad's main strength was the ability to know in advance what would happen and what needed to be done to stop that.
if he was as godlike as some like to see him, why did he ever need to die in combat? He could just prevent his killer being born, or place a landmine where he would walk. He's not a bad guy, but he isn't the manipulative power that would trick even Tzeentch. I think his death prove at least that.

hence my betting on Ahriman, 'cause he's either still playing out all the gods against each other, or Tzeentch is secretly backing him up, but both would make him an incredibly powerful player.

Rockerfella
30-11-2006, 07:51
Eldrad's main strength was the ability to know in advance what would happen and what needed to be done to stop that.
if he was as godlike as some like to see him, why did he ever need to die in combat? He could just prevent his killer being born, or place a landmine where he would walk. He's not a bad guy, but he isn't the manipulative power that would trick even Tzeentch. I think his death prove at least that.

hence my betting on Ahriman, 'cause he's either still playing out all the gods against each other, or Tzeentch is secretly backing him up, but both would make him an incredibly powerful player.

But, horus died. And to be fair, so did the Emperor. Its not about death. You see, i'm pretty sure he knew what was going to happen...

Its like the Obi wan Kanobe thing 'If you strike me down now Darth .. blah blah'.

Does that make sense?

And, to be fair. Eldrad was INCREDIBLY manipulative. He's more manipulative than my gilfriend, and brother, she would KICK Tzeentch's ASS. I'm being serious here. ;)

Cheers.

Tyron
30-11-2006, 09:35
But, horus died. And to be fair, so did the Emperor.


If the Emperor died then he would be the Star Child.

Griffin
30-11-2006, 09:55
Oh Good God - not the starchild thing AGAIN.

Rockerfella
30-11-2006, 10:41
If the Emperor died then he would be the Star Child.

Please, read the rest of the thread. The emperor is as good as dead. Unlucky. Personally, i don't like the guy anyway. He's a hypocrite.

Ah well.

Rock on. :)

TrooperTino
30-11-2006, 11:57
perhaps he's even more powerfull than before (the Emp.). He's worshipped by millions millions of humans and every day a thousand psykers are sacrificed to him. perhaps he's upgrading all the time to be, some day, more powerfull than *fill in what/who you like*

my vote (by the way) goes 'for others', not meaning the Emperor, but I think there are things in the Galaxy (like the 'Lith' in Eisenstein) that outclass the choices given.

from the choices given (exept the 'others') I'll stick to Eldrad (hey he's Eldar so he's got to be an ass-kicking psyker- he just use his powers to manipulate than fighting at the Frontline

Mojaco
30-11-2006, 12:06
I'm not classing the Emperor as manipulative anyway. He's not. Otherwise he wouldn't be so stupid to attack magnus even though he warned him. So that horus crippled (yes, crippled. He's not dead) him was just one of those things. He did see it being the climax of the siege, but not which way it would go.

His crippling is therefor not an issue. The most manilipulative psyckers are Eldrad, Magnus and Ahriman. Eldrad and Magnus both cocked up, so that leaved Ahriman at being the best. Unless you view the rubric of ahriman as a mistake, but I think Ahirman knew perfectly well what he did and liked it.

Empie is very powerful, but not in a seer kind of way. In fact, I think even a run of the mill farseer would best him at that.

Tyron
30-11-2006, 12:41
Please, read the rest of the thread. The emperor is as good as dead. Unlucky. Personally, i don't like the guy anyway. He's a hypocrite.


Show me where it says he's dead, AFIK he is still alive (as the fulff indicates anyway). If he was dead then he wouldnt be a guiding light for all the ships o f the Imperium and he would be joined with the rest of the human souls and becomes the Star Child (fact).


"hypocrite"? - Elaborate please.

Rockerfella
30-11-2006, 21:36
Show me where it says he's dead, AFIK he is still alive (as the fulff indicates anyway). If he was dead then he wouldnt be a guiding light for all the ships o f the Imperium and he would be joined with the rest of the human souls and becomes the Star Child (fact).


"hypocrite"? - Elaborate please.

Oh dear.

I'm tired of talkin about this....

Its so amusing to see some of the reactions that come flooding in when you 'dare' to criticise the Emperor or say something negative about him.

Please read what i said.. i said he's 'as good as dead'.

Star child???!?!???!? Please, leave that alone. Its like flogging a dead horse with me i'm afraid.


Next!

Tyron
30-11-2006, 21:46
Wow nice Rockerfella, nice deffence. You clearly got owned and know it :)

Rockerfella
30-11-2006, 22:00
Rockerfella... The Emperor is "mostly dead", to borrow from Miracle Max's term in The Princess Bride. His soul has fled his body to form the Star Child, which is pretty much dead-as-a-dodo, excepting that we know that something remains on the throne. Thus the lattitude were people can say that he is categorically alive, only to be countered that he is categorically dead. Just depends on which bit of "alive" or "dead" you're talking about.

Kage

Maybe you were trying to say this??

Either way, as far as i'm concerend, the Emperor is a grotesque mass of bones, who's almost sure to be insane, his childlike view of the cosmos akin to that of a pickled beetroot, except with less perspective.

The golden throne is a glorified life supprt machine. In the Jaq Draco books, he clearly describes the emperor's mind as 'fractured, insane, and capricious'. I even think he claims the emperor to be a Schitzoid.

Bottom line, is that the throne is all that keeps him alive. So, he's a 'good as dead'.

But, hey, thats my opinion. Isn't free speech wonderful??

Cheers. :)

Tyron
30-11-2006, 22:08
Nice so you didnt show any proof he is dead. Nice try though.......not.

Rockerfella
30-11-2006, 22:15
Nice so you didnt show any proof he is dead. Nice try though.......not.

Bless you sir.

In future, please read my posts. I said he's as 'good as dead'. Either acknowledge that, or bog off. ;)

I'm not going to sit here and argue with you for the sake of an argument. Its like talking to a wall. So, either talk sense to me, or, don't talk at all brother.

Now, the topic of the thread is 'the strongest psyker in the 40k universe' yes?

Are we agree'd? Excellent...There is a poll at the top there, i'm interested to know who you voted for, as your beloved emperor isn't an option. Well, there's the 'other' option, so i guess you could squeeze his irrelevant ass in there if you're desperate enough to have an 'emperor vote'.

If not, out of the options that are available, who would you pick?

cheers.

Tyron
30-11-2006, 22:24
"In future, please read my posts. I said he's as 'good as dead'. Either acknowledge that, or bog off."

You said - But, horus died. And to be fair, so did the Emperor.

So indeed you are a hypocrite, oh and an Emperor hater

"
I'm not going to sit here and argue with you for the sake of an argument. Its like talking to a wall. So, either talk sense to me, or, don't talk at all brother."

I am though, its the fact I'm smashing your lgoic like cheap glass and you result to petty attacks. I asked you to prove he was dead as you claiemd you faild to do so. I asked you to elaborate on the *hypocrite* you faild to do so. Keep up with the petty insults like sod off ect cause you know I'm right :)

Rockerfella
30-11-2006, 22:32
"In future, please read my posts. I said he's as 'good as dead'. Either acknowledge that, or bog off."

You said - But, horus died. And to be fair, so did the Emperor.

So indeed you are a hypocrite, oh and an Emperor hater

"
I'm not going to sit here and argue with you for the sake of an argument. Its like talking to a wall. So, either talk sense to me, or, don't talk at all brother."

I am though, its the fact I'm smashing your lgoic like cheap glass and you result to petty attacks. I asked you to prove he was dead as you claiemd you faild to do so. I asked you to elaborate on the *hypocrite* you faild to do so. Keep up with the petty insults like sod off ect cause you know I'm right :)

What i do know is that you're talking absolute nosense. Smashing my 'logic'? My, this is laughable.

An 'emperor hater'? What on earth makes you think that? I'm no such thing, i just love to observe the outcry that 'Emperor ass lovers' make when i make a silly comment about his 'fallibility' or the fact he's 'as good as dead'. Or that he's 'insane' (very likely) or his mind is a jelly like mess (very likely) or that he's a Schitzoid (almost a certainty). Just opinions.. but, please, remember, just becasue i don't subscribe to the same opinions or beliefs that you do, that dosent then make me an 'emperor hater'. :eek:

Please leave me to my opinions. Just becasue i think he's as good as dead, (which is my right by the way) dosent mean you have to get so upset now.

If you keep claiming you're 'smashing my Logic' then i'll start correcting your spelling mistakes for you. I cant help it, i'm a student teacher. Forgive me...:rolleyes:

Now, back to the topic. Who did you vote for? And, why, if i may ask did you vote for that character. :)

Tyron
30-11-2006, 22:50
Neat, you evade my post completely, you really are a child :)

Rockerfella
30-11-2006, 22:53
Neat, you evade my post completely, you really are a child :)

*sighs*

How old are you? Seriously?

Speaking of children, its way past my bedtime. Seemingly i've wasted an hour talking to a walking brick.

If you can find it in you to answer my question, it would be much appreciated (about the topic of this thread? Remember? The poll? Up there? ^^) Cheers.

Good night. ;)

Tyron
30-11-2006, 22:56
Brick walls can talk now? If not you must be talking to yourself or spamming as usual.

I already said its the Emperor.

Rockerfella
30-11-2006, 23:02
Brick walls can talk now? If not you must be talking to yourself or spamming as usual.

I already said its the Emperor.

A brick... a brick... not a wall.. a brick.. that's you.. you are the brick. :D I've just spent an hour talking to...you. I hope you realise i'm teasing you here. No hard feelings, just having some light hearted fun.

Right, the Emperor, of course. Right... *i'm not an Emperor hater, i'm not an Emperor hater*

Ok, so the Emperor it is. Right ok. The Emperor... emperor emperor emperor emperor. Alrightly then....

Well, i thought you may have voted for his majesty, the royal corpse. I kinda got the impression you are an Emperor fan. *ponders*

Ok, cheers for answering. Take care brother. :)

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz *hits the sack*

Kage2020
01-12-2006, 03:03
It's always fun to see when people are passionate enough about a subject to get into argubates, more so when they pull back (well, for the most part) from the typical flaming that occurs at these times. With that in mind, though, I just thought I would fuel the fire with some quotes:


CHAOS TRIUMPHANT

...Even the Emperor was not invulnerable. Just as Horus had been corrupted, he too ran the risk of being perverted by the touch of Chaos...
And:



...But the Emperor had overextended his powers, for no man of living flesh could act as the vessel of so much power and survive. The charred husk of the Emperor fell to the ground amidst a pall of smoke and darkness...
And:


...As the Emperor lay dying his psychic energy ebbed from his body. The immortality which had sustained him for so many centuries was no more, and the weight of age descended upon him. His body shrank and his bones cracked, his eyes shrunk into his skull and his skin darkened so all that remained inside his armour was a shrivelled mummy-like thing.

Released from his body, the Emperor's psychic power, his soul, was cast adrift upon the tides of the warp...
Just the obvious ones, of course. The 'fluff' is remarkably open to intrepretation despite the above... ;)

Kage

Rockerfella
01-12-2006, 06:43
It's always fun to see when people are passionate enough about a subject to get into argubates, more so when they pull back (well, for the most part) from the typical flaming that occurs at these times. With that in mind, though, I just thought I would fuel the fire with some quotes:


And:



And:


Just the obvious ones, of course. The 'fluff' is remarkably open to intrepretation despite the above... ;)

Kage

You never cease to amaze me. Excellent quotes...

I was sat there last night talking (argubating) to Tyron ( i think thats his name, bless him) and wondering what you would bring to the party.

Those quotes are superb. Thanks for the contribution. Anymore would be MUCH appreciated!


Its a shame, because i just dont have the knowledge or the reasoning skills to contribute effectively in some debates, this one being a perfect example. :eyebrows:

Anyways, thanks again for the quotes, very interesting stuff. :)

Tyron
01-12-2006, 13:50
Kage he is at the the final stage of death, we all know this. If he was dead he WOULD be the Star Child as everyone knows and it has been in the books.

Like the Inquisitor rulebook, where the 4 Inquesitors were split in half because some believe they can bring him fully back while the other two want him remained seated.

We discussed this before on msn man, you know what I think of the Emperor (and a certain someone), you just want to drag on the "debate".

Rockerfella
01-12-2006, 15:01
Then, let the debate be dragged on!

;o)

Kage2020
01-12-2006, 15:04
Methinks that there is some confusion about the 'fluff', Tyron. The Emperor's soul is already the Star Child, and his cells continue to die. That's why communication between the Emperor had "his subjects" has becoming increasingly rare, though the period between such communications, or the date of the last, are unknown. (Well, that depends on whether you believe in Draco's account or not, or believe that 'fluff' is relevant.) The nature of what remains on the Golden Throne is contentious, some saying that it is the Emperor's consciousness, while others believe it is perhaps that and the fragmenting "Many Mind" of the Shaman...

As to "dragging on the debate"? No, not really. I read through the last few posts, someone asked for some information that I could, at the time, provide. So I did.

As to what the Inquisitors discussed? Remember that just because an Inquisitor said it doesn't neceessarily make it true. After all, the confused nature of the 'fluff' is a deliberate act by the writers of the background. It's one of the reasons that I smile when ever the "thrice damned tablet" is mentioned! ;)

Kage

Ian Von Doom
03-12-2006, 06:18
one thing, didn't the whole "star child" horror begin in the draco novels? the ones where the Eldar are shown to be the bloody damn pixies from darby o gill and all speak irish?! the one that feels like you've been forced to make sweet love to a barrel of rusty nails?
eldrad and all farseers (so not just el Zombo Magnifico) have beyond human powers but if they burn out too many runes... slaanash eats them, so in my opinion a sufficiently angry or desperate seer... or eldrad when he rides into town as the CPU of that blackstone fortress... hehehe... nightriders 40,000... someone ressurect david hasselhoff... ahriman is super, but he' a sorceror not just a psyker, same as magnus most of his power has nothing to do with psykic ability, he gains it through ritual and artifacts etc, so he's not really up for "most powerful psyker"
and the emporer is basically a human hive mind now, regardless of mental state, so he's inelegable too right?

Nazguire
03-12-2006, 07:12
one thing, didn't the whole "star child" horror begin in the draco novels? the ones where the Eldar are shown to be the bloody damn pixies from darby o gill and all speak irish?! the one that feels like you've been forced to make sweet love to a barrel of rusty nails?
eldrad and all farseers (so not just el Zombo Magnifico) have beyond human powers but if they burn out too many runes... slaanash eats them, so in my opinion a sufficiently angry or desperate seer... or eldrad when he rides into town as the CPU of that blackstone fortress... hehehe... nightriders 40,000... someone ressurect david hasselhoff... ahriman is super, but he' a sorceror not just a psyker, same as magnus most of his power has nothing to do with psykic ability, he gains it through ritual and artifacts etc, so he's not really up for "most powerful psyker"
and the emporer is basically a human hive mind now, regardless of mental state, so he's inelegable too right?


The Star Child started before the Inquisition War.
The runes protect Farseers from possession or other such fate by being used a medium through the psychic energy can be channeled through. Different powered runes (and different Farseer skill levels obviously) mean more or less power able to be channeled and used before burning up.
Sorcerors use psychic abilities to even begin with. The reason that the Thousand Sons Legion contains a huge amount of sorcerors was because the sorcerors were all psykers. Ahriman was the Chief Librarian of the Thousand Sons, a huge feat in a Legion of psykers. Plus the 10,000 years of learning from tomes, daemons, Gods, demi-gods (Magnus before exile) etc certainly ranks him as one of the most powerful psykers.
Emperor...hive mind? Gah? Because he controls the Astronomicon, calms the Warp and does other fancy things? Nope.
The Hydra is the human hive mind you are thinking of I believe.

Imperialis_Dominatus
03-12-2006, 07:59
The Hydra is the human hive mind you are thinking of I believe.

*sigh*

I know I'm going to regret this- each answered fluff question brings yet more questions- but what is the Hydra? Is it the conglameration of psykers powering the Astronomican? Is it a Warp entity?

Nazguire
03-12-2006, 08:11
*sigh*

I know I'm going to regret this- each answered fluff question brings yet more questions- but what is the Hydra? Is it the conglameration of psykers powering the Astronomican? Is it a Warp entity?

Sit down son, and let me tell you a story.
A story about a clown and his jelly fish.

Once upon a time, in a galaxy not so far away in the far distant 'future' there lived a man named Carnelius. He was a funny man, who pretended to be a Harlequin, all because he was an Illuminati.
Together with some of his Inquisitor buddies, they made a jelly fish squid thing that would reproduce hydra style every time you killed it. They loved it, and it loved them. The hydra could also control what people thought. Carnelius wanted to use it to control Humanity. Not for bad things you see, no that's naughty. He wanted to stop people rebeling against...well...anything that the Inquisitors and Carnelius thought about. Because treachery is bad bad BAD!

They hoped to spread it around the Imperium, to every world, where it would control the minds of the people that lived there. This would make clown man Carnelius very happy :D

Eventually a nice man, his assassin lover and a Squat (thou shalt not speak of them EVER again) named Jaq Draco, Meh'Lindi and Grimm killed the Inquisitors (most of them) disposed of the Hydra (can't remember how) and Carnelius got angry.

The End.

elvinltl
05-12-2006, 14:25
Are we living in a age where democracy/capitalism prevails or where imperialism dominates?
Clearly the Emperor sucks. :P

Nazguire
05-12-2006, 21:17
Are we living in a age where democracy/capitalism prevails or where imperialism dominates?
Clearly the Emperor sucks. :P

Maybe it's all part of his Divine plan.

Or maybe the Emperor doesn't exist. That could also be a strong contender :P

Corporal Chaos
06-12-2006, 14:31
The pointy ears are the most attuned to the psychy things. So any Farseer actually.

Altashheth
06-12-2006, 14:33
emperor, and why isnt he on equal footing?

Rockerfella
06-12-2006, 16:30
Not the Emperor, again... *sighs*

Slaaneshi Slave
06-12-2006, 17:18
How about a Norn Queen? Tzeentch is god and thus not part of the election.

He is only a God because he is a being of such power that nobody can tell him he is not a god. Exactly the same as the Emperor.

So I stand by my statement that Tzeentch is the most powerful psycher.

Rockerfella
06-12-2006, 17:59
He is only a God because he is a being of such power that nobody can tell him he is not a god. Exactly the same as the Emperor.

So I stand by my statement that Tzeentch is the most powerful psycher.

I think Horus had something to say about the Emperor being a god, hence the Emperors current 'i'm almost dead, and have no idea what planet i'm on, oh wait, is that a beetroot jellyfish there.. Heeeeeeehehehee... i love corriander yada yada' type insane warblings.

Just a thought....:eyebrows:

Warp_touched
07-12-2006, 04:48
Eldrad. Hanndsss down.
Common' What hasn't he predicted?

Forbiddenknowledge
07-12-2006, 10:42
Uh, his own death IIRC....

Champion of Biel-Tan
07-12-2006, 14:26
Uh, his own death IIRC....

He predicted this, He died knowingly his death was at hand.

CaptainSenioris
07-12-2006, 14:51
Why wasn't the Emperor even incuded in this poll?

My apologies if this has been mentioned in this thread.

Slaaneshi Slave
07-12-2006, 17:32
Because the Emperor is many people, not one. He is the amalgamation of many ancient shamans.

Fear is the mind killer
07-12-2006, 23:25
Ahriman is the moat powerful, as Eldrad is known for being able to predict the future incredibly well, and Tigurius can sort of read the hive mind's mind, but Ahriman was capable of annihilating the bodies of almost an entire legion of space marines (with the cabal's help) and from there has gathered masses of knowledge and power in a much wider variety of psychic abilities. If he manages to access the black library he will then have enough knowledge and power to become a god. If he's that powerful then he must be second only to the Emperor. He also has the most psychic powers gamewise I think (can't remember Eldrad's rules).

Rockerfella
08-12-2006, 06:25
. If he manages to access the black library he will then have enough knowledge and power to become a god. If he's that powerful then he must be second only to the Emperor. He also has the most psychic powers gamewise I think (can't remember Eldrad's rules).

I just cant see this happening. Apparently, those who guard the black library are the most terrible entities in the galaxy. :D

Ahriman was asked to politely leave (well, he was slapped sensless and hurled out of the webway) the first time he attempted to enter the black library.

Remember, the laughing god himself still stalks the webway, i'm sure if Ahriman was close enough to getting inside Cegorachs comfort zone, he would have something to say about it...

:)

Cheeers!

Fear is the mind killer
08-12-2006, 13:19
Yeah but Ahriman has plenty of time and a few hundred extremely cunning sorcerers to help him. The guards may be terrible, but he might just sneak past by getting some army to attack them and use that as a distraction. Besides, no matter how powerful they are, enough gift of chaos attacks can defeat anything, even c'tan. After that it'll be down to duffing up the laughing god, so who knows who would win then?

Slaaneshi Slave
08-12-2006, 13:24
But the entire structure is the guardian, not just some crappy Eldar Guardians standing at the gates. ;)

Fear is the mind killer
08-12-2006, 14:47
I didn't know that the structure was the guardian. I thought that the entrance to the balck library was guarded by terrible guardians (that's about as much detail as they give). Where does it say that the structure is the guardian?

the_dark_sarge
09-12-2006, 05:00
cleary Ahriman
now blood for the blood god i mean something for the sorcery god

Rockerfella
09-12-2006, 09:54
Yeah but Ahriman has plenty of time and a few hundred extremely cunning sorcerers to help him. The guards may be terrible, but he might just sneak past by getting some army to attack them and use that as a distraction. Besides, no matter how powerful they are, enough gift of chaos attacks can defeat anything, even c'tan. After that it'll be down to duffing up the laughing god, so who knows who would win then?

'Tricking' the Harlequins and Solitaires that guard it? Not to mention the Laughing God himself? Naaaaah. I think you're going to need more than just 'an army, time and a few hundred cunning sorcerers' for that little quest.

He's tried it once and had his ass handed to him on a rather tasty paper plate, with a chipolata and a sausage roll added by curtesy of Cegorach and co.

At least i think he'll need more than just that kind of help anyway. ;)

Fear is the mind killer
09-12-2006, 10:17
All I can say is never underestimate chaos, especially Tzeentch. If there's any way that it can be done they'll find it. The cunningness(sp?) of the laughing god and the harlequins is comparable to Tzeentch and his many many sorcerers, and when it comes to actual brute force, Tzeentch has an unlimited supply of daemons.

It all boils down to whether Tzeentch wants Ahriman to have access to the library, which I consider unlikely. Perhaps he'll let Ahriman defeat the guardians and then turn Ahriman into spawn or teleport him across the galaxy and then do whatever he wants with the black library.

Anyway, if Ahriman is that close to godhood, he must be the most powerful psyker.

Champion of Biel-Tan
09-12-2006, 12:41
All I can say is never underestimate chaos, especially Tzeentch. If there's any way that it can be done they'll find it. The cunningness(sp?) of the laughing god and the harlequins is comparable to Tzeentch and his many many sorcerers, and when it comes to actual brute force, Tzeentch has an unlimited supply of daemons.

It all boils down to whether Tzeentch wants Ahriman to have access to the library, which I consider unlikely. Perhaps he'll let Ahriman defeat the guardians and then turn Ahriman into spawn or teleport him across the galaxy and then do whatever he wants with the black library.

Anyway, if Ahriman is that close to godhood, he must be the most powerful psyker.

I never underestimated chaos (and tzeentch) but he can't even find The Laughing God even with those 'cunning sorcerors' of his.
The guardians of the Black Library are called in the new Eldar codex: 'the most dreaded of the Eldar kindreds<-- this means they are even powerfuller then Solitaires which play Slaannesh in their dances and are thuss one of the most powerfull Harlequins. Combined with the structure which they know and Ahriman/Tzeentch doesn't makes an impenetrateable defense

Rockerfella
09-12-2006, 12:52
I never underestimated chaos (and tzeentch) but he can't even find The Laughing God even with those 'cunning sorcerors' of his.
The guardians of the Black Library are called in the new Eldar codex: 'the most dreaded of the Eldar kindreds<-- this means they are even powerfuller then Solitaires which play Slaannesh in their dances and are thuss one of the most powerfull Harlequins. Combined with the structure which they know and Ahriman/Tzeentch doesn't makes an impenetrateable defense

Agreed.

Tzeentch isn't the all poweful deity that folk on this thread seem to think it is. If he could have gained access to the library, he would have already done so. Unfortunately for all the Tzeentch and Arhiman lovers, he tried it once already, didn't even get inside, and had his cheeks slapped silly by the guardians of the Library. The Laughing god didn't even show up. So... guess that shows how 'worried' he was.

Its not as simple as Tzeentch wanting Ahriman to have access to the library. Even if he did want him to gain entry, dont you think that the sublime cunning and trickery of the laughing god and his guardians may have something to say about it? Like they did the first time Ahriman tried to get inside?

:rolleyes:

Commander Ozae
09-12-2006, 13:54
And it would probably serve Tzeentch's purposes to never let Ahriman have access to the library because he might gain too much knowledge of chaos and become a threat. The changer of ways likes to control things, not have them get out of hand.

Fear is the mind killer
09-12-2006, 18:10
If there's even the slightest chance of something happening then given an infinite amount of time it will happen, so if it is possible then Tzeentch will find a way, otherwise it'll never happen. There isn't enough fluff on this point to come to a definite conclusion.

This is all assuming that a) Tzeentch wants Ahriman to access the Black Library, and b) that the Laughing God isn't just another one of Tzeentch's many secret identities.

Tymell
09-12-2006, 18:17
Voted "Other", for The Emperor. Yes, I did read the first post and I know it says he's not on equal footing, but what's the point of a "who's the strongest" poll if you don't include the strongest :wtf:

Champion of Biel-Tan
10-12-2006, 12:41
Voted "Other", for The Emperor. Yes, I did read the first post and I know it says he's not on equal footing, but what's the point of a "who's the strongest" poll if you don't include the strongest :wtf:

The Emperor isn't even a real psyker so he could NEVER be the strongest.
Plus he is a granny in a superlarge live support chair.
And please, The whole starchild thingy is just some fluff made up to keep the imperium players happy

Tymell
10-12-2006, 13:18
The Emperor isn't even a real psyker so he could NEVER be the strongest.
Plus he is a granny in a superlarge live support chair.
And please, The whole starchild thingy is just some fluff made up to keep the imperium players happy

He's a human with psychic powers, how else should he be described?

Rockerfella
10-12-2006, 13:41
If there's even the slightest chance of something happening then given an infinite amount of time it will happen, so if it is possible then Tzeentch will find a way, otherwise it'll never happen. There isn't enough fluff on this point to come to a definite conclusion.

This is all assuming that that the Laughing God isn't just another one of Tzeentch's many secret identities.

Or visa versa....

Remember, the laughing god was around waaaay before Tzeentch was even born into the warp....

And, in my eyes, your perception of chance and percentage is a little off. Look at it like this. If its 1% likely to happen, even given an infinite amount of time, there's still only 1% chance it will happen. Its just more likely to happen. Its NOT guaranteed to happen, regardless of the amout of time you place on it, unless its a 100% guaranteed to happen. Thats the way chance and percentage work i'm afraid.

Champion of Biel-Tan
10-12-2006, 15:18
He's a human with psychic powers, how else should he be described?

What psychic powers?
what can he do? **** off the golden throne and it lands on one of the custodes?

Tymell
10-12-2006, 15:56
What psychic powers?
what can he do? **** off the golden throne and it lands on one of the custodes?

This poll obviously doesn't refer only to the current point in time, since Eldrad is now dead (or certainly not capable of much), so you can hardly only talk about the Emperor as he is now :eyebrows:

Besides, the Astronomican throws up the question even if you do only take the current time.

Champion of Biel-Tan
10-12-2006, 17:38
This poll obviously doesn't refer only to the current point in time, since Eldrad is now dead (or certainly not capable of much), so you can hardly only talk about the Emperor as he is now :eyebrows:

Besides, the Astronomican throws up the question even if you do only take the current time.

but what could he do with his psychic powers?
hurl tanks in the air? predict the future?

Fear is the mind killer
10-12-2006, 17:40
And, in my eyes, your perception of chance and percentage is a little off. Look at it like this. If its 1% likely to happen, even given an infinite amount of time, there's still only 1% chance it will happen. Its just more likely to happen. Its NOT guaranteed to happen, regardless of the amout of time you place on it, unless its a 100% guaranteed to happen. Thats the way chance and percentage work i'm afraid.

1%=0.01

Therefore 1% probability given an infinite amount of time

=0.01 X Infinity

=Infinity, so it will definitely happen. The key point is that instead of multiplying 0.01 by a large number(which would result in a possibility of failure), you're multiplying it by the unlimited number/concept. The only thing that the probability influences is the success:failure ratio.

Lord Zarkov
10-12-2006, 18:16
It depends whether it is defined as 1% chance of it happening, or 1% in a given amount of time, your argument holds with the latter but not with the former.

Tymell
10-12-2006, 18:27
but what could he do with his psychic powers?
hurl tanks in the air? predict the future?

Have you read anything to do with the Emperor? :confused: He could indeed do both of those things, not to mention plain old psychic bolts of incredible power, the ability to communicate across the galaxy, and, with the Astronomican, become an effective "lighthouse" of the warp. Just have a read of any material involving him.

Fear is the mind killer
10-12-2006, 18:30
It depends whether it is defined as 1% chance of it happening, or 1% in a given amount of time, your argument holds with the latter but not with the former.
Well it wouldn't be 1% regardless of how much time had passed, having more time to do this would increase the number of attempts you could make, so it must be the latter.

Lamhirh
10-12-2006, 19:06
Neither the Emperor, Eldrad or Ahriman can withstand the power of:

The savior of the universe... (http://mary.sue.youaremighty.com/)

:cheese:

Rockerfella
11-12-2006, 10:22
Seems Eldrad is kicking major ass in this poll. And so he should. *so there*

Anyways, back to this Ahriman polava. Firstly, its a tad daft to assume he has an infinite amount of time. So, lets, for the sake of argument, assume he dosent have that amount of time. Lets look at the evidence. He's already tried to get into the black library once, and was forcefully rejected at the 'gates' or something. So, he didn't even get inside.

Well done Ahriman, five gold stars for finding it, now comes the hard part, getting iside. And, lets be fair, once inside, god knows whats going to happen. Its just frightening to think the powers, the arcane and ancient ways, tactics and forces the Solitaires, harlequins and whatever these 'terrible Eldar guardians' may employ to kick Ahrimans behind if he ever gets inside. Bless him.

Oh, one more thing... i can see Cegorach having something utterly alien and terrible, so utterly evil and devilish waiting for young Ahriman if he ever got inside. Cegorach may even Play him all along, letting him get close, so close to his goal and ultimate power that its inches from his grasp, finally playing one last uber cruel joke on him, taking it away at the last second. Making the bitter loss of faliure even more difficult to deal with. Knowing your tried you hardest, used all your power, only to be played like a pawn all along by the Laughing God himself.

How inadequate would you feel? very....

Good luck Ahriman! You're gonna need it!! ;P

Champion of Biel-Tan
11-12-2006, 14:59
Have you read anything to do with the Emperor? :confused: He could indeed do both of those things, not to mention plain old psychic bolts of incredible power, the ability to communicate across the galaxy, and, with the Astronomican, become an effective "lighthouse" of the warp. Just have a read of any material involving him.

Well i did read the rulebook and Space Marine codex and nothing saying anything (if i remember well) about the Emperor being doing psychic things. (a psyker is by the way an individiual who manipulates the warp to do things)
And he can't predict the future (atleast not as well as Eldrad) because Eldrad Ulthran warned him of Horus betrayal and he didn't believe him.

Tymell
11-12-2006, 17:56
Well i did read the rulebook and Space Marine codex and nothing saying anything (if i remember well) about the Emperor being doing psychic things. (a psyker is by the way an individiual who manipulates the warp to do things)
And he can't predict the future (atleast not as well as Eldrad) because Eldrad Ulthran warned him of Horus betrayal and he didn't believe him.

The Astronomican pretty drastically plays with the Warp. His Warp presence has been said to be equal to that of the Chaos Gods. Seriuously, I really wouldn't advise trying to argue that the Emperor isn't a psyker ;) Whether he's the most powerful is a debate, granted, but not that he qualifies at all.

And no one, not even Eldrad, can predict the future unerringly. Being able to see into it doesn't mean being able to know everything. But several sources (the Horus Heresy trilogy of books and the artwork books to name two) cite him as having psychic foresight to some degree.