PDA

View Full Version : Wall of fire question



klinktastic
25-11-2006, 01:27
I was looking at the wall of fire spell, and it has received a significant increase in effectiveness in 7th edition. I was wondering if you had a character in a unit target by wall of fire, does having the character leave the unit cause the unit to take the entire unit hit and is the spell then dispelled.

I read the character rule as a character becomes part of the unit until he decides to leave it. (p. 72 in the big rule book)

This would mean that the character can decide to leave, thus becomes not part of the unit, then moves out of the unit, not causing it to detonate the spell as the targets the unit and not the character.

Can you guys confirm my hypothesis on this situation?

Yellow Commissar
25-11-2006, 03:30
klinktastic asked "Can you guys confirm my hypothesis on this situation?"

I don't speak for anyone else, but no. The caster may choose to have the spell effect either the unit of the character when the character leaves the unit.

Tate
25-11-2006, 05:08
Any citation to back that up commissar? Not saying you are wrong, but proof is nice.

Here are the possible outcomes:

1) Character leaves the unit, triggers the spell and it affects only the character, spell ends.

2) Character leaves the unit, triggers the spell and it affects the character and the unit, spell ends.

3) Character leaves the unit, triggers the spell and it affects the unit and not the character, spell ends.

4) Character leaves the unit, spell is not triggered, spell remains in play.


My gut tells me its option 2, but I have no proof. However, option 3 seems nice as well because the character is not part of the unit after he decides to leave (p72). However, the unit changes in size, which is like moving (here I get fuzzy) so the spell is triggered (as per spell description, if the unit moves for any reason. . .). The character is no longer in the unit, and is thus not affected. Seems a bit ass-backwards, but its an interesting question.

Festus
25-11-2006, 08:40
Hi

1) and 4) are possible, as the caster has to decide where the spell effect sticks. It can't be both parts. (see: BRB, p110, right column)
A Character leaving a unit is not a movement of the unit, even if it has to redress ranks.

Festus

DeathlessDraich
25-11-2006, 12:01
Good question klinktastic. Harder than it appears.

pg 110: If a character and a unit are under the effects of a RIP spell and then the character leaves, the caster must decide which one will be affected from then onwards, the character or the unit

Tate: (1) and not quite [(3) - RIP] depending on the player's choice.

Festus
25-11-2006, 13:23
Hi

Tate: (1) and not quite [(3) - RIP] depending on the player's choice.
How did you manage to get onto this steep slope?
Option 3 can never be right, as the character is not part of the unit anymore when he leaves. and the unit doesn't move.

Redressing ranks is not movement, as X-bowmen wouldn't be able to shoot if suffering casualties.

Movement is only what is given in the Movenment section of the BRB, like charges, formation change, wheel, turn, etc.

So 3 can not be, only 1 and 4 are possible, as both parts cannot be affected if the character leaves. If the unit moves later on, it can trigger the spell in the case the caster chose the spell to stick to the unit and not the character (4) , though.

Festus

Yellow Commissar
25-11-2006, 15:12
Any citation to back that up commissar? Not saying you are wrong, but proof is nice.

Oh, sure. Sorry, I forgot my page reference. Try page 110 'Remains in Play' Spells.

DeathlessDraich
25-11-2006, 16:41
Hi
Option 3 can never be right, as the character is not part of the unit anymore when he leaves. and the unit doesn't move.

Redressing ranks is not movement, as X-bowmen wouldn't be able to shoot if suffering casualties.

Festus

I didn't say [3] is right but "not quite 3" which I suppose is 4 with a proviso that the 'movement' is another debate

Festus
26-11-2006, 10:37
Hi

Oh, then I misunderstood what you wanted to say. Sorry for that.

Number 4 is still an option for the caster, though.

Festus

klinktastic
27-11-2006, 02:00
Bump! Can anyone give me a suggestion as how to play this?

mageith
27-11-2006, 03:31
Bump! Can anyone give me a suggestion as how to play this?
.....
This would mean that the character can decide to leave, thus becomes not part of the unit, then moves out of the unit, not causing it to detonate the spell as the targets the unit and not the character.

Can you guys confirm my hypothesis on this situation?
??? I think you've got your answer. It could happen your way but it's up the caster of the spell.

It's a commonly accepted convention that once a character actually begins his move out of the unit, he's now a separate unit. It's at that point the caster of the spell (player, of course) is required to tell you how it's going to work.

The character can declare his intention whenever he wants but it's when the actual movement begins which is important.

Shaitan
27-11-2006, 09:41
I have two other questions about this spell.....

What if this spell is cast in front of an enemy unit, and I charge this unit is my following round. When charging it, I must move through the Wall of Fire. Does my unit suffer hits from the spell?

And what about line of sight? Does this spell block LoS for the unit on wich it is cast?

mageith
27-11-2006, 15:22
I have two other questions about this spell.....

What if this spell is cast in front of an enemy unit, and I charge this unit is my following round. When charging it, I must move through the Wall of Fire. Does my unit suffer hits from the spell?

And what about line of sight? Does this spell block LoS for the unit on wich it is cast?

I'd say no, no.

It doesn't block Line of sight because things on the ground don't generally block line of sight in this edition and also because the spell description doesn't day it blocks line of sight.

Even the GW Wall of Fire Marker isn't big enough to block line of sight. ;)

Only enemy/target units/models are harmed by the fire per the description of the spell.

Tate
27-11-2006, 18:15
So if you cast the spell at an enemy unit, charged them, won, and then they fled, they would trigger the spell and take hits. Kind of cool, but I suppose if you were going to charge and win you wouldnt have cast the spell anyway.

Shaitan
28-11-2006, 09:58
Maybe the spell just reduced the number of ranks of the enemy unit and because of that you manage to win the combat :) Just a hypothetical situation though...

Thanks for the feedback. I think it is all clear now.

Festus
28-11-2006, 12:50
Hi

Even if you fought them and lost, the enemy would trigger the spell in its pursuit :D

Ideal for MSU tactics...

Festus

Shaitan
28-11-2006, 13:01
The spell is beginning to look more and more usefull for it's high cast value! :)

Gorbad Ironclaw
28-11-2006, 14:00
Can you cast it into combat? Because if not it's going to take quite some planning to get to do that. As you would have engaged the enemy before you get to cast spells(mostly).

Shaitan
29-11-2006, 08:19
I have once casted it on a unit of crossbow-men. The turn after that, I was thinking about charging that unit.

Because I didn't know what would happen with the Wall of Fire in that case I decided not to charge. (The chariot and Marauder Horsemen in the flank would do the job on their own :) )