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Brother Edwin
03-04-2005, 11:40
Skaven 2,000pts

Please rate my skaven army.

CHARACTERS
Grey Seer. 2 dispel scrolls. Warpstone armlet. Eye of horned rat.
235
Engineer. All upgrades. 2 dispel scrolls.
135
Engineer. All upgrades. Storm daemon.
110
Engineer. All upgrades. Dispel scroll.
110

CORE
25 clanrats. Standard bearer. Musician. Ratling gun.
200
25 clanrats. Standard bearer. Musician. Ratling gun.
200
25 clanrats. Standard bearer. Musician. Ratling gun.
200
25 clanrats. Standard bearer. Musician. Ratling gun.
200
21 slaves
42
21 slaves
42
2 rat swarms
90

SPECIAL
3 tunneling gutter runners
45
3 tunneling gutter runners
45
3 tunneling gutter runners.
45


RARE
warp-lightning cannon
100
warp-lightning cannon
100

Total:1,999points

Ethereal Alpaca
03-04-2005, 12:32
This is a SAD army, and the reason skaven get such a bad reputation.

3 warlocks and a grey seer? So that's what, 9D6 S5 hits per magic phase. And two WLCs. And FOUR ratling guns!

I suggest you go back to square one and start from scratch. Make a fun army instead of maxing out skryre all the time...

Akuma
03-04-2005, 12:46
Booring but effective - at least untill the new eddition and new skav codex changes :>

Ethereal Alpaca
03-04-2005, 12:49
Ummm...who says it's going to change?

Akuma
03-04-2005, 13:20
Well I do ... Trust me on that - thought is still long way off ;)

Ethereal Alpaca
03-04-2005, 13:30
I think chances are that 7th ed. warhammer will be like 40k, ie, changes to the basic rules but not the army books. Anyway, we're going off topic here (though all this thread will get on topic is cries of cheese...)

Festering Chantor
03-04-2005, 13:48
Winning isn't everything, better having an army that looks immpressive on the table with lots of different units (or even better; a theme) and getting beaten.

Take that list to a turnament. Don't use that list when you play against your friends, they're going to strangle you.

(Would like to see when the dices turn on you and all your precious warmachines blows up in your face!)

Slappy
03-04-2005, 14:12
People, this guy is just a troll. He posts this same list on other Warhammer message boards just to get a rise out of people.

Ordo Hereticus
03-04-2005, 16:15
try and squeeze in a warpstone charm on your grey seer bro edwin, trust me its a life saver

Akuma
03-04-2005, 16:16
Acctualy it's not that hard as it's just most generic SAD list :)

Brother Edwin
05-04-2005, 21:42
Will add a charm somehow.


Do we think's a warlord is better than a grey seer? Better Ld, plus not so bad if he dies.

Geetarman
06-04-2005, 07:46
Personally I would never touch this list because, as mentioned, its a SAD list (Shooty Army of Death) with far too many ratling guns and warlocks for my liking.

Because of that I can't really say how to improve it other than "throw it away and try again"

I have also heard that the skaven army book will be under revision sooner than some people might expect as skaven are far too powerful currently (far too many magical attacks of st5 etc above) I am a skaven player and even I would welcome this!

The new skaven lustria armybook looks spunky tho'

Gman

Ethereal Alpaca
06-04-2005, 15:39
I highly doubt they'll revise the skaven army at all...They've released an alternative list and theres another on the way, along with a load of new models. I think they'd revise the main list before this, if they were going to do it at all.

Still, with Eshin SoC and the Lustria Pestilens list, these alternatives may well tempt many people away from the SAD option, a definite good thing.

Brother Edwin
06-04-2005, 19:36
So what if skaven have SAD?

All armys can be overpowerd.

Gobbo army of doom, 12 power dice, 8 bolt throwers, then max out on NG with fanatics.

Empire get lods of War machines plus a TANK. Also can make a all cav army.

HE get all cav plus ridicluious amount of majic.

Chaos fast and nasty with all fast moveing cav chariots and daemons.

Beasts of chaos armt relly that overpowerd, but still kind of nasty if you can use them.

Brets horrable all cav with lance and ward save.

We all know about wood elves......

VC very competitive.

TK not that overpowerd, but still can be very nasty.

Lizardmen all skirmisher army of doom, nothing but skirmish and wizzards.

Chaos dwarf gunline......

Daemonic legion horrorbly nasty.

Slayers unbreakable and they guys with the spinning axes very nasty.

LSG we all know about.....

Ethereal Alpaca
06-04-2005, 20:03
Yes, but just because you CAN do it, doesn't mean you have to do it. I know other armies can be abused, having suffered horribly at the hands of the said NG army (3 lvl 2 shamans and 8 fanatics in a 1k game) only last week. Or indeed that you should do it (which you most certainly shouldn't).

Brother Edwin
07-04-2005, 09:32
Yes, but just because you CAN do it, doesn't mean you have to do it. I know other armies can be abused, having suffered horribly at the hands of the said NG army (3 lvl 2 shamans and 8 fanatics in a 1k game) only last week. Or indeed that you should do it (which you most certainly shouldn't).


Who are you to say I shouldant?

Hideous Loon
07-04-2005, 09:44
Why does Gutter Runners, the in fact elite Eshin troopers, fight alongside the cowards of Clan Eshin?

Geetarman
07-04-2005, 12:27
Brother Edwin - calm down, were not telling you what you can or can't do. And were not calling your army sad, all were saying is that if you do use this list you wont make many friends. If your only aim of the game is to win then it should be devastating and very effective. If however you want to try and make friends along the way during a game then this wont happen.

Were not telling you what to do, were just telling you the general opinion of this type of army so your aware, and I agree with your comment that most armies can make bearded armies, its just that skaven can do this very easily...

Loon- I am not quite sure what your post is saying or asking, its a little jumbled.

Gman

Major Defense
07-04-2005, 13:49
Somebody call a wa-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-ahmbulance!

Brother Edwin
07-04-2005, 14:21
Brother Edwin - calm down, were not telling you what you can or can't do. And were not calling your army sad, all were saying is that if you do use this list you wont make many friends. If your only aim of the game is to win then it should be devastating and very effective. If however you want to try and make friends along the way during a game then this wont happen.

Were not telling you what to do, were just telling you the general opinion of this type of army so your aware, and I agree with your comment that most armies can make bearded armies, its just that skaven can do this very easily...

Loon- I am not quite sure what your post is saying or asking, its a little jumbled.

Gman


I am useing it in the UKGT Heat one.

taer
07-04-2005, 14:31
I've never had problems fighting a SAD army before. One of my regular opponents fields one almost exclusively, and once you get used to it it isn't all that annoying. And is really funny when more Skaven get blown apart than your guys ;)

Stouty
07-04-2005, 14:59
There is an answer to sad armies,skirmishers and scouts, then they get ripped apart with not much fuss at all really. Hate them in tournys though

Brother Edwin
08-04-2005, 13:45
There is an answer to sad armies,skirmishers and scouts, then they get ripped apart with not much fuss at all really. Hate them in tournys though


I love skirmishers, easy to kill since I have no penaltys to hit them.

If you want to beat SAD you need to eather out shoot/magic them or have a calvery army.

mad dog
09-04-2005, 06:12
Oh its not quite the saddest - swap the seer for as many jezzails as you can get and you have the saddest.

Still fair do's this is pretty unimaginative !!!!!!!!!!!

Wez
28-06-2005, 13:32
Wow, great army!:)

It's very fluffy and looks like it will be great fun to play against.

The tactical skill required to win with such an army is great due to its randomness and you winning games will be a great achievement; pat yourself on your back if you do.

It uses a great variety of lord/hero/core/special/rare choices which provides some lovely balance, and in the true essence of a sporting Skaven player, you use lots of "unreliable" units to make for an interesting and fun game.

I wish you the best of luck with this army and hope you have many enjoyable games with it. *salutes*

-Wez

Reinnon
28-06-2005, 13:46
i'm not sure whether or not Wez is being serious or not...

but to me, it looks like the standard skaven army you see nowadays

Disposable Hero
28-06-2005, 18:30
I object!

I field a Skaven army too, with the flavour of the day, Plague Monks. And I have adapted the what I call the Portent-rule: one weapon team per 1000 points.

Oh, and the only other Skavenplayer I know has an Eshin list.

ChaplainDamiel
28-06-2005, 21:41
Just a teensy weensy bit overpowered, but that doesn't concern the serious gamer, who is in it for the fun, such as yourself. Yes, other armies can be cheesy, but yours is, and quite a few others aren't. Do you play for fun? Or does winning at all costs equal fun for you as well? The opponent having a good game is certainly not a concern, however, in a tournament, there will be armies like these, and it is your choice what army to field. By the way, there is a "Fantasy Army Lists Forum" for a reason.

Ganymede
29-06-2005, 01:08
Every single workhorse in your army can miscast, misfire, kill itself. Your build here suffers from chronic unreliability. Granted if your dice fall right, you will have quite a potent barrage on your hands, but what are the odds you will get lucky on all five games of a GT? I don't know why on earth you would jeopardise your chances of winning the tourney with so many unreliable troops.

I Think you should pull away one, maybe two warlock engineers and throw them into some troops/characters that can give you some power and dependability in the CC phase. That and your un-diverse list really opens it up to all sorts of character sniping. An army with long-range firepower will quite easily outclass your force and end up making you take a butt-load of panic tests on your general's unit. And once that dude is gone, him being the flywheel of this particular force, you are pretty much doomed.

As an added addenum, throw away 2-3 dispel scrolls. two to three scrolls plus 7 dispell dice should outclass most any magic phase, or at least make it a managable obstacle. You could save a bevvy of points that would have far better uses. Such a build you have here makes you incredibly weak to any force that can garner powerful magical resistance without wizards. A nicely managed khorne or tepoc army will have this force here running home to mommy.

As an added extra bit of advice... Unless you live in the UK, say away from their GTs. Everyone knows the best GTs are those in the American Indy circut.


Skaven 2,000pts

Please rate my skaven army.

CHARACTERS
Grey Seer. 2 dispel scrolls. Warpstone armlet. Eye of horned rat.
235
Engineer. All upgrades. 2 dispel scrolls.
135
Engineer. All upgrades. Storm daemon.
110
Engineer. All upgrades. Dispel scroll.
110

CORE
25 clanrats. Standard bearer. Musician. Ratling gun.
200
25 clanrats. Standard bearer. Musician. Ratling gun.
200
25 clanrats. Standard bearer. Musician. Ratling gun.
200
25 clanrats. Standard bearer. Musician. Ratling gun.
200
21 slaves
42
21 slaves
42
2 rat swarms
90

SPECIAL
3 tunneling gutter runners
45
3 tunneling gutter runners
45
3 tunneling gutter runners.
45


RARE
warp-lightning cannon
100
warp-lightning cannon
100

Total:1,999points

samw
29-06-2005, 01:22
I think you should add a screaming bell. Not only a nifty shooting attack and an extra two power dice, but it will provide your opponent with a handy blunt instrument to club you with. Gallantry like this will ensure that you are given a mark for sportsmanship, handy, because it will be your only one.

Lordmonkey
29-06-2005, 01:47
Wow, great army!:)

It's very fluffy and looks like it will be great fun to play against.

The tactical skill required to win with such an army is great due to its randomness and you winning games will be a great achievement; pat yourself on your back if you do.

It uses a great variety of lord/hero/core/special/rare choices which provides some lovely balance, and in the true essence of a sporting Skaven player, you use lots of "unreliable" units to make for an interesting and fun game.

I wish you the best of luck with this army and hope you have many enjoyable games with it. *salutes*

-Wez

I disagree for reasons that should be blatantly obvious, in the same way that dropping the pin and throwing the grenade should be blatantly obvious. It isn't skillful one iota, its moving forward, blasting whatever will present a challenge in hth with magic/shooting (unchallenged due to unit sheltering/overpowered magic) and overwhelming whatevers left with numbers. I must admit, better SAD armies have been devised, but this still follows the SAD "trend". And, IMO, it isn't fluffy at all... ratling guns were not even around until this edition. Where are the rat-ogres? Jezzails? Plague-censer bearers? Plague monks!?! If you call this "clan skyre" then why are there gutter runners?

Having said all this, for a GT situation, id do the same... I blame Alessio Cavatore and his broken army book... but then, the GT isn't the palce for fluff anyway :p


So what if skaven have SAD?

All armys can be overpowerd.

Gobbo army of doom, 12 power dice, 8 bolt throwers, then max out on NG with fanatics.
This is perhaps the only other army that i would consider in need of revising due to abuse. Not overpowered, but a bit abuseable. It had it's weaknesses, whereas the Skaven SAD does not.


Empire get lods of War machines plus a TANK. Also can make a all cav army. And this is supposed to scare me because...? Cavalry aren't that fantastic, and artillery less so when faced with flyers.


HE get all cav And? So do Chaos, V.C, D.E., O & G, Empire, etc...


plus ridicluious amount of majic. No they dont. Not more than anyone else, anyway.


Chaos fast and nasty with all fast moveing cav chariots and daemons. This can be countered. An all cavalry chaos army is both very few and very difficult to use. Full block regiments can be very hard to break with these guys.



Beasts of chaos armt relly that overpowerd, but still kind of nasty if you can use them. They are unpredicatable, and i agree, they aren't overpowered.


Brets horrable all cav with lance and ward save.Bretonnians aren't that scary. They're only horrible if you don't know how to fight them... if you do what they bret player wants you to do. Don't let him pick his fights and hes suddenly buggered - this is possible with all armies.


We all know about wood elves...... Not yet we dont ;)


VC very competitive.But not overpowered.


TK not that overpowerd, but still can be very nasty. Agreed


Lizardmen all skirmisher army of doom, nothing but skirmish and wizzards.Don't make me giggle. This army has a ld of 6 if led by a chief, 7 if he uses the sacred stegadon helm... deploy at the back table edge and let them come to you. A range of 12" is nothing when he has to move, and the counter charges with flyers can be hillarious. Also, if you have nothing that can react to skirmishing scouts then you need to revise your list ;)


Chaos dwarf gunline...... Is not overpowered


Daemonic legion horrorbly nasty. i thought this too, but the more you play against them the more you realise what such one-trick ponies they can be. I take it you refer to tzeentch?


Slayers unbreakable and they guys with the spinning axes very nasty. Shoot the hell out of them, or failing that, stay out of the way and use magic. Theyre too slow to pick their own fights - kill off the small weak units. You dont have to fight the heavy-hitters if you dont want to - this is what they call "tactics"


LSG we all know about.....Do we? Refresh my memory...

Ethereal Alpaca
29-06-2005, 06:40
I disagree for reasons that should be blatantly obvious, in the same way that dropping the pin and throwing the grenade should be blatantly obvious. It isn't skillful one iota, its moving forward, blasting whatever will present a challenge in hth with magic/shooting (unchallenged due to unit sheltering/overpowered magic) and overwhelming whatevers left with numbers. I must admit, better SAD armies have been devised, but this still follows the SAD "trend". And, IMO, it isn't fluffy at all... ratling guns were not even around until this edition. Where are the rat-ogres? Jezzails? Plague-censer bearers? Plague monks!?! If you call this "clan skyre" then why are there gutter runners?


Psst...I think Wez was being sarcastic. :p

Wez
29-06-2005, 09:00
Psst...I think Wez was being sarcastic. :p
I thought it was too blatantly obvious to require a "[/sarcasm]" tag. I was wrong.:p

The guy's a troll, he doesn't merit a serious responce. See how many GT armies he apparently has and how they're all incredibly unbalanced. Is he really gonna buy and paint that many armies? Or is he just posting lists to cause controversy?

-Wez

Lordmonkey
30-06-2005, 01:07
I thought it was too blatantly obvious to require a "[/sarcasm]" tag. I was wrong.:p

The guy's a troll, he doesn't merit a serious responce. See how many GT armies he apparently has and how they're all incredibly unbalanced. Is he really gonna buy and paint that many armies? Or is he just posting lists to cause controversy?

-Wez

ACK, sorry, my bad :p

Agreed though ;)

patataman
03-12-2005, 21:01
I donīt like your armi :mad:, you put a bad nme in all skaven player :mad: buuuuuuuu

Brother Edwin
03-12-2005, 21:17
I donīt like your armi :mad:, you put a bad nme in all skaven player :mad: buuuuuuuu


And what is the point in bringing up this thred nearly 6 months after it was last posted in?

And for those who want to know yes I did do pretty well in the GT. I qualifyd for the final in febuary where I am takeing VC.

Massacred dwarfs, brettonians, sylvanian famalys. Got a draw against Orc and goblins. Got beat by brettonians and the annual wood elf list.

Brother Edwin
03-12-2005, 21:32
BTW I think this thred should be locked now. My skaven list looks nothing like that, it is now far more better.

patataman
04-12-2005, 01:43
And what is the point in bringing up this thred nearly 6 months after it was last posted in?

And for those who want to know yes I did do pretty well in the GT. I qualifyd for the final in febuary where I am takeing VC.

Massacred dwarfs, brettonians, sylvanian famalys. Got a draw against Orc and goblins. Got beat by brettonians and the annual wood elf list.

duno. I anwerd a treath of a skaven list that I don like, I donīt se date, etc. xDCongrtulation for you victory xD

shadowprince
04-12-2005, 06:56
Lets just stop posting SAD armies altogether..

nurgle_boy
04-12-2005, 09:49
nice use of the 'bad thread' picture there...

you can close the thread edwin, by using the thread tools at the top of the page. that should stop any more random, useless, bitchy postings