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matticusmaximus
25-11-2006, 21:56
I've got a few questions regarding units coming into contact with other units during movement.

1) Lets say one of my units flees backwards however many inches, and its flee move takes it smack into one of my units. I pass my panic test, now what? Can the unit that got run into still move as normal and such?

2) On the other side of this scenario, what happens to chargers when an enemy flees? Do they count as a failed charge? Do they move their full charge distance? Do they get a pursue roll?

3) Finally, am I allowed to normally move my units through my other units? I can't seem to find anything in the rulebook that says I can't.

mattjgilbert
25-11-2006, 22:40
Rulebook not on me so no page numbers to back this up but...

1. IIRC the fleeing unit is placed the other side of your non-feeling unit and then the non-fleeing unit can move as normal

2. Yes it is a failed charge so read up on what happens to the chargers

3. You mean as part of normal movement? No I'm pretty sure you cannot. Your units have to move around each other so put them in the right place to start with!

Festus
26-11-2006, 10:02
Hi

matt is right on 1. and on 2. (If your target flees out of your reach (ie. charge move), you will lose impetus and only do a normal move towards the final position of the fleeing unit, unless there are EitW (Enemy in the Way).)

3rd: You can split a units move. You can move units only partially, then move a different unit through the newly created gap, and then you may move the first unit back.

Festus

Shaitan
27-11-2006, 08:09
3rd: You can split a units move. You can move units only partially, then move a different unit through the newly created gap, and then you may move the first unit back.

Is this an "officially" legal move now? We've always allowed this in our friendly games but I thought it wasn't allowed when you take the rules as written...

Festus
27-11-2006, 08:15
Hi

The rules don't tell you that a unit may only be moved once. They don't even hint at it or stipulate it in some other way. A unit can indeed split its move to allow for other things to happen.

Festus

Gorbad Ironclaw
27-11-2006, 08:46
On the other hand, the rules doesn't say you can do so either. I don't think it's really dealt with at all. Personally, I don't do it. But I don't think I'd be really bothered if you did it.

Falkman
27-11-2006, 09:12
I'm with Gorbad here.
The rules tells ut what we can do, not what we can't do.
If it is not listed as doable, then it isn't doable.

Shaitan
27-11-2006, 09:23
If it is not listed as doable, then it isn't doable.

This may become a very complex discussion from this point... but when the rules don't say that a unit may only be moved once, there is nothing that prohibits someone from splitting a unit's move.

There would be nothing illegal about moving one unit a bit, then moving an other unit, then moving the first unit again.
As long as they follow the normal rules for moving units (that is wheeling/turning/max movement rate etc.).

Falkman
27-11-2006, 09:25
The rules don't say that you CAN move a unit more than once either.

five01st
27-11-2006, 09:39
The rules tells ut what we can do, not what we can't do.
If it is not listed as doable, then it isn't doable.

The rulebook also says you CAN take the rules futher than what they have laid down. Their reason they give is that they are only human (always thought they were degenerite elves with what a job they did with 'Evey Metal) and even though they did a near perfect job they did NOT do a perfect one :rolleyes: . You should think about what would happen if the situation did exist, aka swirling battle surounding you and you are equiped with full battle gear (this is ussually why I stray away from 'Nids here, hard to tell what an ant would do in a possition like this). Just think logically, like my friend was stuck with thinking that if you have a power weapon only one attack can be made with it, all other attacks must be made with another CC weapon, obviously no one in thier right state of mind would try to hit a Chaos Lord with his power sword only to drop it and use thier laspistol in CC!!!

Falkman
27-11-2006, 09:45
So you think it's ok to invent rules because "perhaps the writers forgot to"?
Can I then invent my own magical lore (doesn't say I can't), my own army (doesn't say I can't) and then use them together (again, doesn't say I can't)?



like my friend was stuck with thinking that if you have a power weapon only one attack can be made with it, all other attacks must be made with another CC weapon, obviously no one in thier right state of mind would try to hit a Chaos Lord with his power sword only to drop it and use thier laspistol in CC!!!
That is covered in the 40k rules, they tell you that you make your attacks with your weapon of choice, so the rules tell you it is possible to get more than one attack with your power sword, nothing you have to come up with a "logical, special solution" for.

Shaitan
27-11-2006, 12:03
The rules don't say that you CAN move a unit more than once either.

The rules also don't say you can make a wheel of 2 inch and then turn your unit to the left. But is it allowed? Yes.
The rules also don't say that you can turn left, move one inch, turn back to the front. But is it allowed? Yes.
And so on......

There are some restrictions to the movement phase, one of them being that no unit can move more than their movement value (or twice that value when marching). Some other restrictions are about what forms of movement there are: marching/reforming/wheeling/turning etc.

Falkman
27-11-2006, 13:09
The rules also don't say you can make a wheel of 2 inch and then turn your unit to the left. But is it allowed? Yes.
It does.
BRB p.12: When it wheels, the entire unit counts as having moved as far as the outside model. Once the wheel is complete, you may use any movement that the unit has remaining.



The rules also don't say that you can turn left, move one inch, turn back to the front. But is it allowed? Yes.
Again, yes it does.
BRB p.13: The most common use of the turn manoeuvre is for a unit to turn 90 degrees or 180 degrees, move half their normal move and then turn back to its original position.

mattjgilbert
27-11-2006, 13:50
I think I'm with Falkman here - I've never seen it played that way and the rules do not say you can. If we stick to the new GW line of thinking of RAW, then that rule is not written.

Shaitan
27-11-2006, 14:15
This discussion is probably leading to nothing, except that GW has once again failed to give some clear rulings about an issue.

I will stick to the point that it is allowed to split a unit's movement.
Since I only play friendly games and we have always played it something like this, there is not much of a problem for me.

ZomboCom
27-11-2006, 15:46
Alessio recently said at the UKGT Heat 3 that nowhere in the book does it say that units cannot move through each other, or even end their movement on each other!

However, he went on to say that this is not intended to be legal.

Wings of Doom
27-11-2006, 17:51
Can I then invent my own magical lore (doesn't say I can't), my own army (doesn't say I can't) and then use them together (again, doesn't say I can't)?

Yes, you can.
But it would be opponents permission. :p

The rules tell you how far you can move in the movement phase- in that phase, say, a unit of empire swordsmen can move 8" (if they aren't march blocked). As I interpret it, they can move any of that distance as long as it is in the movement phase. That is there 'move'. If they move half that distance, then another unit moves, then they move again, they have done a completely legal action: I's all in the movement phase, and it's all legal movement. The movement phase isn't broken down into 'unit 1's movement, then unit 2's movement, etc'. The unit moved 8" in the movement phase. They may have physically moved twice, but as long as they have not gone over their 8" maximum, they have done nothing to contradict, or ignore the rules. They have followed them, RAW-
During their movement phase, units can move up to their maximum allowance in inches... Models do not have to move the full distance allowed, and can remain still if you prefer, but they cannot move further than their movement rate... Page 12 BRB.

mageith
27-11-2006, 19:56
Alessio recently said at the UKGT Heat 3 that nowhere in the book does it say that units cannot move through each other, or even end their movement on each other!

However, he went on to say that this is not intended to be legal.

Which is really to say, he just never thought about it before. :)

I'm with the move stop and move crowd. Actually never did it but was involved in another discussion on a different forum. Wings of Doom explains it quite will, IMO.

The difference between this and the Alessio questions is that there's no rules mechanism to have units in the same spot on top of each other though one could pile them up on dicey towers like I sometimes do when units are partially on hills.

As to moving through units, that is another way to accomplish the start-stop-start question at hand and it must be legal. Alessio said so!;)

I hate rules that allow nonsensical things (like units on top of one another) but I hate more rules that are interpreted to stop perfectly reasonable things like units moving, stopping to let another unit pass and then moving again.

Rune of Death
27-11-2006, 23:29
Yes, you can.
But it would be opponents permission. :p

The rules tell you how far you can move in the movement phase- in that phase, say, a unit of empire swordsmen can move 8" (if they aren't march blocked). As I interpret it, they can move any of that distance as long as it is in the movement phase. That is there 'move'. If they move half that distance, then another unit moves, then they move again, they have done a completely legal action: I's all in the movement phase, and it's all legal movement. The movement phase isn't broken down into 'unit 1's movement, then unit 2's movement, etc'. The unit moved 8" in the movement phase. They may have physically moved twice, but as long as they have not gone over their 8" maximum, they have done nothing to contradict, or ignore the rules. They have followed them, RAW- Page 12 BRB.

that's just in the remaining moves part of the movemant phase....right?
not while charging. chargers are resolved one at a time, in the order that they were declared.