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Morgrin
27-11-2006, 02:09
...all enemies able to charge the bearer ... fail LD test ... must charge...

Situation: A unit all the way across the table has no other impediments to declaring a charge beyond the distance (ie, obviously a failed charge because of the distance if they try).

My opinion is that they must test like any other unit (and charge if they fail).

Any other opinions or rulings?

Thanks ;)

mageith
27-11-2006, 03:41
Situation: A unit all the way across the table has no other impediments to declaring a charge beyond the distance (ie, obviously a failed charge because of the distance if they try).

My opinion is that they must test like any other unit (and charge if they fail).

Any other opinions or rulings?

Thanks ;)
charge and declare charge are different things.

The item doesn't exactly say when the actual charge is to take place. The item is used as the "beginning of any enemy turn". I think literally then measurements are taken and those in range and failed their Ld test would charge. This would occur before the declare phase, maybe even before the animosity and other early stuff.

Griefbringer
27-11-2006, 09:19
You could treat the "able to charge" condition similarly to what is done with frenzied units - that would sound like the most practical way to me.

Festus
27-11-2006, 09:38
Hi

Agreed: *able to charge* is just that: able to charge, as in *ability*: If I can charge you, I have to. If I can just declare a charge, but won't make it, I am not able to charge, thus cannot be forced to.

Festus

Morgrin
27-11-2006, 11:36
Ok, sounds reasonable.

mageith
27-11-2006, 14:58
You could treat the "able to charge" condition similarly to what is done with frenzied units - that would sound like the most practical way to me.
You could. But is that what it says? I think you are ignoring some of the words and adding some others.

"Can be used at the beginning of any enemy turn. When used, all enemies able to charge the bearer of this item must take a Leadership test. If they fail, they must charge the bearer (charge reactions, Psychology tests etc. are taken as normal.) (WE 64)

I think it's specifically NOT like frenzy. At least not like 6th edition frenzy when the rule was written. If it were 6th edition frenzy, the targeted model could declare a charge on another target and override it. (The current rules for frenzy may be a little different.)

I think the spell effects definitely takes place before frenzy. I'd say the spell takes effect even before normal declaring. The effects of the item take place "when the item is used". That's what the words say to me. It item is meant to mess up the charging phase, not work along with it.

ZomboCom
27-11-2006, 16:50
I think it's specifically NOT like frenzy. At least not like 6th edition frenzy when the rule was written. If it were 6th edition frenzy, the targeted model could declare a charge on another target and override it. (The current rules for frenzy may be a little different.)


Yes, that was the case in 6th, but in 7th frenzied units can never declare a charge, they can only charge the closest enemy if found to be in range.

On the case in point, it seems pretty obvious to me that you must measure to see if units are in range to charge the unit before other charges are declared, so that there is no get out clause.

And obviously they won't have to declare a charge if they are not in range to charge.

Festus
27-11-2006, 18:11
Hi

Yes, that was the case in 6th, but in 7th frenzied units can never declare a charge, they can only charge the closest enemy if found to be in range.
Only partially true: The controlling player may decide who to charge if several targets are in range. It doesn't have to be the closest. cf BRB, p.52

Festus

gortexgunnerson
30-11-2006, 18:04
I think what the poster is trying to ask is that units far away have to declare a charge and hence move if they fail a Ld test.

e.g. Use the horn when playing empire gunline, ld check for all handgunners which can see the target and therefore could declare a charge. If they have to move advantage would be gained as no shots etc.

This has been answered above in the difference between declaring a charge and charging. Though they may declare a charge they cannot charge the bearer. Hence are not included under units which can charge the bearer.

Hopefully that answer the question I think your asking, if I have the interpretation wrong my apoligises

intellectawe
30-11-2006, 18:15
Any unit is able to charge form any distance. There is no restriction for charging. You just know its going to be a failed charge. A failed charge is nothing more than being forced to move forward at your movement rate anyway.

A unit which can charge a unit 24" away is still able to charge, it will just be a failed charge.

Nice item :)


....

Actually, I retract what I said. After reading the previous posts a few more times, I am also thinking that "charge" and "declaring a charge" are two different things.

I say the item only affects units able to charge into the unit bearing the item. meaning, has to be within charge range.